THE Ultimate Animation of Crew Thread

Hans Witteman · 11-09-10, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by divingbluefrog

Hi,

It works great with MeshAnimationData. But did you also succeed with MeshAnimationData2?

By the way, I'm struggling for a while now with a correlated problem.
I can't export the mesh Body01 with S3D without loosing a lot of vts. The original mesh has 15206 vts. Roughly, 1751 faces connected to more than 5000 Vts (3 vts by face) and this for the three channels thus the 15000 vts. I suspect this unusual cut-out to be tied to the internal process of MeshAnimationData2.
When opening the obj files, vertices and faces are OK, but I ended up with only 1216 vts for the main and uv2 files and 1285 for the uv3 file.
Of course, reimporting this mesh in Body01.dat goes to a wracked mesh in game.
I've deciphered 90% of the internal structure of the model chunk and until now I've found nothing wrong.
Any hints will be welcome...

Hi divingbluefrog,

I would like to know what is the difference between the two MeshAnimationData and MeshAnimationData02?

Best regards Hans

divingbluefrog · 11-09-10, 02:04 PM

Hi Hans,

Well, it's near to the 1 million $ question...
MeshAnimationData2 is the type of animations used mainly by the crew, as on the coning tower during watch.
You can find them for example in POSW.anm. I'm able to import them in a .dat file and they indeed show in S3D. That's how I found that the first in the previous file was the one that is called when a watchman fines tune his binoculars. But once imported, I get the associated wracked mesh, thefore my question to Privateer.
I've finished with the structure of the model chunk, and there is something disturbing with the way it handles the uv3 vts.

Hans Witteman · 11-10-10, 02:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by divingbluefrog

Hi Hans,

Well, it's near to the 1 million $ question...
MeshAnimationData2 is the type of animations used mainly by the crew, as on the coning tower during watch.
You can find them for example in POSW.anm. I'm able to import them in a .dat file and they indeed show in S3D. That's how I found that the first in the previous file was the one that is called when a watchman fines tune his binoculars. But once imported, I get the associated wracked mesh, thefore my question to Privateer.
I've finished with the structure of the model chunk, and there is something disturbing with the way it handles the uv3 vts.

Hi again divingbluefrog,

Yes i understand some controllers are still to identify correctly, what baffling me is that even if i pull one single vertices on any body or head we got the same wacky mesh in game, normally since i was teaching animation and morphing then changing one vertex won't screw the animation if the amount of vertices remain unchanged.

So my guess so far would be that a kind of a shell exist in an ACT file that identify the mesh integrity so finding that shell trigger could lead to success. In a word we need to find a way to lure the game engine to identify our new mesh as the original one.

Let's team on this and i am convinced we will succeed, for the moment i am pretty busy finishing my own mod and it is a hell of a task for single man but the minute i will have spare time i will focus on crew animation i would love to be able to do it because i can animate anything professionally i am in the field since the early beginning under DOS.

Best regards Hans

Anvart · 11-10-10, 04:59 AM

IIRC, MeshAnimationData2 has been conceived for characters...
MeshAnimationData - for other objects...
... the difference is that MeshAnimationData2 has two frames with the number 0 and with the same vertexes coordinates... i think, for the better pairing of sequence of different animations for the characters.
***
Added.
The cause of violations of the mesh during character animation (after export/import of character's model using S3D) is to optimize UV-coordinates (vt), S3D makes it automatically... see:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...&postcount=552
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...&postcount=554

Pak3D does not optimizes UV-coordinates therefore this problem is absent... but there are many other problems...

Hans Witteman · 11-10-10, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anvart

IIRC, MeshAnimationData2 has been conceived for characters...
MeshAnimationData - for other objects...

Hi Anvart,

Thank mate for the clarification on this controller but what would be really helpful for the community is a list of what controllers are usable for modding sh3 i look at all of them and some i think are not usable via S3D editor i might be wrong but i would like to know the one that work.

Best regards Hans

11-10-10, 09:12 PM

Export the MeshAnimationData2 rawchunk.
Open it with a Hex editor.
Change the SubType from 0X8005 to 0x5.
So change the hex values 0580 at address 1C
to 0500

Now import to the dat.
S3D now sees it as MeshAnimationData and exports properly.

divingbluefrog · 11-11-10, 05:43 AM

You're right. It works fine. I should have imported it on an already modified mesh. My bad.
Hex editing the mesh, I can delete the third channel and import it back. No problem in game. Of course it's always easier to cut than to modify, but it's a first step.
The bad news is that Blender wracks the .obj produced by S3D.

Anvart · 11-11-10, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hans Witteman

Hi Anvart,

Thank mate for the clarification on this controller but what would be really helpful for the community is a list of what controllers are usable for modding sh3 i look at all of them and some i think are not usable via S3D editor i might be wrong but i would like to know the one that work.

Best regards Hans

Hi, Hans.
I think Skwasjer already have answered your question... and has made it on good English...

Hans Witteman · 11-11-10, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anvart

Hi, Hans.
I think Skwasjer already have answered your question... and has made it on good English...

Hi Anvart,

No problem mate i think your English is enough clear for me i am not so good either in English

Best regards Hans

divingbluefrog · 11-10-10, 05:57 AM

Obviously I'm not as much skilled in animations as you are

but I can deal with basic ones.
There are three points that should light bips on our board.
- First, why put 15000 vt in a mesh if the model only use 4000 of them?
- Second and more disturbing : it seems that MeshAnimationData2 is not fully tied to the model. I made the following test : after having imported the animation in a .dat file and gotten the "classic" behavior, I kept the animation but changed the 3D model to something totally different, the pescarus mesh indeed. And the mesh got animated! It looked like nothing but nonetheless the mesh moved!
That leads me to think that MeshanimationData2 acts perhaps more like a filter for a mesh "prepared" to it.
- Third, MeshAnimationData is called inside a <notset> node but MeshAnimationData2 is called inside a MeshAnimation node. What is the true nature of the MeshAnimation controller?
A lot of questions, so few answers...But as said, we are just at the beginning of the process...

Ironically, animations aren't my main goal. At the end of August, I began a project that I had in mind for a long time. A pause in my current career was the opportunity to start. I didn't know I was opening the Pandora box. From one problem to another, I ended up Hex editing crew meshes...

I don't doubt that your TypeII will match the quality of the torpedo designed for it, so it's worth waiting...

skwasjer · 11-11-10, 08:27 AM

MeshAnimationData2 is technically identical to MeshAnimationData. The import sequence in S3D is the same. The only difference is a bitflag in the first section of the data (look at privateer's post above 0x5), and as previously stated seems to be used for crew. I needed to make this a seperate controller in S3D to support this bitflag but it in fact is the same controller in game. The game knows the difference only because of that flag.

skwasjer · 11-11-10, 08:29 AM

Another tip is you can also simply copy/paste the chunk, so unless you need a rawchunk for hexeditting purposes, I suggest do the easy way and just CTRL+C/CTRL+V

skwasjer · 11-11-10, 08:31 AM

You can drop uv3 channel. It is not needed, nor is 4th channel. Only the first channel (diffuse) is required and the 2nd is optional (occlude).

11-10-10, 04:59 AM	#4
Anvart Admiral Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Russia ® Posts: 2,492 Downloads: 122 Uploads: 1	IIRC, MeshAnimationData2 has been conceived for characters... MeshAnimationData - for other objects... ... the difference is that MeshAnimationData2 has two frames with the number 0 and with the same vertexes coordinates... i think, for the better pairing of sequence of different animations for the characters. *** Added. The cause of violations of the mesh during character animation (after export/import of character's model using S3D) is to optimize UV-coordinates (vt), S3D makes it automatically... see: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...&postcount=552 http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...&postcount=554 Pak3D does not optimizes UV-coordinates therefore this problem is absent... but there are many other problems... __________________ Alex ® Moses said: "Don't create yourself an idol"... Last edited by Anvart; 03-01-12 at 12:37 AM.

11-11-10, 08:27 AM	#11
skwasjer The Old Man Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Netherlands Posts: 1,549 Downloads: 28 Uploads: 3	MeshAnimationData2 is technically identical to MeshAnimationData. The import sequence in S3D is the same. The only difference is a bitflag in the first section of the data (look at privateer's post above 0x5), and as previously stated seems to be used for crew. I needed to make this a seperate controller in S3D to support this bitflag but it in fact is the same controller in game. The game knows the difference only because of that flag. __________________ S3D - Silent 3ditor (v0.9.9) - S3D homepage - Open sourced S3D file parser API's - SUBSIM thread SH5 mods: Speech Recognition for SH5 \| Digital UI Clock Tutorials: [TEC] Import/export 3D models to/from game using S3D [TEC] How to work with the model viewer in S3D - VIDEO

11-11-10, 08:29 AM	#12
skwasjer The Old Man Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Netherlands Posts: 1,549 Downloads: 28 Uploads: 3	Another tip is you can also simply copy/paste the chunk, so unless you need a rawchunk for hexeditting purposes, I suggest do the easy way and just CTRL+C/CTRL+V __________________ S3D - Silent 3ditor (v0.9.9) - S3D homepage - Open sourced S3D file parser API's - SUBSIM thread SH5 mods: Speech Recognition for SH5 \| Digital UI Clock Tutorials: [TEC] Import/export 3D models to/from game using S3D [TEC] How to work with the model viewer in S3D - VIDEO

11-11-10, 08:31 AM	#13
skwasjer The Old Man Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Netherlands Posts: 1,549 Downloads: 28 Uploads: 3	You can drop uv3 channel. It is not needed, nor is 4th channel. Only the first channel (diffuse) is required and the 2nd is optional (occlude). __________________ S3D - Silent 3ditor (v0.9.9) - S3D homepage - Open sourced S3D file parser API's - SUBSIM thread SH5 mods: Speech Recognition for SH5 \| Digital UI Clock Tutorials: [TEC] Import/export 3D models to/from game using S3D [TEC] How to work with the model viewer in S3D - VIDEO

11-09-10, 02:04 PM	#2
divingbluefrog Medic Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 164 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 1	Hi Hans, Well, it's near to the 1 million $ question... MeshAnimationData2 is the type of animations used mainly by the crew, as on the coning tower during watch. You can find them for example in POSW.anm. I'm able to import them in a .dat file and they indeed show in S3D. That's how I found that the first in the previous file was the one that is called when a watchman fines tune his binoculars. But once imported, I get the associated wracked mesh, thefore my question to Privateer. I've finished with the structure of the model chunk, and there is something disturbing with the way it handles the uv3 vts.

11-10-10, 09:12 PM	#6
Madox58 Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	Export the MeshAnimationData2 rawchunk. Open it with a Hex editor. Change the SubType from 0X8005 to 0x5. So change the hex values 0580 at address 1C to 0500 Now import to the dat. S3D now sees it as MeshAnimationData and exports properly.

11-11-10, 05:43 AM	#7
divingbluefrog Medic Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 164 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 1	You're right. It works fine. I should have imported it on an already modified mesh. My bad. Hex editing the mesh, I can delete the third channel and import it back. No problem in game. Of course it's always easier to cut than to modify, but it's a first step. The bad news is that Blender wracks the .obj produced by S3D.

11-10-10, 05:57 AM	#10
divingbluefrog Medic Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 164 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 1	Obviously I'm not as much skilled in animations as you are but I can deal with basic ones. There are three points that should light bips on our board. - First, why put 15000 vt in a mesh if the model only use 4000 of them? - Second and more disturbing : it seems that MeshAnimationData2 is not fully tied to the model. I made the following test : after having imported the animation in a .dat file and gotten the "classic" behavior, I kept the animation but changed the 3D model to something totally different, the pescarus mesh indeed. And the mesh got animated! It looked like nothing but nonetheless the mesh moved! That leads me to think that MeshanimationData2 acts perhaps more like a filter for a mesh "prepared" to it. - Third, MeshAnimationData is called inside a <notset> node but MeshAnimationData2 is called inside a MeshAnimation node. What is the true nature of the MeshAnimation controller? A lot of questions, so few answers...But as said, we are just at the beginning of the process... Ironically, animations aren't my main goal. At the end of August, I began a project that I had in mind for a long time. A pause in my current career was the opportunity to start. I didn't know I was opening the Pandora box. From one problem to another, I ended up Hex editing crew meshes... I don't doubt that your TypeII will match the quality of the torpedo designed for it, so it's worth waiting...