Ubisoft comments on new DRM (will lower/prevent piracy?)

[trenken]

Originally Posted by TarJak

How about we compare it to the decline and rise of vinyl music recordings? They died in the backside when CD's came out and then people who wanted the hiss and crackle and moreover the depth of sound that comes from an analogue record, created a demand. so much so that there are now artists that release exclusively on vinyl. If the demand is high enough companies listen because there is money involved.

Trust me, I totally understand why people love albums, but that doesnt mean that the change would cease to take place just because so many people loved it. Time has shown that it didnt, CDs did in fact take over. If you want to buy an album, you have 2 options, online or vintage shops.

Technology is always changing, and some people that are stuck on the way things were will just be left behind. Thats just the way its always been. Im very understanding of that. I guess im just a different kind of person.

When I fall in love with something, and its eventually replaced, its not hard for me to let go. I dont question why the change is taking place, I recognize I have no options but to let it go. Too many times in my life Ive seem people try to hang on to the way things were, and it never works out too well for them. Change doesnt halt for anyone. A bunch of people here complaining to Ubi about SH5 is not going to change the current trend of the industry.

[THE_MASK]

Is it just me , does anyone else turn into this when the internet stops working .

[trenken]

Originally Posted by TarJak

I agree that you shouldn't feel afraid to express your views and from what I've seen you have done so quite often. Instead of trying to police the boards, (moderators have that role to play),

Go ahead and keep telling people what you think. You may change a mind or two.

Just not mine.

To be honest with you im not trying to change anyones minds. If a single person is changed to be a little more open to the way things are now out of what ive said, thats nice, but I dont care about that honestly.

I dont care if Ubi makes a single dime over my defending my reasons for not having a problem with DRM. Its not about that. Its just about the simple fact thats its completely overtaken the SH5 boards. Thats all it is for me.

Had this all been centralized to 1 SH5 thread I would have let it go. But once I tried to post in a couple positive threads that decended into DRM trash fests is when I started getting all defensive about it.

I know thats immature anyway, but it happened. I just want it to stop. The game is close to release, some of us are very excited, apparently only a few of us, but still, for something that is such a hot topic, it needs to be reeled in at some point. Thats just standard practice on internet message boards. It needs to be done to keep order.

[TarJak]

Originally Posted by trenken

A bunch of people here complaining to Ubi about SH5 is not going to change the current trend of the industry.

If that were the case I'd agree with you but it's not just use here and it's not just subsim.

There are many others on many other boards playning many other games that are also voicing their displeasure/acceptance.

Just because it is "destined" to happen doesn't mean it has to. I personally do not believe in destiny and do believe in the power of people voicing their opinions about issues like these. Particularly where it concerns consumers wallets.

It doesn't alway get the result everyone wants but it can influence the result nonetheless.

[zakarpatska]

Originally Posted by Highbury

I was told in the Helosim section that ROF has not been cracked because the market for it is so small that nobody has bothered. I think with all of the people who played IL-2, ROF would have had a bigger potential market then a Sub sim. If the "hacking/cracking/pirating" community could not be arsed to crack a game like ROF, I think the odds of a large effort to crack SHV will be slight.

I was going to buy ROF until I heard about the DRM and then I decided not to. Since I both enjoy flight sims and am interested in WWI aviation I would imagine that I am a member ROF's target market.

So the DRM added to ROF prevented at least one sale. I can't imagine I was the only person who did not buy because of the DRM.

On the other hand ROF has not been pirated yet. It would be interesting to know whether DRM actually lost or increased sales for ROF.

[longam]

Originally Posted by sober

Is it just me , does anyone else turn into this when the internet stops working .

Something close, where have these poeple been hiding.....oh wait in the SH3/GrowlingWolfXtra forum.

[TarJak]

Originally Posted by trenken

I just want it to stop.

Good luck with that.

[Rip]

Originally Posted by trenken

Trust me, I totally understand why people love albums, but that doesnt mean that the change would cease to take place just because so many people loved it. Time has shown that it didnt, CDs did in fact take over. If you want to buy an album, you have 2 options, online or vintage shops.

Technology is always changing, and some people that are stuck on the way things were will just be left behind. Thats just the way its always been. Im very understanding of that. I guess im just a different kind of person.

When I fall in love with something, and its eventually replaced, its not hard for me to let go. I dont question why the change is taking place, I recognize I have no options but to let it go. Too many times in my life Ive seem people try to hang on to the way things were, and it never works out too well for them. Change doesnt halt for anyone. A bunch of people here complaining to Ubi about SH5 is not going to change the current trend of the industry.

The thing is they are trying to force old jazz music to a bunch of old timers that like vinyl on CD. The old timers will for the most part just continue listening to the ones they have until someone sees the market for the vinyl and buy that.

You can lead the horses to water but you can't make them drink. In the end with any luck the failure (being theoretical here, no idea what sales will do) of the franchise will result in someone at some point buying the name and possibly material and going at it with a better feel for the market they are able to appeal to.

Also in thinking about this it is strange that this market (hardcore simulation) seems to also be VERY concerned about the privacy and related issues raised by this always connected OSP model. I would not be surprised to see some other things that we think in common that also have a drastic contrast to the norm, even for adult gamers.

[Brag]

Originally Posted by TarJak

If that were the case I'd agree with you but it's not just use here and it's not just subsim.

There are many others on many other boards playning many other games that are also voicing their displeasure/acceptance.

Just because it is "destined" to happen doesn't mean it has to. I personally do not believe in destiny and do believe in the power of people voicing their opinions about issues like these. Particularly where it concerns consumers wallets.

It doesn't alway get the result everyone wants but it can influence the result nonetheless.

Snap, snap, snap shut your wallets and the future is yours. Ubi has only a few fanboys who will buy. As other gamers do the same, arrogant companies like Ubi will learn to listen.

Snap, snap, snap

[TarJak]

For example: http://subsim.com/radioroom/showpost...49&postcount=1

I rest my case.

[frenema]

Hi, I'm a lurker and I've been waiting for SH5 ever since the rumors started... but I'm totally pissed about the whole DRM/OSP fiasco. Do these people seriously think thank sales will rise if the game becomes unsellable once bought?

Now... trenken, I've been reading lot of posts from you. Everyone has a right to their own opinion, but your arguments are simply flawed I must say...

Originally Posted by trenken

And if they cant get it at all, well what can you do? Everything is going online now, even single player games. Times are changing. That was my point.

I dont see the sense in trying to wage a war against them when they arent the only ones doing this, everything is going online. Its the natural progression of things...

No it's not. You talk as if the whole gaming industry is going OSP these days, but there are still companies like Paradox Interactive who sell millions per every game they release. And guess what DRM they use? Nothing, not even a serial key, because they're business run on a philosophy that customers have to be bought, not enslaved to make profit. And I'm sure there are many new single player games out there (and will be out in future) that doesn't come with Big Brother package.

Servers go down, thats just the way things go. If your computer dies, do you blame someone else for not being able to play the game? No because nothing good can come from that. You just hope that your computer keeps running, or the server will stay up and move on.

Hard drives have manufacturer warranty no? What guarantee is Ubisoft giving us for a stable server? Shouldn't people be responsible for their own data? Besides, hard drives don't fail that often, so it's not really the best comparison is it?

Thats the way I see it. I always compare this to when records switched to tapes, or VHS to DVDs. Not everyone could afford to make the switch, so they either eventually had to, or are forced into vintage shops. That could be the case in the future, with old school gamers looking for off line only games as they become more rare over time. People dont like change, but that doesnt stop it from taking place.

Again, poor comparison. How can you possibly compare technology that advances for the convenience of the customers (VHS -> DVD; higher quality and more compact) to Ubisoft's technological 'advancement' that only serves to give more power to the company to control its own customers? (freedom of play -> OSP; online check for installation, constant online monitoring, dependence on company server, online save, no resell, etc, etc...)

A better comparison would be the government installing surveillance cameras on every new home and car you buy just in case you are involved in illegal activities. I doubt people will sit and go with the flow if that ever happens. Of course governments are harder to fight back than companies and that's exactly what people here are doing: rising up against Ubisoft's draconian DRM so that they will maybe reconsider implementing it before it is released. How are they going to know if people just stayed quiet? So people aren't making futile uproar if that's what you think it is. If they choose to continue with their new DRM policy then people will speak with their wallets and both parties will not be happy.

I always like to quote a line from my favorite rock band, Rush. "Always hopeful, yet discontent. He knows changes aren't permanent.... But change is".

Think about the bold part there. Ever since I heard that, when things change around me, I dont bitch about it, I change with it because thats all I can do. It makes my life easier.

So does that mean you're going to stop "bitch"ing about people's opinion of the new OSP on this board? Because clearly you haven't changed the general consensus on the OSP/DRM issue yet.

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by sober

Is it just me , does anyone else turn into this when the internet stops working .

What? The slowest loading picture in the universe?

[THE_MASK]

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

What? The slowest loading picture in the universe?

Knowing my luck it probably loaded my entire computer contents via some trojan as well .

[tater]

Originally Posted by trenken

The whole server going down thing to me just comes with the territory. Im just used to it.

Being used to not playing an online game when online doesn't work is one thing, it's part of the very concept. Being used to not playing an OFFLINE game because a server someplace in thye world doesn't work is, well, crazy.

If someone has a problem with DRM because they cant afford the internet, wont always have access to it, etc... I understand them not being acceptive of a single player only game requiring a connection. All Ive ever said is that MOST PC gamers these days that can afford to build a machine to even run these games can afford it.

You sound as if people who have a problem with their net connections cannot afford it. Before they moved a CO up close enough for my DSL connection, I had a long range, custom 802.11 setup---luckily from my house in the foothills I can see rooftops downtown---the set up alone was several hundred bucks, then my 1MB symmetric connection was more than DSL. Cost is not an object, frankly. We'd happily pay a couple hundred bucks a month for a really fast connection (even at 1.5 megabits, it takes a while for my wife to load up CT and MRI studies she needs to look at). Again, we simply cannot up here.

And if they cant get it at all, well what can you do? Everything is going online now, even single player games. Times are changing. That was my point.

The point virtually everyone else is making is that single-player games that don't gain value from a constant net-connection should not have one.

Servers go down, thats just the way things go. If your computer dies, do you blame someone else for not being able to play the game? No because nothing good can come from that. You just hope that your computer keeps running, or the server will stay up and move on. I dont see the sense in trying to wage a war against them when they arent the only ones doing this, everything is going online.

I can only assume you are paid to support this nonsense by someone. Really. It's bizzare. If MY machine fails (any of the 4 of them) it's my fault, AND I have more machines. If Ubi's server fails, they owe me money, IMO. I want to play NOW, and I cannot, it's THEIR fault.

BTW, I've owned computers since 1984, and remarkably I've never had one crash. Not ever. Course I replace stuff before it fails to avoid that. Meanwhile, every single online game has unscheduled downtime. All of them.

Its the natural progression of things, just as physical media will eventually go away as well. In 10 years you wont be able to find disc based games anymore. Digital distribution is the next natural wave of the future.

True, but requiring a tether is NOT the wave of the future, mobile devices are.

Thats the way I see it. I always compare this to when records switched to tapes, or VHS to DVDs. Not everyone could afford to make the switch, so they either eventually had to, or are forced into vintage shops. That could be the case in the future, with old school gamers looking for off line only games as they become more rare over time. People dont like change, but that doesnt stop it from taking place.

Again with the cost. It's not even an object for me, really. My connection is even pretty stable, in fact more stable than the Ubi forums---which is exactly as stable as you can expect their game servers to be (ie: not very).

You apparently argue that unresponsive, frustrating gameplay is the wave of the future and should be embraced. Some of us beg to differ.

I always like to quote a line from my favorite rock band, Rush. "Always hopeful, yet discontent. He knows changes aren't permanent.... But change is".

Think about the bold part there. Ever since I heard that, when things change around me, I dont bitch about it, I change with it because thats all I can do. It makes my life easier.

I used to listen to a lot of Rush. I bought that album when it was brand new, BTW.

You don't bitch about changes that will make your personal game time LESS enjoyable (the OSP can ONLY make it less enjoyable, or for the lucky exactly the same), but you DO make many posts about why no one else should bitch about it being less enjoyable. Odd, that. If you really felt as you pose, you'd simply not post at all, waste of time that it is. (the only plus, safety from personal HD failure is a non-issue since anyone with a good net connections and a brain that consists of more than 2 neurons held together with a spirochete has an offsite backup service anyway).

[tater]

Name one "Pro" of an "always on" internet requirement for an offline game?

Name ONE. Be specific as to why it has to always have a connection, not just when it is required to send/receive data (say when saving the game).