What can we really expect from SHV?

[TDK1044]

So once you strip away the usual rhetoric, what can we really expect from Silent Hunter V? We've now seen some 'in game' videos and screenshots. We've also seen an interview with Dan. I'm sure there's more to come.

I think a pattern is evolving that shows us that we can basically expect a graphically improved, bells and whistles version of Silent Hunter IV patched to 1.5, with the addition of the 'first person' to give a much better crew interraction.

Reading between the lines, I don't believe it will be a SIM, although I think that it will be very modable. I also don't believe it will be an Arcade Game. I believe it will be a video game that can be modded up by the usual suspects, or dumbed way down using the Options tab.

I think that Ubisoft are pinning their hopes on the casual gamers to increase sales with this version of the Silent Hunter series. That won't please many here, but if allowing the game to be dumbed down via 'Options' increases sales and guarantees the continuation of the franchise, then it's not an issue as long as the game is very modable for those of us seeking a more realistic experience.

Based on what I've seen, I like the look and feel of Silent Hunter V. I think the Devs have taken on board observations and some criticism from members here, and I think they have done their best to deliver the standard of game demanded here, while also giving their employer what it demands from the game.

My greatest wish is that it's finished when it's released. I was disappointed with both SHIII and SHIV in that regard. To have to patch a game within a month of its release in order to fix 'game critical' issues is laughable, and I really hope that Ubisoft doesn't take us down that road again.

So, as we all wait for March 2010, I have more hope for SHV than I ever did for SHIII or SHIV.

What do you guys think?

[urfisch]

ubi tries, as mentioned by themselves, to satisfy on one hand us, as the core community and on the other hand, the wide spread gamers out there. this is what we see, when looking at a strongly simplified interface in the last trailer on ubi-tv.

i think they wont have much success. the non-simmers are the target group of this game. cause they are a much larger group than we, as hardcore simmers. so we will have a game, that is much more for fun, than for feeling. when i read of a step-by-step dynamic campaign...i get a cold cripped up my spine.

all we can hope is, that ubi opens up enough possibbilities for us, to mod the game, we want to. AND, that we get a well styled gameplay...i am not really happy with all i see until now. but, what do we expect? they are a big gaming company, not the simmer-hq-developer.

i often thought, this game should have been developed further on by a group of this community, who lend some money and build up a small sim-gaming company, like ssi...in the 90s. then we would have a great game.

[GoldenRivet]

personally, i think the first person view issue is going to totally change the way the game is played.

instead of clicking dials or gauges we will now be interacting directly with officers who in turn will be relaying instructions to subordinates.

for those players who are used to playing almost all of the game from a map screen, or a periscope screen and hot keying from station to station... you're in for a major change to the experience.

while it is true... there are only so many ways to make a world war 2 subsim, or a combat flight sim or a boxing game etc.

the dev team has most likley - greatly changed the way players approach the game play, not only that major change has taken place, but we are likely to see a completely new weather engine (which was a major let down in SH3 and 4.

yes... at first glance it does look a lot like a graphics upgrade.

to the untrained eye.

however, i think SH5 is going to totally revolutionize the way submarine simulations are played and the way they are developed.

gone are the days of 2D interface screens.

gone are the days of complete limitation to one or two compartments or views.

Originally Posted by TDK1044

My greatest wish is that it's finished when it's released. I was disappointed with both SHIII and SHIV in that regard. To have to patch a game within a month of its release in order to fix 'game critical' issues is laughable, and I really hope that Ubisoft doesn't take us down that road again.

in this regard i would encourage you to prepare yet again for disappointment.

no game or program is ever released "perfect" on the first try... the very thought that such a thing is possible is completely rediculous.

the game WILL require patching, updating and modding to meet the taste of individual players.

[TDK1044]

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

no game or program is ever released "perfect" on the first try... the very thought that such a thing is possible is completely rediculous.

the game WILL require patching, updating and modding to meet the taste of individual players.

Nobody expects perfect. Silent Hunter IV was released in an unfinished state for one reason only....insufficient development time. The Devs were having to patch things that could and should have been implemented prior to release.

There is a big difference in patching to tweak and enhance, and patching to fix basic errors. The latter is unacceptable.

i think ubi is barking up the wrong tree here, the reason they dont have sales to the casual gamers is casual gamers want fps fast action with lots of things going on and a subsim by its very definition is a dramatic slow pased strategy game so your not going to sell an underwater chess game to a bunch of playstation shooter geeks, its just never going to happen.

i see sh5 as a "possible" major flop that could and very likely "will" put an end to the continuation of the silent hunter franchise.

"if" they intend to make sh5 a non subsim game then its a bad choice that could and i suspect "will" blow up in their face and cause major financial losses to the company.

"silent hunter the video game" wont sell to the "fps gamers crowd" or the true "subsim" crowd that may not all want the same level of realism but they do want it based on realism.

in trying to appeal to both markets i fear they will end up with something that neither one wants to buy.

i would have rather see them do a sh3 expansion that adds the sh4 grafics and a new game engine instead.

[TDK1044]

That is certainly the risk they run, WEBSTER. Only time will tell if they have it right.

[SteamWake]

Wow what a bunch of pessimists...

I just hope they dont subcomb to pressure to "Get the product on the shelf" even though it is not finished like what happened to SH4.

[GoldenRivet]

Originally Posted by TDK1044

Nobody expects perfect. Silent Hunter IV was released in an unfinished state for one reason only....insufficient development time. The Devs were having to patch things that could and should have been implemented prior to release.

There is a big difference in patching to tweak and enhance, and patching to fix basic errors. The latter is unacceptable.

Agreed.

for example the "A" key crash was the very reason i shelved SH4 on DAY ONE.

as someone with beta testing experience (limited though it may be) i can assure you that testing a game is not fun... it is strictly business and it is work.

though i agree that some of the more basic issues with SH4 should have been caught by even the most novice kindergartner - it is impossible to find and fix EVERY issue.

even if you spend an entire year in testing.

as far as being pessimistic... i think we are being realistic.

Subsims exist for a very niche market.

always have and always will exist to fill this very specific market segment. I dont know that ubi is trying to dumb down SH5 so that joe blow off the street would pluck it off the shelf and give it a try... but if they are this could be a critical mistake.

i say "critical mistake" because of one major thing...

making a game scalable in its difficulty so that it can appeal to a brain dead idiot all the way up to a subnautical super genious and all points in between is VERY DIFFICULT to do without completely ruining game play experience for one or another group of fans.

if not implemented correctly - this shot at making the game marketable to "all" could end the franchise as it can alienate the core community which is the very reason games like this should exist in the first place.

Originally Posted by SteamWake

Wow what a bunch of pessimists...

I just hope they dont subcomb to pressure to "Get the product on the shelf" even though it is not finished like what happened to SH4.

im keeping an open mind but looking at everything they have said and what i have seen is why i feel the way i do.

i must say being overly possative is just as silly as being overly negative so you cant assume all roses and sunshine either until you see what we get.

[TDK1044]

I agree with you totally, Golden Rivet.

[TDK1044]

Originally Posted by SteamWake

Wow what a bunch of pessimists...

I just hope they dont subcomb to pressure to "Get the product on the shelf" even though it is not finished like what happened to SH4.

I'm not pessimistic, SteamWake, I'm actually guardedly optimistic. I think SHV will be a lot of fun, but I think it will offer more dumbing down options than previous versions. Some will refer to this as the game becoming an Arcade Game. To me, it will be a game that can be modded up or dumbed down to individual preference and to a greater degree than previous versions.

[Ritmeister]

Originally Posted by TDK1044

Reading between the lines, I don't believe it will be a SIM, although I think that it will be very modable. I also don't believe it will be an Arcade Game. I believe it will be a video game that can be modded up by the usual suspects, or dumbed way down using the Options tab.

I think that Ubisoft are pinning their hopes on the casual gamers to increase sales with this version of the Silent Hunter series. That won't please many here, but if allowing the game to be dumbed down via 'Options' increases sales and guarantees the continuation of the franchise, then it's not an issue as long as the game is very modable for those of us seeking a more realistic experience.

What do you guys think?

Excellent analysis IMHO.. I've held back from almost all discussions on SH5 except for one or two comments. I do feel though you've got it pretty much right. Personally I find the interface items the most disturbing (along with hit meters).It looks "very" close to being an arcade game with fancy graphics; which is exactly what none of us here wanted. But the dollar rules. Maybe things can be rescued by the modders.( we'll need you guys big time) They have done simply amazing things in the past, and even right up to today.

I just hope UBI hasn't created a camel! Which as we all know is a horse designed by committee.

Not too much of a market for camels is there?

[Ritmeister]

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

Agreed.


i say "critical mistake" because of one major thing...

making a game scalable in its difficulty so that it can appeal to a brain dead idiot all the way up to a subnautical super genious and all points in between is VERY DIFFICULT to do without completely ruining game play experience for one or another group of fans.

if not implemented correctly - this shot at making the game marketable to "all" could end the franchise as it can alienate the core community which is the very reason games like this should exist in the first place.

Excellent! Why can't they see the way this "may" be headed? I've seen this path before when developers went the mas appeal route and it alienated everyone.

[GoldenRivet]

Originally Posted by WEBSTER

i must say being overly possative is just as silly as being overly negative so you cant assume all roses and sunshine either until you see what we get.

Well said, we will see what we get all in good time.

However, when i pull the shrink wrap off this thing and install it.

there is no excuse for basic bugs and howlers like the infamous "A key crash"

im going to have to tweak the realism because i dont want to see "health bars" above the ships (which no offense to the dev team intended... but that is by far the dumbest idea for a subsim i have ever heard of period)

i think for the majority of the subsim community the following can be said...

We expect SH5 to be the ultimate in cumulative realism over the course of the franchise, however we are shown videos of SH5 with health bars and flooding bars above the ships and point and shoot style torpedo attacks and all we can think is...

WTF?

so far... the marketing on SH5 has been terrible.

all we have had a glimpse of has been a few short videos of the most basic easy setting game play.

what we crave is a video of a carefully planned attack, or a deck gun barrage etc.

when SH3 was marketed the dedicated web site had a whole series of videos demonstrating various things like navigation, attack, AAA, and deck gun use etc. all i could do was sit and watch all day long and salivate over them... anxiously awaiting the release date.

i was so impressed with SH3 marketing that i had a back up plan for buying SH3 on release date should something occur which had me out of town or at work.

I also set aside spare money just in case something happened financially speaking where i could still afford to buy SH3.

- I'm not getting that vibe with SH5. its almost as if Ubi is trying to intentionally avoid marketing the game to "us"

so far... since first hearing of SH5... all we have seen is this basic black web site with a forum button a register button and a single concept video.

so it is understandable how many of the franchise veterans are scratching their heads.

[TDK1044]

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

Well said, we will see what we get all in good time.

However, when i pull the shrink wrap off this thing and install it.

there is no excuse for basic bugs and howlers like the infamous "A key crash"

im going to have to tweak the realism because i dont want to see "health bars" above the ships (which no offense to the dev team intended... but that is by far the dumbest idea for a subsim i have ever heard of period)

i think for the majority of the subsim community the following can be said...

We expect SH5 to be the ultimate in cumulative realism over the course of the franchise, however we are shown videos of SH5 with health bars and flooding bars above the ships and point and shoot style torpedo attacks and all we can think is...

WTF?

so far... the marketing on SH5 has been terrible.

all we have had a glimpse of has been a few short videos of the most basic easy setting game play.

what we crave is a video of a carefully planned attack, or a deck gun barrage etc.

when SH3 was marketed the dedicated web site had a whole series of videos demonstrating various things like navigation, attack, AAA, and deck gun use etc.

so far... since first hearing of SH5... all we have seen is this basic black web site with a forum button a register button and a single concept video.

so it is understandable how many of the franchise veterans are scratching their heads.

Great points made here.