Anyone remember Projekt Messerwetzer?

kraznyi_oktjabr · 08-06-11, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

For some odd reason, I was reminded of this and the guy we hired to program the multiplayer conversion, Duane Doutel (Herr Baron). It started off great but did not end well. Someone sent me a link, he is still generating plenty of excitement.

Yeesh, even audio...

Neal, could you give some history about this? I'm quite junior member (atleast with this account) and I don't remember hearing about this incident except that name "Herr Baron" sounds very familiar.

the_tyrant · 08-06-11, 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kraznyi_oktjabr

Neal, could you give some history about this? I'm quite junior member (atleast with this account) and I don't remember hearing about this incident except that name "Herr Baron" sounds very familiar.

+1
can someone please provide some background?
thanks

RickC Sniper · 08-06-11, 02:42 PM

I'll give it a try.
Subsim created a sister site called SubClub in anticipation of the release of SHII. SHII promised interop play with Destroyer Command. (Subs attacking convoys....Destroyers protecting convoys.

SHII however, was released in a bad state and the highly anticipated multiplay vs Destroyers was faulty and unacceptable.

Neal, D. Doutel, myself and a few others were beta testers for the multiplayer aspect of the game just before SHII was released. Testing required coordination so we all hooked up via Yahoo voice chat before launching the games. Some of us in Subs, some in Destroyers. That is where I got to know Duane.

Eventually, once it was realized the multiplay aspect was terribly flawed and it was apparant no patch to fix it was ever going to come, Neal convinced the company to release the code to him. Doutel was an out of work programmer and really believed he could fix the code, but he wanted some compensation. Neal arranged to have the code sent to him, and Subclub started a huge fundraiser, with what we raised going to Duane.

The fundraiser and repair was named " Projekt Messerwetzer".

Eventually, Duane did have a few successes regarding connectivity so he improved things slightly but never to the point of calling things "fixed".
Eventually I think at some point he stopped working on it. Our fundraiser had run it's course so there was no more $$ being sent.

Around that point, other members who were skilled programmers wanted to have a go at the code in an attempt to repair it. That is where things got a bit ugly.

Duane was asked to release the code and he refused, believing the devs had released it to him and no one else. He broke off contact, and SubClub and Neal petitioned him to release the code, or at lease communicate further.
Frustration is the best word I can think of to describe the whole thing.

Neal stated above that it did not end well. A heck of an understatement.

.......This is from memory (and a pretty old, worn out one) so Neal, if I stated something incorrectly please feel free to correct me.

Sailor Steve · 08-06-11, 10:35 PM

Rick, I think it's Duane, not Doug. Buuuuut, I came along just late enough to miss all that fun, but was around when Mr. Doutel started using the forums to attack everyone involved in the project, especially Neal.

So yeah, it was ugly. We did have a lot of fun playing SH2 and DC, though.

Onkel Neal · 08-06-11, 11:05 PM

Rick, you got it pretty much right on.

The real dealbreaker came with the publicity. I was working every angle I could to get press for this project. I worked to promote the project and Duane was prominently mentioned in all press releases.
This is the press release that was sent to all journalists: http://9teuflottille.de/files/download/files/sh2-mod/pm103install_de.txt

Three magazine articles, at least four newspaper articles, 27 websites, Tech TV, and one German TV program chronicled the effort and most mentioned Doutel by name. One magazine, however, did not print his name, just details about the project and where it could be found.

It was Bill Trotter's PC Gamer article that disturbed Duane beyond belief.

http://www.subsim.com/ssr/pcgamer_pmarticle.html

Doutel began trying to coax Trotter into writing a follow up, that eventually turned into a stalking and aggresive harassment by e-mail. I learned there was a problem when Trotter called me on the phone to tell me to get Duane to back off. How bad was the harrassment? It was bad, unprofessional, and kind of scary.

So bad, that Trotter eventually did write a follow up:

Trotter got some of his details wrong too. As you saw, the press releases I sent him did mention Duane. And I did not actually say "Don't go out of your way to accomodate". I said, "If you cannot publish a follow-up or correction, it is ok, because Duane was credited in two other articles", and I said this after the article was published and Duane was barraging Trotter with demands to write another article. I was very happy that Trotter and PC Gamer mentioned the project at all, I wasn't about to rake them over the coals for not mentioning the programmer individually. I thought it was a bit too much of Duane to expect PC Gamer to write another article. You cannot tell game magazines what to do. Once it's printed there not much anyone can do about it.

Anyway, Duane had his side of the story and he posted it front and center on his personal website: Neal robbed him of his credit. Yeah, like I would do that.

Thankfully, it's all over. And I do not have anything against Duane, even though we do not communicate. I wish him the best.

Takeda Shingen · 08-07-11, 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

Thankfully, it's all over. And I do not have anything against Duane, even though we do not communicate. I wish him the best.

You've always been a better man than I. Personally, I hope he stubbs his toe. A lot.

McBeck · 08-07-11, 08:45 AM

Hmmmm....even I was credited. I think you did all you could to give credit!

08-06-11, 02:42 PM	#3
RickC Sniper Undetectable Join Date: Sep 1999 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,221 Downloads: 132 Uploads: 0	I'll give it a try. Subsim created a sister site called SubClub in anticipation of the release of SHII. SHII promised interop play with Destroyer Command. (Subs attacking convoys....Destroyers protecting convoys. SHII however, was released in a bad state and the highly anticipated multiplay vs Destroyers was faulty and unacceptable. Neal, D. Doutel, myself and a few others were beta testers for the multiplayer aspect of the game just before SHII was released. Testing required coordination so we all hooked up via Yahoo voice chat before launching the games. Some of us in Subs, some in Destroyers. That is where I got to know Duane. Eventually, once it was realized the multiplay aspect was terribly flawed and it was apparant no patch to fix it was ever going to come, Neal convinced the company to release the code to him. Doutel was an out of work programmer and really believed he could fix the code, but he wanted some compensation. Neal arranged to have the code sent to him, and Subclub started a huge fundraiser, with what we raised going to Duane. The fundraiser and repair was named " Projekt Messerwetzer". Eventually, Duane did have a few successes regarding connectivity so he improved things slightly but never to the point of calling things "fixed". Eventually I think at some point he stopped working on it. Our fundraiser had run it's course so there was no more $$ being sent. Around that point, other members who were skilled programmers wanted to have a go at the code in an attempt to repair it. That is where things got a bit ugly. Duane was asked to release the code and he refused, believing the devs had released it to him and no one else. He broke off contact, and SubClub and Neal petitioned him to release the code, or at lease communicate further. Frustration is the best word I can think of to describe the whole thing. Neal stated above that it did not end well. A heck of an understatement. .......This is from memory (and a pretty old, worn out one) so Neal, if I stated something incorrectly please feel free to correct me. __________________ Support Subsim http://www.subsim.com/store.html Last edited by RickC Sniper; 08-07-11 at 01:29 PM.

08-06-11, 10:35 PM	#4
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	Rick, I think it's Duane, not Doug. Buuuuut, I came along just late enough to miss all that fun, but was around when Mr. Doutel started using the forums to attack everyone involved in the project, especially Neal. So yeah, it was ugly. We did have a lot of fun playing SH2 and DC, though. __________________ “Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo

08-06-11, 11:05 PM	#5
Onkel Neal Born to Run Silent Join Date: Jan 1997 Location: Cougar Trap, Texas Posts: 21,383 Downloads: 541 Uploads: 224	Rick, you got it pretty much right on. The real dealbreaker came with the publicity. I was working every angle I could to get press for this project. I worked to promote the project and Duane was prominently mentioned in all press releases. This is the press release that was sent to all journalists: http://9teuflottille.de/files/download/files/sh2-mod/pm103install_de.txt Three magazine articles, at least four newspaper articles, 27 websites, Tech TV, and one German TV program chronicled the effort and most mentioned Doutel by name. One magazine, however, did not print his name, just details about the project and where it could be found. It was Bill Trotter's PC Gamer article that disturbed Duane beyond belief. http://www.subsim.com/ssr/pcgamer_pmarticle.html Doutel began trying to coax Trotter into writing a follow up, that eventually turned into a stalking and aggresive harassment by e-mail. I learned there was a problem when Trotter called me on the phone to tell me to get Duane to back off. How bad was the harrassment? It was bad, unprofessional, and kind of scary. So bad, that Trotter eventually did write a follow up: Trotter got some of his details wrong too. As you saw, the press releases I sent him did mention Duane. And I did not actually say "Don't go out of your way to accomodate". I said, "If you cannot publish a follow-up or correction, it is ok, because Duane was credited in two other articles", and I said this *after* the article was published and Duane was barraging Trotter with demands to write another article. I was very happy that Trotter and PC Gamer mentioned the project at all, I wasn't about to rake them over the coals for not mentioning the programmer individually. I thought it was a bit too much of Duane to expect PC Gamer to write another article. You cannot tell game magazines what to do. Once it's printed there not much anyone can do about it. Anyway, Duane had his side of the story and he posted it front and center on his personal website: Neal robbed him of his credit. Yeah, like I would do that. Thankfully, it's all over. And I do not have anything against Duane, even though we do not communicate. I wish him the best. __________________ SUBSIM - 26 Years on the Web Last edited by Onkel Neal; 08-07-11 at 08:23 AM. Reason: fixed those pesky *8220;s again

08-07-11, 08:45 AM	#7
McBeck Admiral Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Denmark Posts: 2,027 Downloads: 15 Uploads: 0	Hmmmm....even I was credited. I think you did all you could to give credit! __________________ "I like subcommanders...they dont have time for bull**!" Proud member of the Subsim army of zombies Becks website