Neutrals are supposed to be NEUTRAL

STEED · 12-18-10, 03:48 PM

I sunk a neutral today in broad daylight on a calm sea in a convoy. Not my fault the bloody moron decided to turn straight in to my T1 ell which was on its way to hit a large tanker.

Man I was...

papa_smurf · 12-20-10, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by STEED

I sunk a neutral today in broad daylight on a calm sea in a convoy. Not my fault the bloody moron decided to turn straight in to my T1 ell which was on its way to hit a large tanker.

Man I was...

Keep telling yourself that once you get back to report to Herr Doenitz

Tinman764 · 12-20-10, 06:06 PM

So If I want to edit my basic.cfg to allow me to sink neutrals (for immersion purposes only of course!) what lines shoud I edit?

RenownReachGridObjCompleted=0
RenownPatrolGridObjCompleted=0
CompletedPatrol=0
NEUTRAL=-1
ALLIED=1
AXIS=-10
WrongShipSunk=-5000
FirstRankRenown=100
SecondRankRenown=350
EndCampaign=-5000

Set Neutral=0, or WrongShipSunk=0 ?

Cheers!

K-61 · 12-20-10, 06:25 PM

Yes, that's it. I edit mine to read "1." My rationale is that neutrals carrying cargo to Britain are a legitimate target, because they are in a British guarded convoy. I do not use this hack to sink just any neutral simply for the purpose of running up tonnage scores.

Gargamel · 12-20-10, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by K-61

Yes, that's it. I edit mine to read "1." My rationale is that neutrals carrying cargo to Britain are a legitimate target, because they are in a British guarded convoy. I do not use this hack to sink just any neutral simply for the purpose of running up tonnage scores.

Valid argument there, as the ROE stated that. But they're still neutral, so would possibly making it like .5 or .25 work? I just ask cause I'd be worried about not using whole numbers.

Sailor Steve · 12-20-10, 06:37 PM

I use 0, for the simple reason that it discourages me from even thinking about it. I also reduced friendlies to -1, because the few times it did happen the kaleun was always exonerated.

Tinman764 · 12-20-10, 06:48 PM

What does the WrongShipSunk=-5000 line do?

Reason I ask is, having started a new career with the 7th using GWX, you are ordered to sink the ships in the bay and await further orders.
The ships are British and the date is proir to Britain joining the war. I've done this mission twice and both times I was fired on and sunk by friendlies on returning to port.

12-20-10, 06:56 PM

There is no right way to play. Obviously it's a personal issue how one wishes to treat neutrals but to advocate for the status quo, that is a renown loss for sinking non-belligerents, consider this:

Even towards the end of the war the Reich Foriegn Office was trying very hard to keep additions from the list of Germany's enemies. Sinking neutral shipping was no help in this at all and indeed, attacks on neutrals frequently resulted in the victim's country taking some sort of diplomatic action against Germany over the long run or in a manner not to Germany's advantage. Spain's Franco certainly exploited the loss of Spanish ships to U-Boats to the Nazi's detriment as did Portugal, Brazil and before December 10 1941, the biggest neutral of them all, the USA.

So if the flotilla commander or even BdU signed off on sinking a neutral ship, it is unlikely you would be making many friends in high places.

In the late war one seldom has the luxury to actually identify the nationality of the target. If I get home and learn that I sank a Swede or Mexican, I have no issue with taking the renown hit imposed by GWX3.

Tessa · 12-20-10, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by K-61

Yes, that's it. I edit mine to read "1." My rationale is that neutrals carrying cargo to Britain are a legitimate target, because they are in a British guarded convoy. I do not use this hack to sink just any neutral simply for the purpose of running up tonnage scores.

If you are truly honest with yourself, and choose to fire on neutral targets in situations where they would considered combatants (in a convoy or escorted by warships) and only choosing legitimate targets using '1' would be quite justified. There are times when the neutral ships was definitely acting as a belligerent and would have been considered a valid target; the rub is being honest with yourself not to abuse it and only fire on neutral targets in such situations that would have warranted getting credit for them.

Problem still lies that if you do sink a neutral on accident you'll get credit for it. As Steve points out using a '0' is a better alternative for most people; with that setting you get the same kind of results as those who did accidently sink neutrals in the war - no credit. The only negative point you suffer is the loss of the torpedos used to sink the ship. When you run into a convoy on your return home you'll really want those eels back that were expended on the neutral ship to use on real targets.

12-18-10, 03:48 PM	#1
STEED Lucky Jack Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Down Town UK Posts: 27,695 Downloads: 89 Uploads: 48	I sunk a neutral today in broad daylight on a calm sea in a convoy. Not my fault the bloody moron decided to turn straight in to my T1 ell which was on its way to hit a large tanker. Man I was... __________________ Dr Who rest in peace 1963-2017. To borrow Davros saying...I NAME YOU CHIBNALL THE DESTROYER OF DR WHO YOU KILLED IT!

12-20-10, 06:25 PM	#4
K-61 Grey Wolf Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Ontario Posts: 795 Downloads: 39 Uploads: 0	Yes, that's it. I edit mine to read "1." My rationale is that neutrals carrying cargo to Britain are a legitimate target, because they are in a British guarded convoy. I do not use this hack to sink just any neutral simply for the purpose of running up tonnage scores. __________________

12-20-10, 06:37 PM	#6
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	I use 0, for the simple reason that it discourages me from even thinking about it. I also reduced friendlies to -1, because the few times it did happen the kaleun was always exonerated. __________________ “Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo

12-20-10, 06:06 PM	#3
Tinman764 Chief Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: U-32's Wintergarten Posts: 325 Downloads: 182 Uploads: 0	So If I want to edit my basic.cfg to allow me to sink neutrals (for immersion purposes only of course!) what lines shoud I edit? RenownReachGridObjCompleted=0 RenownPatrolGridObjCompleted=0 CompletedPatrol=0 NEUTRAL=-1 ALLIED=1 AXIS=-10 WrongShipSunk=-5000 FirstRankRenown=100 SecondRankRenown=350 EndCampaign=-5000 Set Neutral=0, or WrongShipSunk=0 ? Cheers!

12-20-10, 06:48 PM	#7
Tinman764 Chief Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: U-32's Wintergarten Posts: 325 Downloads: 182 Uploads: 0	What does the WrongShipSunk=-5000 line do? Reason I ask is, having started a new career with the 7th using GWX, you are ordered to sink the ships in the bay and await further orders. The ships are British and the date is proir to Britain joining the war. I've done this mission twice and both times I was fired on and sunk by friendlies on returning to port.

12-20-10, 06:56 PM	#8
Randomizer Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	There is no right way to play. Obviously it's a personal issue how one wishes to treat neutrals but to advocate for the status quo, that is a renown loss for sinking non-belligerents, consider this: Even towards the end of the war the Reich Foriegn Office was trying very hard to keep additions from the list of Germany's enemies. Sinking neutral shipping was no help in this at all and indeed, attacks on neutrals frequently resulted in the victim's country taking some sort of diplomatic action against Germany over the long run or in a manner not to Germany's advantage. Spain's Franco certainly exploited the loss of Spanish ships to U-Boats to the Nazi's detriment as did Portugal, Brazil and before December 10 1941, the biggest neutral of them all, the USA. So if the flotilla commander or even BdU signed off on sinking a neutral ship, it is unlikely you would be making many friends in high places. In the late war one seldom has the luxury to actually identify the nationality of the target. If I get home and learn that I sank a Swede or Mexican, I have no issue with taking the renown hit imposed by GWX3.