Features in SH1 and Aces That Have Since "Disappeared"

[Lanzfeld]

This is sad as ****!

I fell in love with subsims for all the above reasons and now all those reasons are gone because some needledicks feel they always have to reinvent the wheel to impress the A.D.D. idiots of the world.

I want Aces back with modern graphics...THAT IS ALL!!!!

[sayaret]

SH1 lot of stock and even more custom made historic scenarios.

[Subnuts]

I've just updated the list, including recommendations from you guys and a few other things I've thought of overnight.

Man. How freaking depressing. The quick mission generators from Aces and SH1 were both awesome - you could set the weather, escort size, the possibility of air cover, enemy skill, the time of day...but BAM! It suddenly disappeared in SH3.

[goldorak]

Originally Posted by Subnuts

I've just updated the list, including recommendations from you guys and a few other things I've thought of overnight.

Man. How freaking depressing. The quick mission generators from Aces and SH1 were both awesome - you could set the weather, escort size, the possibility of air cover, enemy skill, the time of day...but BAM! It suddenly disappeared in SH3.

The quick mission generator was lost, but a dynamic campaign was gained.
I still remember how people were up in arms telling, shouting like they wouldn't buy SH 3 if it had scripted missions or a mission editor.
They wanted a dynamic campaign. Complete randomness. They got it, Ubisoft pushed back SH 3 to include what many of the hardcore group wanted.
Really good games, good simulations can be developed without having a dynamic campaign. In most cases a mission generator like that in SH I, or like that found in Wings over Vietnam is pretty good.
DW was "ostricized" by many in this community because god help us it didn't have a dynamic campaign. All the while ignoring the fact that the game had an extremely powerfull mission editor.
Damned if you do damned if you don't.
This is what game developers must be thinking.

[Subnuts]

Originally Posted by goldorak

The quick mission generator was lost, but a dynamic campaign was gained.

SH1 and Aces had a random campaign in the vein of SH3 and SH4. None of them are truly "dynamic" (like Falcon 4) in that sinking aircraft carriers or large tankers doesn't alter the outcome of the war one bit.

[goldorak]

Originally Posted by Subnuts

SH1 and Aces had a random campaign in the vein of SH3 and SH4. None of them are truly "dynamic" (like Falcon 4) in that sinking aircraft carriers or large tankers doesn't alter the outcome of the war one bit.

Since the SH series is about recreating the historical experience of being a sub driver during WW2, it is pretty clear that whatever actions you take cannot influence the outcome of the war. Otherwise we would be playing a fictional scenario and this is what most players don't want.

Falcon 4 didin't have only a dynamic campaign, it simulated an entire war theater on air, land and sea. And it could do it precisely because there were no constraints as to the outcome of the conflict. So your actions actually had effects on the ongoing campaign.

The SH series never had this kind of freedom. So what we get for all pratical purposes is a dynamic campaign that is nothing more than a glorified random mission generator. So options that in SH I had to be set explicitely (such as time of mission, weather conditions etc...) are now in SH 3 created dynamically by the game engine without user intervention. You still get to sail on rough seas, or by clear weather. But like real life sub captains you get no say as to how the weather will be during your mission. Is this a step backwards ? In terms of realism no.
In terms of feature creep yes. But feature creep is the bane of software, so Ubisoft has done well by not throwing everything and the kitchen sink inside SH 3 and/or SH 4.

[floundericiousWA]

Originally Posted by goldorak

Since the SH series is about recreating the historical experience of being a sub driver during WW2, it is pretty clear that whatever actions you take cannot influence the outcome of the war. Otherwise we would be playing a fictional scenario and this is what most players don't want.

Well...we ARE playing a fictional scenario in SH3/SH4, no?

Actually I want the chance to vicariously live the experience of a WWII submarine captain/kaleun with many of the strategic evolutions taking place while I play...and the chance, just the slightest chance, that my success or failure will make a difference in the trajectory of the war in my chosen theater.

If I sink the three or four British CVs in and around the NorthEast Atlantic within six months, does that impact the battle for Malta?

If I manage to sink 15 or 20 of the really big T3 tankers in 1940, does that cause a difference in the battle of britain?

If I sink a significant number of destroyers in convoy attacks, does that weaken escorts in the atlantic convoy system?

If I sink several passenger transports during 1942/43, does that impact the planning/execution of Overlord?

wash, rinse, repeat for the pacific theater with the fleet boats!

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Lanzfeld

I want Aces back with modern graphics...THAT IS ALL!!!!

People said as much when SH3 was under development. And I agree, but I have grown to like the crew management, especially in SH4. I also of course want modern sound.

To add to the list, though:

Aces: Bottoming the boat would actually make you harder to detect. On the downside you could get stuck in the mud and not be able to get unstuck, so you and your crew died.

Aces also had the most realistic damage-control screen ever - a blueprint of the boat, with damaged circled, and clicking on the circles took you to a simple report by the Chief telling you what, where and when.

SH1: The tear-off calendar with lunar phases, moon and sun rise and set times, and the weather.

SH1 also had super-thick fog in dead calm weather, as described already for Aces, and it was wonderful.

[janh]

Someone still know Silent Service on C64? Or Silent Service II on PC? Oh man, good old times.

Aces of the Deep definitely remains my all time favorite sub sim. Still have it, and after the new Ubisoft DRM blunder it maybe time to pull it out again. ;-)
Sure, graphics were awesome, but it had all to make an historically sufficiently accurate subsim. A good simulation.
If someone could polish up the graphics to 1024x768, doesn't even need fancy textures and light effects, but just be a good physics and AI simulation. I'd never leave it again.

[Ducimus]

Sh1 with Sh4 graphics would be the end all be all submarine simulation in my opinion. Nothing would ever top that i don't think. That would be a sub sim i could easily play off and on for the next decade.

I miss SSI.

[Sonarman]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

Sh1 with Sh4 graphics would be the end all be all submarine simulation in my opinion. Nothing would ever top that i don't think. That would be a sub sim i could easily play off and on for the next decade.

Whilst the original Aces of the Deep team are scattered to the four winds, the original "Silent Hunter" team are actually still working together perhaps we could ask them to fulfill your dream?

[Subnuts]

But, but...I never mentioned this in my OP, but SH5 is pretty!


(I'm sorry if this screenshot isn't big enough.)

[IanC]

Yeah, and in a couple of years a kid will post "dude SH5 looks like soooo dated! It doesn't even use DX12..."

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Subnuts

(I'm sorry if this screenshot isn't big enough.)

It also isn't an annoying slow-to-load .png!

[IanC]

Originally Posted by Sonarman

Whilst the original Aces of the Deep team are scattered to the four winds, the original "Silent Hunter" team are actually still working together perhaps we could ask them to fulfill your dream?

Somebody (in 'the biz' or with influence) should seriously contact these guys and propose it.