Senate report on CIA torture techniques released

[Cybermat47]

I can't say I feel particularly sorry for the terrorists (I hope the CIA didn't screw up and accidently arrest innocent people...) there, but what the CIA is doing there is as sick as some of the things the terrorists do.

And anyway, didn't the British Intelligence services in WWII get reliable information that helped win the war by befriending German POWs? I'm pretty sure that would be more effective than shoving food up someone's backside.

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Cybermat47

And anyway, didn't the British Intelligence services in WWII get reliable information that helped win the war by befriending German POWs? I'm pretty sure that would be more effective than shoving food up someone's backside.

I don't know if I'd say it helped win the war (not in as much as the Enigma breakthroughs did) but what we used to do was bug the rooms that the men were in and give them food and alcohol and see what came out.

However, I would not be at all surprised if other more...questionable...methods were also used, but, as we have seen in this report, the reliability of the information extracted by such methods is not exactly brilliant which brings into question the whole point of the affair.

[Catfish]

Originally Posted by Oberon

[...] ... but what we used to do was bug the rooms that the men were in and give them food and alcohol and see what came out.
However, I would not be at all surprised if other more...questionable...methods were also used [...] .

Of course England tortured, from the SS to people who were thought to be spies of the Soviet Union right after WW2 1946 until .. today (post WW2 example with evidence prison camp Bad Nenndorf, Germany). Did not take place on english ground (though the british zones were british territory, in a way) so no home law involved, but nevertheless done by english soldiers/ interrogation 'specialists'.

As already Mr. Eric Ambler said, "certain people always find their way into certain organisations like organised eavesdropping, secret services and torture squads, in each and every country, worldwide".

This is indeed a very special breed, and they seem to have great time, in today's "politics" and geostrategic planning.
In sane and healthy societies, you could meet them in asylums.

[ikalugin]

Originally Posted by Catfish

Of course England tortured, from the SS to people who were thought to be spies of the Soviet Union right after WW2 1946 until .. today (post WW2 example with evidence prison camp Bad Nenndorf, Germany). Did not take place on english ground (though the british zones were british territory, in a way) so no home law involved, but nevertheless done by english soldiers/ interrogation 'specialists'.

As already Mr. Eric Ambler said, "certain people always find their way into certain organisations like organised eavesdropping, secret services and torture squads, in each and every country, worldwide".

This is indeed a very special breed, and they seem to have great time, in today's "politics" and geostrategic planning.
In former times, you would have met them in asylums.

Atleast now a days it is considered to be a good practice as not to leave any permanent mark on the subject as far as I know. In professional circles at least, it is with semi professional amateurs where the extremes are in my opinion.

[Catfish]

Originally Posted by ikalugin

... it is considered to be a good practice as not to leave any permanent mark on the subject as far as I know. In professional circles at least, it is with semi professional amateurs where the extremes are in my opinion.

This is [insert a nice, fitting infraction here] !! (Hello Steve)

Having visual permanent marks that you keep for a lifetime have certainly other implications, but the effect of torture itself to the individual and his mind is the same, visible or invisible marks.
There is no such thing as civilized or professional torture.

People who do such things are psychopaths that deserve to be despised, charged, and locked away. At least.

Unless they make a career as patriotic heroes, in the secret services of the world

[Dread Knot]

One would think the ancient witchcraft trials of the past should have been sufficient to show that people will eventually say whatever they think the torturer wants to hear, but it never sinks in. I've since come to the conclusion that some people simply relish the act of torture, but the aren't willing to be thought of as the sort of people who enjoy torture. So they make up rationalizations. They assume that it does good, that is, torture is better than not. It also certainly appears that a fair number of people simply want to torture because they want to get pay-back from the bad guys, who we otherwise seem powerless to stop. So it becomes a short-term frustration release valve more than anything sort of effective intelligence gathering.

Anyway, with what is left of our moral authority shot, I guess it's time to turn to the immortal wisdom of Pogo again.

[CaptainMattJ.]

Originally Posted by Cybermat47

I can't say I feel particularly sorry for the terrorists (I hope the CIA didn't screw up and accidently arrest innocent people...) there, but what the CIA is doing there is as sick as some of the things the terrorists do.

They did indeed arrest and torture innocent people, and in the article it says they actually tortured one guy as leverage to make his family talk. The methods the CIA used are inexcusable human rights violations, not to mention completely unreliable. Bush and Cheney will probably go to their graves without admitting that what they allowed the CIA to do was disgusting, and had little to nothing to do with the safety of the american people.

[Cybermat47]

Originally Posted by CaptainMattJ.

They did indeed arrest and torture innocent people, and in the article it says they actually tortured one guy as leverage to make his family talk. The methods the CIA used are inexcusable human rights violations, not to mention completely unreliable. Bush and Cheney will probably go to their graves without admitting that what they allowed the CIA to do was disgusting, and had little to nothing to do with the safety of the american people.

Oh, bugger

The places where all this stuff is happening should be shut down.

It's so comforting to know that the CIA thinks being sadistic to a bunch of terrorists and innocent people is more important than getting information that could help the War on Terror