What types of Uboats?

Steeltrap · 09-14-09, 12:43 AM

Well I might be in the minority but, in a related point, I am one who doesn't care about the ability to walk through the entire sub.

Why?

For starters, what exactly does that add to gameplay? Does the skipper have to run to the engine room every time he wants to order a new speed? Does he go there when he wants damage control performed? No. Novelty effect once or twice; after that it's a yawn. If they build it so you HAVE to run around to get certain things done, that will quickly become a pain in the aft spaces....

How much development effort goes into the building of all spaces for all the subs? For me, I want every last $$ going to technical accuracy then graphics in those places that matter (external, through scope, through binocs) and LASTLY, if they have time, to worry about the interior outside the command room and conning tower.

Why does the matter for the number of subs? If you have to do the full interior for each, it follows that that takes considerably more development than would otherwise be the case.

Kaleun_Endrass · 09-14-09, 02:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steeltrap

For me, I want every last $$ going to technical accuracy then graphics in those places that matter... Why does the matter for the number of subs?

I guess all the more boats are in the game at release all the more customers could be attracted. The number of players that want every vent to operate realistically is so small that the devs won´t or aren´t allowed to put effort into that.

PS: Im one of that minority.

oscar19681 · 09-14-09, 07:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steeltrap

Well I might be in the minority but, in a related point, I am one who doesn't care about the ability to walk through the entire sub.

Why?

For starters, what exactly does that add to gameplay? Does the skipper have to run to the engine room every time he wants to order a new speed? Does he go there when he wants damage control performed? No. Novelty effect once or twice; after that it's a yawn. If they build it so you HAVE to run around to get certain things done, that will quickly become a pain in the aft spaces....

How much development effort goes into the building of all spaces for all the subs? For me, I want every last $$ going to technical accuracy then graphics in those places that matter (external, through scope, through binocs) and LASTLY, if they have time, to worry about the interior outside the command room and conning tower.

Why does the matter for the number of subs? If you have to do the full interior for each, it follows that that takes considerably more development than would otherwise be the case.

I see what you mean and i,m sure you dont have to come out of the contol room most of the time. But i for one like to have the abilaty anyway. In sh3 you could go to the captains bunk in stuff where in sh5 i really felt boring because i could only go into the conning tower and control room. I guess in combat i will remain mostly in the control room but on long patrols just transiting i would like to have a stroll throught the whole lengt of the u-boat from time to time.

Steeltrap · 09-14-09, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oscar19681

I see what you mean and i,m sure you dont have to come out of the contol room most of the time. But i for one like to have the abilaty anyway. In sh3 you could go to the captains bunk in stuff where in sh5 i really felt boring because i could only go into the conning tower and control room. I guess in combat i will remain mostly in the control room but on long patrols just transiting i would like to have a stroll throught the whole lengt of the u-boat from time to time.

Don't get me wrong (not suggesting you are), I'd like to be able to walk through as well, and I can imagine it might lead to some interesting aspects of gameplay (for example, imagine you get a damage control benefit by going to the relevant compartment, but that doing so necessarily restricts some of your command options...interesting....).

What I don't want is technical accuracy being lost by too much time being spent on pretty graphics. That is a curse affecting many PC games these days.....

subvers4 · 09-15-09, 02:32 PM

I'm with Steeltrap here, the main reason for my love affair with SH3/GWX is down to the atmospheric gameplay which helps immersion hugely. The walking through the sub and being able to interact with some other characters, I feel, would be a novelty thing at first, but due to the constraints of being a computer sim, would become a repetitive exercise.
I would much rather the money,time and expertise to be spent on more imaginative and realistic AI behaviour. I don't want to feel I'm watching the same film over and over again with the same characterisations. The ability to have to come up with different plans and approaches to a given situation, and seeing the differing results, good or bad, that arise from your actions is what does it for me.
Just my tuppence worth.

iambecomelife · 09-16-09, 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steeltrap

What I don't want is technical accuracy being lost by too much time being spent on pretty graphics. That is a curse affecting many PC games these days.....

QFT

Scottly · 09-18-09, 12:45 PM

I'd quite like to see some Italian boats, BETASOM had quite a few based in France. Even considering that they were pretty useless it'd be an interesting diversion.

On a slightly more likely note, I think a what-if scenario Type XI with the gun turrets would be fun.

09-23-09, 03:03 AM

A Type XI?
With gun turrets?
Huh?

TarJak · 09-23-09, 08:31 AM

I'm with Jscones on having unlimited playable slots. The SH3 limit was just a damn nuisance.

DarkFish · 09-23-09, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TarJak

I'm with Jscones on having unlimited playable slots. The SH3 limit was just a damn nuisance.

This was already fixed in SH4

KeptinCranky · 09-23-09, 09:15 AM

The II VII and IX boats will definitely be in the game.. because well, you gotta have those...

The devs did ask us during the meet what we would like to see, a XXI a XXIII or something else entirely...

we couldn't agree on this subject at the meeting, but my view is that a XXIII boat is not all that fun to play, you have only 2 eels, the XVII while fun, was never operational, so not very interesting...

the XXI I wouldn't mind having back in the game, but I won't put my hopes on it, because that would entail a large amount of additional work for the devs, building a full interior for a XXI...

I wouldn't mind having one or 2 Italian sub classes in the game though

Nuc · 09-23-09, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KeptinCranky

The devs did ask us during the meet what we would like to see, a XXI a XXIII or something else entirely...

What else did they ask?

KeptinCranky · 09-23-09, 11:42 AM

Ok, bear with me here,
First of all, anything I say here is NOT definitive, nor an indication of what may or may not be in the game.
I am not an Ubi dev, I don't influence their decisions. you'll just have to wait for them for definite answers

the night before the actual presentation we had a sort of brainstorming session/discussion with Dan, Mike and Mihai about all sorts of aspects of the game. I was partly distracted during that because Dan had brought a book I was very interested in (sneaky

). Also after the presentation, and the day after that, some lively talks with the individual devs were surely had. I can only report on what I know of course.
also keep in mind that everyone present at the meet is an avid sub-simmer, we've all played sh3 and sh4 and often other sub-games as well. this means it's easy to forget that they want to sell the game not just to you, but if at all possible to your 12-year old relative/kid sister/whatever, and make them like it. a difficult mission by any standard.

Anyhow, we discussed things like what we want from a game in the way of simulation, what sort of problems crop up in building a Silent Hunter game. And also about what types of Uboots should be in the game. That the standard boats would be in was without question, but the discussion about prototypes like the type XXI was inconclusive, mostly because we went on to other things.

There was a discussion about expansions/other options such as Multiplayer and what possibilities that offers. Also about if and how something like destroyer command for SH2 could be implemented in sh5 and if such a thing would sell.

Now, keep in mind that if Dan & co. could call all the shots on what sh5 would become, and if they had an infinite budget, they'd pull all the stops and you'd get the ultimate Uboot simulation. You'd also get a 300 page manual with it, and you'd have to read it all before you could even contemplate going out on a feindfahrt. This of course is not the case. It couldn't be.

They've gone for an accessible game, and I applaud the way they've done it.

Do not fear that sh5 will become some sort of arcade sub-game, it will definitely be silent hunter as you know it. Only better.

I also had a talk with Mihai and some of the other guys about engines on uboats, specifically about implementing more detailed engine options such as running on e-motors on the surface, and why would this be necessary. also about using only one diesel because of damage/fuel/other reasons, and what this would mean for steering the boat, specifically how much would the rudder need to compensate for the fact that there's only one propeller turning. Now, Implementing something like ordering each engine separately would add a level of complexity to the game that is not necessarily a good thing. personally I'd love to have it but that doesn't mean it's feasible to put in. I think it may very well be, but that's not up to me of course.

Hope this satisfies your curiosity somewhat... I've gotta make dinner now...

09-23-09, 12:34 PM

Thank you, KeptinCranky.
This isn't the first time your posts have improved my day.

martes86 · 09-23-09, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KeptinCranky

[...] also about using only one diesel because of damage/fuel/other reasons, and what this would mean for steering the boat, specifically how much would the rudder need to compensate for the fact that there's only one propeller turning. Now, Implementing something like ordering each engine separately would add a level of complexity to the game that is not necessarily a good thing. personally I'd love to have it but that doesn't mean it's feasible to put in.

I sent today a little PM to Mihai about a technical explanation I got regarding the matter from one of the folks from our Historic Services section. It still seemed complicated. Anyways, I haven't given up yet, there's some resourceful guys going into it, and if they send me any more worthy details about it, no doubt I'll send them to the Devs.

09-23-09, 11:42 AM	#13
KeptinCranky Ace of the Deep Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Netherlands Posts: 1,050 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	Ok, bear with me here, First of all, anything I say here is NOT definitive, nor an indication of what may or may not be in the game. I am not an Ubi dev, I don't influence their decisions. you'll just have to wait for them for definite answers the night before the actual presentation we had a sort of brainstorming session/discussion with Dan, Mike and Mihai about all sorts of aspects of the game. I was partly distracted during that because Dan had brought a book I was very interested in (sneaky ). Also after the presentation, and the day after that, some lively talks with the individual devs were surely had. I can only report on what I know of course. also keep in mind that everyone present at the meet is an avid sub-simmer, we've all played sh3 and sh4 and often other sub-games as well. this means it's easy to forget that they want to sell the game not just to you, but if at all possible to your 12-year old relative/kid sister/whatever, and make them like it. a difficult mission by any standard. Anyhow, we discussed things like what we want from a game in the way of simulation, what sort of problems crop up in building a Silent Hunter game. And also about what types of Uboots should be in the game. That the standard boats would be in was without question, but the discussion about prototypes like the type XXI was inconclusive, mostly because we went on to other things. There was a discussion about expansions/other options such as Multiplayer and what possibilities that offers. Also about if and how something like destroyer command for SH2 could be implemented in sh5 and if such a thing would sell. Now, keep in mind that if Dan & co. could call all the shots on what sh5 would become, and if they had an infinite budget, they'd pull all the stops and you'd get the ultimate Uboot simulation. You'd also get a 300 page manual with it, and you'd have to read it all before you could even contemplate going out on a feindfahrt. This of course is not the case. It couldn't be. They've gone for an accessible game, and I applaud the way they've done it. Do not fear that sh5 will become some sort of arcade sub-game, it will definitely be silent hunter as you know it. Only better. I also had a talk with Mihai and some of the other guys about engines on uboats, specifically about implementing more detailed engine options such as running on e-motors on the surface, and why would this be necessary. also about using only one diesel because of damage/fuel/other reasons, and what this would mean for steering the boat, specifically how much would the rudder need to compensate for the fact that there's only one propeller turning. Now, Implementing something like ordering each engine separately would add a level of complexity to the game that is not necessarily a good thing. personally I'd love to have it but that doesn't mean it's feasible to put in. I think it may very well be, but that's not up to me of course. Hope this satisfies your curiosity somewhat... I've gotta make dinner now... Last edited by KeptinCranky; 09-23-09 at 05:07 PM.

09-14-09, 12:43 AM	#1
Steeltrap Grey Wolf Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 818 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	Well I might be in the minority but, in a related point, I am one who doesn't care about the ability to walk through the entire sub. Why? For starters, what exactly does that add to gameplay? Does the skipper have to run to the engine room every time he wants to order a new speed? Does he go there when he wants damage control performed? No. Novelty effect once or twice; after that it's a yawn. If they build it so you HAVE to run around to get certain things done, that will quickly become a pain in the aft spaces.... How much development effort goes into the building of all spaces for all the subs? For me, I want every last $$ going to technical accuracy then graphics in those places that matter (external, through scope, through binocs) and LASTLY, if they have time, to worry about the interior outside the command room and conning tower. Why does the matter for the number of subs? If you have to do the full interior for each, it follows that that takes considerably more development than would otherwise be the case.

09-15-09, 02:32 PM	#5
subvers4 Mate Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Aberdeen, Scotland, UK Posts: 58 Downloads: 21 Uploads: 0	I'm with Steeltrap here, the main reason for my love affair with SH3/GWX is down to the atmospheric gameplay which helps immersion hugely. The walking through the sub and being able to interact with some other characters, I feel, would be a novelty thing at first, but due to the constraints of being a computer sim, would become a repetitive exercise. I would much rather the money,time and expertise to be spent on more imaginative and realistic AI behaviour. I don't want to feel I'm watching the same film over and over again with the same characterisations. The ability to have to come up with different plans and approaches to a given situation, and seeing the differing results, good or bad, that arise from your actions is what does it for me. Just my tuppence worth.

09-18-09, 12:45 PM	#7
Scottly Nub Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 3 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	I'd quite like to see some Italian boats, BETASOM had quite a few based in France. Even considering that they were pretty useless it'd be an interesting diversion. On a slightly more likely note, I think a what-if scenario Type XI with the gun turrets would be fun.

09-23-09, 03:03 AM	#8
Snestorm Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	A Type XI? With gun turrets? Huh?

09-23-09, 08:31 AM	#9
TarJak Fleet Admiral Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 17,052 Downloads: 150 Uploads: 8	I'm with Jscones on having unlimited playable slots. The SH3 limit was just a damn nuisance.

09-23-09, 09:15 AM	#11
KeptinCranky Ace of the Deep Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Netherlands Posts: 1,050 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	The II VII and IX boats will definitely be in the game.. because well, you gotta have those... The devs did ask us during the meet what we would like to see, a XXI a XXIII or something else entirely... we couldn't agree on this subject at the meeting, but my view is that a XXIII boat is not all that fun to play, you have only 2 eels, the XVII while fun, was never operational, so not very interesting... the XXI I wouldn't mind having back in the game, but I won't put my hopes on it, because that would entail a large amount of additional work for the devs, building a full interior for a XXI... I wouldn't mind having one or 2 Italian sub classes in the game though

09-23-09, 12:34 PM	#14
Snestorm Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	Thank you, KeptinCranky. This isn't the first time your posts have improved my day.