CIA used mock executions etc.

Originally Posted by Tribesman

What absolute drivel, there are several pacific nations who are proud of their record in being the fattest nations in the world.
But hey how about the latest EU report into Lard


Oh look its finland :rotfl:

Isn't it sad that in such a simple case as putting up a viable position against torture you are simply unable to make a coherent arguement Herring , instead you just go off on an "It's America" rant again.

Well you're free to attack Finland if you feel like it. Freedom, it's a nice thing, innit?

[August]

Originally Posted by OneToughHerring

Well you're free to attack Finland if you feel like it. Freedom, it's a nice thing, innit?

Maybe he has too much class to attack an entire nation just because he's irritated with a single individual.

Originally Posted by August

Maybe he has too much class to attack an entire nation just because he's irritated with a single individual.

Yet he attacks the entire nation instead of me.

In a feeble attempt to bring this thread back on topic, take a look at that list I posted. It tells you clearly that there are people, mostly Americans, who are in favour of torture. Some people, mostly Europeans, are against torture. I think that's the whole point. Some people agree with the use of torture and some don't.

[Aramike]

It could, but it would be taking appeal to authority a bit far to claim that
the CIA are in an utterly unique position.

It would be except for the fact that they are.

The issue of torture is certainly too complex, but the "if it didn't work it
wouldn't be used." argument is not.

Clearly, if taken by itself (which I specifically said in the last post). Yet when considered along with other axiomatic factors the argument becomes complex and your formula becomes useless in describing it.

All that aside, I'm not sure that anyone who says the CIA is wrong has to
give a reason why they would make the mistake. The burden of proof isn't
on them to do so.

Anyone making a claim has a burden of proof. This isn't a negative claim of "no it doesn't happen" and therefore is unprovable. We know that something happens and that there is a verifiable result.

Your burden of proof argument (which you really should leave at the metaphysical door, by the way) doesn't apply in instances of measurable results. That would be like me saying that water doesn't freeze at 32F and putting the burden of proof on you to show that water DOES indeed freeze at 32F.

[Aramike]

In a feeble attempt to bring this thread back on topic, take a look at that list I posted. It tells you clearly that there are people, mostly Americans, who are in favour of torture. Some people, mostly Europeans, are against torture. I think that's the whole point. Some people agree with the use of torture and some don't.

Thank you, Admiral Obvious!

Originally Posted by Aramike

Thank you, Admiral Obvious!

It may be obvious to you but I'm sure to a lot of Finns it isn't. And now with the US being the 'special ally' of Finland it's increasingly important that Finns know how Americans feel about these kinds of things.

[SteamWake]

Dont fret Barry has it under control

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009...rogation-unit/

[Aramike]

Originally Posted by OneToughHerring

It may be obvious to you but I'm sure to a lot of Finns it isn't. And now with the US being the 'special ally' of Finland it's increasingly important that Finns know how Americans feel about these kinds of things.

Well, you go right on educating them.

Somehow I have a feeling that there's a diversity of opinion on the matter there as well as everywhere else. And I'm pretty sure you don't represent Finland as a whole.

Originally Posted by Aramike

Well, you go right on educating them.

Somehow I have a feeling that there's a diversity of opinion on the matter there as well as everywhere else. And I'm pretty sure you don't represent Finland as a whole.

Oh you mean that you are relying on finding people in Finland who would say yes to USA's right to use torture? I wouldn't bet too much on that one.

[Aramike]

Originally Posted by OneToughHerring

Oh you mean that you are relying on finding people in Finland who would say yes to USA's right to use torture? I wouldn't bet too much on that one.

I'm sure there are some. And I'm sure they are minority.

And, most of all, I'm sure most Americans just don't give a damn what the citizens of Finland think of us.

Originally Posted by Aramike

I'm sure there are some. And I'm sure they are minority.

And, most of all, I'm sure most Americans just don't give a damn what the citizens of Finland think of us.

"Pride goes before the fall", it's a saying we have here. Not that America really has that high to fall from.

[August]

Originally Posted by OneToughHerring

"Pride goes before the fall", it's a saying we have here. Not that America really has that high to fall from.

Proverbs 16:18

Oh I didn't know that's a biblical quote, I just translated verbatim the Finnish saying. I guess there is lots of this biblical stuff in everyday sayings.

[August]

Originally Posted by OneToughHerring

Oh I didn't know that's a biblical quote, I just translated verbatim the Finnish saying. I guess there is lots of this biblical stuff in everyday sayings.

Must feel strange to you to be using quotes from a religion that you hate so much eh?

Originally Posted by August

Must feel strange to you to be using quotes from a religion that you hate so much eh?

Shouldn't the Americans all be you know, Mormons or Jehova's witnesses? I mean, those are their religions, invented by them? Why are Americans taking a mostly European religion and then perverting it? And more importantly why are you sending those ****ing Mormons and Jehovas into Europe?