A SH too far?

[John Channing]

Originally Posted by Arclight

Can't say I agree that purchasing an OSP game promotes the system, but I certainly understand that perspective. More than likely, Ubi Soft looks at it like that, that I do agree with.


Wanna hear the real kicker? The always-on requirement is being brought to console games as well. Also just exploratory, like it still seems to be on the PC, but still.

Capcom Apologizes for Not Telling Users of Final Fight DRM

Wow... looking at that link you provided they should forget about apologizing about DRM and apologize about the graphics.

Unless it's 1992 again already and no one told me?

JCC

[robbo180265]

Originally Posted by John Channing

Wow... looking at that link you provided they should forget about apologizing about DRM and apologize about the graphics.

Unless it's 1992 again already and no one told me?

JCC

Lol.

Taken from the article

"PS3 users who downloaded the bundle of 1990s arcade classics noticed that the game quits completely if the console loses its connection to the PlayStation Network - whether in single- or multiplayer. Capcom faced outrage over the restriction on its own community forums."

[609_Avatar]

Well I didn't buy it, DRM being the only reason, and I also emailed UBI. I found a marketing person's address on the main corporate site. Can't look for it as I'm not on the computer I mailed it to. Don't know whether it was read, much less make any difference at all, as I never received the courtesy of a reply but I thought it worth the effort.

If they do eventually drop it I will buy it in a heart beat.

[Nisgeis]

Originally Posted by Yak

There is only one metric for acceptance of something like this system to Ubi and that is sales, no amount of harshly worded letters or e-mails will make one iota of difference.

Then what good will posting about the faults of DRM on an internet discussion board do? You're right about harshly worded emails won't make a difference. A constructive email explaining why you aren't buying their products would be much better. Or, if people want to organise, then why not organise something they would notice, as has been tried in the past with other products. Why not arrange for those who don't like the DRM to send a lemon in the post to Ubisoft. If they get enough lemons, they'll get the message. A pile of lemons is harder to ignore than emails that hardly anyone is writing.

Not buying the game is not an action that will have any effect on the behaviour of Ubi and is in no way a 'vote'. If it were a vote, then you could simply not buy the game again. Perhaps not buying it a third time would send an even louder message to Ubisoft?

Originally Posted by Stormbringer

People who buy the new Ubisoft titles are part of the problem (the problem being defined here as the draconian DRM) because it promotes the company's DRM.

However, no matter what kind of boycott is in the general mindset, some people are going to buy these games. I wish it were a 100% boycott, but expecting that is unrealistic.

Rather than alienating some of the people who have bought the game, by telling them it's their fault, why not ask for their help and support in complaining to Ubisoft? Isn't that a better way to go about it? Some people have a genuine desire to have the DRM removed and some people are not interested in solving the problem and just want to rant about it in a way that will have no positive effect at all.

The people who have bought the game and do not like the DRM could write in / send lemons / rate the game or anything else you can think of. So, let's see some organisation here. I'd like to see at least one genuine effort to do something about it come out of all this complaining, if people are serious about getting the DRM removed.

Originally Posted by 609_Avatar

Well I didn't buy it, DRM being the only reason, and I also emailed UBI. I found a marketing person's address on the main corporate site. Can't look for it as I'm not on the computer I mailed it to. Don't know whether it was read, much less make any difference at all, as I never received the courtesy of a reply but I thought it worth the effort.

If they do eventually drop it I will buy it in a heart beat.

Well done for sending that email. There's only one way to tell a company what you think and that's to tell them what you think. Sending smoke signals, or disembowling chickens, posting on a forum they don't read or 'voting' with your wallet are probably not going to get through quite as well as a simple polite statement. Or a lemon .

[609_Avatar]

I like the lemon idea! But I do think voting with your wallet, as long as you explain that to them, does in fact help. It's the only place that they will truly feel it.

[Nisgeis]

Well, that may be true, but I think that with the DRM scheme being applied to three products at once (AC2, Settlers 7 and SH5), then the percentages that would not buy because of it will be the same across the board, so they may well just put it down to an economic downturn. They have to be seen to be making the right choices and if blaming piracy or economic downturn is what gets them off the hook for poor sales, that's what they'll chose as the reason. If they say DRM cost sales, then they will be held to account for the losses. If its factors outside of their control... It's all about spin!

[les green01]

well said Nisgeis

[robbo180265]

Originally Posted by les green01

well said Nisgeis

Agree 100%

[Frumpkis]

Originally Posted by Faamecanic

I kinda chuckle at all the doomsayers that say "If Ubi doesnt make a subsim we will never have one!!". So I guess we are to bend over, grab our ankles, and plead with UBI to use some lube at least???

Just look on the Subsim Home page....there are TWO naval sims out there by smaller dev groups that look outstanding. What makes any of you think that another group (or even the exsisting Devs) wouldnt pick up after UBI vacates the subsim arena?

I agree... in the long run, it might be the best thing for the sim community if Ubi did decide to drop out of the subsim market after the SH5 fiasco. The fact that Silent Hunter has dominated sub sims for the last few years, might be keeping some of the smaller devs from giving it a shot. Especially with "serious" sims being a niche market anyway.

Look at what's happening with civilian flight sims right now. Microsoft recently decided to shut down the MS Flight Simulator franchise, which has been the 500 lb. gorilla in that market for years. A few developers tried competing over the years with things like "Fly!" but they never got a foothold. There is one other serious alternative in X-Plane, but that's too geeky for the general game market and is a one-man project, basically.

Now however, with the 500 lb. gorilla going away, there have been at least two new civilian flight sim projects announced recently. That's healthy for the flight sim community, and it wouldn't have happened if Microsoft hadn't thrown in the towel. It's what could happen with subsims if Ubi leaves the market open.

[Capt_Sluggo]

Originally Posted by Nisgeis

If its factors outside of their control... It's all about spin!

I disagree. Spin can be made to work to political avail, within the domain of passion, emotion, and uninformed opinion, and when there is no other basis for resolution than those whimsical clouds. But it cannot be used to slant the true reasons behind profit and loss.

There are plenty of analysts both inside and outside of every significant enterprise to challenge claims of fault (and for that matter success). They always do, and they always do so exhaustively.

[robbo180265]

Originally Posted by Capt_Sluggo

I disagree. Spin can be made to work to political avail, within the domain of passion, emotion, and uninformed opinion, and when there is no other basis for resolution than those whimsical clouds. But it cannot be used to slant the true reasons behind profit and loss.

There are plenty of analysts both inside and outside of every significant enterprise to challenge claims of fault (and for that matter success). They always do, and they always do so exhaustively.

Wrong.

To reiterate what Nisgeis said.

If you simply sit back and do nothing (I.E. sit behind your computer refusing to buy the game) then they will attribute the loss of sales to many factors - the bugs, the recession, invaders from Mars etc.

If you actually contact them and let them know why you are not buying their product - then they will know that it's all about the DRM.

Telling us achieves nothing.

The ball is in your court my friend.....

[Capt_Sluggo]

Originally Posted by robbo180265

Wrong. ... Telling us achieves nothing.

Almost all companies have to dig with considerable effort to get reliable, honest customer feedback. With ANY kind of customer survey you are lucky to see a 10% return rate, and that with simplistic, check-the-closest-response type questions that really don't reveal much. Anything more useful usually requires a carrot - a prize or freebie of some sort which arguably injects bias.

But Ubisoft (like some other companies in this business) has the best imaginable customer feedback system. This forum and the others like it, propelled by well-spoken, influential repeat buyers filled with invaluable product-specific emotional and technical feedback. There is no need for surveys - Subsim is the nirvana of customer reaction.

Many mistakenly assume that since Ubisoft and the SH dev crew do not actively participate in these forums, they do not read the contents. The truth is that with rare exception, company representatives/employees are prohibited from such participation. For every clarification made by a fact that a company insider might publicly state, there are ten possible bad results that can cause legal problems.

The ONLY way that Ubi is not reading and reporting on this forum internally is if they have already made the decision to abandon further SH development and its market. Some believe that to be the case...

"Spin" does not work in the empirical realities of business. Enterprises that make decisions based on assumption fail, and those execs who try passing off conjecture as fact don't last. But there is no need for any of that here. Along with the sales figures which we are not privy to, Ubi has within this forum the entire picture of cause and effect without the spin.

[robbo180265]

Originally Posted by Capt_Sluggo

Almost all companies have to dig with considerable effort to get reliable, honest customer feedback. With ANY kind of customer survey you are lucky to see a 10% return rate, and that with simplistic, check-the-closest-response type questions that really don't reveal much. Anything more useful usually requires a carrot - a prize or freebie of some sort which arguably injects bias.

But Ubisoft (like some other companies in this business) has the best imaginable customer feedback system. This forum and the others like it, propelled by well-spoken, influential repeat buyers filled with invaluable product-specific emotional and technical feedback. There is no need for surveys - Subsim is the nirvana of customer reaction.

Many mistakenly assume that since Ubisoft and the SH dev crew do not actively participate in these forums, they do not read the contents. The truth is that with rare exception, company representatives/employees are prohibited from such participation. For every clarification made by a fact that a company insider might publicly state, there are ten possible bad results that can cause legal problems.

The ONLY way that Ubi is not reading and reporting on this forum internally is if they have already made the decision to abandon further SH development and its market. Some believe that to be the case...

"Spin" does not work in the empirical realities of business. Enterprises that make decisions based on assumption fail, and those execs who try passing off conjecture as fact don't last. But there is no need for any of that here. Along with the sales figures which we are not privy to, Ubi has within this forum the entire picture of cause and effect without the spin.

Mate,

As I posted in another thread - UBI can't even be bothered to read their own forums lol.

The only way you can be sure that they know your feelings is to actually contact them its not only simple but logical too.

Telling yourself anything else is simply kidding yourself.

Sitting here telling us achieves nothing - 'cos we already know.

[Faamecanic]

Originally Posted by Frumpkis

I agree... in the long run, it might be the best thing for the sim community if Ubi did decide to drop out of the subsim market after the SH5 fiasco. The fact that Silent Hunter has dominated sub sims for the last few years, might be keeping some of the smaller devs from giving it a shot. Especially with "serious" sims being a niche market anyway.

Look at what's happening with civilian flight sims right now. Microsoft recently decided to shut down the MS Flight Simulator franchise, which has been the 500 lb. gorilla in that market for years. A few developers tried competing over the years with things like "Fly!" but they never got a foothold. There is one other serious alternative in X-Plane, but that's too geeky for the general game market and is a one-man project, basically.

Now however, with the 500 lb. gorilla going away, there have been at least two new civilian flight sim projects announced recently. That's healthy for the flight sim community, and it wouldn't have happened if Microsoft hadn't thrown in the towel. It's what could happen with subsims if Ubi leaves the market open.

And I wish EASPORTS would vacate the NFL license. They stopped making Madden for the PC 3 yrs ago. But will NOT give up the license.

Why did they stop making madden for the PC you ask? Well they blame "poor sales make investment in PORTING over Madden from console to PC not a worth while investment".

WHY did EA have poor sales in the PC world. 1) Lack of moddability...they locked thier code down TIGHT (something that UBI at least let up on) 2) GAME RELEASED VERSION AFTER VERSION WITH MAJOR BUGS AND HALF ARSED PATCHES.

There are a few small groups making football sims for the PC now...but most are just stat simulators, and none have NFL teams and rosters. But there are small developers working on it and someday we will have one to compete with the 500 lb gorilla.

[Rockin Robbins]

The worst thing about the DRM is that we have to write a blank check to UBI, trusting them to disconnect the DRM if they decide to pull the plug on the paltry three servers. They do not trust us. We should not trust them. All the unfortunate purchasers will receive for their $50+ is a very inexpensive and inefficient drink coaster.

Just in time for the modders to make SH5 into a fun and playable game, nobody will be able to play it!