A SH too far?

[Faamecanic]

Originally Posted by TDK1044

I think people need to look objectively at the situation at the end of the year.

Silent Hunter 5 was a buggy mess at release...just like Silent Hunter III and Silent Hunter IV. It took those games 4 patches and significant modding before they were truly enjoyable.

Silent Hunter 5 has an even tougher journey ahead of it. It's by no means certain that Ubisoft will patch it beyond 1.2, because sales of the game are apparantly not great and the retailers are heavily reducing the price of the game to try and move them off the shelves.

In my opinion, if 1.2 is the final patch then the game is doomed. If Ubisoft authorizes a third patch and considers removing the DRM, then Silent Hunter 5 could become the best subsim ever.

Time will tell.

Agree with 90% of what you say here TDK. In all my biatching and kavetching about SH5...I have never even brought up DRM. I dont like it...but to me its no different than what came with any "games for windows Live" or "Steam" requirement.

With that said.... I honestly DO feel SH5 is in a worse state than either SH3 or 4 was at release. At least with 3 and 4 I played for a few weeks before waiting for the "final" patch (that never came).

I cant stand to play SH5 right now. Between all my 'friendly' ships trying to ram me in the Keil Canal while in full reverse, to the horrible UI (I know...mods are out for this, my point is I am critizing a UNmodded release), to the entirely stupid Ludicrous Speed Ahead, to the "sub on rails" ruining of immersion (a KNOWN issue since SH3)... I just have no desire to play SH5.

Im just going to wait until the "final" patch (that fixes most of the big bugs, and leaves all the no so big bugs like Ubi always does) and the MODS.

You see by all the folks NOT buying SH5 at full price, in the first couple months after release, this will ensure the death of the SH franchise. Ubi isnt looking at how many people bought the game 6 months from now...by then UBI has already made up thier minds that the game didnt sell enough.

Now couple the fact EVERY review I have read was 75% about all the bugs in the game (see the US PC GAMER review on newstands now) with 25% THEN bringing up the draconian DRM scheme.... you have a stinker (or sinker) of a first few months. The whole "Modders will fix this" does NOTHING to save the SH franchise... the only thing it does is give those of us stupid enough to buy the game at release HOPE that we MAY have an engrossing, immersive, Uboat sim someday.

[les green01]

there record for doing patches and with drm it don't look good for ubi i hope it be differn't for the ones who bought sh5

[KL-alfman]

edited
(pushed wrong button)

[JMV]

Yes, I think Ubisoft don't want to understand they have a bad strategy, persist on not listening to the game users, and will probably draw false conclusions....
If those repeated mistakes do not lead to their demise, it will probably be the end of the SH franchise...
To make it short, the only thing that keep SH alive are the modders...
They're after quick ( minimum ) money, and that's all. They are unable to really polish a product, take the necessary time to finish something.
No, they prefer to throw it at us in all haste, for quick, but not as good money as they would have made, had they finish the work, and have world praise for a job well done.
That should be their goal, but no, they are deaf and blind...

[KG_Jag]

I can't get excited about a buggy, incomplete, toxic DRM infected submarine game.

Further, the SH series appears to going in the wrong direction, beginning with SH3 to SH4 and now to SH5. If this is the stuff that they (SH franchise and/or Ubi) will continue offer, perhaps it is better that they fade away and allow at least a slightly greater chance that, over time, a new outfit will offer a better submarine product or three.

If that doesn't happen, there are many very good and better quality games in the sim and wargaming genres that I can play. Gaming time is too limited to waste on lousy or unsatisfying games.

[JMV]

Well, we'll see what SH5 becomes after 3 years thanks to the modders, it's a bit early to speak.
Anyway if the SH franchise disappears after SH5, there ain't that many sub simulations on the market unfortunately.

[Arclight]

Originally Posted by Stormbringer

I'm not sure how you came to this outcome from what I stated.

You say a DRM method survives if people accept it, ie. buy the product. It's simply not correct; people bought games with the limited installs "feature" and it disappeared. Don't see how I can make it clearer than that.

It was said before: if you don't buy a game, all it tells the publisher is that the game is not doing well, for whatever reason. If you want your opinion heard regarding DRM specifically, contact them.

[Stormbringer]

Originally Posted by Arclight

You say a DRM method survives if people accept it, ie. buy the product. It's simply not correct; people bought games with the limited installs "feature" and it disappeared. Don't see how I can make it clearer than that.

I see your point. I don't agree with it, but I understand what you're saying.

Taking Spore as an example of this, take a look at Amazon's selling list sometime. 2000+ out of 3000 reviews gave it 1 out of 5 because of the DRM. I think that's telling as to why it disappeared.

We're probably just going to have to agree to disagree on this point.

It was said before: if you don't buy a game, all it tells the publisher is that the game is not doing well, for whatever reason. If you want your opinion heard regarding DRM specifically, contact them.

Again, if anyone has an email address of contact, please post it. As it is, I'm writing a traditional US mail letter, because they at least provide addresses on their sites.

[Arclight]

Originally Posted by Stormbringer

Taking Spore as an example of this, take a look at Amazon's selling list sometime. 2000+ out of 3000 reviews gave it 1 out of 5 because of the DRM. I think that's telling as to why it disappeared.

So how is that different from SH5, or any OSP game?

First you say the people who buy the game are part of the problem, and not buying it will make it go away. Now it's the negative feedback? SH5 got plenty of that, I'm sure we can agree on that, so what's the problem then?


That contact address is a mystery indeed. "contact us" section holds no e-mail address, need to log in for support (should have account already). International support page is down. Alternative is by telephone, but that would cost you a bit.

[Faamecanic]

Originally Posted by JMV

Well, we'll see what SH5 becomes after 3 years thanks to the modders, it's a bit early to speak.
Anyway if the SH franchise disappears after SH5, there ain't that many sub simulations on the market unfortunately.

Thats because UBI is (somewhat) making them now.

I kinda chuckle at all the doomsayers that say "If Ubi doesnt make a subsim we will never have one!!". So I guess we are to bend over, grab our ankles, and plead with UBI to use some lube at least???

Just look on the Subsim Home page....there are TWO naval sims out there by smaller dev groups that look outstanding. What makes any of you think that another group (or even the exsisting Devs) wouldnt pick up after UBI vacates the subsim arena?

[Zedi]

Better some other company start to work on a (ww2) subsim, because I will not buy another one made by Ubi. Never again.

[Yak]

There is only one metric for acceptance of something like this system to Ubi and that is sales, no amount of harshly worded letters or e-mails will make one iota of difference.

Your choice is binary: Buy Sh5 and vote for OSP or don't.
Ubisoft already have a measure of how an SH game should sell from SH2,3 & 4 and if there is a marked drop in sales in this and other premium titles suddenly they can't help but notice it.

As for your argument that Starforce was removed even with sales, that was because there was legal action due to the destruction of peoples hardware and other legal actions taken, you think the petitions people signed made any difference?

Talk is cheap, the only thing they can measure is the number of Benjamins in their coffers.

And I bet every one of you will be lined up for the SH5 DLC when it is released gushing over how dreamy the Type IX and 1944 & 1945 DLC's were and how it was only $20 you paid for it, less than a meal at a restaurant.

[Stormbringer]

Originally Posted by Arclight

So how is that different from SH5, or any OSP game?

First you say the people who buy the game are part of the problem, and not buying it will make it go away. Now it's the negative feedback? SH5 got plenty of that, I'm sure we can agree on that, so what's the problem then?

People who buy the new Ubisoft titles are part of the problem (the problem being defined here as the draconian DRM) because it promotes the company's DRM.

However, no matter what kind of boycott is in the general mindset, some people are going to buy these games. I wish it were a 100% boycott, but expecting that is unrealistic.

If a few people buy these titles and most give horrible reviews and the total sales end up bad, that's still a message of overall dissatisfaction. In the case of SH5, that seems to be panning out (I just got done reading the customer reviews at Amazon and 55 out of 60 gave it 1 out of 5, most being very critical of the DRM). That SH5 is broken out of the box in game play, however, muddies the waters and the anti-DRM stances in these reviews are diluted by this. Ubi may ignore the DRM gripes, and rationalize that SH5 is floundering only because it wasn't a finished product. This again, is why a 100% boycott (or as close as you can get to 100%) of purchasing would be a more effective message against the DRM.

My concern at this point is more toward Ubi's other titles, which aim to a much larger audience. (There are far more people interested in AC2 than SH5, for example.) If the general acceptance there remains by large sales numbers, then complaints about the DRM will be glossed over by the sales and anything happening in the SH5 realm will be ignored as a 'niche market reaction'.

Thankfully, at least looking at Amazon as a guide, the PC version of Assassin's Creed II customer reviews are at 1.5 out of 5, with 122 reviews. It all seems to be based on the DRM! That's a good thing. With the console game reviews hitting 4.5 by comparison, that will send a message that the DRM is the issue on the PC side. At least if Ubisoft is paying attention, it will send that message. If they don't pay attention to the reasons behind the ratings, then they may just decide that the problem isn't the DRM, but that PC gaming is a lost cause.

At this point, it will all depend on how Ubisoft reads the results.

That contact address is a mystery indeed. "contact us" section holds no e-mail address, need to log in for support (should have account already). International support page is down. Alternative is by telephone, but that would cost you a bit.

Maybe they're tired of people griping?

The International support page was up a couple of days ago, but still no email address.

[danasan]

This is what we are always given: community.germany@ubisoft.com

I do not know if it "works"

.

[Arclight]

Originally Posted by Stormbringer

People who buy the new Ubisoft titles are part of the problem (the problem being defined here as the draconian DRM) because it promotes the company's DRM.

However, no matter what kind of boycott is in the general mindset, some people are going to buy these games. I wish it were a 100% boycott, but expecting that is unrealistic.

If a few people buy these titles and most give horrible reviews and the total sales end up bad, that's still a message of overall dissatisfaction. In the case of SH5, that seems to be panning out (I just got done reading the customer reviews at Amazon and 55 out of 60 gave it 1 out of 5, most being very critical of the DRM). That SH5 is broken out of the box in game play, however, muddies the waters and the anti-DRM stances in these reviews are diluted by this. Ubi may ignore the DRM gripes, and rationalize that SH5 is floundering only because it wasn't a finished product. This again, is why a 100% boycott (or as close as you can get to 100%) of purchasing would be a more effective message against the DRM.

My concern at this point is more toward Ubi's other titles, which aim to a much larger audience. (There are far more people interested in AC2 than SH5, for example.) If the general acceptance there remains by large sales numbers, then complaints about the DRM will be glossed over by the sales and anything happening in the SH5 realm will be ignored as a 'niche market reaction'.

Thankfully, at least looking at Amazon as a guide, the PC version of Assassin's Creed II customer reviews are at 1.5 out of 5, with 122 reviews. It all seems to be based on the DRM! That's a good thing. With the console game reviews hitting 4.5 by comparison, that will send a message that the DRM is the issue on the PC side. At least if Ubisoft is paying attention, it will send that message. If they don't pay attention to the reasons behind the ratings, then they may just decide that the problem isn't the DRM, but that PC gaming is a lost cause.

At this point, it will all depend on how Ubisoft reads the results.

Maybe they're tired of people griping?

The International support page was up a couple of days ago, but still no email address.

Can't say I agree that purchasing an OSP game promotes the system, but I certainly understand that perspective. More than likely, Ubi Soft looks at it like that, that I do agree with.


Wanna hear the real kicker? The always-on requirement is being brought to console games as well. Also just exploratory, like it still seems to be on the PC, but still.

Capcom Apologizes for Not Telling Users of Final Fight DRM