Evasion Suggestions

[vanjast]

Originally Posted by Schroeder

Well, this might work in the game but in RL you can't control the depth of the submarine without some speed (or the use of the pumps which make more noise than slow engine speed from what I heard). So if you want to play realistically you should maintain at least some slow speed all of the time.

This was so with SH3's RUB, but not with RFB... makes you think... why did they change the 'plan'.. didn't they like Uboats

Actually it's all about bouyancy, which is controllable to a certain degree - with RUB I think they got it right as I had to cruise about 1 knot minimum to stay level. Now with RFB, I can just park off

[Folducker]

I guess so far, I have been pretty lucky. The half dozen or so attacks I have made on convoys haven't resulted in much in the way of ASW counterattacks. By going below the layer and silent right away, I haven't been detected. The Japanese destroyers have a good time beating up the ocean in spots where I'm not. I think this will probably change later on, now I am in January '43. I have to laugh when I go to the external view and see a group of destroyers gathered in a circle with their spot lights on and every now and then one of them makes a run through the center of the circle and drops. Don't know what they are trying to kill as long as it's not me!

[Armistead]

I'm sure you're aware of TMO1.7 is up and running. Might want to load it up after this career.

In TMO, you must evade, not toy around at slow speeds, constantly keeping a narrow profile. You want to get out of the circle of death ASAP.
They ping, take off. If they go over you, flank. I go anywhere from 1 knot to flank when evading. Only time I'm silent is when they stop.

One easy tip that really works if you have no damage, go deeper than default. I won't tell what crush depths I've found, but you can usually go another 100 ft without a problem.

Remember weather and sea conditions play a huge role, moreso in TMO. You would be surprised what you can get by with in rough seas and how little you can get by when the sea is mirror calm.

When attacking one of the most important things I've found is quick periscope takes. Leave that scope up long and they will be alerted.
I get the right tracking, speed, aob, ect., then go to about 100 feet for shooting. I don't like showing my scope within 1000 yards.

Before the attack...silent and not give yourself away. After, I'm usually out of the circle of death before they start searching. Just remember if one contacts you, he calls his friends.

[old_tex]

Originally Posted by old_tex

When I first detect a convoy, I try to estimate the distance between the outermost DD on the side that I am on and position the sub about half way between it and the main body of the convoy. Then, I drop below the thermalcline and stop everything and listen. When the lead DD passes beyond my position and the lead convoy component is within about 20 degrees of my position, I begin rising to periscope depth (all the while keeping a bearing on the outermost DD). From then on, it do the best you can. I pick the largest ship within range and try to get him. Then, I pick other targets of opportunity as they present themselves. Finally, the DDs approach and I take evasive action, as necessary. If I can, I move under the convoy and come up on the other side and fire the aft tubes. Not every scenerio is the same, but that's generally how I do it. Old_tex

I am running TMO 1.7 Old_tex

[Rockin Robbins]

Originally Posted by vanjast

This was so with SH3's RUB, but not with RFB... makes you think... why did they change the 'plan'.. didn't they like Uboats

Actually it's all about bouyancy, which is controllable to a certain degree - with RUB I think they got it right as I had to cruise about 1 knot minimum to stay level. Now with RFB, I can just park off

Actually, RUB got it wrong too. I forget how it works. NYGM made the sub slightly buoyant and RUB slightly negative, or the other way around. Actually the situation is MUCH more complicated. Not only is there an unpredictable fluctuation in buoyancy, meaning that you can randomly be slightly positive OR negative, buoyancy can be different at the bow than the stern, setting your trim off. Things can get quickly out of hand in a hovering submarine and none of the mods can get it right without random effects, which we don't have and can't make. Better to leave things alone and just play realistically than have some hokey inaccurate effect. You should always keep at least half a knot on for stability. That's close enough to power off that it doesn't matter and you are being realistic.

Now I'll toss the monkey wrench into the works. It WAS possible in one circumstance to hover a sub power off for hours on end. This was done several times successfully during the war and saved a couple of subs. Want to guess how it was done? It did not involve sitting on the bottom.

[old_tex]

[quote=Now I'll toss the monkey wrench into the works. It WAS possible in one circumstance to hover a sub power off for hours on end. This was done several times successfully during the war and saved a couple of subs. Want to guess how it was done? It did not involve sitting on the bottom.[/quote]

My guess would be getting people forward or aft as the bubble moved. Old_tex

[Stealhead]

Stop using the map plot updates and stop using external camera view. Using either of these will give you bad habits for evading asw!


Has anyone really tried that? Dont it wont help you at all.What I do is click on the follow nearst warship icon to have my sound man keep tabs on the closest escort that helps when you are using the gear your self. Maybe the trying to match the escorts speed setting works for you but have you ever considered that he may be using this as bait to get a fix? And dont forget they dont have to go slow to use the sonar or hydrophone going slower only allows them to get a better fix with hydrophones. If you are doing a good job and runing silent and under a thermal layer you will be making very little noise and dont forget that if there is more than one escort it is highly likely that one of them will simply sit there and listen and you may never know that he is there.That is why it is so important to get as far away as you can. The key is try to stay away from the circle of death as Armistead said in the first place and for me that means firing from 3000 plus yards and turining away and diving as soon as my last fish is away dont look at the fire works even if you are several thousand yards away.And then when escaping keeping your sub at as small of a siloute as possiable in relation to the escorts in other words keep them on your 180 as much as you can.The only toying you should do is keeping ASW on your 180 I find that to be more important than going very deep like 400+ save that for when they are still really finding you when you are in the 250-350 foot range dont forget that the older subs simply dont have the option to very deep like the newer ones do to well rounded you need to be able to evade in an S-boat as well as you can in a Balao or Tench or at times when you are in water that is 250 or less feet in deapth. Also the a huge factor is what version of the game you are playing I am basing this on the TMO mods. The AI in stock is dead weight pretty much so the tricks that work for them will cause the ASW crewman in TMO laugh thier asses of as they listen to the American Navy fools sub break apart.

To add to Rockinrobbins statment he is right it could be very hard in certain seas to maintain the proper trim if you read up in books like "Take Her Deep" The author describes very well how crazy the currents could be in areas around Japan and he does a good job of parising the men is his crew that did this job so well under such hairy condtions. Sadly none of this is simulated in SH4 nore the fact that there where many layers within a thermal and if you hit a really good one pretty much nothing could go though sound wise this is what made our bythophographs( i now that is miss speled) they gave the US subs an advatage because it was a graph that meassured the tempature changes in detail so a sub could often dive early in the day to a good deapth to meassure the thermals it found giving them a pretty good idea where the layers in that area would be in case they had to hide under one later.At least that was what Galantin did with Halibut.

[Rockin Robbins]

Time to answer the question, I guess. Actually hovering underwater is as easy as hovering on the surface. Usually water is divided into at least two layers, a top layer of warmer water and a lower layer of colder water. Colder water is more dense. It is not difficult to ballast the submarine so it has negative buoyancy in the warm water, but still has positive buoyancy in the cold layer below.

The submarine will then float on the layer for hours or days with no trim adjustments necessary. All power can be shut down if necessary because this is a stable condition.

[Schroeder]

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

Time to answer the question, I guess. Actually hovering underwater is as easy as hovering on the surface. Usually water is divided into at least two layers, a top layer of warmer water and a lower layer of colder water. Colder water is more dense. It is not difficult to ballast the submarine so it has negative buoyancy in the warm water, but still has positive buoyancy in the cold layer below.

The submarine will then float on the layer for hours or days with no trim adjustments necessary. All power can be shut down if necessary because this is a stable condition.

Sounds good. Too bad it isn't simulated.

[Vandrith]

Thanks for the suggestions everybody!

I did a quick test of the idea where you stay in the sonar room for the most part and it worked. Evasion took one-and-a-half days (game time.) But I escaped with a sunken Merchant Maru (9k Tons) and a Akizuki sunk.

[Stealhead]

Funny I had a very simular attack off of Japan last night in TMO1.7 it was a convoy with two Hiura liners(the old twin stacker in 1.5) good size ship they had a 3 Akizuki one leading and two on either flank crept in at silent getting some quick scope peeks and also checking the hydrophone. They where heading SW got to about 4500 had 3 mk14 and 3 mk18s sent the 3 14s in at the lead liner fired the 3 18s at the second though in my excitment I fired them at too long a range but figured maybe he will evade into them anyway. After the last fish i went to 145 and turned 180 away I wanted try a 27 at the Akizuki on my side of the convoy. Bleww the first liner sky high. Turn my speed up to lure the Akizuki in he took it fire the 27 at his bearing. Evaded a can run fine still waiting for this cutie to hit went to about 340ft am listening to two Akizuki on my stearn and one way ahead. Finally I hear the cutie hit. I cant take it so I pause and take a peek the thing hit him about 12 feet from the stern I think "well that will slow him down at least" it did 10 minutes later he sank! And the cutie only helped me get away as they must have thought it was a regular torp and based on its precived direction they went way off from me never came near me again and I never went below 345ft. Just did my basics below thermal layer but not too deep silent keeping em on my 180 ahead full when the trian comes and the random rudder turns to keep em looking but still focusing on keeping them on the 180 and always moving.

[CaptianT]

How do you find at what level the thermal layers are at?

[Stealhead]

As you dive deeper at some point a crewman will say "passing thermal layer" you must be at normal speed to hear it. Depth depends I have seen them as shallow as 100 feet or so other times as deep as 200 ft you just have to listen for the audio que to know where it is. If you are in water that is less than 150 feet deep you might not find one but in deep water there will always be a layer.Just be sure that you are under the layer not just above or in it or you wont get the full effect.

[Etienne]

Originally Posted by Stealhead

If you are in water that is less than 150 feet deep you might not find one but in deep water there will always be a layer.

It might be too deep for you to reach, however.

[CaptianT]

Thanks guys for the thermal information.