An important bug found in GWX?

[reaper7]

Originally Posted by TheBeast

Has anyone tried loading the SHIII AI_Sensors using GoblinEditorApp and verify if also wrong using that editor?

Great suggestion TheBeast never considered that. And here is the Results:



And this will be handy now to have another tool for the edit of SH3 dat files

Originally Posted by Kpt. Lehmann

A reminder: GWX enemy sensors are intended to be much more sensitive than Stock SH3. (Remember when you could pretty much surface your U-boat next to a destroyer... and shout at the enemy crew before they would be aware of your presence in Stock SH3?)

Just assuming for a moment that there is a bug, the implications are that it is a Stock SH3 bug. If this is true, it is not just a GWX problem as the title of this thread suggests... but everybody's problem also.

I'll look into it further as my time and situation permits.

So yes it is as Kpt. Lehmann posted S3D does indeed read the ennumerators in incorrectly showing the Text value for Sonar as Hydrophone and visa-versa.

This now proves that SH3 (All versions) are set up correctly for Hydrophone and Sonar entries

I shall remove the file above as this is now proved to be false and would have the incorrect results than that intended
Hope I didn't get everybody's hopes up by jumping on the bandwagon to soon without proper testing

[Volk2]

Originally Posted by Kpt. Lehmann

Just assuming for a moment that there is a bug, the implications are that it is a Stock SH3 bug. If this is true, it is not just a GWX problem as the title of this thread suggests... but everybody's problem also.

Yes, as the original poster said, he only discovered it by playing GWX, but if the problem is true (?) - it is global, not limited to one supermod.

[edit]
Oh, I didn't see the previous information of reaper7 - so it looks like there is no bug. Excuse the storm in a teacup

[Fubar2Niner]

Originally Posted by reaper7

Hope I didn't get everybody's hopes up by jumping on the bandwagon to soon without proper testing

Drat, drat and double drat........ darn you reaper, just as I was getting my hopes up ! Seems I'll never be rid of these pesky DD's

Best regards.

Fubar2Niner

[reaper7]

Originally Posted by Fubar2Niner

Drat, drat and double drat........ darn you reaper, just as I was getting my hopes up ! Seems I'll never be rid of these pesky DD's

Best regards.

Fubar2Niner

Know what you mean Mate I got all excited when I seen the Thread too, was sure we were on to a winner. Oh well -more evasive manoeuvres practice it is then

[Anvart]

Originally Posted by reaper7

Great suggestion TheBeast never considered that. And here is the Results...
...

Need to know SH3 engine and read the Dev's help... and will not need to buy SH5 to watch SH3 files.

Originally Posted by reaper7

So yes it is as Kpt. Lehmann posted S3D does indeed read the ennumerators in incorrectly showing the Text value for Sonar as Hydrophone and visa-versa.

Obviously the guy a little goofy ... and he does not understand the crux of the matter.

[vanjast]

With hindsite, I've always managed to escape the escorts and thought that this could not be a global problem..

[Kpt. Lehmann]

Well, all is well that ends well. I am sure that no one meant any harm.

Thanks again, Anvart! It is always good to see you!

[skwasjer]

@all, you can change the enum in S3D's controller template. <installdir>\controllers

Anvart indeed informed me a while ago, but I have not looked at S3D anymore since 2+ years. Perhaps privateer (he also posted updated controller templates for SH5) or Anvart can make the adjustments and post a fix for it.

[NGT]

@ Skwasjer

First, I will like to express, again, my gratitude for your marvelous tool. Thanks to this tool "everybody" can be a "moder", everybody can modulate his own supermod.


But, I am perplexed, after your post above.

If this error is so easy to be dressed by others, why you not do that, and by the way, release the version 1.0 of S3D.

I don’t remember other major problems, and after all, your site dedicated to this tool, is always active. This means that some how, you are around SH3, and your post here —yesterday— give proof of that.

Thank you.



(I hope you understand my English)

[skwasjer]

It's not the only issue that would need fixing in S3D, and there's a little bit more to it to provide an update.

And this is the thing, I don't care to spend any more time on S3D. That does not mean I don't come by every now and then (not very often though) to provide insights, feedback, help, where I can. But I am not touching S3D, my development programs or the game. The only program I bother with is the browser to read/reply to threads here. I am simply too tired with the game to do anything more...

PS: the site is just up for the sake of having a place to download S3D and read about it's history. But it has not been maintained either for almost 2 years

[Aces]

I understand mate, let me take the opportunity in personally thanking you for the S3ditor, I've had great fun using it and it's an invaluable tool for producing mods.

Kind regards

Aces

[rowi58]

As ACES posted,

it's time to say "thank you, skwasjer" for this great tool. And by the way - even if it is a little "bug": that don't matter.

Why? Neither SH3 nor SH4 are using sensors like "AI_Radar", "AI_Hydrophone" or "AI_Sonar", only the sensor "AI_Visual" is used in the SNS files. Al ship units have historical correct sensors on all sides - or NULL.

Greetings
rowi58

[Anvart]

Originally Posted by skwasjer

... or Anvart can make the adjustments and post a fix for it.

Better if author does it himself, i think.

Link to edited obj_Sensor.cs:
http://www.mediafire.com/download/5i...obj_Sensor.rar...
Copy this file into X:\Program Files\Silent 3ditor\Controllers\SHSim\ folder and overwrite existing file.

[skwasjer]

No need for thank you's. Many of you have done a great deal for the game too.

@Anvart, yes, it would be better but again, I don't 'want' to ;p. I'm done with S3D
Thx for the fix.

[Volk2]

The Polish modder - Olamagato - has understood that it was a bug in s3d, but as he said - it doesn't change the problem. So as I see now - he has repaired the sensors in some way, that I don't understand. Anyway, I thought it will be interesting.

Here is the table that shows comparison of stock SH3, GWX and Olamagato improved sensors (alpha):



And here a link to test alpha version:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4055585/GWXP...%20eskorty.zip

The last version of mod is - I suppose - here, inside a bigger mod:
http://ja.gram.pl/blog_wpis.asp?id=4756&n=19
but I cannot download it now, maybe later.

Here you can read google translation of forum posts:
http://translate.google.pl/translate...5%26start%3D20

And here is google translation of alpha test mod readme:

Mod improves the performance of detectors escort
---------------------------------------------

Cause of this fashion were observed inconsistencies in the behavior of the escort ships (with an attack on a submerged submarine) with relations submarine crews. GWX extension failed to correct this behavior, but only hindered attempts to avoid detection.
The tests (with a single compromising eskortowcem and selective detectors) showed that almost 100% of the detection is done by a hydrophone or sonar passive, very often in the posterior semi-zone eskortowca. Coverage hydrophone / sonar passive zone included a full 135 ° -135 .. without any restrictions as to the depth of the search target. It was enough that the goal was for 1 or 2 seconds in the range of the hydrophone (up to 7 km in GWX!) In low-impact and noise waves (calm sea) to become fully detected by an escort with no chance of loss of contact. This effect did not occur in the original SH3 because the range of default hydrophone was there to just 600m handicapped. GWX correct the manifest error causing an extremely high difficulty to avoid flooding. It boiled down to a random factor with a very low chance of success.
At the same time a marginal role in the discovery he was active sonar, which range scan boiled down to just 10 degrees vertically in front of semi-zone and required in practice to detect the full 40 seconds (red light) to track the depth of submarine periscopes (only). Apart from this narrow area of ***8203;***8203;the scan sonar eskortowca was practically blind. In the extreme case of active sonar Type 123A/128A goal to be detected had to be on for 20 seconds just to 48m/75m from eskortowca, at a depth of 10-15m. Such conditions could never be met for a moving warship escorts. Even at the border range sonar Type 123A (1200 yd.) Ship immersed to a depth below 212 m was completely safe from any chance of being detected by sonar.

That the game was in clear contradiction with the manual for GWX 3.0 - both with a description of the detectors as well as ways to avoid the escorts described in the Appendix.

This amendment eliminates these problems by reducing the possibility of a real submarine detection by passive sonar hydrophone and escorts, and a significant increase in the possibility of active sonar - in accordance with the historical realities and the manual for GWX 3.0.

Changes
------
- Extended detection time was excessive noise or sonar reflections from 1 to 3 seconds up to 130-170m, and from 2 to 6 seconds up to 6,5-9,5 km.
- The default sensitivity of passive devices has been reduced to the minimum value of 0.01 and most of the passive sonar to 0.02, which reduced the coverage zone of rapid detection by half (140-190 m depending on the thighs device).
- Was introduced level temperature inversion layer depth of water, which in GWX and SH3 was at sea level (0 m).
- Deterioration factor hydrophone scanning from too much speed namierzaj***261;cego ship was restored with 20 nodes (in GWX) to 15 knots true (as in SH3). This index to rise slightly to the already abnormally high efficiency scanning hydrophone / passive sonar.
- Reduced Vertical angles were scanned hydrophone / s.pasywnego from 80-170 degrees (only without the 10 degrees from vertical) to a maximum of 90-135 degrees depending on the severity of passive sonar. Hydrophones scan angles of 90-115 degrees now means covering the 0-250 m depth already at a distance of 536 m from eskortowca.
- Was introduced to the minimum area ratio of a submarine to detect both the hydrophone and sonar. It is for hydrophone less than 90 m ^ 2, and for the sonar less than 60 m ^ 2 In practice, this makes it difficult to detect the U-boat just rotated almost exactly the bow or stern to the scan. Full lateral surface of the U-boat type VII is more than 360 m ^ 2
- The maximum ranges of active sonar have been converted from yards to meters.
- Default Active sonar has ceased to be blind than 100 m from the target. Limit was 10 m just like any other passive sonar.
- The horizontal angle of the cone were urealnione active sonar from the original 180 sec for the cone angle of 70-130 degrees of active sonar default has been reduced to 60 deg
- The vertical angle of the cone active sonar have been enlarged to historical values: 90-155 deg
- Introduced a minimum area ratio was scanned on a submarine range 30-60 m ^ 2 This simulates the reflection of leaky beam sonar from the bow or stern of the submarine.
- Increased sensitivity coefficients were active sonar to 0.2-0.5, which accurately scan area increased to 273-455m from eskortowca depending on the type of sonar.
- Was reduced by half (to 0.3) coefficient of wave impact on the quality of the active sonar detection.
- Loss of time lead was reduced from 30 to 20 seconds.

Olamagato

If the translation is rubbish in some place (well, it's rubbish mostly), say, and I will translate that place better.