The Scottish Independence thread - Yay or Nay?

[Jimbuna]

Arguments for independence:

http://www.independentscotland.org/c...dependence.htm

Arguments against independence:

http://www.independentscotland.org/c...dependence.htm

[Schroeder]

Originally Posted by THEBERBSTER

I hope that Scotland is brave it enough to go it alone.

The thousands of deaths and massacres of the Scots fighting the English through the ages will not then have been in vain.

With that way of thinking the whole of Europe would still be at war with each other for all eternity....
Maybe we should start a war with Italy...after all the Romans did to us 2.000 years ago...

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Schroeder

With that way of thinking the whole of Europe would still be at war with each other for all eternity....
Maybe we should start a war with Italy...after all the Romans did to us 2.000 years ago...

Well, it's been the longest period of time that Europe hasn't been at war with each other since the Roman era.

[MGR1]

Good grief, that's a bit of thread resurrection! I haven't been keeping an eye on SubSim lately.

Anyway, for those who think it's all about "Braveheart" style English hating, I found this article on the BBC news website, which should open yer eyes a bit :

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/special/20...699/index.html

This bit sums things up quite well:

I asked one, an old friend I hadn’t seen for at least 10 years, why he’d be voting yes. “I changed my mind quite a while ago. For me it’s about the way Britain has gone - the extremes of wealth and poverty that people down south seem comfortable with, the dominance of the privately educated people in all walks of life, the rise of UKIP, the talk of leaving the EU and a Labour Party that I don’t really recognise any more”.

He is not alone. Social attitudes surveys reveal that Scottish public opinion, on any given question, is not very different to opinion elsewhere in the UK. The Scots do not seem to be more left-wing, issue-by-issue, than anyone else - at least not by very much.

Why, then, do the Scots vote so differently? Why is it that the central Edinburgh constituency that I live in returns a Labour MP dependably at every general election? When I moved here in the 1970s and 80s, it was a Tory seat and Edinburgh was mostly a Tory city.

The yes-supporting journalist and writer George Kerevan has himself moved from the British left to the independence camp.

The need for independence as he sees it is “based on the need to put into practice traditional Scottish views on morality inherited from the Reformation and codified by the Scottish Enlightenment… This is a moral philosophy that definitely encourages private endeavour rather than state paternalism, but it also anchors private morality in a social context".

In other words, private endeavour and reward should be connected in some way to the greater public good.

For nationalist intellectuals who have, in the course of their lifetimes moved to the independence camp, what is happening in Scotland is, in part, a Presbyterian revolt against what they perceive as the growing inequality of British society - the apparent retreat from the ideals of social mobility, from the social justice agenda that characterised post-war Britain from the 40s to the 80s.

Blame Westminster - the institution and the way it runs things is the problem.

Devolution for all, and that includes England's Cities and Counties as well.
Mike.

[donna52522]

I say yay, those people suffered enough.

[Oberon]

It's clear what we need now is a resurrection of the old borders.



But that would just result in Norway declaring war on us...

[Catfish]

^ You could build a shore battery, in Lindisfarne

[August]

Mercia? That pronounced 'murika?

[ExFishermanBob]

Well, that map's a bit modern - where's Strath Clwyd? And Cumbria?

[TarJak]

Those are way too modern again. Try a bit older:


Or older still if that one's a bit too Roman for you:

[TarJak]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-09-0...ndence/5726836

So what happens if the vote is a tie? Is there a penalty shoot-out?

[Jimbuna]

The deciding factor may well be the fact that the Scots believe they are not only being governed from Westminster but also the fact that the Tories are in power...look how many Tory MP's are based in Scotland.

[Skybird]

Anyone having had a look at the Pound recently?

85% of the oil dwells would fall to Scotland. Point for them, a big loss for the south. Also, the financial market in the south would suffer tremendously and loose attractiveness.

On the other hand, the oil is not lasting forever, the amount getting produced, is declining. Could become a medium term problem for Scotland, depending on how far it would rely on those incomes.

I wish them Scots good luck, their case has my sympathy - but only as long as German workers and employees are not left with needing to pay the additional bills for it's "independence", not directly, not indirectly.

[Platapus]

If Scotland leaves the UK, would they still be part of the commonwealth? Or are they practically the same thing?

[Buddahaid]

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

The deciding factor may well be the fact that the Scots believe they are not only being governed from Westminster but also the fact that the Tories are in power...look how many Tory MP's are based in Scotland.

Pardon my ignorance but aren't they elected by their constituency when the PM calls for an election?