A question about the pre-germany era

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Eichhornchen

Well I guess there was that bloke called "Herman the German" in antiquity, wasn't there? So I suppose the word does pre-date the federation of all those small states.

A nickname, his real name was Arminius , a latinized version of his germanic name Erminaz. the later germanized version of the latinized verison wold become "Hermann".

I was born in the shadow of the Hermann Height Monument, btw. My grandfather'S name was Hermann. And I owned not one but four swords in my life. You all are warned.

Arminius was Cheruscian, usually described as a Germanic tribe. The English reference "Hermann the German" in unknown in German, he does not have the name "Hermann der Deutsche/Germane" in German language. In German, he occasionally gets referred to as "Hermann der Cherusker".

It is under debate that the Cherusci indeed have to be counted as a Germanic tribe. However, no matter their origin they got absorbed by Franconian and Alemmani tribes later.

[mapuc]

Thank you Skybird for your indeep answer.

So the word German is older than I have learned or read.

Markus

[Eichhörnchen]

Originally Posted by Skybird

A nickname, his real name was Arminius , a latinized version of his germanic name Erminaz. the later germanized version of the latinized verison wold become "Hermann".

I was born in the shadow of the Hermann Height Monument, btw. My grandfather'S name was Hermann. And I owned not one but four swords in my life. You all are warned.

Arminius was Cheruscian, usually described as a Germanic tribe. The English reference "Hermann the German" in unknown in German, he does not have the name "Hermann der Deutsche/Germane" in German language. In German, he occasionally gets referred to as "Hermann der Cherusker".

It is under debate that the Cherusci indeed have to be counted as a Germanic tribe. However, no matter their origin they got absorbed by Franconian and Alemmani tribes later.

Well as you've probably concluded from my own contributions, the English can be a rather shallow race and we probably called him Hermann the German for no other reason than that it rhymes!

Joking aside, I did find your expansion very interesting, Skybird. Thank you...


PS/ perhaps you would now like to contribute a title toward my Animal Film Club thread?

[Schroeder]

Originally Posted by Eichhornchen

we probably called him Hermann the German for no other reason than that it rhymes!

Only if you mispronounce his name in an English manner. When pronounced correctly it doesn't rhyme with "German".

[Eichhörnchen]

Yeah but when I say it in my head, it comes out in a pantomimic German accent and rhymes...

[Joefour]

German-from the latin word germanus--genuine, real,actual, true.

[Eichhörnchen]

Now I certainly did not know that. Interesting...

[Catfish]

Tyskland is just the translation of Deutschland, in danish.

Germanic tribes is almost all that moves around from the northern parts of Scandinavia, to Germany and the Netherlands.

There were (are ? lol) other tribes like Suebes, the Chattes a.s.o. but all merged with the later Franconian or Alemanni as Skybird wrote.

There were some germanic tribes in the northern parts of what is Germany today (but was'nt then), a tribe called Angeln or Angles, and then there certainly were the Saxons. When they tried to "invade" England (was more of a long-lasting movement), they became to be known as the Anglo-Saxons, forming parts or shires like Sussex or Wessex, as abbreviations of new Western or Southern Saxony.
When the Normans came in 1066, some of the older names stuck until today. From the language, some say that english is closer to the original "germanic" tongue of those tribes, than in today's Germany, certainly due to the isolation and on the other hand the ongoing interaction that took place on the continent.
The 'th' was a typical germanic phoneme, e.g. the gathering of chiefs to deal and speak right regulöarly, was called the "Thing", no joke.

A certain Mr. H. from Austria never understood why England declared war to Germany in WW2, by his own racial ideology they were the closest brothers

[Aktungbby]

[QUOTE]SKYBIRD:I was born in the shadow of the Hermann Height Monument, btw.[/QUOTE] Hey I attended college in the same shadow: near New Ulm Minnesota! An Arminius Pale Lager to ya! ( )

[v-i-c-]

Originally Posted by Catfish

There were (are ? lol) other tribes like Suebes, the Chattes a.s.o. but all merged with the later Franconian or Alemanni as Skybird wrote.

There were some germanic tribes in the northern parts of what is Germany today (but was'nt then), … some say that english is closer to the original "germanic" tongue of those tribes, than in today's Germany

I am from the area where the Chatti lived (a tribe which did not moved during the migration period), scientists says the word Hesse is based on the word Chatti. The area of the Chatti became the heart of the original Hesse (which today is the northern region of hesse)

Some old people in northern germany who still speak some weird old dialect sometimes understand english. The grandmum of a friend was able to understand a friend of him from the UK. She never learned english.

When Hochdeutsch (standard german / high german) was introduced the southern dialects were much closer to it than the northern, as a result today's northern dialects are newer and much closer to correct Hochdeutsch than the southern ones who usually speak a "worse" Hochdeutsch which is harder to understand.

The word "deutsch" is based on the word "theodiscus" (diutisc, tiutsch, etc. deutsch) it means "of the people" (it is has nothing to do with "german" / Germanen etc.) - the idea of "being deutsch" was always the idea of a common language, heritage and of culture, not of a nation (the idea of nations itself is still pretty new anyway). East franconians spoke theodisce (which became todays german) and west franconians spoke a so called primitive "Bauernlatein" (farmer's latin) which later evolved to the most beautiful language of the world: french.

The well known first verse of our national anthem "Deutschland, Deutschland über alles" (which is not in use anymore since 1945) is usually completely misinterpreted, it is a call to unity. It was written in 1841, 35 years after the end of the first reich.

Like Skybird already said you could say the end of the pre-germany era starts with the battle of the Lechfeld, after that the real history of germany began. Sometimes more and sometimes less united with a more or less powerful Kaiser, I guess our history is the reason why we still are a federation.