Planes are starting to annoy me - Page 6

Red Devil · 03-02-09, 02:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ancient46

For Red Devil: Logic Steps Between Air Sessions=10 ;[>0] steps between air fighting sessions, 10*Logic Interval(90sec) This is your problem, 20 is a setting that would bring a huge amount of planes your way.

From the instructions to the ASW Air Layer mod by Akbar Gulag and Donut http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=131709
"Using notepad, open the file then go to the last line. Alter the value 40 up or down. 10 being lots of traffic and 55 being very low. You could take it anywhere between 1 and 99, but we found over 55 to be near non-existent traffic.

Logic Steps Between Air Sessions=40

Once you have altered this value to the desired amount of traffic, save with notepad. Re-apply the MOD, your air frequency will now reflect the value you entered."

This is very helpful because it actually states "reapply your mod" - something I have never done assuming that the cfg file was now amended successfully. so now, I am going to remove RSRD and re-mod it.

rubenandthejets · 03-02-09, 05:56 AM

One of the thigs I found a little counter intuitive was the number of Japanese planes still in the air very late in the war. They were as thick as flies around the home islands (TMO for 1.4) so for a while I scratched my head and swore a lot and ranted about no fuel, repeated arifield sweeps by US carrier aircraft, the husbanding of aircraft for the impending invasion of Kyushu, the deplorable skill levels that weren't evident etc etc.

I finally stumbled across the rationale behind TMO and it all made sense. In the Atlantic, historically the war gets tougher and tougher for the UBoats. In the Pacific, it gets easier and easier historically-and where's the fun in that?

I was kind of looking forward to surfacing with imunity within a couple of NM of Tateyama, but I would've fallen asleep after ten minutes.

These days I'm playing with FOTRS and DAMN, you thought planes were bad before! They might not be around as often, but you'd better pay attenton when they are!

Red Devil · 03-02-09, 06:08 AM

I had a go after reinstalling the mod and encountered a couple of aircraft within an hour but that would possibly be normal, so I am going to give it a decent run before commenting on the effectiveness of the latest batch of instructions. But, one lives in hope

tater · 03-02-09, 08:54 AM

A few points.

1. The planes "coming at you" bit. I'm no fan of the SH4 airstrike paradigm, but you should know that while they are coming at you (sort of), they have NOT detected you (yet). The game generates them on a heading inside that 10nm circle, and they fly it. Detection is entirely separate.

2. IJNAF (it was almost entirely IJN air units flying sea patrols) planes certainly should get a little more dense over possible target areas later in the war. The IJN had air units tasked to patrol the convoy routes, and they actually even had pretty decent doctrine according to post war interviews with them I have read. They'd drop charges, AND dye markers, they would try and maintain contact or try and circle above submarine positions to force them to stay submerged, too. Still, they should not be "thick."

RSRDC doesn't have an Airstrike.cfg file, there is none to mod within RSRDC.

Red Devil · 03-02-09, 09:04 AM

tater, thanks. A few weeks ago I was so hit by planes, I had to abandon the game, and reload as it was a couple of thousand miles from "anywhere", no mainland mass or anything over an atoll in range. If there had been carriers, there would have been about 20-30 in thew area. As a Zero has a top range of slightly over 900 miles, well!

It wasn't even a recognisable target area, but my comments on detection still stand, a sub is miniscule in the Pacific.

tater · 03-02-09, 09:50 AM

From the air, they'd very likely be spotting the WAKE from any distance, not the boat itself. In 1944, many jap patrol aircraft had radar.

I have to say I'm baffled by many planes in RSRDC in the middle of the ocean, I counted on the last 8 patrols or so, and before I altered the airstrike cfg, I saw ZERO aircraft using the RFB Airstrike.cfg. Not one plane seen in many patrols.

Aircraft range is a problem with the airstrike system in SH4. My previous solution (for my campaign) was to grossly reduce some plane ranges. The zero, for example. yes, they had long range, but they'd not be out flying patrols over the ocean, they'd be either a CAP near an airfield, or they'd be on a specific mission someplace (which "Airstrike.cfg" doesn't model). So I dropped the zero's range to 40nm, and reduced the number in the airbase to 1-2. I similarly reduced the range of CV based aircraft to what you'd expect for them patrolling a TF. 40nm for val and kate. The betty is long-ranged, and also has to fill in for the G3M used in a maritime patrol role as well. Reducing the planes in the airgroups helps.

I'm working on a mod for myself (which I might release at some point) that is designed to bring the RSRDC air contacts into a rough balnce from what I've been reading in patrol reports. My "eyeball" estimate is 1-2 plane contacts per day within a few hundred miles of jap held areas. Some days maybe none, other days 2-3, average 1-2 someplace.

PRs typically have plane contacts upwards of a dozen per patrol.

Red Devil · 03-02-09, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tater

From the air, they'd very likely be spotting the WAKE from any distance, not the boat itself. In 1944, many jap patrol aircraft had radar.

I have to say I'm baffled by many planes in RSRDC in the middle of the ocean, I counted on the last 8 patrols or so, and before I altered the airstrike cfg, I saw ZERO aircraft using the RFB Airstrike.cfg. Not one plane seen in many patrols.

Aircraft range is a problem with the airstrike system in SH4. My previous solution (for my campaign) was to grossly reduce some plane ranges. The zero, for example. yes, they had long range, but they'd not be out flying patrols over the ocean, they'd be either a CAP near an airfield, or they'd be on a specific mission someplace (which "Airstrike.cfg" doesn't model). So I dropped the zero's range to 40nm, and reduced the number in the airbase to 1-2. I similarly reduced the range of CV based aircraft to what you'd expect for them patrolling a TF. 40nm for val and kate. The betty is long-ranged, and also has to fill in for the G3M used in a maritime patrol role as well. Reducing the planes in the airgroups helps.

I'm working on a mod for myself (which I might release at some point) that is designed to bring the RSRDC air contacts into a rough balnce from what I've been reading in patrol reports. My "eyeball" estimate is 1-2 plane contacts per day within a few hundred miles of jap held areas. Some days maybe none, other days 2-3, average 1-2 someplace.

PRs typically have plane contacts upwards of a dozen per patrol.

Your guesstimate sounds fairly accurate to me, I look forward to your mod. Dont know why I never thought of it before but I have a couple of contacts who were the "real thing" due to my pages on US Subs in The Pacific on my web site. I will ask them.

theluckyone17 · 03-02-09, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tater

I'm working on a mod for myself (which I might release at some point) that is designed to bring the RSRDC air contacts into a rough balnce from what I've been reading in patrol reports. My "eyeball" estimate is 1-2 plane contacts per day within a few hundred miles of jap held areas. Some days maybe none, other days 2-3, average 1-2 someplace.

PRs typically have plane contacts upwards of a dozen per patrol.

For what it's worth, I'd use it, too. My current career has played through 'til June of '42, and I still have yet to see an aircraft. Maybe I'll see some later on in the war...

Red Devil · 03-02-09, 11:13 AM

I know the webmaster on uss sealion, I await his reply.

longam · 03-02-09, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Devil

After complete reinstallation and on patch1.4 and RSRDC SH15_V400 running I altered the above line to the stated: but getting battered by planes in luzon. So going to try new career and see if it makes any difference.

Red Devil, is this a typo 'patch1.4 and RSRDC SH15_V400 running'

If not your running a version of RSRDC that was made for SH4 v1.5, which could cause problems.

Red Devil · 03-02-09, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by longam

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Devil

After complete reinstallation and on patch1.4 and RSRDC SH15_V400 running I altered the above line to the stated: but getting battered by planes in luzon. So going to try new career and see if it makes any difference.

Red Devil, is this a typo 'patch1.4 and RSRDC SH15_V400 running'

If not your running a version of RSRDC that was made for SH4 v1.5, which could cause problems.

Thats the download I was pointed to, no there is no typo.

So, ok then, which one should I be using

*totally besmiggled of UK*

The patch by the way was only added today, I didnt have it downloaded before.

Rockin Robbins · 03-02-09, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tater

PRs typically have plane contacts upwards of a dozen per patrol.

Well, I'm getting zero in RSRD/RFB. It is most boring and doesn't pass the smell test. I'm late 1941. I suppose the planes are all being used to kill people on land and don't care about me right now. After all, they didn't hassle the subs in Pearl either and there were plenty of to do it if they were so inclined.

tater · 03-02-09, 01:10 PM

RR, the biggest culpret here is NOT RSRDC. It's RFB. Assuming you exclusively play RSRDC (stock campaign is abysmal):

Unenable Mods.

Go into the MODS folder to the BASE RFB mod, RFB_v1.52_102408.

Go into Data/Cfg within the mod. DELETE Airstrike.cfg.

That's it.

Reenable RFB/RFB patches, then RSRDC. Enjoy planes trying to kill you sometimes.

RSRDC has planes, they just get eliminated by RFB, since RFB has an Airstrike.cfg designed to fix the superabundence of planes in STOCK.

Red Devil · 03-03-09, 06:27 AM

I received a reply from the USS Sealion webmaster

Quote:

Wow, kind of a loaded question! Without stating direct references to any and all Japanese aircraft specifically, I would have to say that the number of our subs significantly damaged or sunk would be extremely minimal (in fact I can't recall any sunk per se by the enemy but at least one by our own aircraft)...
With that said our boats transited many areas wherein the enemy might have enjoyed air superiority "at the time" (Borneo and surrounds for a time etc.)... Our boats by nature were overly cautious with any aircraft contacts by sight or radar and would go under to be safe even if they knew the plane to be ours - as the past had proven that our airmen were not the best at submarine recognition.

Our old U.S. submarine movies showed more damage to the boats than the Japanese ever were able to accomplish. "BUT" to be fair, I'll review the 52 lost during the war and see if any were directly attributable to a lucky aircraft hit...

Armistead · 03-03-09, 07:03 PM

I found the Guam Jap TF. Play without contacts, did have the freecam on this one patrol, but no next buttons. I sunk one carrier and had another listing. I don't know how many ships but it was huge with at least 4 Carriers.

After 10 dd's left me, I tracked it staying in radar range, couldn't do an end around, but thought I might catch it coming back. I had to play in almost real time, never could use TC above 8.

I guess they finally sent every plane the carriers had against me. I came up to periscope depth and bam bam bam..Used the cam to take a look and one group of four after the other attacked...the first one at least 24 planes dropped bombs. Then it was a train from the carriers to my sub of planes coming and going. This went on for hours. I finally got close enough to see the smoke and cut radar off, though I only made a few sweeps before and it stopped for awhile, but then out of nowhere here come the planes.

I finally had to come up. I was scared to lose contact, because having done this before the TF seems to vanish. My best gunners shot down 5 planes, got some minor damage...lost a gunner and went back down. Planes swarmed. Not sure how real it is to have over 100 planes attack you, but it was that many.

Finally after two days and around 20hrs real play in this battle, I just saved it.

Would like to know if the TF "despawns" for the lack of words if you lose all contact. This has happened before. I did do a save point and had them north and let the last ship just get out of radar range and could never find them again.

Went back to save point, hit flank as the same and they showed up in a few minutes.

03-02-09, 05:56 AM	#77
rubenandthejets 中国水兵 Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 279 Downloads: 20 Uploads: 0	One of the thigs I found a little counter intuitive was the number of Japanese planes still in the air very late in the war. They were as thick as flies around the home islands (TMO for 1.4) so for a while I scratched my head and swore a lot and ranted about no fuel, repeated arifield sweeps by US carrier aircraft, the husbanding of aircraft for the impending invasion of Kyushu, the deplorable skill levels that weren't evident etc etc. I finally stumbled across the rationale behind TMO and it all made sense. In the Atlantic, historically the war gets tougher and tougher for the UBoats. In the Pacific, it gets easier and easier historically-and where's the fun in that? I was kind of looking forward to surfacing with imunity within a couple of NM of Tateyama, but I would've fallen asleep after ten minutes. These days I'm playing with FOTRS and DAMN, you thought planes were bad before! They might not be around as often, but you'd better pay attenton when they are! __________________ HMAS Sydney III "Thorough and Ready"

03-02-09, 06:08 AM	#78
Red Devil The Old Man Join Date: May 2004 Location: Sutton Coldfield England Posts: 1,540 Downloads: 305 Uploads: 0	I had a go after reinstalling the mod and encountered a couple of aircraft within an hour but that would possibly be normal, so I am going to give it a decent run before commenting on the effectiveness of the latest batch of instructions. But, one lives in hope __________________ > > Captain!, there's a destroyer on the por........ periscope is flooded Sir! > Darkness is only the absence of Light; Ignorance is only the absence of knowledge © www.worldwartwo.uk www.captainwalker.uk

03-02-09, 09:04 AM	#80
Red Devil The Old Man Join Date: May 2004 Location: Sutton Coldfield England Posts: 1,540 Downloads: 305 Uploads: 0	tater, thanks. A few weeks ago I was so hit by planes, I had to abandon the game, and reload as it was a couple of thousand miles from "anywhere", no mainland mass or anything over an atoll in range. If there had been carriers, there would have been about 20-30 in thew area. As a Zero has a top range of slightly over 900 miles, well! It wasn't even a recognisable target area, but my comments on detection still stand, a sub is miniscule in the Pacific. __________________ > > Captain!, there's a destroyer on the por........ periscope is flooded Sir! > Darkness is only the absence of Light; Ignorance is only the absence of knowledge © www.worldwartwo.uk www.captainwalker.uk

03-02-09, 11:13 AM	#84
Red Devil The Old Man Join Date: May 2004 Location: Sutton Coldfield England Posts: 1,540 Downloads: 305 Uploads: 0	I know the webmaster on uss sealion, I await his reply. __________________ > > Captain!, there's a destroyer on the por........ periscope is flooded Sir! > Darkness is only the absence of Light; Ignorance is only the absence of knowledge © www.worldwartwo.uk www.captainwalker.uk

03-02-09, 08:54 AM	#79
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	A few points. 1. The planes "coming at you" bit. I'm no fan of the SH4 airstrike paradigm, but you should know that while they are coming at you (sort of), they have NOT detected you (yet). The game generates them on a heading inside that 10nm circle, and they fly it. Detection is entirely separate. 2. IJNAF (it was almost entirely IJN air units flying sea patrols) planes certainly should get a little more dense over possible target areas later in the war. The IJN had air units tasked to patrol the convoy routes, and they actually even had pretty decent doctrine according to post war interviews with them I have read. They'd drop charges, AND dye markers, they would try and maintain contact or try and circle above submarine positions to force them to stay submerged, too. Still, they should not be "thick." RSRDC doesn't have an Airstrike.cfg file, there is none to mod within RSRDC.

03-02-09, 09:50 AM	#81
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	From the air, they'd very likely be spotting the WAKE from any distance, not the boat itself. In 1944, many jap patrol aircraft had radar. I have to say I'm baffled by many planes in RSRDC in the middle of the ocean, I counted on the last 8 patrols or so, and before I altered the airstrike cfg, I saw ZERO aircraft using the RFB Airstrike.cfg. Not one plane seen in many patrols. Aircraft range is a problem with the airstrike system in SH4. My previous solution (for my campaign) was to grossly reduce some plane ranges. The zero, for example. yes, they had long range, but they'd not be out flying patrols over the ocean, they'd be either a CAP near an airfield, or they'd be on a specific mission someplace (which "Airstrike.cfg" doesn't model). So I dropped the zero's range to 40nm, and reduced the number in the airbase to 1-2. I similarly reduced the range of CV based aircraft to what you'd expect for them patrolling a TF. 40nm for val and kate. The betty is long-ranged, and also has to fill in for the G3M used in a maritime patrol role as well. Reducing the planes in the airgroups helps. I'm working on a mod for myself (which I might release at some point) that is designed to bring the RSRDC air contacts into a rough balnce from what I've been reading in patrol reports. My "eyeball" estimate is 1-2 plane contacts per day within a few hundred miles of jap held areas. Some days maybe none, other days 2-3, average 1-2 someplace. PRs typically have plane contacts upwards of a dozen per patrol.

03-02-09, 01:10 PM	#88
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	RR, the biggest culpret here is NOT RSRDC. It's RFB. Assuming you exclusively play RSRDC (stock campaign is abysmal): Unenable Mods. Go into the MODS folder to the BASE RFB mod, RFB_v1.52_102408. Go into Data/Cfg within the mod. DELETE Airstrike.cfg. That's it. Reenable RFB/RFB patches, then RSRDC. Enjoy planes trying to kill you sometimes. RSRDC has planes, they just get eliminated by RFB, since RFB has an Airstrike.cfg designed to fix the superabundence of planes in STOCK.

03-03-09, 07:03 PM	#90
Armistead Rear Admiral Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: on the Dan Posts: 10,880 Downloads: 364 Uploads: 0	I found the Guam Jap TF. Play without contacts, did have the freecam on this one patrol, but no next buttons. I sunk one carrier and had another listing. I don't know how many ships but it was huge with at least 4 Carriers. After 10 dd's left me, I tracked it staying in radar range, couldn't do an end around, but thought I might catch it coming back. I had to play in almost real time, never could use TC above 8. I guess they finally sent every plane the carriers had against me. I came up to periscope depth and bam bam bam..Used the cam to take a look and one group of four after the other attacked...the first one at least 24 planes dropped bombs. Then it was a train from the carriers to my sub of planes coming and going. This went on for hours. I finally got close enough to see the smoke and cut radar off, though I only made a few sweeps before and it stopped for awhile, but then out of nowhere here come the planes. I finally had to come up. I was scared to lose contact, because having done this before the TF seems to vanish. My best gunners shot down 5 planes, got some minor damage...lost a gunner and went back down. Planes swarmed. Not sure how real it is to have over 100 planes attack you, but it was that many. Finally after two days and around 20hrs real play in this battle, I just saved it. Would like to know if the TF "despawns" for the lack of words if you lose all contact. This has happened before. I did do a save point and had them north and let the last ship just get out of radar range and could never find them again. Went back to save point, hit flank as the same and they showed up in a few minutes.