[TEC] The future of S3D / DAT-file format

[skwasjer]

Since I've indicated I will (likely) release an updated to S3D, and some people are trying to make S3D work (read: mod) with the new data built on top of SH4's DAT-file format I will make this new thread here in the SH5 section. This thread is to ask anyone of you to publish any info you have found regarding the file format, any customization you made to S3D's controller templates, etc. and perhaps even a wishlist for the next installment of S3D.

Provided enough info is gathered, and alot of prework is done, this saves me from having to work on S3D all by myself, something I can no longer do like I have in the past. I will take any info you have, and consider any question/tip. Remember that the more you help out, the more likely development on S3D will be continued, as a (partial) replacement for the Goblin editor, a tool that lacks in many departments.

At least privateer has done quite a few modifications already (here and there with my help), and I hope more of you can help out. Obviously, you will receive credit for your efforts, as many users and other modders will benefit from your support.

If you have (technical) questions or need pointers related to S3D or hex, you can also ask them here. Me or privateer or someone else may be able to answer.

Perhaps privateer can post the links to all his S3D-mods, so I can copy them in the first post.

[skwasjer]

Reserved for explanation of controller templates.

[SteelViking]

First of all, thank you very much for even considering further development of S3D so that it can be used to work on SH5.

Sadly, I cannot give too much technical help, but I can definitely think of things that would be very helpful to future modding of SH5. The one thing that I would like to be able to do the most, would be to add nodes in S3D. Goblin is fully capable of adding controllers for particle generators and the like, however, it does not have the ability of adding nodes themselves. As it stands, if you add a node in S3D, and use Goblin to add a controller to it(a particle generator for instance) and save, upon reopening that file, the controller will be lost and will no longer function(this is what happens when you don't assign a parent ID, and I would expect this really). However, when you assign a parent ID, Goblin will simply CTD upon opening the file. If there is a way around this known already, please let me know about it.

Of course, I would also like for S3D to be able to open GR2 files, I know we cannot alter them, but they lead me to the next item on my wish list. Exporting of 3D objects, and of course being able to import them back into a .sim or other controller file would be a godsend.

I don't pretend to know how much work it would take to make these things come to fruition, or if they are even possible, but they would be an incredible help in any future projects.

yes thank you, people just dont seam to understand how much work goes into something like this and the simpler and easier it is to use means it took that much more work to make it look and work so trouble free and easy.

thank you for devoting your time and effort to do this for the community

[Royale-Adio]

Are you all saying that S3D could edit GR2 files with the proper modifications?

Just to know...

[TheBeast]

This has to be the best news I've read in the SH5 Forums.

I've been tinkering around with the Ganny Models since the day I received SH5 but kept hitting locked doors. Almost like Ubi was dangling a carrot just out of reach. Now, I can even smell that carrot and I am getting hungry...
There are so many possablities to examine and issue's to fix relating to the GR2 Model. Hopefully you, we, SH community can finally unlock those doors exposing those area's that need to be addressed.

[Royale-Adio]

Originally Posted by TheBeast

Hopefully you, we, SH community can finally unlock those doors exposing those area's that need to be addressed.

Like the creation of a Type 9? A Type 21 maybe?

[Nisgeis]

A modded S3D that works with SH5? Best mod ever!

[skwasjer]

Originally Posted by Royale-Adio

Are you all saying that S3D could edit GR2 files with the proper modifications?

Just to know...

GR2 support is not likely I'm afraid, at least initially. The reason obviously being licensing issues. I've indicated in the past that I could integrate GR2 support, techically I can do it (and have tested it), but am limited by this factor. Perhaps I 'can' use the GR2-files for preview purposes, but import/export may be a stretch too far, not to mention it is a lot of work, another limiting factor.

I do not intend to sit around another year developing S3D. The main goal now for S3D is to support all new/changed controllers, that is does not conflict with SH3/4, and to provide shortcuts to otherwise tedious tasks. It will not completely replace Goblin, at least for a while.

@skwasjer,

I'll round up all the modded files I have and get a link to you.
There's a couple more I'd like to finish first.
(Again, thanks to your help!)

I'll also post any info I have, or find out, on the Controllers.
Some of them we have discussed but I feel it would be best to
get them placed in this thread for reference.


@All Modders,

Another area that all of us should keep an eye on is
the needed steps and/or tricks to get Goblin and S3D working
hand in hand.
Also how or how not to do things.
Goblin seems touchy at times when adding or changeing files.
We need to understand why it's doing this and how to work around it.

Some information about Goblin and controllers issues:


Some Controllers are listed as Type 10/1000
Upon saveing edited changes to those Controllers?
They are re-classed and saved as Type 10/-1
This seems not to affect the Game play.

Type 4/100 nodes will not be saved by Goblin.
This leads to lost controllers upon re-opening with Goblin.
Adding with S3D or Hex?
They are valid in Game and cause no issues as yet identified.
(IE, TDW's Smoke and Flags Mods seem very stable)
Note that once the Type 4/100 are added,
no future adjustments to said files can be made in Goblin without
a lost controller Issue.

Question on Exporting RawChunks with S3D.
Is it possible to export all Child nodes of any given chunk?
If not now, could it be an added feature?

[Nisgeis]

Originally Posted by privateer

They are valid in Game and cause no issues as yet identified.

I wouldn't use that as a yard stick. Just because a change doesn't cause problems doesn't mean it's correct syntactically. The game is very forgiving and will accept all sorts of errors without batting an eye lid. But add another error in of the same type and bang, explosion.

I remember Skwas talking of a number of hack jobs from hex editting that on their own didn't cause problems, but did cause damage to the files and problems down the line. So, just because something works, doesn't mean it's right or has the right data structure.

Build on solid foundations and you'l have a stable set of tools. Build on uncertain ground? Who knows what might crop up.

Originally Posted by Nisgeis

I wouldn't use that as a yard stick. Just because a change doesn't cause problems doesn't mean it's correct syntactically. The game is very forgiving and will accept all sorts of errors without batting an eye lid. But add another error in of the same type and bang, explosion.

I remember Skwas talking of a number of hack jobs from hex editting that on their own didn't cause problems, but did cause damage to the files and problems down the line. So, just because something works, doesn't mean it's right or has the right data structure.

What part of "no issues as yet identified" is not clear to you or others?
I am looking for solutions.
Not stateing it's the only way.
The whole thing is going to be a path of discovery.
We will find what's right and wrong as we go.
SH3 and SH4 went through this.
We try what worked with SH3/SH4 and if it don't work?
We find out why and move forwards.
Just because We got Goblin does not make it the end all be all Tool.
S3D was not nor is the end all be all Tool.
A Hex Editor is also not the end all be all Tool.
The finest Tools out there?
Knowledge , willingness to attempt something,
and refuseing to believe it can't be done or figured out.
SH5 is a new Game.
You nor I know for a stone cold fact what is what as a whole.
I use what I learned in the best way I can to assist moveing forward.
Will we all make mistakes?
You better believe it!
We will FUBAR everything we can until we have all the answers!
If stacking on unknown controllers leads to a CTD?
I want to know about it and why!
Then look to adjust.
Theories at this point?
Are just theories.

[skwasjer]

Originally Posted by privateer

Some Controllers are listed as Type 10/1000
Upon saveing edited changes to those Controllers?
They are re-classed and saved as Type 10/-1
This seems not to affect the Game play.

For my clarification, saving with Goblin or saving with S3D?

Note that once the Type 4/100 are added,
no future adjustments to said files can be made in Goblin without
a lost controller Issue.

Do you know why?