A question about the pre-germany era

[Catfish]

Tyskland is just the translation of Deutschland, in danish.

Germanic tribes is almost all that moves around from the northern parts of Scandinavia, to Germany and the Netherlands.

There were (are ? lol) other tribes like Suebes, the Chattes a.s.o. but all merged with the later Franconian or Alemanni as Skybird wrote.

There were some germanic tribes in the northern parts of what is Germany today (but was'nt then), a tribe called Angeln or Angles, and then there certainly were the Saxons. When they tried to "invade" England (was more of a long-lasting movement), they became to be known as the Anglo-Saxons, forming parts or shires like Sussex or Wessex, as abbreviations of new Western or Southern Saxony.
When the Normans came in 1066, some of the older names stuck until today. From the language, some say that english is closer to the original "germanic" tongue of those tribes, than in today's Germany, certainly due to the isolation and on the other hand the ongoing interaction that took place on the continent.
The 'th' was a typical germanic phoneme, e.g. the gathering of chiefs to deal and speak right regulöarly, was called the "Thing", no joke.

A certain Mr. H. from Austria never understood why England declared war to Germany in WW2, by his own racial ideology they were the closest brothers

[Aktungbby]

[QUOTE]SKYBIRD:I was born in the shadow of the Hermann Height Monument, btw.[/QUOTE] Hey I attended college in the same shadow: near New Ulm Minnesota! An Arminius Pale Lager to ya! ( )

[Eichhörnchen]

Catfish's point about the gradual settlement by groups like the Angles is a good one (how our region of East Anglia came by its name).

It's often now said that far from an overwhelming conquest and martial domination of the areas they did occupy, the Vikings in later times (unlike their Norman descendants) were gradually, peacefully and willingly subsumed into the existing population.

[v-i-c-]

Originally Posted by Catfish

There were (are ? lol) other tribes like Suebes, the Chattes a.s.o. but all merged with the later Franconian or Alemanni as Skybird wrote.

There were some germanic tribes in the northern parts of what is Germany today (but was'nt then), … some say that english is closer to the original "germanic" tongue of those tribes, than in today's Germany

I am from the area where the Chatti lived (a tribe which did not moved during the migration period), scientists says the word Hesse is based on the word Chatti. The area of the Chatti became the heart of the original Hesse (which today is the northern region of hesse)

Some old people in northern germany who still speak some weird old dialect sometimes understand english. The grandmum of a friend was able to understand a friend of him from the UK. She never learned english.

When Hochdeutsch (standard german / high german) was introduced the southern dialects were much closer to it than the northern, as a result today's northern dialects are newer and much closer to correct Hochdeutsch than the southern ones who usually speak a "worse" Hochdeutsch which is harder to understand.

The word "deutsch" is based on the word "theodiscus" (diutisc, tiutsch, etc. deutsch) it means "of the people" (it is has nothing to do with "german" / Germanen etc.) - the idea of "being deutsch" was always the idea of a common language, heritage and of culture, not of a nation (the idea of nations itself is still pretty new anyway). East franconians spoke theodisce (which became todays german) and west franconians spoke a so called primitive "Bauernlatein" (farmer's latin) which later evolved to the most beautiful language of the world: french.

The well known first verse of our national anthem "Deutschland, Deutschland über alles" (which is not in use anymore since 1945) is usually completely misinterpreted, it is a call to unity. It was written in 1841, 35 years after the end of the first reich.

Like Skybird already said you could say the end of the pre-germany era starts with the battle of the Lechfeld, after that the real history of germany began. Sometimes more and sometimes less united with a more or less powerful Kaiser, I guess our history is the reason why we still are a federation.

[Eichhörnchen]

Thank you, v-i-c-, that was completely fascinating and so eloquently explained.

I've always been intrigued by our dark-age history in this country, but this German stuff is all new to me and totally wonderful. The part concerning your friend's grandmother was especially interesting...

[v-i-c-]

When I hear real swiss german I don't understand much more than 25%. That's why it is usually subtitled here. Actually I don't understand why they write normal german when they talk this way. It once took me 2 stations till I realized that the tourists in the tram beside me were from switzerland, I wondered what kind of language that might be.

I would say it is easier to try to understand written dutch than listening to swiss german. (BTW: the word "dutch" is also based on "theodisk")

It is much better when someone talks a real heavy bavarian but I don't understand a lot of it too and it is really exhausting to listen to it.

[Feuer Frei!]

Originally Posted by v-i-c-

When I hear real swiss german I don't understand much more than 25%. That's why it is usually subtitled here. Actually I don't understand why they write normal german when they talk this way

De Schwiezer.

It is much better when someone talks a real heavy bavarian but I don't understand a lot of it too and it is really exhausting to listen to it.

I bin a Bayer, a echter Deitscher So sag i immer.

Some germans mistake my Bavarian dialekt for Austrian.
I set them straight very very quickly

[Catfish]

Thanks VIC, good explanation. And i also lived in Chattia for a while, in Kassel, which again comes from the roman Kastell (and: castle)


Is this the beautiful french language, or bavarian:

"Dans y réfuse
d'avec, si laquelle,
si d'ami cher"

Feuer Frei should know

[v-i-c-]

Originally Posted by Catfish

And i also lived in Chattia for a while, in Kassel

I've lived in Kassel almost 3/4 of my life till I moved to Berlin 12 years ago.

This is what I still call home:

Kind of world's most awesome "playground" (UNESCO world heritage) when you are a child:

[Feuer Frei!]

Originally Posted by Catfish

"Dans y réfuse
d'avec, si laquelle,
si d'ami cher"

Feuer Frei should know

Du Lackel Du

Vena laus amoris, pax, druxun goris

Ah die Zungenbrecher...

[v-i-c-]

Originally Posted by Catfish

"Dans y réfuse
d'avec, si laquelle,
si d'ami cher"

Originally Posted by Feuer Frei!

Du Lackel Du

Vena laus amoris, pax, druxun goris

Ah die Zungenbrecher...

I try to get it but all I understand is the "si d'ami cher" part.

[Bilge_Rat]

Originally Posted by Catfish

Thanks VIC, good explanation. And i also lived in Chattia for a while, in Kassel, which again comes from the roman Kastell (and: castle)


Is this the beautiful french language, or bavarian:

"Dans y réfuse
d'avec, si laquelle,
si d'ami cher"

Feuer Frei should know

That is french. Is that the exact quote? there seems to be words missing although it could be ancient french.

[Cybermat47]

Originally Posted by v-i-c-

I am from the area where the Chatti lived (a tribe which did not moved during the migration period), scientists says the word Hesse is based on the word Chatti. The area of the Chatti became the heart of the original Hesse (which today is the northern region of hesse)

Weren't the Chatti part of the Suebi at one point?

[v-i-c-]

No.