Open letter to the NFL players...read and share

Dowly · 10-25-17, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Commander Wallace

U crank wasn't debating the merits of the pros and cons of kneeling during an anthem. U crank was saying the comment " go play in a minefield was uncalled for. I also agree.

He asked me to explain myself, I did. Read the posted replies before answering. It is not rocket science, I explained myself did I?

August · 10-25-17, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dowly

He asked me to explain myself, I did. Read the posted replies before answering. It is not rocket science, I explained myself did I?

Thing is Dowly you have a habit of wishing a gruesome death on forum members. Such very personal insults have no place in the forum and you know it.

Dowly · 10-25-17, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by August

Thing is Dowly you have a habit of wishing a gruesome death on forum members. Such very personal insults have no place in the forum and you know it.

That's what, the 3rd time you try to bait me? Neal, Mods?

Oh wait, immunity, sorry forgot.

PS. Sources for those "gruesome" deaths?

PPS. Before any moderation action is taken, I would really like to see August post some examples of me "wishing a gruesome death on forum members" (plural). Thank you.

Buddahaid · 10-25-17, 08:25 PM

Dowly, it boils down to who the "you" is you're referring to when you wrote "How about you go play on a minefield".

CaptainCruise · 10-25-17, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buddahaid

Dowly, it boils down to who the "you" is you're referring to when you wrote "How about you go play on a minefield".

I think he meant me.

Maybe I should have kept my mouth shut and never posted this. After reading all the replies I'm sorry I said anything. Next time I'll keep my opinions to myself.

Falkirion · 10-25-17, 08:40 PM

There's all types of patriots. There's some that agree with the stance that the players are taking and there's some that don't. At the end of the day both sides are entitled to express their own political opinion without fear of harassment/retaliation of those who don't agree with it.

Commander Wallace · 10-25-17, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dowly

He asked me to explain myself, I did. Read the posted replies before answering. It is not rocket science, I explained myself did I?

I did read it. I suggest you look at your post when you are sober as you explained in post # 7 that you were in your own words, " druken. " "Perhaps you should refrain from posting in the Subsim Forums when you are in such a state. It may save you a lot of grief. You simply just wanted to pick a fight with U Crank who is probably one of the most even keeled members here.

I believe the reason the thread was posted Dowly was to invite a thoughtful discussion, not what you all too frequently do. By the way Dowly,

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainCruise

Maybe I should have kept my mouth shut and never posted this. After reading all the replies I'm sorry I said anything. Next time I'll keep my opinions to myself.

You didn't do anything wrong as the letter you posted as part of your thread was a sobering reminder of the sacrifices made by our people in uniform like the military. As mentioned, you were inviting an open, honest and intelligent discussion on a current news Item that the U.S and it's citizens are grappling with.

Unfortunately for the players, what was meant to be a protest against unfair applications of the law was derailed or morphed into a protest against the country which is not what the players were trying to accomplish.

By the way CaptainCruise, I thought this was a great thread that you started and very timely. Nice job.

CaptainCruise · 10-26-17, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Commander Wallace

You didn't do anything wrong as the letter you posted as part of your thread was a sobering reminder of the sacrifices made by our people in uniform like the military. As mentioned, you were inviting an open, honest and intelligent discussion on a current news Item that the U.S and it's citizens are grappling with.

Unfortunately for the players, what was meant to be a protest against unfair applications of the law was derailed or morphed into a protest against the country which is not what the players were trying to accomplish.

By the way CaptainCruise, I thought this was a great thread that you started and very timely. Nice job.

Thanks for the prop. I think I needed one. Felt like I got clubbed a bit!

I don't know about the boycott that the original author of this post is asking for. I get the feeling this person is current military, or the family of someone in the military or maybe family of a soldier who was KIA'ed, and they're venting their emotions any way they feel they can. It's asking a lot, and I don't see a lot of people being that committed to going through with a boycott like this, but some will do it, and maybe that was the goal....at least turn a few heads.

As for the players, I'll say it again.....yes, they absolutely have the right to protest and make their feelings known. The issue they created here is choosing how you voice your opinions without starting a whole new problem. There are right ways and wrong ways to speak your mind and protest an injustice. I think they chose the wrong path to follow because now it seems like they've created more problems than what they started with by choosing something as touchy as disrespecting the National Anthem and the flag. Maybe they felt that would get them the most attention to their cause, or maybe they feel the flag and Anthem are symbols of what they believe is wrong with this country. Honestly, I don't know. It's a confusing issue. I would have to say what I believe the most is that they should have found a better way to voice their opinions without inflaming the situation. As u crank mentioned earlier in this thread....they have money, power, media exposure, they had plenty of options to choose a better voice for their cause, they just chose poorly and started a whole new problem. Instead of getting the public to rally to their cause, they turned many away and it will probably make this whole nightmare more difficult to resolve.

Rockstar · 10-26-17, 07:44 PM

“It (“Feliciano's rendition) was a disgrace, an insult,” a baseball fan, Arlene Raicevich of Detroit, told The Associated Press. “I’m going to write my senator about it.”

“It sounded like a hippie was singing it,” said another Detroiter, Bernie Gray.

Pitcher Dick Hughes said: “Thumbs down all the way. That’s a conformist’s song and should be sung the way it was written.” (We should add, there is no official version.)

But their teammate Tim McCarver said: “Why not that way? People go through a routine when they play the anthem. They stand up and yawn and almost fall asleep. This way, at least they listened.”

In the 1950s, the Baltimore Orioles, of all teams, decided that playing "The Banner" before every game cheapened its impact. The general manager at the time decided that he was going to only play it during special occasions.

Onkel Neal · 10-26-17, 08:29 PM

If these ball players wanted to help their cause they went about it the wrong way.

razark · 10-26-17, 09:04 PM

I'm not sure why it's disrespecting the flag or the anthem. The players are acknowledging it. They're kneeling and remaining silent. Just because they're not doing what everyone expects them to* doesn't mean they are showing disrespect. Disrespect would be quite different. Burning the flag, dragging it through the mud, ignoring it, talking to each other, walking out, turning their backs, disturbing fans or teammates that choose not to join their protest? That's disrespect.

*Is it actually "showing respect" if you just do it because you're expected to or because everyone else is doing it?
As quoted above, "People go through a routine when they play the anthem. They stand up and yawn and almost fall asleep." And "That’s a conformist’s song...", said without irony.

ET2SN · 10-26-17, 09:39 PM

Where's the rage at the other folks who dis-repect the flag?

You can see it in almost every neighborhood. There are flags that have been flying 24/7 for the last six years. They don't go up smartly at 8 AM, they don't get lowered respectfully at sunset. They just fly until there's nothing left but the grommets.

Yeah, I know. They're civilians and its allowed. I think that's a pretty big hint for this topic.

ET2SN · 10-26-17, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by razark

I'm not sure why it's disrespecting the flag or the anthem. The players are acknowledging it. They're kneeling and remaining silent. Just because they're not doing what everyone expects them to* doesn't mean they are showing disrespect. Disrespect would be quite different. Burning the flag, dragging it through the mud, ignoring it, talking to each other, walking out, turning their backs, disturbing fans or teammates that choose not to join their protest? That's disrespect.

*Is it actually "showing respect" if you just do it because you're expected to or because everyone else is doing it?
As quoted above, "People go through a routine when they play the anthem. They stand up and yawn and almost fall asleep." And "That’s a conformist’s song...", said without irony.

Actually, there are cases where burning the flag isn't a sign of dis-respect.

If a flag has become faded/worn, stained, or dirty to the point where it can't be repaired it should be burned. The idea is that you don't want to see an old flag sitting on a trash heap at the local dump. (see my last post)

As a sign of distress (a mayday or SOS signal). If the scouts are out on a patrol and the fort is attacked, as an example. This is also the reason why flags are burned as a sign of protest. The people aren't protesting because everything is just ducky.

10-25-17, 08:25 PM	#4
Buddahaid Shark above Space Chicken Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 9,326 Downloads: 162 Uploads: 0	Dowly, it boils down to who the "you" is you're referring to when you wrote "How about you go play on a minefield". __________________ "However vast the darkness, we must provide our own light." Stanley Kubrick "Tomorrow belongs to those who can hear it coming." David Bowie

10-26-17, 08:29 PM	#10
Onkel Neal Born to Run Silent Join Date: Jan 1997 Location: Cougar Trap, Texas Posts: 21,385 Downloads: 541 Uploads: 224	If these ball players wanted to help their cause they went about it the wrong way. __________________ SUBSIM - 26 Years on the Web

10-26-17, 09:04 PM	#11
razark Ocean Warrior Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 2,731 Downloads: 393 Uploads: 12	I'm not sure why it's disrespecting the flag or the anthem. The players are acknowledging it. They're kneeling and remaining silent. Just because they're not doing what everyone expects them to* doesn't mean they are showing disrespect. Disrespect would be quite different. Burning the flag, dragging it through the mud, ignoring it, talking to each other, walking out, turning their backs, disturbing fans or teammates that choose not to join their protest? That's disrespect. *Is it actually "showing respect" if you just do it because you're expected to or because everyone else is doing it? As quoted above, "People go through a routine when they play the anthem. They stand up and yawn and almost fall asleep." And "That’s a conformist’s song...", said without irony. __________________ "Never ask a World War II history buff for a 'final solution' to your problem!"

10-25-17, 08:40 PM	#6
Falkirion Ace of the Deep Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Melbourne, AUS Posts: 1,043 Downloads: 34 Uploads: 0	There's all types of patriots. There's some that agree with the stance that the players are taking and there's some that don't. At the end of the day both sides are entitled to express their own political opinion without fear of harassment/retaliation of those who don't agree with it.

10-26-17, 07:44 PM	#9
Rockstar In the Brig Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Zendia Bar & Grill Posts: 12,614 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	“It (“Feliciano's rendition) was a disgrace, an insult,” a baseball fan, Arlene Raicevich of Detroit, told The Associated Press. “I’m going to write my senator about it.” “It sounded like a hippie was singing it,” said another Detroiter, Bernie Gray. Pitcher Dick Hughes said: “Thumbs down all the way. That’s a conformist’s song and should be sung the way it was written.” (We should add, there is no official version.) But their teammate Tim McCarver said: “Why not that way? People go through a routine when they play the anthem. They stand up and yawn and almost fall asleep. This way, at least they listened.” In the 1950s, the Baltimore Orioles, of all teams, decided that playing "The Banner" before every game cheapened its impact. The general manager at the time decided that he was going to only play it during special occasions.

10-26-17, 09:39 PM	#12
ET2SN Ocean Warrior Join Date: Oct 2017 Posts: 2,652 Downloads: 60 Uploads: 0	Where's the rage at the other folks who dis-repect the flag? You can see it in almost every neighborhood. There are flags that have been flying 24/7 for the last six years. They don't go up smartly at 8 AM, they don't get lowered respectfully at sunset. They just fly until there's nothing left but the grommets. Yeah, I know. They're civilians and its allowed. I think that's a pretty big hint for this topic.