The Inevitable Woes of SH5

[scrapser]

Back to my main point about the concept of developing a high end simulation. I think Steel Beasts is the closest to what I'm talking about. It seems to be working.

I'll ask this question. Does anyone here know or have the connections to pose this idea to the most likely company/developers who could give some feedback and maybe explain why or why not it would work? I'm not suggesting Ubisoft Romania but obviously they would be one of the groups of people to ask.

As far as I know, nobody has put this question directly to anyone during an interview. It's usually to talk about the title about to be released or the next E3 convention and what to expect.

[Tarnsman]

I agree with the OP, I would pay more for a high qulity simulation. Thats all I buy anyway gamewise, so instead of 4 or more a year in the old days its like maybe one. I dont really even look in the game section anymore because I know what is there already, and new stuff comes out so infrequently.

There are lots of days when Im stuck in the mall wishing I could find something to buy for myself for 50 bucks or so. The lady will drop a fifty in the time it takes me to get a sip of water and Im walking around empty handed.

As for electric cars... get a HEMI

[Tarnsman]

Also! How much money did the M$ Flight Simulator gang spend on their little addiction? Man M$ really dropped the ball on that one, I wonder what they were smoking. Or maybe they had stopped smoking. MMMM?

[JU_88]

Originally Posted by scrapser

Back to my main point about the concept of developing a high end simulation. I think Steel Beasts is the closest to what I'm talking about. It seems to be working.

I'll ask this question. Does anyone here know or have the connections to pose this idea to the most likely company/developers who could give some feedback and maybe explain why or why not it would work? I'm not suggesting Ubisoft Romania but obviously they would be one of the groups of people to ask.

As far as I know, nobody has put this question directly to anyone during an interview. It's usually to talk about the title about to be released or the next E3 convention and what to expect.

My guess is that it wont work for the simple reason that its not as profitable (if at all)

1) Ubi want a silent hunter title to compete with other action/war games on offer from other publishers. (Silent hunter does have a bit of 'ive-never-tried-a-sub-game-before' novelty to its credit)

But the higher price tag could easily scare off potential new and casual gamers, I doubt that beefing up the price tag and selling to the hardcore minority would any where near compensate for those losses of sales to the broader market.

2) Also, to devlelop a sim to the detailed standards and quality expected by most simmers - the devs would would probably require near enough the development time and budget for all three of the last silent hunter games combined.

Not gonna happen.

[OakGroove]

I think Steel Beasts is the closest to what I'm talking about. It seems to be working.

I own SB Pro. It´s excellent. While SB Pro might "eventually" be financially worthwhile for ESim Games, it wouldn't be for UBI. They probably won't waste a second brainstorming on a serious simulation that caters "the few". Peanuts for them, the crumbs of the pie they leave for smaller companys. That's where our only hope is.

btw. DCS Black Shark is selling currently for 20 Eur, that's a serious siimulation as well. Genre-reference.

[Turbografx]

Originally Posted by Hanomag

I dont know ..there are alot of tight wads out there.. just ask Neal how hard it is to get a 10 buck donation for his site.

I mean from what I have read in the forums most wouldnt spend a nickle to watch the Statue of Liberty scratch its ass.

Lol, guess I need a paypal account!

Originally Posted by OakGroove

I own SB Pro. It´s excellent. While SB Pro might "eventually" be financially worthwhile for ESim Games, it wouldn't be for UBI. They probably won't waste a second brainstorming on a serious simulation that caters "the few". Peanuts for them, the crumbs of the pie they leave for smaller companys. That's where our only hope is.

btw. DCS Black Shark is selling currently for 20 Eur, that's a serious siimulation as well. Genre-reference.

Keep in mind Esims had the incentive of military contracts for their modern tank combat simulator. I doubt many governments would have much use for a WWII Uboat simulator with that level of fidelity.

I can't wait for DCS: A-10 to come out. ACHTUNG SPITFEU...WARZENSCHWEIN!

[OakGroove]

Originally Posted by Turbografx

Keep in mind Esims had the incentive of military contracts for their modern tank combat simulator. I doubt many governments would have much use for a WWII Uboat simulator with that level of fidelity.

I can't wait for DCS: A-10 to come out. ACHTUNG SPITFEU...WARZENSCHWEIN!

. Yepp, not unlike BIs mil contracts. VBS is available to the consumer market as well, at a hefty pricetag - few people own it. Can't wait for DCS A-10 either.

[jwilliams]

How much are you prepared to pay for such a game???

how much will it cost to make this game???

how many copies do you expect to sell??

well the avage compuer dev cost is = $28 million
http://www.develop-online.net/news/3...as-high-as-28m

SH4 sold 50k http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=161973 (post #3) so lets estimate you new game will sell 50k also.

28,000,000 / 50,000 = 560

then there would be other costs involved (disturbution, taxes, store profit etc.).

Are you realy goning to pay around $700 for this sub game???

and at that price i doubt that you'd sell 50k copies pushing the price even higher.

[Méo]

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

SH2: ~95K
SH3: ~90K
SH4: ~50K

Those are US numbers, worldwide is something like 2X those figures.

Just a little precision.

[Heretic]

Originally Posted by jwilliams

well the avage compuer dev cost is = $28 million

That's the high end for a multi-platform game. The article you linked said a single platform game runs about $10 million. If so, that's quite a lot more than I'd have guessed for this game.

Your point remains valid. Do the math and you can come to no other conclusion.

[Méo]

Originally Posted by Heretic

Your point remains valid. Do the math and you can come to no other conclusion.

Yeah!

And that always make me chuckles when I see some comments...

The SH series had obviously never been a blockbuster.

[jwilliams]

Originally Posted by Heretic

That's the high end for a multi-platform game. The article you linked said a single platform game runs about $10 million. If so, that's quite a lot more than I'd have guessed for this game.

Your point remains valid. Do the math and you can come to no other conclusion.

Yeah my example isnt ment to be spot on... its just an example. (a guess-timate)

but everyone wants this new sub sim to be the `crem del la creme`.
look at dev cost for Gran turismo "$60 million" and gran turismo is single platform (PS3 only).

so what im getting at is making a high end sub sim for the `niche' market is just not profitable.

it's sad but true.

[Heretic]

I couldn't afford a nice car, but I could get a fixer-upper.
I couldn't afford a nice house, but I could get a fixer-upper.
They'll never make the sub sim of my dreams, so... well you get the idea.

[scrapser]

Originally Posted by jwilliams

Yeah my example isnt ment to be spot on... its just an example. (a guess-timate)

but everyone wants this new sub sim to be the `crem del la creme`.
look at dev cost for Gran turismo "$60 million" and gran turismo is single platform (PS3 only).

so what im getting at is making a high end sub sim for the `niche' market is just not profitable.

it's sad but true.

I appreciate what is being argued here but again I must remind everyone the information, the research, is taken from the existing market dynamics. That $10 million estimate could very well include factors that would not come into play if a company were to take a radical approach to developing a high end sim.

And yes, I think it would be safe to say a sim of the caliber I am thinking of would likely cost at least $100 a pop if not much more. But for that money you would get something with incredible detail and realism and it would not be pushed out the door until it was at a stage where bugs were actually hard to find.

It may sound like a lot of money to spend on a title but think about this...how much would you be spending or have already spent on SH3, SH4, SH5, (SH6?)??? With a high end sim like I envision you would be buying the last sub sim you would ever need and if done right, the developer could make the core code portable to transfer as significant new technologies come available which at this point would mostly be graphics and AI.

I'm thinking way outside the box here and hope others will too.

[mookiemookie]

Originally Posted by JU_88

But the higher price tag could easily scare off potential new and casual gamers, I doubt that beefing up the price tag and selling to the hardcore minority would any where near compensate for those losses of sales to the broader market.

I think you hit the nail on the head. Non-subsimmers are not going to spend $100 on a "oh what the heck, I'll give it a try" kind of purchase.