The long slow endl of the American era

[Hylander_1314]

I think the good old US of A should take this approach myself.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/williams.asp

[Frame57]

Originally Posted by Konovalov

Yes, we all sit around the dinner table at night discussing such that you mentioned above while ignoring and dishonoring our nations laws in our daily lives. What a load of crud you speak.

You are the frog that will boil because you do not know that the water is slowly rising. Genius! We had this problem with illegals here and now it is a huge problem economically to where emergency rooms have to close because they do not pay their bills. So long as comfort zone has not yet been tampered with you deny the impending obvious, then will cry out when it hits the fan. Because I have my finger on the pulse of what is going on, to have a few naysayers who are ignorant means nothing to me. History will state the facts but all too often that is too late for those who want to keep their Countries culture and borders and language intact.

[Frame57]

Originally Posted by Mikhayl

Matter of fact, I lived my first 16 years in what the medias call "ghetto" in the suburbs of Paris. I went at school with people of all origins, black Africans, Arabs from north africa, mostly Algeria and Morocco, Turks, Vietnamese and of course Frenchs. Every family living there wanted to move the hell out, not because of some sort of "muslim threat" but because it was a sh!t place to live in, and yeah there was violence and poverty. Is that because of islam or because these suburbs and the people living there are considered the butt of the country ? My parents had a good job so after 16 years they could afford to move elsewhere, but most people living in these ugly suburbs built in the 60's to "park" foreign workers just can't afford to move.

Then I lived for four years with my father in a ~90% muslim part of Paris, and there was indeed a mosque at the corner of the street. There was far more muslims here than in my old suburb, but they had an overall far better quality of life, and there was no violence nor will to "get the hell out". My father still happily lives there 6 months a year. Myself I never had the slightest problem while living there, on the contrary. The funniest part is that a right wing paper once made up an article on that mosque : http://www.lepoint.fr/actualites-mon...ad/924/0/22900
Man, I lived 50 metres from that mosque, each friday at 2pm there was indeed some odd 50 guys praying outside in the middle of the street. What the article doesn't say is that they did so because the mosque is the only mosque in that area and is way too small. Besides that street is a tiny side street, there's no trafic there, these people simple didn't bother anyone. The article is full of fearmongering lies that the average old fashioned French racist loves so much. Another article spoke of the street as "islamist territory". I was shocked when I red it. So who's biased again ?

"Islamism" as they say, like the racist right and other extremist ideologies, tends to rise in areas where poverty is also on the rise or where the country gave up, like these days in our overpopulated prisons.

edit : if you're interested and have google earth, go to " 48°52'4.51"N - 2°22'37.88"E", there's a pic of the mosque. Obviously the cute teen girls walking by without hijab whatsoever have been photoshoped afterwards
And if you move some 300m north west, you'll find a church (way bigger than the mosque). That's France as I like it.

You seem to won over by them. Be a good chap and give them your paycheck. Perhaps the next time I dine at a french resteruant, I will be served bean curd on pita bread...

[SteamWake]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Quite long, but very realistically summerizing the mood as I believe I perceive it from media all around:

No need to say any more.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by SteamWake

No need to say any more.

Ouch, spank me

[mrbeast]

Originally Posted by Frame57

I am not sure how and why many european countries are allowing the influx of muslims. France, England and the Balkans are having problems with this. So, as went Kosovo, so will other countries experience this in the future and I think that we be a problem for them. Italy is taking great pains to not allow muslims into their country and this is obviously due to the Roman Catholics. Think about for a moment of the last import you bought that was made in England? France? etc... there is virtually no exports from the EU. Almost everything I buy has a China tag on it. They are the wave of the future economically and axiomatically militarily as well. So I agree with you but I will give it 20 years tops.

Maybe you didn't see this:

Market size. Imports are a good indicator of the size of a national market as well as the flows of merchandises servicing the needs of an economy. The United States, Germany, China and Japan are the world's largest importers and consequently the world's largest economies. Germany has recently become the world’s largest exporter, supplementing the traditional position held by United States over the last 50 years. The integration of China to the global economy has been accompanied by a growing level of participation to trade both in absolute and relative terms, improving the rank of China from the 7th largest exporter in 2000 and to the 3rd largest in 2005. China has recently surpassed Japan both in the total value of its imports and exports.
Trade imbalances. Some countries, notably the United States and the United Kingdom, have significant trade deficits which are reflected in their balance of payments.....

http://people.hofstra.edu/geotrans/e...ngtraders.html

The EU exports nothing does it?

[Kipparikalle]

This shall begin the new era

A new era... for FINLAND!

We will become the next superpower of the Earth!

[Dowly]

Originally Posted by Kipparikalle

This shall begin the new era

A new era... for FINLAND!

We will become the next superpower of the Earth!

A superpower, who has most of it's ppl on the brink of alcoholism? That doesnt sound very good. :rotfl:

[Foxtrot]

Originally Posted by Kipparikalle

This shall begin the new era

A new era... for FINLAND!

We will become the next superpower of the Earth!

Are you drinking in broad daylight?
Shall I tell Sweds about your "plans"?

[Hitman]

All Empires rise, then decline and finally dissapear, history teaches that pretty well.

The thing is, Empires last every day less....

Agypt 3000 years, Rome nearly 1000 years, Spain 500 years, Britain 300 years and now the USA ... ? :hmm:

But sure as hell, their empire will end, meaning their hegemony will dissapear -not of course their state & nation-

Who will be next?

My guess is that future empires will be those with huge energy resources AND weapons to defend them. Saudi Arabia does not fall into that category -no weapons- and China also doesn't -no resources-

Is it the time again for Russia?

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Hitman

All Empires rise, then decline and finally dissapear, history teaches that pretty well.

The thing is, Empires last every day less....

Agypt 3000 years, Rome nearly 1000 years, Spain 500 years, Britain 300 years and now the USA ... ? :hmm:

But sure as hell, their empire will end, meaning their hegemony will dissapear -not of course their state & nation-

Who will be next?

My guess is that future empires will be those with huge energy resources AND weapons to defend them. Saudi Arabia does not fall into that category -no weapons- and China also doesn't -no resources-

Is it the time again for Russia?

Both china and Saudi arabia are buying themsleves into wetsern industries and banks on large scale, to compensate for their strategic deficits. and both are extremely successful with doing so. to think the Saudis will have gone when their oil has come to an end, would be a very huge mistake. they will take their income directly from our pockets, and will not even need to ask. the Netherlands also had no huge armies and armadas, but nevertheless became a "trader empire" as well, and where extremely powerful for some time. so wheere the Portuguese and Spanish as well, who also in theory lacked the numerical power to rasie the huge emoires that they nevertheless cintrolled and exploited. total occupation of all territory is not necessary. control of key locations works well enough, and controlling patterns of traffic, trade and finances. And it could beat military power.

[Hitman]

Yes I agree with that but only as long as the legal order is respected. If international and state laws are no longer respected, then it's the strongest who wins. I'm thinking about examples like Bolivia or Venezuela nationalizing their resources: No matter how many legal rights foreign companies had there, they were wiped away with a legal modification.

China and specially Arabia will only be able to control their aquired finantial control position as long as the controlled states want to follow the rules. Yet if they brake them, things may vary a lot and only the real exercise of force through military action can prevail.

[DeepIron]

Frankly, if we "declined" into "just another bunch of people living on the planet" status, I'd welcome it. Let some other nation worry about things for awhile and pay attention to problems at home for a change... Yes, yes... a simplistic point of view in an otherwise complex and screwed up world i know...

[Frame57]

America was and never will be an "empire". We do not own nor occupy the countries we battled in WW2. We have been allies with great Britain even though sought Independance from them. After WWI we went through the great depression to only arise stronger than before. This is but a bump in the road and will not stymy the strength of this great nation.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Frame57

America was and never will be an "empire". We do not own nor occupy the countries we battled in WW2. We have been allies with great Britain even though sought Independance from them. After WWI we went through the great depression to only arise stronger than before. This is but a bump in the road and will not stymy the strength of this great nation.

Sorry, but your use of the term empire seem to be a very narrow one, but the term as it is used to describe various constellations in history, beyond doubt qualifies america for being an empire. Note that the term includes dominat positions of control in the world of trade, traffic, finance, cultural dominance, legal values. An empire is not only about invading places, occupy territories with armies, and shooting at things that wear the wrong colours. An empire does not limit itself to the meaning and form of the european colonialism. And empires also only survived for longer times if they included these components - military force alone only gave them a certain time - and not more.

there are also many parallels between America and various empires, namely rome, regarding the way in which their econmies developed, changed and collapsed, and how they organised the flow of goods and items inside the empire according to the desired centralisation of traffic directions of goods and items, the systems of traffic, and flow patterns of wealth and goods made the city of rome, and the italian peninsula, their goal. the parallels here to america, are stunning, and educating.

If I label the US an empire, I do not necessarily always mean it as an offense, or a brandmarking. I just use a wider historial understanding of the term.

It's a pity that this book has not been translated, it is a top prime lecture on the term and it's historic realities:

http://www.amazon.de/Imperien-Logik-...2981745&sr=8-2