The new breed of silent hunter user .

[Bilge_Rat]

Originally Posted by Turbografx

SHV will be the "lite beer" of the sim world if you will and I'm definitely a Belgian dubbel kind of guy.

Maybe I am missing something since I have read/seen the same previews/articles/videos everyone else has, but what piece of info makes everyone think this will be more lite than SH3 or SH4 when released. From what I can see it is will have the same realism settings as SH3/4.

[Méo]

Originally Posted by Bilge_Rat

Maybe I am missing something since I have read/seen the same previews/articles/videos everyone else has, but what piece of info makes everyone think this will be more lite than SH3 or SH4 when released. From what I can see it is will have the same realism settings as SH3/4.

Agreed.

But we cannot prevent people from being subjective...

[OakGroove]

Guess it's just voyeurism ... like visiting a panoptikum. You are somehow fascinated by that beautifully crafted wax figure - but also aware that the magic will be gone as soon as you examine closer or touch it.

[Turbografx]

Originally Posted by Bilge_Rat

Maybe I am missing something since I have read/seen the same previews/articles/videos everyone else has, but what piece of info makes everyone think this will be more lite than SH3 or SH4 when released. From what I can see it is will have the same realism settings as SH3/4.

Well, it appears to inherit many of the shortcomings of SH3 (unmodded) e.g.

Lack of attention to detail in models and bugs carrying over from past games e.g. conning towers, propeller spin, submerged crew etc.
"Zippy" ships
Health point system
Cylindrical navigation
Lack of specific control (engines, trim, ballast)

and adds some new ones:

Crew abilities:
Crush depth - knowing how to handle the systems, the chief engineer, can increase the maximum depth for his boat.

Maneuvering - The submarine will turn faster either surfaced or submerged.

Reveal hidden enemies - Based on intuition and experience, the sound guy, can unveil hidden enemies where nothing seems to be.

Total revealing - An experienced sound guy is able to offer you more information about the hydrophone targets than usual. You will be able to see on your map all contacts as if are in visual range.

Warheads specialist - A veteran Torpedoman is able to adjust the torpedo systems in order to obtain a longer range and higher damage.

Pre-heat torpedo - Pre-heating the torpedo systems just before the firing, the torpedo damage and speed will be increased.

Suppress fire - the guns crew will open fire against enemy gunners suppressing them, lowering the enemy guns damage and accuracy.

The gunner knows how to use the ammunition suited for the right situation. The damage is increased for all weapons.

Navigator skills can lower fuel consumption.

Ability to "magically" know via radar-like mini-map the enemy line of sight / detection range (you can close this minimap).

Imprecise TDC controls

Now, I never played SH3 or 4 without mods, I waited 4-6 months before I got either. That said, I don't think SH5 will necessarily be any MORE gamey than 3/4 but I wasn't happy with those at release either. I was hoping the next game in the series would incorporate the best improvements from the mods as standard. I continue to live in hope that eventually things will get better at some point or that another group will start making subsims (fat chance they would be any better).

I was introduced to the subsim through Wolfpack, Aces of the Deep and Silent Hunter. These, while certainly far from perfect, had a number of realism features absent in more recent titles (before modding). My judgment also comes from the perspective of an avid flight simmer, a genre which has many very high-fidelity products.

I think SH5 may very well be a good platform for modding, and 6 months down the line I will buy it. I just don't think I would really call it an accurate simulator straight out of the box. Ubi marketing agrees, the game is classified as "action-adventure".

[Bilge_Rat]

Originally Posted by Turbografx

Well, it appears to inherit many of the shortcomings of SH3 (unmodded) e.g.

Lack of attention to detail in models and bugs carrying over from past games e.g. conning towers, propeller spin, submerged crew etc.
"Zippy" ships
Health point system
Cylindrical navigation
Lack of specific control (engines, trim, ballast)

and adds some new ones:

Now, I never played SH3 or 4 without mods, I waited 4-6 months before I got either. That said, I don't think SH5 will necessarily be any MORE gamey than 3/4 but I wasn't happy with those at release either. I was hoping the next game in the series would incorporate the best improvements from the mods as standard. I continue to live in hope that eventually things will get better at some point or that another group will start making subsims (fat chance they would be any better).

I was introduced to the subsim through Wolfpack, Aces of the Deep and Silent Hunter. These, while certainly far from perfect, had a number of realism features absent in more recent titles (before modding). My judgment also comes from the perspective of an avid flight simmer, a genre which has many very high-fidelity products.

I think SH5 may very well be a good platform for modding, and 6 months down the line I will buy it. I just don't think I would really call it an accurate simulator straight out of the box. Ubi marketing agrees, the game is classified as "action-adventure".

I do not disagree with your assessment.

Just an additional point, special crew abilities were already present in SH3 and SH4 and having the performance of the crew vary based on skill and experience is standard in most sims, whether land, sea or air based.

In other sims however, crew performance is based on military experience categories, i.e. "conscript", "green", "regular", "veteran", "crack", "elite". Obviously one mistake Ubi made was in using RPG type categories which would be more suited to Fallout 3 than Silent Hunter 5.

[Heretic]

Originally Posted by Bilge_Rat

In other sims however, crew performance is based on military experience categories, i.e. "conscript", "green", "regular", "veteran", "crack", "elite". Obviously one mistake Ubi made was in using RPG type categories which would be more suited to Fallout 3 than Silent Hunter 5.

I disagree that that is a mistake. It fits in with their larger strategy of making the game more accessible to the casual game by using terminology and concepts they are familiar with - levels, special abilities, that sort of thing. Sub sims, in particular, have a lot of specialized language and concepts. The 'dumbed down' interface and terminology are intended to reduce the learning curve for the 90% of their target audience who doesn't eat, drink, and sleep submarines. In any case, they're just text labels in some file somewhere. We can change them to whatever we want.

As long as 'our game' is still under there, I don't really care what they layer on top of it to attract the sales they need to justify making the game.

[FIREWALL]

Originally Posted by Bilge_Rat

Maybe I am missing something since I have read/seen the same previews/articles/videos everyone else has, but what piece of info makes everyone think this will be more lite than SH3 or SH4 when released. From what I can see it is will have the same realism settings as SH3/4.

You are missing something or, you need a eye checkup.

The Speed Telegraph is some thing out of StarTrek.

No depth below keel. (as stated in Neals preview report)

Speaking of keels. No Keil Canal (come on Ubi, it's been done for you)

The Peri\UZO gui's done here are far superior to SH5's.

On the other hand there's plenty of GOOD stuff too.

As for buying it now. I think I'll be a window watcher for awhile.

[LiveGoat]

Wait, what?! No Kiel Canal? Is Kiel available at all in the game?

[Nisgeis]

Originally Posted by LiveGoat

Wait, what?! No Kiel Canal? Is Kiel available at all in the game?

Kiel will be there, but not the canal.

[Bilge_Rat]

Originally Posted by FIREWALL

You are missing something or, you need a eye checkup.

I just got some new glasses, let me see if that helps...


....(cleans new rose tinted glasses)....


no, still looks the same...

[FIREWALL]

How many have bothered to CLOSELY read and look at screenshots of Neals Preview ?


http://www.subsim.com/2010_02/sh5/pr...h5_feb2010.php

[Nisgeis]

That's not fair Firewall, making people read stuff and look at stuff to get information. For those that have the attention span of a flea:

http://www.subsim.com/2010_02/sh5/2010%2002%2007/sh5_intro/sh5%202010-02-18%2015-06-57-96.jpg

This has also been commented on, in the preview thread.

Those that have been watching will also have noticed that you can still plot courses over land, for your TC beaching entertainment.

[Bilge_Rat]

The Kiel canal is an oversight.

Can someone refresh my memory, was it in stock SH3?

I was under the impression it was added by modders.

[razark]

Originally Posted by Bilge_Rat

The Kiel canal is an oversight.

Can someone refresh my memory, was it in stock SH3?

I was under the impression it was added by modders.

No, it was not in stock.

[Ducimus]

Originally Posted by Bilge_Rat

The Kiel canal is an oversight.

Can someone refresh my memory, was it in stock SH3?

I was under the impression it was added by modders.

Not in stock, never was. Not the panama canal either. Kiel canal was added later by mod. Now the lack of Kiel canal... here's an educated guess on why:

The dev's have alot to do, and are on a time table. So they have to prioritize. Revisiting old code or program resource that still works, just for the sake of polish isn't likely to happen.