What can we really expect from SHV?

[Platapus]

Originally Posted by jerm138

If I had one wish for SH5 it would be for a better solution to the "update contacts" options. Right now, we can either turn them off completely (unrealistic, because in real life, the skipper doesn't plot dots... he has a tracking party for that) or turn them on and have a 100% accurate real-time representation of the situation... not far from using an external camera, and pretty unrealistic too.

My solution would be a "mark" button similar to the "Send data to TDC" button, except it sends the data to the plot. For instance, I'm looking at a contact in the scope and I estimate it's range and dial it in. Click the "mark" button and a time-stamped mark is placed on the plotter based on my range estimate and bearing. If I estimated the range incorrectly, I now have an incorrect dot on the plot. This would require the player (in 100% realism) to make his own range estimates manualy, without having to take the time to manually plot the dots since real skippers have people to do that for them.

Absolutely what is needed in a sub simulator.

The crew/computer with absolute precision plots the information the Kaluen/player gives it. To be even more accurate, the quality of the plotting crew could be included -- Kaluen says bearing 152 but plots 150 sometimes.

But yes, your suggestion (and the other posts on the same concept) is what is missing from the SH3/4. The player is forced into either two unrealistic situations

1. Crew has GPS and omnipresent information on everything

2. Kaluen is alone on the sub

Neither one of these is accurate. The Kaluen did have people to assist him. But these people were blind and totally dependent on the reported observations of the Kaleun. I would very much like to see a simulation where the computer does what it does (plot things graphically) and allows/forces the player to do what they enjoy/do best, make the observations. This, to me, is much better than the dichotomy we have with the two unrealistic situations above.

I, as the Kaluen, should not be forced to take myself way from the scope to manually make little marks on the plot. My job as the Kaluen is to make the observations and to interpret the plot and make the command decisions.

[finchOU]

Originally Posted by Platapus

I, as the Kaluen, should not be forced to take myself way from the scope to manually make little marks on the plot. My job as the Kaluen is to make the observations and to interpret the plot and make the command decisions.

I've mentioned this before...and hoped it would/will be implemented in SHV. It would seem to me to be somewhat basic of an addition....but thats just me!

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...highlight=Mark

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...highlight=Mark

and this "electronic Manuevering board?- or the ability to plot info on contacts with a "mark" button or something. Right now I have to do 4 things at once.....start the clock....take a bearing.....take a range....and mark the ships current position. A "mark" button(command) maybe could write down current bearing you are looking at the current time and plots current ships position...all info on the map. All I would have to do is take a distance and plot out from marked ships position. A Manuevering board eliminates the Ships Position part because is deals strickly with relative bearing and distance based on own ships current"

from this older thread: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...ht=Mark&page=5

[karamazovnew]

Originally Posted by JScones

So, your detailed post is based on three vague comments? And you don't consider it speculation?

You now say "I have no idea how the damage system in SH5 works", which is a full admission that you are speculating.

Anyway, as an aside, I find it funny how hypocritical some people here can be. Someone sees a screenshot and speculates that the visible healthbar*=bad, and it's instantly dismissed with equal speculation (usually written like it's fact) that it's good. Yet, if someone criticises the speculation that it's good, God help them...

*insert any SH5 feature here.

You've not criticised my "good speculation", all you've done was criticise ME, call me a hypocrite and then used your own words as a shield to prevent me from defending myself without appearing as a speculation fan-boy. And if you do that, at least don't use a plural. That offended me more.

When it comes to SH5, I'm an optimist and I have very high expectations from the game. So every time I see missing features (which I had hoped for) in either screenshots, trailers or dev comments, I'm probably more disappointed than others and I voice my concerns in strong terms. Some features however have been pounded by the community although the devs have stated repeatedly that the player will be able to turn off features and they've also made improvements in those areas both in terms of realism and user-friendliness.
"Q: Will we be able to turn health bars off?
A: Yes.
Q: Will the damage system be like the one in SH3?
A: No, it's much better, we've implemented realistic boyancy"

What more do you want? They've said they added buoyancy and you've seen a flood bar above the ship. How is that not proof of what they've said? It's as good a fact as the fact that SH5 will be about the Atlantic war, because they said it is (maybe they're lying and it's about Fleet Boats). Sure, it might not be a GOOD representation of the Atlantic war, and the buoyancy system might suck, that's why I said that I can't know yet how it works (good or bad). The rest of my post was just an example as to how even a simple hit-point system can approximate real physics to a good degree.

[JScones]

Defend away, if you feel you need to.

[JScones]

Originally Posted by jerm138

Does anyone know if the first-person, running around the boat thing will be mandatory or optional?

I read--almost 100% certain it was from a Ubisoft source--that players can still use the function keys to move around, ala SH3/4. Just can't remember now where I read it.

[jerm138]

This doesn't sound very promising, though:

The player will have full access everywhere inside the submarine. Just like in any other first person game and just like a real captain had. But remember, you’re not just a camera, you’re the captain. Don’t go sunbathing on the fore deck or you’ll have a long way to go to that conning tower hatch before the sub can dive!

From the Ubi forum

[tomoose]

I would tend to agree with WEBSTER's early post in that trying to please the arcade/FPS shooter crowd (aka: the younger, console addicts) that UBI is barking up the wrong tree.
If the arcade stuff can be toggled on/off and the die-hard subsimmers are able to mod to their hearts content then we (the authenticity/realism crowd) will have the game we're hoping for and everybody's happy (well, almost everybody, someone will always have something to bitch about, LOL).
I don't believe however that adding the "dumbing-down" elements to this franchise is going to bring any dramatic increase in sales as the arcade/console crowd need/want fast paced action and lots of blood and explosions (I know, I'm generalizing but you get my point). A subsim, by it's very nature, is a game of patience and tactics etc, dumbing it down doesn't really change that.
All that being said, March is not that far away and the release of the 'final' product (patches/bugs notwithstanding) will decide all. I, for one, am still enjoying the SH3/GWX experience and will happily stick with that if SH5 turns out to be a lemon.

[kapitan_zur_see]

Come on guys, stop speculating about health bars, nothing to worry about! It's realistic anyway! don't you know they do exist in real life? Ask the guys here who served on warships or look at some pictures:

See above this task force?



Look at those crewmen doing repairs and trying to fix their broken one after an attack:



Definite proof IMHO

Originally Posted by sober

My prediction is that SH5 wont be a simulation but it will be a first person shooter style submarine game .

You got that right Sober, you can stop worrying at last
IT IS an arcade shooting game indeed, and i've even got proof now!

BEHOLD THE REALISM OF...
SILENT HUNTER 5 - The arcade game!



Talk about manual targeting...!

[Sailor Steve]

Good stuff, KzS!

[JScones]

I might have to pay more attention to KzS's posts!

[IanC]

Originally Posted by karamazovnew

You've not criticised my "good speculation", all you've done was criticise ME, call me a hypocrite and then used your own words as a shield to prevent me from defending myself without appearing as a speculation fan-boy. And if you do that, at least don't use a plural. That offended me more.

When it comes to SH5, I'm an optimist and I have very high expectations from the game. So every time I see missing features (which I had hoped for) in either screenshots, trailers or dev comments, I'm probably more disappointed than others and I voice my concerns in strong terms. Some features however have been pounded by the community although the devs have stated repeatedly that the player will be able to turn off features and they've also made improvements in those areas both in terms of realism and user-friendliness.
"Q: Will we be able to turn health bars off?
A: Yes.
Q: Will the damage system be like the one in SH3?
A: No, it's much better, we've implemented realistic boyancy"

What more do you want? They've said they added buoyancy and you've seen a flood bar above the ship. How is that not proof of what they've said? It's as good a fact as the fact that SH5 will be about the Atlantic war, because they said it is (maybe they're lying and it's about Fleet Boats). Sure, it might not be a GOOD representation of the Atlantic war, and the buoyancy system might suck, that's why I said that I can't know yet how it works (good or bad). The rest of my post was just an example as to how even a simple hit-point system can approximate real physics to a good degree.

Well said

[finchOU]

Watch: "Health Bar on the Horizon Sir!"

Captain: "what type of ship is it Seaman?"

Watch: "I cant tell but she's at 100% health!"

[Platapus]

Originally Posted by finchOU

Watch: "Health Bar on the Horizon Sir!"

Captain: "what type of ship is it Seaman?"

Watch: "I cant tell but she's at 100% health!"

Just like in Stock SH#

Watch: Bridge, Sub sighted!

Bridge: Where away?

Watch: Right under that red "X" sir!

[Col. Caldwell]

Originally Posted by Platapus

Just like in Stock SH#

Watch: Bridge, Sub sighted!

Bridge: Where away?

Watch: Right under that red "X" sir!

Red X? What, are we hunting for buried treasure?

[Steeltrap]

My view is MOST of what's needed in an Atlantic WWII subsim was present in the modded SHIII (NYGM or GWX).

Realism, realism, realism....with SOME compromises for gameplay/resource constraints.

Let's face it:

- assigned orders to patrol zones
- dynamic contact reports
- potential for wolfpack actions
- correct sensor performances based on technical specs, experience and weather.
- crew rosters/assignments
- weather
- observations leading to plotting leading to firing solution.
- weapons (performance, especially for guns)
- damage modelling

Get those 'realistic', by which I mean a reasonable representation based on the abundant real-life records, and you're a LONG way to making a great sim.

THEN make it look nice.

IF SH5 is SHIII in SH4+ engine without addressing all those points then .

Some simple tests I want to see are:

- surface attacks at night
- detection/evasion, surfaced and submerged
- selectable 'contact frequency' (i.e. yippee shoot, moderate, realistic)

Get those right and I'm pretty sold. Another way of looking at it is asking "what did NYGM/GWX attempt to 'fix'?" and then SH5 should have those 'fixed' at time of release.

Cheers

(p.s. I posted this in another thread and was feeling lazy so i just cc + pasted)