New Interface for Uboats

[makman94]

oh Darkfish...if only i knew that when i was making the TMT.... i would have save a lot of time ! ( where are these infos when you need them...).VERY GOOD METHOD you pointed !

@Nisgeis: you can get the length in game .i measured Bismarck's length and found it 'close' to 270m .i am saying 'close' becuase the clock in sh4 is showing only seconds (without demicals) .the time that Bismarck needed to cross the vertical line of peri was something between 87-88 sec .i took it as 87.5 and then length=(6x87.5x1.852)/3.6= 270.08333

i measured it again with the method suggested by Darkfish and the s3d showed length=270.9
the difference is not big deal (the cause of the difference is the exact time that Bismarck needed to pass the vertical line.the exact time was 87.75 and not 87.5 that i guessed it was).BUT if i knew the method that Darkfish suggested i would for sure used that method...you save a lot of time . so, both methods work and that proves that there is not only one way to get the real length (real for the game ...not for real life)

about the mast value:

the mast value that you will set at .cfgs is the value that also the player will see ingame. and this value is exactly the value ( and the only one ) that the game is using to calculate the range (and the player via stadimeter).so,if the mast value is wrong at .cfgs then the calculated ranges will be also wrong . and it doesn't matter if it is a value for mast , you can choose any spot of the ship as a 'hot' spot to aim with stadimeter ( angle....mast...range)
and yes, you can find the accurate mast value (especially at sh4 which has better resolutions) .the only thing that you need is..patience (and as i said,it doesn't have to be the mast's height ...you can choose any part of the ship...the more vissible is..prefered like flags or funnels in some cases)

s3d (or 3d programmes) doesn't seem very helpfull at getting the real mast becuase you don't know where the waterline is for each ship. their .sims files are controling the part of the ship that will be above ( or under) the water and each ship has its own settings at .sims .BUT it will be very nice if someone find a way to get them from s3d . if this happens then it will be a piece of cake the fixes to ships's dimensions
but as i was writting this post .... i remembered something (but i am not sure about this)...someone has allready made some fixes for ships's dimensions for sh4 or no ?

[karamazovnew]

I don't recommend starting until I come up with the new marks and AOBF. If we can trust those we'd be along way into solving this. I'm away from home now but have difficulty sleeping when I think about them . An Angular Angle of 72 looks just right and I'd hate to change that but a milirad reticule will be way too big for it. If I make the viewfinder bigger, it will be cut off at the edges on some aspect ratios. But if I leave it as it is I can't convert it to fake a 18 degree Hollywood look (the horizontal and vertical line meet at 18 degrees up/left). And the fake reticule had 0-2-4-6 etc marks which would be too spaced apart. And since I had to move the AOBF inside the viewfinder, I don't want to see any marks. But when I go to an Angular Angle of 80 the original marks show up at the edges. Drives me nuts .

Wait a sec... I leave it at 72, use the real reticule but move the horizontal part up, make the view finder just a little bigger, then adjust the AOBF inside to cover the marks and fill any outside gap with black. That way I can keep the Stadimeter, the Ship name and the Reject Button outside the AOBF without making the damn thing too small. YES , can't wait to get home. By the way I've figured how to solve the handle thing. If you want I'll leave the current ones as a visual reminder of where to click at the sides of the screen. But the actual buttons will be invisible and bigger than the panels. When closed, you can click anywere at the sides of the screen to make them appear. When opened, you can click any empty part of the panels to hide them (except for dials and buttons, ofc). .

Oh by the way, the panels... do you think they're too bright? I might go with a simple black background with a rubber lens rim and they look just too bright and foggy to me. I think I migh tincrease contrast a bit and lower brightness for most tgas

[Nisgeis]

Originally Posted by makman94

s3d (or 3d programmes) doesn't seem very helpfull at getting the real mast becuase you don't know where the waterline is for each ship. their .sims files are controling the part of the ship that will be above ( or under) the water and each ship has its own settings at .sims .BUT it will be very nice if someone find a way to get them from s3d . if this happens then it will be a piece of cake the fixes to ships's dimensions

The waterline is the origin of the ship, so, you should be able to measure the height of the mast in S3D that way.

Be warned though, that the ship will 'sink' into the water the further the camera is from the ship, so that will spoil accuracy as the larger the range error will be as the waterline will appear higher and higher.

[lurker_hlb3]

I have determined that the following procedure will provided an "accurate" mast height for the .cfg

Using S3D create a "test" node and slave it to the main ships node.
Place the "test node" on the keel under the "tallest" mast and note the "y" value.
Move the "test" node to the top of mast and again note the "y" value.
Determine the total number of units from keel to mast top and multiply by 10 to get the length in meters
Open the .sim file with S3D and note the "draught" under unit_ship/obj_hydro/Surfaced and "subtract" the value you generated in the last step.

I have conducted a number of different test today to "validate" the mast height are correct.


During testing I noted that the values for mast height and ship length for ships for OM will have to be redone as they are inaccurate. I will start working on this shortly

[makman94]

Originally Posted by lurker_hlb3

I have determined that the following procedure will provided an "accurate" mast height for the .cfg

Using S3D create a "test" node and slave it to the main ships node.
Place the "test node" on the keel under the "tallest" mast and note the "y" value.
Move the "test" node to the top of mast and again note the "y" value.
Determine the total number of units from keel to mast top and multiply by 10 to get the length in meters
Open the .sim file with S3D and note the "draught" under unit_ship/obj_hydro/Surfaced and "subtract" the value you generated in the last step.

I have conducted a number of different test today to "validate" the mast height are correct.


During testing I noted that the values for mast height and ship length for ships for OM will have to be redone as they are inaccurate. I will start working on this shortly

hello Lurker,

as i have measured the mast height for Bismarck (and it is for sure correct after a lot of testing in the game) ...i found it 55.55m
but i couldn't find this value via s3d .please measure the bismarck's mast with your method and tell me your result

[lurker_hlb3]

Originally Posted by makman94

hello Lurker,

as i have measured the mast height for Bismarck (and it is for sure correct after a lot of testing in the game) ...i found it 55.55m
but i couldn't find this value via s3d .please measure the bismarck's mast with your method and tell me your result

Please note that all my testing has been on merchant, however I just looked at the Bismarck and there is a "0" value set in the "draught" field in the .sim file. However the value in S3d from the 0 "y" value to the top of the "after mast" is 5.52 which works out to 55.2 meters.

I personally know that a value in the "draught" field will effect were the ship 3d model sits in the water during game play.


Just to let you know the type of testing I did, I pick three merchants at random from the MFM add on in v720 and used the procedure I presented in my last post on each one. Then using the Mission editor created "map zones" of 500, 1000, 1500, 2000, and 2500 meters and placed each of the modified ships on each of the circles and had the ships set to "docked" so that can't move. After launching the single mission set to "manual targeting" mode, ID each ships via the rec-manual and then using the "stock" Stadimeter generated "range" estimates. In all cases the range error was less that 0.05 percent.

Also I conducted test on the "length" values for these merchants. When using S3d to measure from the Bull Nose ( front of the ship ) to the fantail and using those values for ships length to calculate ships speed, the soluation was within .01% of true speed.

FYI the tool I used to confirm my "Length/speed" findings was "Solution Solver 1.3.2 by gutted"

[makman94]

Originally Posted by lurker_hlb3

Please note that all my testing has been on merchant, however I just looked at the Bismarck and there is a "0" value set in the "draught" field in the .sim file. However the value in S3d from the 0 "y" value to the top of the "after mast" is 5.52 which works out to 55.2 meters.

by 0 ''y'' value you mean the keel of ship ?

I personally know that a value in the "draught" field will effect were the ship 3d model sits in the water during game play.

i know that too and i tottaly agree with you

Just to let you know the type of testing I did, I pick three merchants at random from the MFM add on in v720 and used the procedure I presented in my last post on each one. Then using the Mission editor created "map zones" of 500, 1000, 1500, 2000, and 2500 meters and placed each of the modified ships on each of the circles and had the ships set to "docked" so that can't move. After launching the single mission set to "manual targeting" mode, ID each ships via the rec-manual and then using the "stock" Stadimeter generated "range" estimates. In all cases the range error was less that 0.05 percent.

it is better for your ingame tests to make missions with NOT stationary ships.the stadimeter has a limitation and that is its pixel by pixel movement.by that i mean that the calculate distance via stadimeter is not 'continuesly' (sorry for my english) ...by that i mean that the calculate distance is 'jumping' from one measurment(that will keep it for some time there) immediatelly to the next one (that will keep it for some time there)and so on...
so it is better to have a moving ship and take ranges periodically .
what i do is this :
put the ship (about 4km away) and set its curse at 270 and make itso that when it pass in front of our nose (we are stationary and our course is set at o degrees) to be at a distance about 1km
then i run the mission with auto targeting enabled and start write down the given distances from the sh4 (these are the real distances) at 60,55,50.....,5,0 bearing.
then run the mission again but with the manual targeting enabled and start taking ranges via stadimeter at 60,55,50......,5,0 bearing(these are the fake distances)
then use this formula for each bearing : realmast=(fake mast x real range)/fake range where fakemast=the mast value that the game is currently using
then you have the 'realmasts' for each bearing and you calculate the middle one of these

Also I conducted test on the "length" values for these merchants. When using S3d to measure from the Bull Nose ( front of the ship ) to the fantail and using those values for ships length to calculate ships speed, the soluation was within .01% of true speed.

you are talking about the method that Darkfish suggested, right ?
yes, this method is absolutely correct...i checked it to some ships and works fine !

[lurker_hlb3]

by 0 ''y'' value you mean the keel of ship ?

No. The "0" on the y axis is the "start" position, If it was the keel it would have a "negative" value. In the case of the Bismarck it is -1.03


As far as your "moving" ship test, your basically using an old surveyor's trick of moving the "level rod" back and forth as he looks through the "level", When the level rod reaches its lowest point that will be the "height" above the ground.


However the procedures I have outline are accurate for determining "mast height"

[skwasjer]

I read something about ship measurements a few pages back. A little tip, is basically a hidden feature I used during development. In the 3D view press ctrl+F8. This gives you some node and rendering info, like fps, but also model dimensions in meters.

[lurker_hlb3]

Originally Posted by lurker_hlb3

I have determined that the following procedure will provided an "accurate" mast height for the .cfg

Using S3D create a "test" node and slave it to the main ships node.
Place the "test node" on the keel under the "tallest" mast and note the "y" value.
Move the "test" node to the top of mast and again note the "y" value.
Determine the total number of units from keel to mast top and multiply by 10 to get the length in meters
Open the .sim file with S3D and note the "draught" under unit_ship/obj_hydro/Surfaced and "subtract" the value you generated in the last step.

I have conducted a number of different test today to "validate" the mast height are correct.


During testing I noted that the values for mast height and ship length for ships for OM will have to be redone as they are inaccurate. I will start working on this shortly

Well, my face is red, my proceedure for trying to figure out mast height appears to be wrong. I'll have to come up with something else to determine the correct value

[EgoApocalypse]

LOVE IT............

[karamazovnew]

All right peeps, second patch is up. Download link in the first post. These are only a few image files so the patch can be applied during patrols. Features:
- deleted the extra 'r' in StadensehroRhr
- made the periscope marks HIGH REZ. The old ones were made starting from 1024/768 and were scaling up, also scaling up the rounding errors. The new ones start from 1920x1200 and scale down. Their accuracy is 100% perfect, with no rounding errors whatsoever and they can be used as reference to check the masts and lengths with total confidence.

I recommend changing the Binoculars to have an Angular Angle of 72 and zoom level of 10. This will maintain a smooth mouse control and make about 130 meter FOV at 1000 meters, as a true 7x50 navy binocular has.
Also, I recommend changing the Data\Cfg\commands.cfg file (either the SH4 one or the SH3 one, whichever you use) to have the following code. It will make the torpedo open/closed switches update instantly and free up the W key. The "Open/Close selected torpedo tube" still work as unkeyed commands, in case you have special buttons in the orders bar.

[Cmd308]
Name=Open_torpedo_tube
Ctxt=1

[Cmd309]
;Name=Close_torpedo_tube
Ctxt=1

[Cmd310]
Name=Open_sel_torpedo_tube
Ctxt=1

[Cmd311]
Name=Close_sel_torpedo_tube
Ctxt=1
;Key0=0x57,,"W"

[Cmd312]
Name=Toggle_open_close_torpedo_tube
Ctxt=1
Key0=0x51,,"Q"

Note about masts and lengths recalculation: what I recommend is making a custom mission with 4 static ships surrounding the submerged sub, all at 90 degree port AOB and all at 1000 meters away from the boat. Use high zoom to check mast and Low zoom to check the length. Having fixed periscopes and 0 speed wind will help a lot too. Using 16:10 resolutions would also be better.

The new KSMF ships seem to have their height value linked to the Funnel, not the masts. Probably a lesson learned from SCAF or RFB.
For example, the K-KM-KF-KM Merchant has a MAST of 30 meters (NOT 22.5) and a length of 140m (NOT 150). The funnels might be a better place to calculate the height anyway. Precision is not paramount at this level because the player can't place the AOBF precisely anyway since the Marks circle has few values. So errors of .5m for masts and 2-3m for length are not a problem. I also recommend indicating on each ship image which mast should be used as reference.

[karamazovnew]

EgoApocalypse: WTF?! What version are you using? That's the background used in the Alpha 3.0! Get your ass to Lurker's OMEGU thread and download his patch to get KiUB 1.1. Then apply my 1.2 patch. NOW!

[lurker_hlb3]

Originally Posted by karamazovnew

All right peeps, second patch is up. Download link in the first post. These are only a few image files so the patch can be applied during patrols. Features:
- deleted the extra 'r' in StadensehroRhr
- made the periscope marks HIGH REZ. The old ones were made starting from 1024/768 and were scaling up, also scaling up the rounding errors. The new ones start from 1920x1200 and scale down. Their accuracy is 100% perfect, with no rounding errors whatsoever and they can be used as reference to check the masts and lengths with total confidence.

I recommend changing the Binoculars to have an Angular Angle of 72 and zoom level of 10. This will maintain a smooth mouse control and make about 130 meter FOV at 1000 meters, as a true 7x50 navy binocular has.
Also, I recommend changing the Data\Cfg\commands.cfg file (either the SH4 one or the SH3 one, whichever you use) to have the following code. It will make the torpedo open/closed switches update instantly and free up the W key. The "Open/Close selected torpedo tube" still work as unkeyed commands, in case you have special buttons in the orders bar.

[Cmd308]
Name=Open_torpedo_tube
Ctxt=1

[Cmd309]
;Name=Close_torpedo_tube
Ctxt=1

[Cmd310]
Name=Open_sel_torpedo_tube
Ctxt=1

[Cmd311]
Name=Close_sel_torpedo_tube
Ctxt=1
;Key0=0x57,,"W"

[Cmd312]
Name=Toggle_open_close_torpedo_tube
Ctxt=1
Key0=0x51,,"Q"

Note about masts and lengths recalculation: what I recommend is making a custom mission with 4 static ships surrounding the submerged sub, all at 90 degree port AOB and all at 1000 meters away from the boat. Use high zoom to check mast and Low zoom to check the length. Having fixed periscopes and 0 speed wind will help a lot too. Using 16:10 resolutions would also be better.

The new KSMF ships seem to have their height value linked to the Funnel, not the masts. Probably a lesson learned from SCAF or RFB.
For example, the K-KM-KF-KM Merchant has a MAST of 30 meters (NOT 22.5) and a length of 140m (NOT 150). The funnels might be a better place to calculate the height anyway. Precision is not paramount at this level because the player can't place the AOBF precisely anyway since the Marks circle has few values. So errors of .5m for masts and 2-3m for length are not a problem. I also recommend indicating on each ship image which mast should be used as reference.

I'm working on the "mast height" now so the MFM ships are correct and use the "tallest" mast. Will work on the other items. I hope to be done in a day or two.