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Old 12-13-2020, 09:24 AM   #1
Cybermat47
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SHO A Guide to Historical FotRSU Gameplay

This is a quick guide I’ve been working on for people who want to ensure that their FotRSU gameplay is as historically accurate as possible.

This is currently a work in progress while I do research in my spare time.

Those who are more knowledgeable about the USN's submarine campaign against Japan, feel free to correct any errors I make.

Navigation and Patrolling

Refueling Before Reaching Patrol Area

It seems that US submarines would often refuel between leaving port and arriving at their assigned patrol area. In her July - September 1943, the USS Balao (SS-285) refueled from the USS Coucal in the Jomard Passage after leaving Brisbane, and before reaching her patrol area. Without including the time they spent travelling to the Jomard Passage together, and time spent at battlestations after sighting an aircraft, this took 2 hours and 5 minutes.

Later, during her February - March 1944 patrol, Balao refueled and took on oil and provisions at Tulagi, also between her departure from Brisbane and her arrival at her assigned patrol area. This took 6 hours and 51 minutes.

In FOTRSU, this can be simulated by heading straight for a rearm/refuel capable base such as Tulagi (in January 1944) and waiting for approx. 2 or 7 hours before or after you refuel, then heading out to your patrol area.

Submerged Patrols

In the Balao's previously mentioned two patrols, her logs record that patrolling was done at periscope depth during at least some daylight hours in assigned areas with known Japanese air cover. She would submerge sometime between 0500 and 0900, then surface sometime between 1320 and 2100.

This seems to have been up to the captain's discretion. The July - September 1943 patrol was commanded by Commander Richard Henry Crane, who tended to submerge earlier and surface later than his replacement, Commander Cyrus Churchill Cole (it's also worth noting that Crane's log is written in a blandly professional and concise style, while Cole's is written with more anecdotal and individualistic style).

Speed

During her July - September 1943 patrol, Balao's logs report that she would patrol at a speed of 3 knots while submerged and 9 knots while surfaced. She cruised and intercepted targets at 9, 15, or 17 knots surfaced.

Sources:

- https://catalog.archives.gov/id/74802336
- https://catalog.archives.gov/id/74802445
- https://uboat.net/allies/warships/ship/3031.html
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Historical TWoS Gameplay Guide: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=2572620
Historical FotRSU Gameplay Guide: https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/sho....php?p=2713394

Last edited by Cybermat47; 12-13-2020 at 10:36 AM.
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Old 12-13-2020, 02:42 PM   #2
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Oooh-ooo... lol - excellent idea.

Look in the FotRSU mod's Support folder for the "Research" folder, as well as other misplaced items that might be found to be of interest in your quest. This is the basis for the idea behind the mod. By the by, that is NOT all of the research material we have found over the years. The plan was to have a "Behind the Mod" set of research files, with docs, maps & pictures, along with a bibliography. I'll try to find it all, if you want to use it, and / or go ahead and package it and release that, along with your other findings. ??
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Old 12-19-2020, 11:14 AM   #3
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Default Inaccuracies...

One thing to keep in mind is that there are some serious differences between the real world globe and Silent Hunter 4 Flat Earth.
This affects the ability to accurately model speed as well as distance traveled as well as fuel usage.
For instance, on page 107 of Clay Blair JR "Silent Victory" there is a reference of USS Gudgeon making a 3,400 nautical mile trek to Bungo Suido from Pearl Harbor. That mileage is correct when using Great Circle navigation, but in Silent Hunter 4 that straight line (Rhumb line) distance is closer to 4,600 nm! In Silent Hunter 4, we have to travel nearly 25% more distance also using ~25% more fuel.
It took USS Gudgeon 21.5 days to reach empire waters as they departed on Dec. 11 and arrived on station in Bungo Suido on December 31, 1941. That comes out to an average speed of ~ 7 knots which includes time submerged within the 500 nm airbase zone.
In order for us to travel the ~ 4,600 nm in the same time, we would have to travel an average speed of ~ 9 knots, a 25% increase in speed and fuel usage.
It is extremely difficult to balance these disparities within the framework of the SH4.exe. I also like to play with real world numbers in game, but keep in mind, many compromises have to be made in order to make the game playable, a task that our many expert modders have to juggle with continuously.
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Old 01-10-2021, 11:03 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Front Runner View Post
One thing to keep in mind is that there are some serious differences between the real world globe and Silent Hunter 4 Flat Earth.
This affects the ability to accurately model speed as well as distance traveled as well as fuel usage.
For instance, on page 107 of Clay Blair JR "Silent Victory" there is a reference of USS Gudgeon making a 3,400 nautical mile trek to Bungo Suido from Pearl Harbor. That mileage is correct when using Great Circle navigation, but in Silent Hunter 4 that straight line (Rhumb line) distance is closer to 4,600 nm! In Silent Hunter 4, we have to travel nearly 25% more distance also using ~25% more fuel.
It took USS Gudgeon 21.5 days to reach empire waters as they departed on Dec. 11 and arrived on station in Bungo Suido on December 31, 1941. That comes out to an average speed of ~ 7 knots which includes time submerged within the 500 nm airbase zone.
In order for us to travel the ~ 4,600 nm in the same time, we would have to travel an average speed of ~ 9 knots, a 25% increase in speed and fuel usage.
It is extremely difficult to balance these disparities within the framework of the SH4.exe. I also like to play with real world numbers in game, but keep in mind, many compromises have to be made in order to make the game playable, a task that our many expert modders have to juggle with continuously.
Is it the same thing with Silent Hunter III?
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Old 01-10-2021, 12:42 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Niume View Post
Is it the same thing with Silent Hunter III?
Ahoy, Niume...

Seeing, as to My understanding of it at any rate... SH4, is built on the bones (files & such that make up SH3) of SH3... then I'd surmise that... Yeah, that would include SH3, as well Niume. It would stand to reason that would be the case.

Real Earth, with all it's curves & bulky weight.. is NOT modeled in any of the SH line, that I know of... wish it were though. Wouldn't take them (Ubi) long to do so... the basics are already out there... would be nice to see the SH line, remastered to make use of.. like say, Google earth... for instance.

M. M.

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Old 01-10-2021, 06:40 PM   #6
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You guys and your round earth theories... why, if the world wasn't flat, we'd fall off of it, and ships would sail beyond and off the edges... err - wait, I am combining excuses... Nevermind...

In the meantime, the world has been flat from Silent Hunter (the number one version), all the way through II, III, 4, 5, and Online (aka: 6). Programming for a round world would be a bit problematic, and entail quite a bit of math... or something along those lines... "the sun got in my eyes"... "it's too ~hard~"... etc. besides the fact that if you go around more than one and a half times, you'll pull the extension cord out of the wall outlet...
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Old 01-10-2021, 07:47 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by propbeanie View Post
You guys and your round earth theories... why, if the world wasn't flat, we'd fall off of it, and ships would sail beyond and off the edges... err - wait, I am combining excuses... Nevermind...

In the meantime, the world has been flat from Silent Hunter (the number one version), all the way through II, III, 4, 5, and Online (aka: 6). Programming for a round world would be a bit problematic, and entail quite a bit of math... or something along those lines... "the sun got in my eyes"... "it's too ~hard~"... etc. besides the fact that if you go around more than one and a half times, you'll pull the extension cord out of the wall outlet...
are you still going to your shock therapy sessions?
if you are, tell them to up the voltage.
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Old 01-10-2021, 07:55 PM   #8
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Quote:
You guys and your round earth theories...
What you flat-earthers cannot seem to grasp is that it the world was flat Cats would have pushed everything off of the surface by now. Don't try to deny the existence of Cats...

On a thread-related note, have just updated FOTRS and have started a 1943 patrol to Empire waters. Will advise if odd things occur.

-C
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Old 01-11-2021, 11:10 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randomizer View Post
What you flat-earthers cannot seem to grasp is that it the world was flat Cats would have pushed everything off of the surface by now. Don't try to deny the existence of Cats...

On a thread-related note, have just updated FOTRS and have started a 1943 patrol to Empire waters. Will advise if odd things occur.

-C
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Old 01-11-2021, 12:19 PM   #10
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Mayhem!!!




Hi-jinx!!!




Just plain MEAN!!!


you have convinced me, good sir...
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Old 01-24-2021, 05:00 PM   #11
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What a great idea for a topic! I've been studying more authentic approach and targeting methods for the last few weeks.I know there are more authentic ways to create a torpedo solution. I want something more authentic than the over used 3 min time & distance for speed, directly measuring distance with a compass circle, etc. These methods are authentic to a degree. Fleet boats were equipped with a Dead Reckoning Tracer, a Parallel Motion and the Bearing and Range Indicator, all receiving data from the same sources the TDC does. One problem is the document is dated 1950. The use of the ST radar is reference often and some of the equipment wasn't available during the war.

The last year, I've read about 8 different books about the 'Fleet boat Aces', eg. O'Kane, Morton, Flucky, etc. and how they set up there torpedo shots. One of the documents I've been studying is the Submarine Torpedo Fire Control Manual at the HNSA site. It's a gold mine of how-to's. The calculations for finding range by using mast height, Constant, Continuous and Check Bearing methods for speed and AoB. One device that we don't have is the Omnimeter. Our most honorable Capnscurvy created a mod for TMO and RFB is the Optical Targeting Correction and included in the mod is a Omnimeter. The mod includes a make-over of the telescope. It has a true field of view and calibrated graticules and lock focal points are center mass of the target ship. The stadimeter measuring points are marked on the recognition book silhouettes. Very cool mod!!

I put together a 'wire speed' reference posted in this forum. It's a compilation of the ship's lengths (not included in the reference) in meters so you can use the time across wire for speed. Sometimes I don't have 3 minutes to wait around for speed. I'm working on a new version that's a little more concise and accurate. It should be up in a day or so. If anyone else has insights or ideas, I'd love to hear them!

Submarine Torpedo Fire Control Manual
http://archive.hnsa.org/doc/attack/index.htm

Torpedo Data Computer
http://archive.hnsa.org/doc/tdc/index.htm#toc
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Old 01-24-2021, 05:37 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Front Runner View Post
One thing to keep in mind is that there are some serious differences between the real world globe and Silent Hunter 4 Flat Earth.
This affects the ability to accurately model speed as well as distance traveled as well as fuel usage.
For instance, on page 107 of Clay Blair JR "Silent Victory" there is a reference of USS Gudgeon making a 3,400 nautical mile trek to Bungo Suido from Pearl Harbor. That mileage is correct when using Great Circle navigation, but in Silent Hunter 4 that straight line (Rhumb line) distance is closer to 4,600 nm! In Silent Hunter 4, we have to travel nearly 25% more distance also using ~25% more fuel.
It took USS Gudgeon 21.5 days to reach empire waters as they departed on Dec. 11 and arrived on station in Bungo Suido on December 31, 1941. That comes out to an average speed of ~ 7 knots which includes time submerged within the 500 nm airbase zone.
In order for us to travel the ~ 4,600 nm in the same time, we would have to travel an average speed of ~ 9 knots, a 25% increase in speed and fuel usage.
It is extremely difficult to balance these disparities within the framework of the SH4.exe. I also like to play with real world numbers in game, but keep in mind, many compromises have to be made in order to make the game playable, a task that our many expert modders have to juggle with continuously.
Everyone knows that the earth is a tetrahedron!
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Old 01-24-2021, 06:47 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Macgregor the Hammer View Post
Everyone knows that the earth is a tetrahedron!
don't get technical with me, mister.
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Old 01-25-2021, 09:24 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KaleunMarco View Post
don't get technical with me, mister.


NYUK....NYUK....NYUK!!
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