Very Interesting Visibility Results

MarkShot · 01-20-08, 08:12 PM

I have definitely confirmed that the AI has peripheral vision issue.

I got a sound contact on a lone merchant. So, I set off in its direction.

I come to the bridge to have a look for myself. There it is a fairly large merchant about 6km 70 degrees starboard. Now, the watch crew is reporting nothing. I immediately order a turn towards the merchant. As soon as the front of the sub comes around, "Ship spotted!".

Here is the thing I don't get. Why angle of the bow have any relevance to the watch crew? Clearly there is must be a technical reason why it is so modeled, but I cannot possibly thing of one.

Of course, in real life, when you have single pair of eyes, you will in most cases spot better forwards. But there are five on the bridge. They each should be scanning their own sector.

Why hasn't anyone taught the crew in SH3 how to stand a watch?

Thanks.

The image shows exactly the behavior which I am describing.

Brag · 01-20-08, 08:37 PM

In RL, at night you don't see a thing in front of you, only your peripheral vision works.

MarkShot · 01-20-08, 08:43 PM

This is in the day time. No disrespect, but that doesn't really explain these observations.

MarkShot · 01-21-08, 09:33 AM

(a) No one is aware of angles affecting AI spotting? {possible being in systems I often find things which others miss}

(b) No one really cares?

(c) I have failed to explain it clearly?

(d) No one has anything relevant to add?

Sorry, I find so many techniques under discussions here: TDC settings, RPMs, depths, ... It seems odd that something as significant of how the AI sees the world would be of no interest to anyone.

Hilis Hatki · 01-21-08, 09:52 AM

Brag: "In RL, at night you don't see a thing in front of you, only your peripheral vision works."

MarkShot: "This is in the day time. No disrespect, but that doesn't really explain these observations."

I remember a post, here or at ubi with pics even, within the first month of sh3's release back in 05 that ... when the player look straight at a ship at night he could not see it yet as he panned the view to the side it become more visible on the screen. This person was saying how unrealistic this was. Dont know if it wae explained to him

. Like when star gazing.

A ship on a constant bearing from the sub should be harder to spot than a ship on a changing bearing.

No smoke??
Is the sim modeled to spot smoke and/or ship differently.

"peripheral vision affect modeled for AI spotting" maybe its coded too much to the direction of the boat instead of to the crew.

OR maybe

The officer of the watch has the front viewing sector. Does where a "watch qualified" crew member is on the deck make a difference, in sim? in your testing?

Is there more eyes looking forward than to the sides?

MarkShot · 01-21-08, 09:57 AM

Interesting point about the bearing rate. However, the results seem to show that bow on low bearing rate is easier for the AI to spot, than acute bow high bearing rate. ???

MarkShot · 01-21-08, 10:07 AM

I was using a mod with GWX 1.03 which fixes sonar range that you always get max performance.

However, I thought Kpt. Lehmann said nothing was changed sensor-wise between 1.03 and 2.00.

Hilis Hatki · 01-21-08, 01:27 PM

This thread made me watch the watchers

on a VIIc

..| ....|
-W- ..c-
..|

..|
.-c

-c ...c-
.|.....|

The watch officer looks 360.
All others have a 90 fov.

There seems to be a small dead zone on 90 starboard.
The 360 viewer should switch place with the middle watch?

bigboywooly · 01-21-08, 02:00 PM

Am not sure the AI " sees " smoke
Maybe its wakes
Maybe its sound

Try running with the noise meter on
Not exactly a reliable tool but

If you run surfaced parallel to a convoy at a distance of your choice - around 3\4 or 5km
Now run flank and the meter turns red indicating you have a high CHANCE of being detected
Drop speed to slow and the meter will turn green indicating little or no chance of being detected
Now the visual distance hasnt changed so why less chance of the AI spotting you ?
Either the wakes OR the sound get factored into the game or both

Your results are interesting
Carry on

01-20-08, 08:12 PM	#1
MarkShot Ace of the Deep Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,134 Downloads: 93 Uploads: 0	I have definitely confirmed that the AI has peripheral vision issue. I got a sound contact on a lone merchant. So, I set off in its direction. I come to the bridge to have a look for myself. There it is a fairly large merchant about 6km 70 degrees starboard. Now, the watch crew is reporting nothing. I immediately order a turn towards the merchant. As soon as the front of the sub comes around, "Ship spotted!". Here is the thing I don't get. Why angle of the bow have any relevance to the watch crew? Clearly there is must be a technical reason why it is so modeled, but I cannot possibly thing of one. Of course, in real life, when you have single pair of eyes, you will in most cases spot better forwards. But there are five on the bridge. They each should be scanning their own sector. Why hasn't anyone taught the crew in SH3 how to stand a watch? Thanks. The image shows exactly the behavior which I am describing. __________________ War games, not wars! --- Only a small few profit from war (that should not stand)!

01-20-08, 08:37 PM	#2
Brag Navy Seal Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Docked on a Russian pond Posts: 7,072 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	In RL, at night you don't see a thing in front of you, only your peripheral vision works. __________________ Espionage, adventure, suspense, are just a click away Click here to look inside Brag's book: Amazon.com: Kingmaker: Alexey Braguine: Books Order Kingmaker here: http://www.subsim.com/store.html For Tactics visit:http://www.freewebs.com/kielman/

01-20-08, 08:43 PM	#3
MarkShot Ace of the Deep Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,134 Downloads: 93 Uploads: 0	This is in the day time. No disrespect, but that doesn't really explain these observations. __________________ War games, not wars! --- Only a small few profit from war (that should not stand)!

01-21-08, 09:33 AM	#4
MarkShot Ace of the Deep Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,134 Downloads: 93 Uploads: 0	(a) No one is aware of angles affecting AI spotting? {possible being in systems I often find things which others miss} (b) No one really cares? (c) I have failed to explain it clearly? (d) No one has anything relevant to add? Sorry, I find so many techniques under discussions here: TDC settings, RPMs, depths, ... It seems odd that something as significant of how the AI sees the world would be of no interest to anyone. __________________ War games, not wars! --- Only a small few profit from war (that should not stand)!

01-21-08, 09:52 AM	#5
Hilis Hatki Bosun Join Date: May 2006 Location: Tennessee, Earth Posts: 62 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Brag: "In RL, at night you don't see a thing in front of you, only your peripheral vision works." MarkShot: "This is in the day time. No disrespect, but that doesn't really explain these observations." I remember a post, here or at ubi with pics even, within the first month of sh3's release back in 05 that ... when the player look straight at a ship at night he could not see it yet as he panned the view to the side it become more visible on the screen. This person was saying how unrealistic this was. Dont know if it wae explained to him . Like when star gazing. A ship on a constant bearing from the sub should be harder to spot than a ship on a changing bearing. No smoke?? Is the sim modeled to spot smoke and/or ship differently. "peripheral vision affect modeled for AI spotting" maybe its coded too much to the direction of the boat instead of to the crew. OR maybe The officer of the watch has the front viewing sector. Does where a "watch qualified" crew member is on the deck make a difference, in sim? in your testing? Is there more eyes looking forward than to the sides? __________________

01-21-08, 09:57 AM	#6
MarkShot Ace of the Deep Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,134 Downloads: 93 Uploads: 0	Interesting point about the bearing rate. However, the results seem to show that bow on low bearing rate is easier for the AI to spot, than acute bow high bearing rate. ??? __________________ War games, not wars! --- Only a small few profit from war (that should not stand)!

01-21-08, 10:07 AM	#7
MarkShot Ace of the Deep Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,134 Downloads: 93 Uploads: 0	I was using a mod with GWX 1.03 which fixes sonar range that you always get max performance. However, I thought Kpt. Lehmann said nothing was changed sensor-wise between 1.03 and 2.00. __________________ War games, not wars! --- Only a small few profit from war (that should not stand)!

01-21-08, 01:27 PM	#8
Hilis Hatki Bosun Join Date: May 2006 Location: Tennessee, Earth Posts: 62 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	This thread made me watch the watchers on a VIIc ..\| ....\| -W- ..c- ..\| ..\| .-c -c ...c- .\|.....\| The watch officer looks 360. All others have a 90 fov. There seems to be a small dead zone on 90 starboard. The 360 viewer should switch place with the middle watch? __________________

01-21-08, 02:00 PM	#9
bigboywooly Rear Admiral Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Swindon, England Posts: 10,151 Downloads: 35 Uploads: 0	Am not sure the AI " sees " smoke Maybe its wakes Maybe its sound Try running with the noise meter on Not exactly a reliable tool but If you run surfaced parallel to a convoy at a distance of your choice - around 3\4 or 5km Now run flank and the meter turns red indicating you have a high CHANCE of being detected Drop speed to slow and the meter will turn green indicating little or no chance of being detected Now the visual distance hasnt changed so why less chance of the AI spotting you ? Either the wakes OR the sound get factored into the game or both Your results are interesting Carry on __________________ My mediafire page http://www.mediafire.com/?11eoq19bq9r41