Open letter to the NFL players...read and share

[razark]

I'm not sure why it's disrespecting the flag or the anthem. The players are acknowledging it. They're kneeling and remaining silent. Just because they're not doing what everyone expects them to* doesn't mean they are showing disrespect. Disrespect would be quite different. Burning the flag, dragging it through the mud, ignoring it, talking to each other, walking out, turning their backs, disturbing fans or teammates that choose not to join their protest? That's disrespect.


*Is it actually "showing respect" if you just do it because you're expected to or because everyone else is doing it?
As quoted above, "People go through a routine when they play the anthem. They stand up and yawn and almost fall asleep." And "That’s a conformist’s song...", said without irony.

[ET2SN]

Where's the rage at the other folks who dis-repect the flag?

You can see it in almost every neighborhood. There are flags that have been flying 24/7 for the last six years. They don't go up smartly at 8 AM, they don't get lowered respectfully at sunset. They just fly until there's nothing left but the grommets.

Yeah, I know. They're civilians and its allowed. I think that's a pretty big hint for this topic.

[August]

Originally Posted by ET2SN

Where's the rage at the other folks who dis-repect the flag?

You can see it in almost every neighborhood. There are flags that have been flying 24/7 for the last six years. They don't go up smartly at 8 AM, they don't get lowered respectfully at sunset. They just fly until there's nothing left but the grommets.

Yeah, I know. They're civilians and its allowed. I think that's a pretty big hint for this topic.

You're missing the context here. Do these 24/7 flag fliers depend upon the financial support of a group of people who would get upset over it?

NFL players have every right to kneel during the national anthem but the fans also have a right to express their displeasure at the practice. More importantly they also have to right to punctuate that displeasure by not spending their money to support a league that would allow it to happen.

[ET2SN]

Originally Posted by razark

I'm not sure why it's disrespecting the flag or the anthem. The players are acknowledging it. They're kneeling and remaining silent. Just because they're not doing what everyone expects them to* doesn't mean they are showing disrespect. Disrespect would be quite different. Burning the flag, dragging it through the mud, ignoring it, talking to each other, walking out, turning their backs, disturbing fans or teammates that choose not to join their protest? That's disrespect.


*Is it actually "showing respect" if you just do it because you're expected to or because everyone else is doing it?
As quoted above, "People go through a routine when they play the anthem. They stand up and yawn and almost fall asleep." And "That’s a conformist’s song...", said without irony.

Actually, there are cases where burning the flag isn't a sign of dis-respect.

If a flag has become faded/worn, stained, or dirty to the point where it can't be repaired it should be burned. The idea is that you don't want to see an old flag sitting on a trash heap at the local dump. (see my last post)

As a sign of distress (a mayday or SOS signal). If the scouts are out on a patrol and the fort is attacked, as an example. This is also the reason why flags are burned as a sign of protest. The people aren't protesting because everything is just ducky.

[razark]

Originally Posted by ET2SN

Actually, there are cases where burning the flag isn't a sign of dis-respect.

True, but I trust we all know that this discussion is not about that kind of flag burning.

[ET2SN]

Originally Posted by August

Do these 24/7 flag fliers depend upon the financial support of a group of people who would get upset over it?

Well, heck yeah. I imagine they have to go to work somewhere and someone pays them.

[ET2SN]

Originally Posted by razark

True, but I trust we all know that this discussion is not about that kind of flag burning.

Just to repeat, with emphasis added:

As a sign of distress (a mayday or SOS signal). If the scouts are out on a patrol and the fort is attacked, as an example. This is also the reason why flags are burned as a sign of protest. The people aren't protesting because everything is just ducky.

[ET2SN]

PS to August;

Not to side-track this thread, but I really like your banner.
I'm nervous but enthused this year. Hopefully, Brady can keep these guys together but there are a lot of holes to fill before they can start thinking about the post season.

[em2nought]

If things aren't ducky, I suggest people start to look inward instead of blaming others for it.

[ET2SN]

Originally Posted by em2nought

If things aren't ducky, I suggest people start to look inward instead of blaming others for it.

You probably haven't been invaded by the Brits.
A long time ago, they used to teach a class called Civics in grade school.
I learned that Democracy is a great thing but you have to be willing to accept the whole bag and not just the parts you like.

[Catfish]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

[...]the original intent had nothing to do with disrespecting fans, customers, flags, or country. It had everything to do with one mans belief, real or perceived, of injustices towards others. And when it started to snowball into something about the flag instead. I think that elicited other Americans to protest with him and now they too are demonized.

The reason for this peaceful protest appears to have been entirely disregarded and forgotten. [...]

Oops agreeing with Rockstar..
^ That, this snowballing was directed and demonised by some allergic right wing media, trying to bring up a topic they are always interested in, but with what the original action had nothing to do with. A real orchestrated action to divert from the real problem that they try to sweep under the carpet by diverting and desinformation.

You know you can write an essay about your walk to work, mentioning sunflowers and seeing a US flag on the way; and instantly e.g. Breitbart will accuse you of not honouring it and trying to create a media storm discussing values and patriotism, and the NRA will criticize that you do not mention a gun.

It is all about twisting everything in a direction that interests them, and diverting from problems they should be accused for. Don't fall for it.

[CaptainCruise]

We all have our own opinions on this. Not all of us agree, some of us disagree quite.......vigorously. But there is one thing I think we can all agree on, and that is this mess is not going away anytime soon. At least until the end of football season, and then some jock in a different sport will probably carry on the cause while his football brother is home for the off season.

My hero's......

[Sean C]

Originally Posted by ET2SN

Where's the rage at the other folks who dis-repect the flag?

You can see it in almost every neighborhood. There are flags that have been flying 24/7 for the last six years. They don't go up smartly at 8 AM, they don't get lowered respectfully at sunset. They just fly until there's nothing left but the grommets.

Yeah, I know. They're civilians and its allowed. I think that's a pretty big hint for this topic.

I did see the last couple of sentences there, but I'd just like to point out:

4 U.S. Code § 6 - Time and occasion for display.

(a) It is the universal custom to display the flag only from sunrise to sunset on buildings and on stationary flagstaffs in the open. However, when a patriotic effect is desired, the flag may be displayed 24 hours a day if properly illuminated during the hours of darkness.

(Emphasis added.)

I do agree that leaving the flag up until it is tattered is disrespectful, and I'm sure there are plenty of people who don't illuminate it at night. However, I still think both of those things are far less disrespectful than sitting or kneeling during the anthem. I might even classify the former as simply misguided or lazy. At least they're flying a flag and trying to show their patriotism.

[Note: I fly a flag (or, more technically, a banner) at my home. It is always illuminated at night and I replace it when it becomes worn and/or faded. I have the old ones folded on a bookshelf waiting to be given to the Boy Scouts for proper destruction per 4 U.S. Code § 8.]

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by Catfish

Oops agreeing with Rockstar..
^ That, this snowballing was directed and demonised by some allergic right wing media, trying to bring up a topic they are always interested in, but with what the original action had nothing to do with. A real orchestrated action to divert from the real problem that they try to sweep under the carpet by diverting and desinformation.

You know you can write an essay about your walk to work, mentioning sunflowers and seeing a US flag on the way; and instantly e.g. Breitbart will accuse you of not honouring it and trying to create a media storm discussing values and patriotism, and the NRA will criticize that you do not mention a gun.

It is all about twisting everything in a direction that interests them, and diverting from problems they should be accused for. Don't fall for it.

There is an element of that, no doubt. Some factions will hype these things for their own good and purposes.

[August]

Originally Posted by ET2SN

Well, heck yeah. I imagine they have to go to work somewhere and someone pays them.

That brings up a whole new argument. To what extent your boss can spy on you outside of work?