Massive Price Drop!

[The Enigma]

Originally Posted by Bilge_Rat

I would have no problem forking over another $50 for SH5:Hardcore edition.

Me neither, but there should also be room to discuss what method of copy protection should be implemented in such version.

[Coldcall]

Originally Posted by Bilge_Rat

Another option would be to get in bed with the devil and make a deal with Ubisoft. SH5 has everything we need to create a ultra-realistic subsim and it is always easier to build on existing code than start from scratch.

Say a new company employing talented modders enters into a joint venture with Ubi to turn SH5 into a more hardcore sim and sell it as a new product, with profits to be split.

That approach has been successful in the past with, for example, "Falcon 4: Allied Force" and "War in the Pacific: Admiral's edition". In both cases, modders who had been working on the games for free approached the software owner and worked out a deal.

I would have no problem forking over another $50 for SH5:Hardcore edition.

Thats defintiely an option for SH5, and i too would have no probs forking over full retail for an SH5 conversion.

[Bilge_Rat]

Originally Posted by The Enigma

Me neither, but there should also be room to discuss what method of copy protection should be implemented in such version.

DRM free, of course..

[609_Avatar]

Originally Posted by TDK1044

If the modders here and elsewhere refused to touch SH5 at all, what kind of game would we have? Another buggy mess that's barely playable and not even accessible a lot of the time.

Just to be fair here, and I don't even own the game (my brother-in-law does and has played the past few days though and I've read tons of stuff here), but describing it as a "buggy mess that's barely playable" is going a bit too far. Yes, there are plenty of bugs, some won't even be noticed by newbies (my brother-in-law said it was really cool when he was leaving port and saw a few damaged ships in harbor trying to maneuver which he attributed to an allied air attack, until I told him it was bad AI that caused them to crash into the docks...) but it is hardly "barely playable" as many people are playing it daily for hours without crashes, etc. You might be more "demanding" than others it terms of what you call acceptable, and I'm probably close to that in some regards, but it's playable, maybe just not enjoyable because of spotting bugs, like the ships crashing in port for example. Without modding it is a lot worse, like you state, but is still playable, just frustrating for many. I know, semantics and all, but people will take you at your word and that's just not literally true what you stated from all that I've heard. I do whole heartedly agree that without modders this series would probably already be dead with SHIV.

[The General]

Originally Posted by 609_Avatar

my brother-in-law said it was really cool when he was leaving port and saw a few damaged ships in harbor trying to maneuver which he attributed to an allied air attack, until I told him it was bad AI that caused them to crash into the docks...)

Aww, your Brother-in-law was quite happy, blissfully unaware.

I enjoyed reading your post. The sad truth is that some people on this site get more enjoyment from criticizing a game they haven't even played, or the people that do play the game, than contributing constructively to this website or to the FUTURE of the series (Mentioning no names: ). Put me im the Brig if you want! All I'm doing is defending SH5 from those who haven't played it and don't know what they're talking about anyway!

[thyro]

Originally Posted by The General

All I'm doing is defending SH5 from those who haven't played it and don't know what they're talking about anyway!

I'll submit your name to Pope to make a saint of you. The crusades are no more but you never know if it won't start tomorrow. Beside is good to have defenders whatever are the causes

[The General]

Originally Posted by 609_Avatar

my brother-in-law said it was really cool when he was leaving port and saw a few damaged ships in harbor trying to maneuver which he attributed to an allied air attack, until I told him it was bad AI that caused them to crash into the docks...)

Aww, your Brother-in-law was quite happy, blissfully unaware.

I enjoyed reading your post. The sad truth is that some people on this site get more enjoyment from criticizing a game they haven't even played, or the people that do play the game, than contributing constructively to this website or to the FUTURE of the series (Mentioning no names: Carotio & Nordmann . Put me im the Brig if you want! All I'm doing is defending SH5 from those who haven't played it and don't know what they're talking about anyway!

[thyro]

Originally Posted by Coldcall

Thats defintiely an option for SH5, and i too would have no probs forking over full retail for an SH5 conversion.

Why would a modder waste time on SH5 as it stands at moment, bugged with not useful interface mechanics and half game. For tiny/small changes ok but for considerable complex mods, players will have to endure months if not years untill SH5 gets completed (if it gets completed).


writing a complex mod such as adding missing historical features to SH5 atm would be a waste of time... isn't matter of consider or not but the fact is this is half a game whatever you like it or not.

[Commie]

Originally Posted by The General

Aww, your Brother-in-law was quite happy, blissfully unaware.

I enjoyed reading your post. The sad truth is that some people on this site get more enjoyment from criticizing a game they haven't even played, or the people that do play the game, than contributing constructively to this website or to the FUTURE of the series (Mentioning no names: . Put me im the Brig if you want! All I'm doing is defending SH5 from those who haven't played it and don't know what they're talking about anyway!

Why the brig? It's funny to think that despite all you slavish devotion to UBI and the GROFAZ of games that is SH5, the game and you will be treated with contempt by UBI who will decide that instead of a patch they'll just make you pay for an expansion which will fix a couple of things and add content that will be useless anyway. This is what happened with Empire Total War, and the sad thing is that there are enough fanatics like yourself that will lap up these things thus making the publisher feel vindicated in their strategy.

[Bilge_Rat]

Originally Posted by thyro

Why wound a modder waste time on SH5 as it stands at moment, bugged with not useful interface mechanics and half game.

That is not really accurate. All the basics of the game are there and they pretty much all work. There are a number of bugs: morale bug in campaign, stadimeter bug, missing commands, AI script issues which are well known. Hopefully these will be fixed in a patch. Some others can be adressed by modders. Some may call me biased (which would not be the first time) but I would say the game is 95% finished. It is perfectly playable as is, but these bugs make it less enjoyable to true subsimmers.

Then there are the larger issues of realism of the sub, crew, weapons, enemy AI, campaign which existed in SH3/4 as well. This is more an issue of tweaking by the modders, many of which are already hard at work. Thankfully the Devs have made SH5 much more moddable so this is an easier task.

[janh]

Originally Posted by The General

AThe sad truth is that some people on this site get more enjoyment from criticizing a game they haven't even played, or the people that do play the game, than contributing constructively to this website or to the FUTURE of the series (Mentioning no names: ).

I agree that it is time for the people to listen more than bark. But if my personal impression during the past roughly 7-10 days is right, they are not complaining anymore. It has become mostly owners of SHV that post threads like "...hate that ****, don't play it anymore", or "go back to SHIII now, good bye" (or along these lines). Correct me if my impression is wrong, but the people denting it right now with (re)new(ed) arguments are mainly actual players.

[Bilge_Rat]

Originally Posted by janh

I agree that it is time for the people to listen more than bark. But if my personal impression during the past roughly 7-10 days is right, they are not complaining anymore. It has become mostly owners of SHV that post threads like "...hate that ****, don't play it anymore", or "go back to SHIII now, good bye" (or along these lines). Correct me if my impression is wrong, but the people denting it right now with (re)new(ed) arguments are mainly actual players.

I would not say that. I would say there are still extremists on both sides, as you can see just in this thread (and I have also sometimes been guilty of that).

But on the whole I think we can see the forum getting slowly back to normal, where we will be able to calmly discuss the game and its issues, without sparks flying all the time...

Originally Posted by Coldcall

so why's everyone scared of going independent? I did so years ago, walked out of my job and started my own business.

Most of you are ignoring the elephant in the room in this matter. Why they will not go independent? One of the main reasons is that because they are not so good you think they are. It's very convenient for them to hide behind some Ubi marketing decision. You have the tendency to see them as "saints", but they are full of "sins". Alexandru Gris, the head project responsible, is not even with its feet down on Earth, he is very happy of the final product as result of its team work, he told me that, and if somebody think that I am lying, I can prove that. He told everybody, to his friends, to his relative, what a good project he finished.
Dan (elanaiba), on the otherside, have a little more decency than Alexandru, but he is not a saint either.
So please, try to stop separate those two entities, Ubi suits and Ubi devs, they belong to the same mother company, and the responsibility of success and failure belongs to all of them. No Ubi suit is responsible for the major bugs in the game, like morale system and so on, arcadish as it is.

Anyway, as I've told earlier today, some of you fully deserve SH5. Understand what you want from that conclusion of mine.

[Coldcall]

Originally Posted by Gunnodayak

Most of you are ignoring the elephant in the room in this matter. Why they will not go independent? One of the main reasons is that because they are not so good you think they are. It's very convenient for them to hide behind some Ubi marketing decision. You have the tendency to see them as "saints", but they are full of "sins". Alexandru Gris, the head project responsible, is not even with its feet down on Earth, he is very happy of the final product as result of its team work, he told me that, and if somebody think that I am lying, I can prove that. He told everybody, to his friends, to his relative, what a good project he finished.
Dan (elanaiba), on the otherside, have a little more decency than Alexandru, but he is not a saint either.
So please, try to stop separate those two entities, Ubi suits and Ubi devs, they belong to the same mother company, and the responsibility of success and failure belongs to all of them. No Ubi suit is responsible for the major bugs in the game, like morale system and so on, arcadish as it is.

Anyway, as I've told earlier today, some of you fully deserve SH5. Understand what you want from that conclusion of mine.

No I dont see them as saints but i do think that if you wanted to create a new subsim from scratch those Romanian guys are a good bet to do it.

Also its far easier to get funding for a software project if you can show what was done before, and that this would be the same crew doing the new game.

[janh]

Originally Posted by Bilge_Rat

That is not really accurate. All the basics of the game are there and they pretty much all work. There are a number of bugs: morale bug in campaign, stadimeter bug, missing commands, AI script issues which are well known. Hopefully these will be fixed in a patch. Some others can be adressed by modders. Some may call me biased (which would not be the first time) but I would say the game is 95% finished. It is perfectly playable as is, but these bugs make it less enjoyable to true subsimmers.

Then there are the larger issues of realism of the sub, crew, weapons, enemy AI, campaign which existed in SH3/4 as well. This is more an issue of tweaking by the modders, many of which are already hard at work. Thankfully the Devs have made SH5 much more moddable so this is an easier task.

Question since you seem to know: Is the basic functionality present that will allow to script a 43-45 extension of the campaign with all the necessary technology and units needed for the late time frame, i.e. acoustic torpedoes, foxers, hedgehogs, etc?