The Inevitable Woes of SH5

[OakGroove]

I think Steel Beasts is the closest to what I'm talking about. It seems to be working.

I own SB Pro. It´s excellent. While SB Pro might "eventually" be financially worthwhile for ESim Games, it wouldn't be for UBI. They probably won't waste a second brainstorming on a serious simulation that caters "the few". Peanuts for them, the crumbs of the pie they leave for smaller companys. That's where our only hope is.

btw. DCS Black Shark is selling currently for 20 Eur, that's a serious siimulation as well. Genre-reference.

[Turbografx]

Originally Posted by Hanomag

I dont know ..there are alot of tight wads out there.. just ask Neal how hard it is to get a 10 buck donation for his site.

I mean from what I have read in the forums most wouldnt spend a nickle to watch the Statue of Liberty scratch its ass.

Lol, guess I need a paypal account!

Originally Posted by OakGroove

I own SB Pro. It´s excellent. While SB Pro might "eventually" be financially worthwhile for ESim Games, it wouldn't be for UBI. They probably won't waste a second brainstorming on a serious simulation that caters "the few". Peanuts for them, the crumbs of the pie they leave for smaller companys. That's where our only hope is.

btw. DCS Black Shark is selling currently for 20 Eur, that's a serious siimulation as well. Genre-reference.

Keep in mind Esims had the incentive of military contracts for their modern tank combat simulator. I doubt many governments would have much use for a WWII Uboat simulator with that level of fidelity.

I can't wait for DCS: A-10 to come out. ACHTUNG SPITFEU...WARZENSCHWEIN!

[mookiemookie]

Originally Posted by JU_88

But the higher price tag could easily scare off potential new and casual gamers, I doubt that beefing up the price tag and selling to the hardcore minority would any where near compensate for those losses of sales to the broader market.

I think you hit the nail on the head. Non-subsimmers are not going to spend $100 on a "oh what the heck, I'll give it a try" kind of purchase.

[Reece]

Originally Posted by gutted

It's called a dongle, and those are crackable as well. Usually in the form of a tray application that emulates the dongle.

Depends on how sophisticated the dongle is, with todays technology a USB device could be quite complicated, but mass produced quite cheap, I would pay around $200 for a good sim with this device, as long as there was no DRM crap!!

[THE_MASK]

How about something radical like the customer paying for DLC that includes hard code fixers because SH3/4 could have done with some more . I was willing to pay for DLC + patches for SH4 but they just abandoned the games as usual . SH5 will be a bug fest like SH3/4 or it will need hard coded things changed to suit hard core simmers . I bet a lot of people would pay extra if that was the only way to get what we want . The old argument that the fixers should be included free is correct and the first 3 or so should be free but after that why not give us payware .

[OakGroove]

Originally Posted by Turbografx

Keep in mind Esims had the incentive of military contracts for their modern tank combat simulator. I doubt many governments would have much use for a WWII Uboat simulator with that level of fidelity.

I can't wait for DCS: A-10 to come out. ACHTUNG SPITFEU...WARZENSCHWEIN!

. Yepp, not unlike BIs mil contracts. VBS is available to the consumer market as well, at a hefty pricetag - few people own it. Can't wait for DCS A-10 either.

[java`s revenge]

Scrapser,

Have patience, we have 2 mods of the great TOMI in the wait.
If that comes out we have almost a perfect uboat sim.

[scrapser]

I've read all the replies so far and want to keep this idea alive if possible. Many have offered reasons why it wouldn't work but if you look carefully at some of your arguments you will see you are trying to fit the idea back into the existing marketing model. No disrespect but you need to remember this would be a completely new approach in both how the sim is developed and the market that would purchase it.

For example, it would not appeal to the casual gamer because the casual gamer is not the target audience, so they should not be considered as part of the formula. Yes, a few may catch wind of the project and buy into it but that's a happy side effect.

It's also an attempt to produce a highly detailed simulation that pays for itself and gives the developers/publisher a return for their effort but is not meant to be a money making machine like the console gaming market is set up. This is what is wrong with the current PC market. The publishing companies keep trying to produce titles that are essentially, "fire and forget" titles that make them money with minimal effort on their part. Get it?

The users are in it for the fun. The modders are in it for the challenge and pride of accomplishment. Developers are a mixed bag. I'm sure many of them are also gamers, but I bet that's the exception...not the rule. A project of this sort would have to be embraced by people who have the passion for the resulting end product and are not concerned simply with making money.

[catar M]

Originally Posted by jazman

War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: $70. You should have heard the wailing and gnashing of teeth. It was utterly unconscionable for a company to do such a thing! And this is for a hard-core niche of wargaming. If you play WitP, you know exactly what I mean.

If you think the DRM wailing has been bad, just imagine if UBI said, "SH6 will be $100." It doesn't matter if they ship it with three Swedish super-models.

Welcome to my world most games are $100 AUD (Australian $) 1AUD = .90 US
and then developers and publishers wonder why there is piracy

[jwilliams]

How much are you prepared to pay for such a game???

how much will it cost to make this game???

how many copies do you expect to sell??

well the avage compuer dev cost is = $28 million
http://www.develop-online.net/news/3...as-high-as-28m

SH4 sold 50k http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=161973 (post #3) so lets estimate you new game will sell 50k also.

28,000,000 / 50,000 = 560

then there would be other costs involved (disturbution, taxes, store profit etc.).

Are you realy goning to pay around $700 for this sub game???

and at that price i doubt that you'd sell 50k copies pushing the price even higher.

[Méo]

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

SH2: ~95K
SH3: ~90K
SH4: ~50K

Those are US numbers, worldwide is something like 2X those figures.

Just a little precision.

[Heretic]

Originally Posted by jwilliams

well the avage compuer dev cost is = $28 million

That's the high end for a multi-platform game. The article you linked said a single platform game runs about $10 million. If so, that's quite a lot more than I'd have guessed for this game.

Your point remains valid. Do the math and you can come to no other conclusion.

[Méo]

Originally Posted by Heretic

Your point remains valid. Do the math and you can come to no other conclusion.

Yeah!

And that always make me chuckles when I see some comments...

The SH series had obviously never been a blockbuster.

[jwilliams]

Originally Posted by Heretic

That's the high end for a multi-platform game. The article you linked said a single platform game runs about $10 million. If so, that's quite a lot more than I'd have guessed for this game.

Your point remains valid. Do the math and you can come to no other conclusion.

Yeah my example isnt ment to be spot on... its just an example. (a guess-timate)

but everyone wants this new sub sim to be the `crem del la creme`.
look at dev cost for Gran turismo "$60 million" and gran turismo is single platform (PS3 only).

so what im getting at is making a high end sub sim for the `niche' market is just not profitable.

it's sad but true.

[Heretic]

I couldn't afford a nice car, but I could get a fixer-upper.
I couldn't afford a nice house, but I could get a fixer-upper.
They'll never make the sub sim of my dreams, so... well you get the idea.