Very Interesting Visibility Results
 

This was inspired by another thread discussing tracking in bad weather.

* Back Ground *

Testing done with SH3/GWX 1.03 and 16km option.

I set up a custom mission with stationary ships: my sub and tankers about ever 500km diagonally.

In Mission Editor, you can vary:

- Time
- Wind Speed
- Precipitation
- Clouds
- Fog

* Findings *

Note: Crew spotting is defined as meaning the game engine plots contacts on the nav map and calls out "ship spotted".

(1) During daytime, the maximum range which your watch crew is able to spot ships is not impacted by wind, rain, clouds, and fog. Basically, the crew is able to see to about 6km.

(2) During daytime, the angle off your bow that the crew is able to spot ships is quite dependent on wind, rain, clouds, and fog. So, distance is not impacted, but the angle off the center line of the keel is very much impacted. In very clear conditions, the crew spots contacts easily 60 degrees off center. In very poor conditions, the crew has trouble with anything beyond 10 degrees off center.

(3) In daytime, there is a huge variance between what the AI can see and what the human player can see. In the worst weather, the human player can mainly spot only out to about 500-600 meters, where as the AI can still spot out 6km.

(4) It looks like the speed of spotting may be impacted by environmental conditions. More testing would be needed.

(5) I have definitely AI spotted ships further than 6km in actual game play. It would appear that another untested variable has to do with contact's motion or speed.

(6) The range the player is able to spot ships in clear conditions appears to greatly exceed the capabilities of the AI. It appears in poor conditions that the exact opposite holds; the AI is able to spot to a much greater distance.

* Discussion *

It was very interesting to find out that player spotting and AI spotting are entirely different. It also interesting to see that there is some form of peripheral vision affect modeled for AI spotting which probably doesn't make any logical sense, since a watch crew should be scanning in all directions.

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Perhaps, some of you heavy duty modders can explain some of this to me, since it is all kind of counter intuitive.

(1) Why does angle off of bow matter?

(2) Why is AI spotting the same distance wise?

(3) Why does the AI spot better than the player?

Finally, what implications are there when one is actually playing the game and on patrol?

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One thing which I take away from this is that in good conditions when expecting contact at any moment, you should be on the bridge looking yourself. However, in bad conditions, you are better off depending on the crew. (Of course, the other option is to use sonar in bad conditions which has much greater range than eyeballs.)

Yep, I haven't been testing counter detection here, but mainly detection by ownship/crew.

Umm, were these ships totally stationary, that is engines off (no smoke) or with engines running but speed set to 0 knots (smoke)?

0kts; no smoke.

I have no idea via PROPERTIES how to stoke the engines. Their course was set to 90 degrees of my surfaced sub. So, in general there was very large profile.

Now, another variable despite real world physics of occlussion may have been how the game resolves detects objects on very similar LOBs but a different distances. I hadn't considered that.

Set up looked like this:

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/marksh...ages/sh3me.jpg

Smaller is better? Who'd of thought?

My watch crew just spotted a destroyer... at 8800. Since I use stock 8km visibility, they're definitely better than me :p

Its not the size of the sub that matters but in how you... drive it :sunny: :sunny: :sunny:

I have definitely confirmed that the AI has peripheral vision issue.

I got a sound contact on a lone merchant. So, I set off in its direction.

I come to the bridge to have a look for myself. There it is a fairly large merchant about 6km 70 degrees starboard. Now, the watch crew is reporting nothing. I immediately order a turn towards the merchant. As soon as the front of the sub comes around, "Ship spotted!".

Here is the thing I don't get. Why angle of the bow have any relevance to the watch crew? Clearly there is must be a technical reason why it is so modeled, but I cannot possibly thing of one.

Of course, in real life, when you have single pair of eyes, you will in most cases spot better forwards. But there are five on the bridge. They each should be scanning their own sector.

Why hasn't anyone taught the crew in SH3 how to stand a watch?

Thanks.

The image shows exactly the behavior which I am describing.

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/marksh...ges/periph.jpg

In RL, at night you don't see a thing in front of you, only your peripheral vision works. :know:

This is in the day time. No disrespect, but that doesn't really explain these observations.

(a) No one is aware of angles affecting AI spotting? {possible being in systems I often find things which others miss}

(b) No one really cares?

(c) I have failed to explain it clearly?

(d) No one has anything relevant to add?

Sorry, I find so many techniques under discussions here: TDC settings, RPMs, depths, ... It seems odd that something as significant of how the AI sees the world would be of no interest to anyone.

Brag: "In RL, at night you don't see a thing in front of you, only your peripheral vision works."

MarkShot: "This is in the day time. No disrespect, but that doesn't really explain these observations."


I remember a post, here or at ubi with pics even, within the first month of sh3's release back in 05 that ... when the player look straight at a ship at night he could not see it yet as he panned the view to the side it become more visible on the screen. This person was saying how unrealistic this was. Dont know if it wae explained to him:D . Like when star gazing.



A ship on a constant bearing from the sub should be harder to spot than a ship on a changing bearing.


No smoke??
Is the sim modeled to spot smoke and/or ship differently.

"peripheral vision affect modeled for AI spotting" maybe its coded too much to the direction of the boat instead of to the crew.

OR maybe

The officer of the watch has the front viewing sector. Does where a "watch qualified" crew member is on the deck make a difference, in sim? in your testing?

Is there more eyes looking forward than to the sides?

Interesting point about the bearing rate. However, the results seem to show that bow on low bearing rate is easier for the AI to spot, than acute bow high bearing rate. ???

I was using a mod with GWX 1.03 which fixes sonar range that you always get max performance.

However, I thought Kpt. Lehmann said nothing was changed sensor-wise between 1.03 and 2.00.