Getting a 'sinking' feeling about SH5

[Méo]

Originally Posted by Uber Gruber

If we do not voice our desires now then we should not expect them to be accomodated.

Therefore, if you have a requirement for SH5 you should shout loudly from the roof tops...and shout now!

I agree and that's not the problem IMHO.

The thing is that everytime something new comes, lot of people here seem to be acting like groupies and become hysterical.

You can express some doubts, shout it, but there's a difference between this and saying that it's gonna be an inevitable failure everytime there's a little sample of an unfinished product that comes out.

Try to think if you were Dan, would you like to come here after a hard day at work and spend time reading those threads where most of the comments are continuously bashing your work? Would this motivate you to interact more with this community?

[JScones]

Originally Posted by Méo

The thing is that everytime something new comes, lot of people here seem to be acting like groupies and become hysterical.

You can express some doubts, shout it, but there's a difference between this and saying that it's gonna be an inevitable failure everytime there's a little sample of an unfinished product that comes out.

Meo, it's called hyperbole. It reflects much more on the person writing it than it impacts on the devs reading it.

Originally Posted by Méo

Try to think if you were Dan, would you like to come here after a hard day at work and spend time reading those threads where most of the comments are continuously bashing your work? Would this motivate you to interact more with this community?

It would motivate me to interact more!

All this speculation would make me realise that I hadn't been providing useful information, or what I had been providing was missing the mark.

So, to mitigate much of the whining and complaining--which will not go away--I'd consider some approaches that other currently in-development games are using. I'd at least start with providing real answers to meaningful questions, (like "the game will model the following u-boat types" rather than the current "we'll possibly think about the possibility of possibly considering adding bum fluff"). Hopefully Neal can make some progress on this front.

If there's nothing to hide, why hide it?

So you've got to go back a step: why all the scepticism in the first place? And the answer is because of the lack of informative information provided by Ubisoft. What has been provided raises more questions than it answers. Fix that aspect and much of the problem goes away. You can't change how people react, but you can certainly change what they react to.

So my point: communication is a two way street and you reap what you sew.

Failing that, well, I'm sure Dan has broad shoulders.

[Méo]

Originally Posted by JScones

I'd at least start with providing real answers to meaningful questions

I agree, this is a problem.

Originally Posted by JScones

It would motivate me to interact more!

So you've got to go back a step:

Why should I go back a step, what's true for you is not necessarily true for him or for everyone.

Personally, I would feel like: whatever we do, they're always gonna panic and say it's a failure, so **** **.

Sometimes I would feel like: bah, they're only a bit too passionate...

[IanC]

You see, some people here think we (subsim.com members) are the be-all, end-all of submarine simulations and therefore are owed answers to questions. When the ugly truth is that subsim members make for only a tiny percentage of Silent Hunter copies sold. So who are we, really, to demand answers... it would be a nice personal gesture for sure, but I don't get my panties in a bunch if Ubi keeps hush hush while in development.
Did Lucas provide answers to Star Wars fans before a big release?

[JScones]

Originally Posted by IanC

You see, some people here think we (subsim.com members) are the be-all, end-all of submarine simulations and therefore are owed answers to questions. When the ugly truth is that subsim members make for only a tiny percentage of Silent Hunter copies sold. So who are we, really, to demand answers... it would be a nice personal gesture for sure, but I don't get my panties in a bunch if Ubi keeps hush hush while in development

If we're so inconsequential as you state (btw, I'd like to know your source on this because I think you are just guessing the percentage, which removes all credibility from your argument), then why are the devs more active here than at the "official" Ubi forums? Heck, why do they even bother with us at all if we are "nothing" as you want to imply.

Considering the devs are quite happy to cultivate our ideas, I don't see a problem in asking questions in return.

[TDK1044]

Originally Posted by JScones

If we're so inconsequential as you state (btw, I'd like to know your source on this because I think you are just guessing the percentage, which removes all credibility from your argument), then why are the devs more active here than at the "official" Ubi forums? Heck, why do they even bother with us at all if we are "nothing" as you want to imply.

Considering the devs are quite happy to cultivate our ideas, I don't see a problem in asking questions in return.

I think the Devs choose to come here on their private time for two reasons. Firstly, they respect the fact that Neal set subsim up with his own money, and that the site continues to be successful because of his input and the contributions of the members here.

Contrast that with the offical Ubisoft forum, which was set up and paid for by Ubisoft as a dumping ground for their end users in the hope that having such a site would cut down the call volume to the Ubisoft call center.

The second reason that the Devs come here is because they are genuinely interested in how the subsim community is wanting to mod the game. In addition, they choose to interact with the forum on some of the questions posed.

Whatever my opinion has been of Ubisoft as a publisher over the years, my respect for Dan, Mihai and the others is huge. These guys have gone above and beyond for the Silent Hunter Series.

Dan and Mihai should both be honorary recipients of the Best Of Subsim avatar.

[elanaiba]

I'm not really Dan, I'm just a "virtual actor" paid to behave like a smarter version of him.

[Adriatico]

Absolutely true TDK1044

But there is small problem here...

We are not going to buy and play "Dan and Mihai" DVD... but SHV, which has very specific and real issues...as title of this thread said, as well as initial post has described.


So heavy grey clouds remain above SHV simulator ...as starter of this thread emphasized.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by TDK1044

Whatever my opinion has been of Ubisoft as a publisher over the years, my respect for Dan, Mihai and the others is huge. These guys have gone above and beyond for the Silent Hunter Series.

Dan and Mihai should both be honorary recipients of the Best Of Subsim avatar.

I agree wholeheartedly.

Originally Posted by elanaiba

I'm not really Dan, I'm just a "virtual actor" paid to behave like a smarter version of him.

Likewise, GreyOctober is another virtual actor. His role is a "silly version of Dan".

I'm glad to see you're keeping your great sense of humor through all this.

Originally Posted by TDK1044

I think of you, Mihai and GreyOctober as Athos, Porthos and Aramis, Dan. Three lunatics riding around on horses shouting "All for one. One for all. Show me the money! We've worked our asses off. Where's our money?!

Neal of course is d'Artagnan....chasing after you on a pre-owned donkey shouting "where's our game?"

So Dan is a bitter but wise man with a tragic past, whose main goal in life is to drink himself into oblivion.

Mihai is a friendly but not-to-bright giant who follows a rough crowd because he doesn't know any better, and will die because of his friend's treason.

Grey October is ambitious beyond his capabilities, dreams of becoming a simple priest but will ultimately try to take over the world, all the while wishing he could go back to his old life, and whose best friend will die cursing him.

And poor Neal, the ingenue who may well be the best ever at what he does, but is doomed to a life of mediocrity, can only rise to his full measure by throwing in with his enemies, and will die on the very day he achieves his fondest goal.

Sorry, I know you weren't being that literal, but the simile was so much fun I couldn't help myself.

[IanC]

Originally Posted by JScones

If we're so inconsequential as you state (btw, I'd like to know your source on this because I think you are just guessing the percentage, which removes all credibility from your argument), then why are the devs more active here than at the "official" Ubi forums? Heck, why do they even bother with us at all if we are "nothing" as you want to imply.

Considering the devs are quite happy to cultivate our ideas, I don't see a problem in asking questions in return.

Well...How many hundred thousands of copies do they sell of, say, just SH3? A web search will show you that the SH series sold over 1.5 milllion copies world wide. You do the math about forum posters vs copies sold... it's not that hard to come to a conclusion.

And nothing wrong with asking questions, but there is a problem if people start complaining about lack of answers. Because that's not how it works.
You see, Ubi is a hot babe and her equally hot girlfriends (the devs) are way out of our league. You can go ahead and call them all you want, but don't expect them to call back.

[Adriatico]

Originally Posted by IanC

And nothing wrong with asking questions, but there is a problem if people start complaining about lack of answers. Because that's not how it works.
You see, Ubi is a hot babe and her equally hot girlfriends (the devs) are way out of our league. You can go ahead and call them all you want, but don't expect them to call back.

Well... we had an avalange of genuine questions and concerns, in variety of threads, and finally we had an answer:
" I'm not really Dan, I'm just a "virtual actor" paid to behave like a smarter version of him."

Many thanks for answer WIP member of this forum, many thanks for your effort in development... but every member with some "grey compound within skull" should find this current situation at forum- pointless (if not humiliating)

So... I am "bailing out" from this forum (sorry Neal) till some less senseless times... somewere in April/May2010.

I deeply apologise to "untouchables" for shaking their sky and I apologise to simulation fans for my apparently "useless effort" - to help our comunnity and our future hobby and passion.

Best regards to all members... and see you in a near (more constructive) future...

Originally Posted by IanC

Well...How many hundred thousands of copies do they sell of, say, just SH3? A web search will show you that the SH series sold over 1.5 milllion copies world wide. You do the math about forum posters vs copies sold... it's not that hard to come to a conclusion.

And nothing wrong with asking questions, but there is a problem if people start complaining about lack of answers. Because that's not how it works.
You see, Ubi is a hot babe and her equally hot girlfriends (the devs) are way out of our league. You can go ahead and call them all you want, but don't expect them to call back.

Who appointed you judge?

[Adriatico]

Originally Posted by Méo

You can express some doubts, shout it, but there's a difference between this and saying that it's gonna be an inevitable failure everytime there's a little sample of an unfinished product that comes out.

Try to think if you were Dan, would you like to come here after a hard day at work and spend time reading those threads where most of the comments are continuously bashing your work? Would this motivate you to interact more with this community?

Little sample ?
You call main combat "periscope screen" presented in video - little sample?
No mate, it is one of main features in simulator... if not the main one.
It determins, more or less, playability of sub-simulator.

Unfinished product ? ...looked quite finished to me.

I guess that Dan is having hard days after work, but this was last minute desparate attempt to influence something...before it goes on stamping and packing.

Hundreds of us are haveing a hard day after work (less attracive than Dan's, I guess...) so don't we have a right to rise our voice - if we want to have fun with simulator that we are supposed to buy and have some fun in the evening... or not to have a fun.

When would be the right time to rise our voices? In March2010... when Dan is less tired?

[Méo]

Originally Posted by Adriatico

so don't we have a right to rise our voice

When would be the right time to rise our voices? In March2010... when Dan is less tired?

I've said it before I'll say it again...

It's not about the right to rise your voice or not, it's about every time something is release, lot of people here are jumping to conclusions, panicing, saying it's a failure, and blablabla...