Ever destroy a ship with all hands?

[Mouftic]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

I am quite the doubter myself. I don't trust myself, and I don't trust any source. I once asked the question of whether Thomas Jefferson really wrote our Declaration of Independence in 1776. After all, I have no direct proof of that either. Sure, it's been around as long as I can remember, but before that? I accept it at face value solely because I have no reason not to. But beyond that? I want proof for everything, including my own existence. I don't believe anything until it's absolutely, undeniably proven.

But that's just me.

Well, it seems that whatever I give you for proof will never be good enough unless it's a documented video of the events with the number of the hull number cleary visible.
I mean you can't just go around and say "nope it didn't happen that way..." unless you yourself have proof of the contrary, which by you standard is almost impossible. The "proofs" you showed me are far from proofs by your standard.

It's has if I said "fighter pilots had parachutes in their planes." and your response would be, "That can't be proven. Can you prove to me that so and so had a parachute with him?" Certainly not, but we all know it because it is common knowledge.

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Granted, some of that is true. Is it all. I'm not claiming it didn't happen, just that your use of the word "normally" is without merit.

Why are you so stuck on the word "normally". Let's see the definition:

nor·mal
[nawr-muhl]
–adjective 1. conforming to the standard or the common type; usual; not abnormal; regular; natural.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/normal

So I think that the word normal does applies here. Because it was not abnormal and it was usual. We could even push it to regular. So i think the word 'normally' does have a merit.
If we can also put a standard in numbers it would be 60%. Here in the province of Quebec, as a student if you have an average of 60% you are in the norm.
Some provinces have 50% has the norm, but even me, would not call that normal.

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Most"? You're generalizing. Unless every single case is examined there is no way to know, and if you have to make assumptions it's always better to assume something didn't happen than that it did.

We are talking about sinkings. In the first 6 examples of you withouts, 3 of the ships didn't even sink. I even researched some of them and looking by the extensive damage to the aft of the vessel, I'm pretty sure the depth charges that were there 'did' exploded.
Hey, but again I'm speculating, right.
http://www.warmuseum.ca/cwm/exhibiti...&id=193&page=8

The discussion we are having is about sinkings.

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

[quoted]Although the facts I showed you cannot be denied because they are clearly stated.[/quoted]
No, statements given without proof are not facts, just claims.

They are from veterans who were there, but I guess they forgot to film the event. So yes they are just statements.

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

A little bit about myself. I have a very long history (30+ years) of dealing with gamers who constantly want to change rules because of one thing they read somewhere, and a fairly long history here of watching people come up with all kinds of reasons why this or that thing should be changed or "fixed" in one of these games.

I am not trying to change rules, I was just saying that in all the sinkings I had none came with all hands lost. Merely an observation.

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

You said that "normally frigates would have a high death rate because of the size of the ship containaing so much explosives"

Yes, and I am still claiming it.

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Normally they did not have such a high death rate.

Wrong, I showed you that almost 75% of the crew were lost. And then again you agreed with me.

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Yes, you showed examples of all hands being lost, but there are many more examples of a low death rate.

I never said that all hand lost was normal.

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Second was the depth charge explosions. Yes, it happened, but you need to show that it happened more often than not, or "normally doesn't apply.

This is the initial quote I gave that you questionned: "Yeah, and normally frigates would have a high death rate because of the size of the ship containaing so much explosives, and even worst if the ship sank and the depth charges were not set to safe mode."

Now you are trying to say that I said depth charges explosions were normal.

I said:"Yeah, and normally frigates would have a high death" and then mentionned why.

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

And again you're making this personal. It's not.

Sorry, I don't understand why you say that.

I'm just saying that your position or wording is changing throught the tread.

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

I challenged your statement. That's not the same as questioning you.

You are not challenging it, you said "nope". Thats more like saying that I am wrong.

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

I do believe in books, but I expect the authors not to make unsubstantiated claims. If you accept those claims without questioning, then maybe you need to be more careful.

How can you be sure his sources are right? I am not sure that when you read a book, you go check every sources the author stated now.

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Something you consider "common knowledge" may be nothing of the kind.

See the pilots with parachutes above.

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

You think wrong. If you can show positively that it happened more often than not you'll be surprised how quickly I apologize. If you think otherwise then you haven't read many of my threads.

Of course I think you are wrong and I will say it again:"normally frigates would have a high death rate because of the size of the ship containaing so much explosives, and even worst if the ship sank and the depth charges were not set to safe mode."


With all that discussion about big explosions and depth charges talking, I am very tempted to research the subject myself. Another project in queue.