Can't Dive Deep enough!

slupanter · 10-21-09, 03:29 PM

ASDIC is only usable above 300m so uboats would dive to 300m and long as the hull was good nic plus other boats upset ASDIC and warm water, cold water, fish, whales, sediment and the sea floor. But the glass and lose valves would pop and have to be tightened. plus DC only needs to be with in 40 - 50m and good night to your pressure hull unless your in shallows.
In GWX 3.1 or SH5 the depths need to be deeper for later subs

sorry upset got caught by Flower

GoldenRivet · 10-21-09, 03:44 PM

the depth capabilities of the U-boats in GWX are set to historical values.

SH3 Commander adjusts these values to a more randomized extent.

In reality, if a U-boat made 300 meters or deeper it was near the end for that crew anyhow.

U-48Kriegsmarine · 10-21-09, 04:03 PM

Believe U Me, if the real u-boaters could go to 300m, more than 25% of them would have come back, but they didn't! U-boats can't just dive to 300m to get below ASDIC, its just not possible, and I believe the game reflects this accurately.

Again, the casualty statistics show, If they could they would have, but they didn't because they can't.

Nice info though about the Whales, water and all that, I would love for a whale to just swim into the ping of a destroyer and save my skin!

Philipp_Thomsen · 10-21-09, 04:55 PM

The only true way to find out what can a non-damaged hull take, is actually doing it. But I don't think german skippers would just dive to 300m just to be sure it can take. It doesnt mean it can't. The only reports we have, are those from uboats that had flooding and went near 300m until they managed to start going up again.

I do believe that uboats with a inctact and perfect hull can reach 300m, yes. Just there's no how to prove it.

GoldenRivet · 10-21-09, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philipp_Thomsen

The only true way to find out what can a non-damaged hull take, is actually doing it. But I don't think german skippers would just dive to 300m just to be sure it can take. It doesnt mean it can't. The only reports we have, are those from uboats that had flooding and went near 300m until they managed to start going up again.

I do believe that uboats with a inctact and perfect hull can reach 300m, yes. Just there's no how to prove it.

Correct.

and the guage stops at 250M

beyond that you are testing the unknown.

besides... i dont even think subs could really measure any depth below 250m

i mean you got to hand it to those Germans... we are talking about a U-boat design from the mid 1930's capable of diving to near 900 ft

i mean compare that to the US Subs... their "test depth" was nearly twice as much as the US Sub's test depths across the board.

Philipp_Thomsen · 10-21-09, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

Correct.

and the guage stops at 250M

beyond that you are testing the unknown.

besides... i dont even think subs could really measure any depth below 250m

i mean you got to hand it to those Germans... we are talking about a U-boat design from the mid 1930's capable of diving to near 900 ft

i mean compare that to the US Subs... their "test depth" was nearly twice as much as the US Sub's test depths across the board.

With today's technology, subs should be going 1000m deep at 50kts no problem. Somehow they don't... but I believe that there must be an explanation for it... maybe the lack of necessity to go that deep?

tomfon · 10-22-09, 03:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philipp_Thomsen

The only true way to find out what can a non-damaged hull take, is actually doing it. But I don't think german skippers would just dive to 300m just to be sure it can take. It doesnt mean it can't. The only reports we have, are those from uboats that had flooding and went near 300m until they managed to start going up again.

I do believe that uboats with a inctact and perfect hull can reach 300m, yes. Just there's no how to prove it.

Heh, good point.

slupanter · 10-22-09, 03:59 AM

Type XXI could drive deep but it still doesnt sort out the warm and cold water and whales lol. type VII would be crushed over about 179FT but type XXI could just take it i never said it wouldn't be damaged I.E glass and joints. but in the type IXC - C2 they changed the pressure hull from steel to armour plate increase the displacement to about 1000.

slupanter · 10-22-09, 04:18 AM

http://www.uboataces.com/uboat-type-xxi.shtml

Crushing depht 919ft (280m) ASDIC could see you at this depht at 2knots, warm and cool bands would mask the boat even at 200m. if you were singing, clanging and ahead full then your asking for trouble even maybe 280m

Pohl · 10-22-09, 10:24 AM

I once took a Type XXI to 270m but she started taking damage.....for a proof here's a picture

slupanter · 10-22-09, 02:37 PM

yeah sh3 is wrong about the type XXI at 15 knot is quieter than a us sub (cant remember which one Bal something). it not as good in the game as it was in the war

Sailor Steve · 10-22-09, 04:26 PM

Type XXI technology looked good on paper, but they suffered many problems since they were the first of their kind.

But since no Type XXIs were involved in combat, it's not really relevant.

psykopatsak · 10-22-09, 05:35 PM

if it was made more realistic, you would have to rush to get to an enemy ship before the war ended :P

Ducimus · 10-22-09, 06:28 PM

Reality and popular belief often differ.

Uboats, did not dive at or below 300 meters, at least, not on purpose, and definatly not with any regularity. I doubt you'll find more then one or two accounts of a uboat having gone to 300 meters deep or more and lived to tell about it. Furthermore, the stress undergone by the pressurehull at that depth by any submarine of the day, would have caused fatigue on the hull to such a degree, that retirement of the boat might be a consideration. At the least, the strength of the hull in future dives would have been drastically compromised, making the crush depth of the boat progressively shallower as the pressure hull became more and more fatigued.

The type 21 Uboat, wasn't all that and a bag of chips. Firstly, many of the internal lines and piping (such as hydrolic systems) were external to the pressure hull, making repairs by the crew virtually impossible. Secondly, you have to look at the hulls themselves. Made in sections at various yards, under the hammer of allied bombing. There are accounts of the various sections not fitting together correctly at the time of assembly. In otherwords, the hulls lacked quality due to the frantic/desperate situation in nazi germany's late war construction.

Platapus · 10-22-09, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Type XXI technology looked good on paper, but they suffered many problems since they were the first of their kind.

But since no Type XXIs were involved in combat, it's not really relevant.

I guess it would depend on what you mean by "involved in combat"

The U2511 made one war patrol but did not sink any ships. But it did sneak up on a British Cruiser without being detected (Pretty interesting story)
The U3008 kinda sorta made a tiny patrol but went back into port before the cook had a chance to ask the Kaluen about the soup

Now if "involved in combat" means being attacked by the enemy, then you are most correct. By the time the Type XXI came about, the war was over (Literally in the case of the U-3008)

10-21-09, 03:29 PM	#1
slupanter Mate Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: the sea Posts: 51 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	Can't Dive Deep enough! ASDIC is only usable above 300m so uboats would dive to 300m and long as the hull was good nic plus other boats upset ASDIC and warm water, cold water, fish, whales, sediment and the sea floor. But the glass and lose valves would pop and have to be tightened. plus DC only needs to be with in 40 - 50m and good night to your pressure hull unless your in shallows. In GWX 3.1 or SH5 the depths need to be deeper for later subs sorry upset got caught by Flower __________________ Bring forth the Deliver U997, Little rusty but she'll do.

10-21-09, 03:44 PM	#2
GoldenRivet Subsim Aviator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 8,726 Downloads: 146 Uploads: 0	the depth capabilities of the U-boats in GWX are set to historical values. SH3 Commander adjusts these values to a more randomized extent. In reality, if a U-boat made 300 meters or deeper it was near the end for that crew anyhow. __________________

10-21-09, 04:03 PM	#3
U-48Kriegsmarine Planesman Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Far Far Down at the Bottom of the Sea Posts: 185 Downloads: 339 Uploads: 0	Believe U Me, if the real u-boaters could go to 300m, more than 25% of them would have come back, but they didn't! U-boats can't just dive to 300m to get below ASDIC, its just not possible, and I believe the game reflects this accurately. Again, the casualty statistics show, If they could they would have, but they didn't because they can't. Nice info though about the Whales, water and all that, I would love for a whale to just swim into the ping of a destroyer and save my skin! __________________ Stay Cool, its only a depth Charge

10-21-09, 04:55 PM	#4
Philipp_Thomsen Old Gang Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Drunk at the whorehouse Posts: 2,278 Downloads: 146 Uploads: 0	The only true way to find out what can a non-damaged hull take, is actually doing it. But I don't think german skippers would just dive to 300m just to be sure it can take. It doesnt mean it can't. The only reports we have, are those from uboats that had flooding and went near 300m until they managed to start going up again. I do believe that uboats with a inctact and perfect hull can reach 300m, yes. Just there's no how to prove it. __________________ To each his own

10-22-09, 03:59 AM	#8
slupanter Mate Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: the sea Posts: 51 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	Type XXI could drive deep but it still doesnt sort out the warm and cold water and whales lol. type VII would be crushed over about 179FT but type XXI could just take it i never said it wouldn't be damaged I.E glass and joints. but in the type IXC - C2 they changed the pressure hull from steel to armour plate increase the displacement to about 1000. __________________ Bring forth the Deliver U997, Little rusty but she'll do.

10-22-09, 04:18 AM	#9
slupanter Mate Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: the sea Posts: 51 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	http://www.uboataces.com/uboat-type-xxi.shtml Crushing depht 919ft (280m) ASDIC could see you at this depht at 2knots, warm and cool bands would mask the boat even at 200m. if you were singing, clanging and ahead full then your asking for trouble even maybe 280m __________________ Bring forth the Deliver U997, Little rusty but she'll do.

10-22-09, 10:24 AM	#10
Pohl Sparky Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 157 Downloads: 31 Uploads: 0	I once took a Type XXI to 270m but she started taking damage.....for a proof here's a picture __________________ Current Careers: U-177 Type IXD2, 10th Flotilla March 13, 1943 U-3502 Type XXI, 7th/13th Flotilla April 14, 1942 100% realism, GWX 3.0, SH3 Commander 3.2

10-22-09, 02:37 PM	#11
slupanter Mate Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: the sea Posts: 51 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	yeah sh3 is wrong about the type XXI at 15 knot is quieter than a us sub (cant remember which one Bal something). it not as good in the game as it was in the war __________________ Bring forth the Deliver U997, Little rusty but she'll do.

10-22-09, 04:26 PM	#12
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	Type XXI technology looked good on paper, but they suffered many problems since they were the first of their kind. But since no Type XXIs were involved in combat, it's not really relevant. __________________ “Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo

10-22-09, 05:35 PM	#13
psykopatsak Medic Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Grid AO27 Posts: 161 Downloads: 27 Uploads: 0	if it was made more realistic, you would have to rush to get to an enemy ship before the war ended :P

10-22-09, 06:28 PM	#14
Ducimus Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,987 Downloads: 67 Uploads: 2	Reality and popular belief often differ. Uboats, did not dive at or below 300 meters, at least, not on purpose, and definatly not with any regularity. I doubt you'll find more then one or two accounts of a uboat having gone to 300 meters deep or more and lived to tell about it. Furthermore, the stress undergone by the pressurehull at that depth by any submarine of the day, would have caused fatigue on the hull to such a degree, that retirement of the boat might be a consideration. At the least, the strength of the hull in future dives would have been drastically compromised, making the crush depth of the boat progressively shallower as the pressure hull became more and more fatigued. The type 21 Uboat, wasn't all that and a bag of chips. Firstly, many of the internal lines and piping (such as hydrolic systems) were external to the pressure hull, making repairs by the crew virtually impossible. Secondly, you have to look at the hulls themselves. Made in sections at various yards, under the hammer of allied bombing. There are accounts of the various sections not fitting together correctly at the time of assembly. In otherwords, the hulls lacked quality due to the frantic/desperate situation in nazi germany's late war construction.