Looking for a more realistic crew spotting mod

[seannybgoode]

So as it stands, my sub crew can spot in the pitch dark out pretty far. I like to play with *some* of the helper features turned on, because I'd like to have my crew help me spot, and have that stuff show on the map etc.

Problem is, yeah, it's very game breaking how they can spot in the pitch dark. Is there a mod to help with this?

[maillemaker]

Not only can they spot in pitch dark, but they can spot smoke 20km away sometimes!

Steve

[vdr1981]

Originally Posted by maillemaker

Not only can they spot in pitch dark, but they can spot smoke 20km away sometimes!

Steve

What's wrong with that?

[LesBaker]

Originally Posted by vdr1981

What's wrong with that?

Considering that a Type VIIC/41 had a height from the bottom of the keel to the top of the Conning tower of only 9.6m and a draft of 4.74m that puts the crew about 4.8m above sea level, assuming having a very tall member of the crew spotting that would put you at about a maximum height of 7m, at that height the horizon is only 9.4 Km away

[THEBERBSTER]

Hi Les

Just across the Solent from you in Dibden Purlieu.

Peter

[vdr1981]

Originally Posted by LesBaker

Considering that a Type VIIC/41 had a height from the bottom of the keel to the top of the Conning tower of only 9.6m and a draft of 4.74m that puts the crew about 4.8m above sea level, assuming having a very tall member of the crew spotting that would put you at about a maximum height of 7m, at that height the horizon is only 9.4 Km away

So, you're implying that watch crew should not be able spot smoke stag that rises 100m or more from upcoming ships if distance is greater than 9.4Km?
I'm asking this seriously because just recently I was asking my self how much stock max 20Km visual sensor range is actually realistic?

[Aktungbby]

seannybgoode!

[fitzcarraldo]

Originally Posted by vdr1981

So, you're implying that watch crew should not be able spot smoke stag that rises 100m or more from upcoming ships if distance is greater than 9.4Km?
I'm asking this seriously because just recently I was asking my self how much stock max 20Km visual sensor range is actually realistic?

For that cause I prefer 8km environments in SH3. 16k is....good. 20k is too much for me but I live with it in SH5.

Regards.

Fitzcarraldo

[Sailor Steve]

How tall is the smoke column/mast you're looking at? If it's 25 meters high then you can indeed see it at 20 km on a clear day.

[gap]

Originally Posted by LesBaker

Considering that a Type VIIC/41 had a height from the bottom of the keel to the top of the Conning tower of only 9.6m and a draft of 4.74m that puts the crew about 4.8m above sea level, assuming having a very tall member of the crew spotting that would put you at about a maximum height of 7m, at that height the horizon is only 9.4 Km away

9.4 km is the maximum distance that your hypothetical, very tall, crew member could spot a sheet of paper floating on the sea surface, if his eyes were sharp enough. Funnel's smoke is rising from the sea level by several tens of meters though. By taking the figures proposed by you and by Vecko as good (7m for the watch crew's height, and 100m for funnel's smoke height), we get a maximum detection distance of ca. 45 Km, in full day and with perfect visibility . If that wasn't enough, I will add that a Spitfire flying at its service ceiling of 11,000m, in theory could be detected (and on turn, it could detect us) at a distance of ca. 385 km. This is the trigonometric calculation, but for such a long distances other factors like air density and human eye's resolution (called "surface factor" within game files) come into the picture.

Has anyone thought about that? Are aircraft spotted in game at the same 20 km distance as ship's smoke?

[LesBaker]

Originally Posted by vdr1981

So, you're implying that watch crew should not be able spot smoke stag that rises 100m or more from upcoming ships if distance is greater than 9.4Km?
I'm asking this seriously because just recently I was asking my self how much stock max 20Km visual sensor range is actually realistic?

In theory on a crystal clear day you would be able to see a column of dense smoke 100m high at a distance of 35.7Km.

However due to Dust, water vapour, atmospheric distortion and pollution in the atmosphere, you will very rarely be able to see the smoke more than 20 kilometres away even on a perfectly clear day,

on a day less than perfect this distance will be greatly reduced, for instance on a hazy day you would probably not see the smoke any more than about 10Km.

[LesBaker]

Originally Posted by gap

If that wasn't enough, I will add that a Spitfire flying at its service ceiling of 11,000m, in theory could be detected (and on turn, it could detect us) at a distance of ca. 385 km. This is the trigonometric calculation, but for such a long distances other factors like air density and human eye's resolution (called "surface factor" within game files) come into the picture.

Has anyone thought about that? Are aircraft spotted in game at the same 20 km distance as ship's smoke?

The Spitfire pilot would need exceedingly good eyesight to spot an object the size of a Mk VII at 385 Km as it would have an apparent height of only 0.025974025974026 m and a length of 0.174025974025974 m,

working on the theory that a Spitfire pilot would be able to detect an object with an apparent size of 2 metres in length (highly unlikely) then he would be able to spot the Mk VII at a distance of 33.5Km.

Conversely the Mk VII crew with the same capabilities as the pilot would be able to see the Spitfire with a wingspan of 11.23m at a distance of 5.615 Km.

At a distance of 20 Km a Mk VII would have an apparent height of 0.24m and a length of only 3.05m.

[gap]

Originally Posted by LesBaker

In theory on a crystal clear day you would be able to see a column of dense smoke 100m high at a distance of 35.7Km.

However due to Dust, water vapour, atmospheric distortion and pollution in the atmosphere, you will very rarely be able to see the smoke more than 20 kilometres away even on a perfectly clear day,

on a day less than perfect this distance will be greatly reduced, for instance on a hazy day you would probably not see the smoke any more than about 10Km.

Originally Posted by LesBaker

The Spitfire pilot would need exceedingly good eyesight to spot an object the size of a Mk VII at 385 Km as it would have an apparent height of only 0.025974025974026 m and a length of 0.174025974025974 m,

working on the theory that a Spitfire pilot would be able to detect an object with an apparent size of 2 metres in length (highly unlikely) then he would be able to spot the Mk VII at a distance of 33.5Km.

Conversely the Mk VII crew with the same capabilities as the pilot would be able to see the Spitfire with a wingspan of 11.23m at a distance of 5.615 Km.

At a distance of 20 Km a Mk VII would have an apparent height of 0.24m and a length of only 3.05m.

You started the discussion on the distance from the horizon as the main factor limiting the view of stacks' smoke. I used your argument to demonstrate that land's curvature couldn't be the limiting factor, and you seem to agree now.

Dunno about aircraft spotting, but talking about smoke imo a visual range of 20 km is a good compromise. In ideal conditions, indeed, but I don't think our watch crew can see that far at night and during stormy / hazy weather