Neutrals are supposed to be NEUTRAL

[Axeman3d]

I just sank my first neutral ship, on what is quickly turning into the worst patrol ever. I was off the Azores at my patrol point and found zilch, so headed over to Gibralta to catch any traffic coming out of the Med. I chased a convoy heading north and sank a couple of ships for 6 shots fired (boo) and then got slapped about by the escorts, so turned back to Gib to look for stragglers. On a moonless night out sails a darkened large merchant with no lights, and there's no way I can see his flag even in the external camera. One torp under his keel and he eventually sank, but it turned out he was Spanish. Why no lights, the bloody idiot!

[STEED]

I sunk a neutral today in broad daylight on a calm sea in a convoy. Not my fault the bloody moron decided to turn straight in to my T1 ell which was on its way to hit a large tanker.

Man I was...

[papa_smurf]

Originally Posted by STEED

I sunk a neutral today in broad daylight on a calm sea in a convoy. Not my fault the bloody moron decided to turn straight in to my T1 ell which was on its way to hit a large tanker.

Man I was...

Keep telling yourself that once you get back to report to Herr Doenitz

[Tinman764]

So If I want to edit my basic.cfg to allow me to sink neutrals (for immersion purposes only of course!) what lines shoud I edit?

RenownReachGridObjCompleted=0
RenownPatrolGridObjCompleted=0
CompletedPatrol=0
NEUTRAL=-1
ALLIED=1
AXIS=-10
WrongShipSunk=-5000
FirstRankRenown=100
SecondRankRenown=350
EndCampaign=-5000

Set Neutral=0, or WrongShipSunk=0 ?

Cheers!

[K-61]

Yes, that's it. I edit mine to read "1." My rationale is that neutrals carrying cargo to Britain are a legitimate target, because they are in a British guarded convoy. I do not use this hack to sink just any neutral simply for the purpose of running up tonnage scores.

[Gargamel]

Originally Posted by K-61

Yes, that's it. I edit mine to read "1." My rationale is that neutrals carrying cargo to Britain are a legitimate target, because they are in a British guarded convoy. I do not use this hack to sink just any neutral simply for the purpose of running up tonnage scores.

Valid argument there, as the ROE stated that. But they're still neutral, so would possibly making it like .5 or .25 work? I just ask cause I'd be worried about not using whole numbers.

[Sailor Steve]

I use 0, for the simple reason that it discourages me from even thinking about it. I also reduced friendlies to -1, because the few times it did happen the kaleun was always exonerated.

[Tessa]

Originally Posted by K-61

Yes, that's it. I edit mine to read "1." My rationale is that neutrals carrying cargo to Britain are a legitimate target, because they are in a British guarded convoy. I do not use this hack to sink just any neutral simply for the purpose of running up tonnage scores.

If you are truly honest with yourself, and choose to fire on neutral targets in situations where they would considered combatants (in a convoy or escorted by warships) and only choosing legitimate targets using '1' would be quite justified. There are times when the neutral ships was definitely acting as a belligerent and would have been considered a valid target; the rub is being honest with yourself not to abuse it and only fire on neutral targets in such situations that would have warranted getting credit for them.

Problem still lies that if you do sink a neutral on accident you'll get credit for it. As Steve points out using a '0' is a better alternative for most people; with that setting you get the same kind of results as those who did accidently sink neutrals in the war - no credit. The only negative point you suffer is the loss of the torpedos used to sink the ship. When you run into a convoy on your return home you'll really want those eels back that were expended on the neutral ship to use on real targets.

[vergol]

Originally Posted by Axeman3d

On a moonless night out sails a darkened large merchant with no lights, and there's no way I can see his flag even in the external camera. One torp under his keel and he eventually sank, but it turned out he was Spanish. Why no lights, the bloody idiot!

I recall reading somewhere that the game pre-generates the spawn list of all the ships you can encounter when you initially start a patrol. So if a country switches from neutral to enemy status during the patrol, the game may not register that until you get back to port. Thus you may see lit enemy ships or even dark neutral ships.

Feel free to correct me.

[Gargamel]

Originally Posted by vergol

I recall reading somewhere that the game pre-generates the spawn list of all the ships you can encounter when you initially start a patrol. So if a country switches from neutral to enemy status during the patrol, the game may not register that until you get back to port. Thus you may see lit enemy ships or even dark neutral ships.

Feel free to correct me.

That may be true, but unless I'm mistaken, Spain stayed Neutral throughout the war. No reason for a Spanish ship not to look like the Las Veags strip.

[Axeman3d]

That's what I thought. Spain were technically neutral throughout the war, even though Franco had ties with Hitler going way back. Why no lights?

[Jack Cutter]

Originally Posted by Axeman3d

That's what I thought. Spain were technically neutral throughout the war, even though Franco had ties with Hitler going way back. Why no lights?

I too have sunk Spanish ships in game. I was patrolling near the upper coasts of Africa when I recieved sighting reports of two merchant ships. It was a dark rainy night (all stories are good with that added ) and I was shocked at how large both ships where. I could see them in the dip of the horizon without my binos. I was practically frothing at the mouth, since there where no escorts. I raced ahead at full, and closed the distance to about 2K meters, and still couldn't verify their flags, but I knew there were both large tankers and still no escorts in sight!

I grew tired of trying to see their flags, and nothing was lit up. That was the only bit of info I felt I needed. So I fired all forward tubes. Two eels headed straight to each tanker...and happily all four ran true and exploded nicely...

And then their search lights went on, and those ships lit up like Christmas trees! Those jerks even had the audacity to finally swivel their spot lights to light up their flags....I couldn't believe it...they ran dark until it was too late, AND THEN shone lights on their flags....One ship sank, the other was lucky and limped off severely damaged... just like my Kaleun's career.

I found it highly odd that two large unescorted spanish tankers near africa would be running dark... until AFTER I attacked them.

Perhaps all these neutrals running around without lights on are really just ships packed with their respective countrys' dregs of society...lol

[Tessa]

Historically neutrals were sometimes subject to enforced blackouts depending on where they sailing around. This mostly applied to the America's were the most neutral ships were sunk (in the shortest period of time) due to an enforced blackout rule for any shis sailing in or between certain area's at night. Several Brazillian ships were mistakenly sunk and Mexican ships (afterwards the Mexico which was neutral flipped sides to the allies after feeling betrayed for being neutral, Brazil wasn't exactly happy either) as well. Inside a port though or alone at sea I've yet to see a neutral not properly lit up.

Sinking a hospital ship is nothing but pure bad karma. There's a good chance many of your own country's casualties may be on board. Even in poor weather those things are lit up like Christmas Tree's, something so large so well lit up is probably not doing so for the sake of trying to be stealthy; its doing everything short of keying down the radio and screaming out Hospital Ship!

[Jack Cutter]

Originally Posted by Tessa

Historically neutrals were sometimes subject to enforced blackouts depending on where they sailing around. This mostly applied to the America's were the most neutral ships were sunk (in the shortest period of time) due to an enforced blackout rule for any shis sailing in or between certain area's at night. Several Brazillian ships were mistakenly sunk and Mexican ships (afterwards the Mexico which was neutral flipped sides to the allies after feeling betrayed for being neutral, Brazil wasn't exactly happy either) as well. Inside a port though or alone at sea I've yet to see a neutral not properly lit up.

Sinking a hospital ship is nothing but pure bad karma. There's a good chance many of your own country's casualties may be on board. Even in poor weather those things are lit up like Christmas Tree's, something so large so well lit up is probably not doing so for the sake of trying to be stealthy; its doing everything short of keying down the radio and screaming out Hospital Ship!

LOL. Maybe they should install some mega phones and try screaming that out every 5 mins. Being on that post for an eight hour duration would suck...
Does GWX actually feature hospital ships? I haven't been playing it for very long, but I haven't seen any around. Are they only in a certain area?

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Axeman3d

That's what I thought. Spain were technically neutral throughout the war, even though Franco had ties with Hitler going way back. Why no lights?

Because the lighted ships are a separate type, and the lights are tied directly to that type. The game assigns flags randomly. The two different concepts cannot be reconciled within the limitations of the game.