Possible to replace the droids with SH4 crew? - Page 3

Reece · 06-26-10, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by urfisch

i still hope to see sh5 and sh3 benefits merged into a game, the blows the hell out of us!!!

possible? i´ve just seen the ships simulator on e3...nice engine, though. maybe this might be a good base for starting from scratch?

Ship Sim only has a small world of around 100km.

06-26-10, 10:16 PM

Createing new animations is not that big of a deal.
It's the importing of those that is the problem at this time.
All the animations are broken up in a way that no Tool
available to us will do the job.
They can be Hexed into place once we discover the correct way to do so.

I did do some hexing on animation files.
I cut parts out with a hex editor, combined everything into a single dat,
then checked it with S3D.
It worked to a point.
I'm still missing the 'magic combination'.
Once that is found?
All bets are off.

Darkbluesky · 07-01-10, 07:01 AM

It seems difficult to import them...why we don't rebuild from scratch the crew models? If so, which other things should be changed? Hardcoded or not?

Or is it possible to modify in a way that the same anim data works?, that should be ideal. I mean, if they were done from scratch, how to be sure that the anims will work ok w/o need of modification? Are there some "key" vertex whose position should be respected?

Even if it was just make a new 3D model or modify the existant I would be willing to try myself but I don't know how to model. I am afraid it is not a work for a 3D modelling newbie...

Hitman · 07-01-10, 07:14 AM

Quote:

why we don't rebuild from scratch the crew models?

As Privateer says, the problem is not creating animations, but the way the created animation is split and stored across the different files of the game. It is some sort of puzzle, and if you don't know where to place one of the bits or how to link it to others, it will not work correctly.

Darkbluesky · 07-01-10, 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hitman

As Privateer says, the problem is not creating animations, but the way the created animation is split and stored across the different files of the game. It is some sort of puzzle, and if you don't know where to place one of the bits or how to link it to others, it will not work correctly.

Yes, but if not from scratch, then as I say (sorry, I was editing at same time that you answered), would it be possible to rebuild the models by respecting some "restrictions" that guarantees us that it will be "compatible" with the existing definition of the animation?

If we would know what are these "restrictions", maybe we could have freedom in the rest of the model to change it... Maybe it could be enough!(?).

Of course, if these "restictions" is the complete model, up to the last vertex, then that is not a solution, as we would need to adapt animation anyway... It is for that, that I wonder up to which extend we could modify the models without altering the animation...(?)

07-09-10, 07:32 PM

Several VERY talanted people have looked at the Crew Animations.
Time and Time again!

There is a twist to the way they are placed in SH3 that we have not figured out yet.

Doing replacement animations is simple to build, Yes.
Importing them is still a Hex only event.

But we don't have the final keys yet.

You CAN NOT just replace the original crew body and stuff.
All animations are built off of the orginal 3D Model.
Change the Original Model?
The animations go whacky.

I still am bashing my head over the final key!!

If I can break this?

I could walk on water and not be happier!

urfisch · 07-10-10, 06:24 PM

yeah, this is the problem. the main frame, that makes it easy to get all anis work with a changed model. i am no coding guy, but some time ago i digged into this and surrendered to the complexity...every animation has its own coordinates from the vertices, that move. so by thinking logically on this, you would need to adjust every new vertice by HAND - impossible. the new animation also goes wacky, if the new model has more vertices, than the old one. maybe the way is a loggin tool, that writes the data the vertices move directly from 3ds or some other animation software, where you create the new animation with a new model. and this data is placed into the old "coordinates" from the former model animation, like dropping content into a container.

cant help more on this, im sorry.

07-10-10, 07:09 PM

Useing a Hex editor, you can build an exportable animation of the Crew.
But there is still somethings I don't understand yet to get the correct
model exports.
Exporting correct model animations gives us the key to import new.
S3D along with hexing will solve the puzzle.
Until there is good news on the SH5 front?
I'll go back to things for SH3 as my main focus.
At lest things work 90% of the time in SH3.

07-11-10, 03:23 PM

Today I got the body animations for the
POS_20mmTwin_UFlak.anm
exported successfully.

I'll take one of the higher poly Charactors I've got and re-create the
positions and do an import.
I'll then move the animations to the correct area and test it.

I've also got a good handle on the eyes, lips,etc.

So if the body works OK, I'll do the head next.

Reece · 07-11-10, 07:35 PM

You are persistent!!

Best of luck!

07-12-10, 12:57 AM

Thunder got me started down the animations trail.
He did the base animations for the Lifeboats stuff and I imported them.
He taught me enuff to realize I could get dangerous!

Those are simple animation jobs now.
I always wanted to go after the Crew animation stuff after that.
Skwasjer did a fine job codeing S3D to be able to do this.
Several of us discussed the Animations format with him while he was working on this part of S3D.
For SH3 Crew Animations,
S3D will do the job of importing and exporting.
It will also allow building the correct dat format to do this,
then allow moveing the needed parts to the proper places.
S3D will also allow tweaking things in real time.

I'll start keeping notes to provide a tutorial to all.
And make the rigs and base models available ASAP.
(Rigs and Models subject to change)

Before anyone asks,
S3D will not open the animations in SH4's Animations on demand folder.
That is a different animation setup all together.
But I am looking at those files.
If I can figure them out?
perhaps a re-write of some S3D files will allow opening them.
But that's secondary to finishing the steps for SH3 work.

For the base tests I'm useing a very simple Biped Rig.
As I'm only changeing the body at this point.
Granted,
any other Crew member useing the same body will be whacked
in Game at this point.
Because all animations use 1 of several bodies.
So any 3D Crew Mod will require MASSIVE amounts of 3D animation work!
Then the work to build export/import dats,
then placeing chunks in the proper places.

Model Specs for this test:
Stock Model:
1250 Vertices
1751 Faces

Test Model:
2255 Vertices
2807 Faces

Target Animation:
POS_20mmTwin_UFlak.anm

Reason for this Target:
Very simple animation to prove the theory of Crew Animation Modifications and how to proceed.

Reason to even try this madness:
1:
I'm tired of the Idiot danceing on the freaking Pole!

2:
Next time one of the Crew look out the side of thier eyes at me?
I'll have his eyes on the floor!

3: (and most important)
Time to open new doors on what Modders can do!

07-14-10, 04:52 PM

Not against all Mate.
Just interested in animation stuff.

It took years to break SH3 animations.
The skeletal animations are probably based on the .bip format?
(3D Max is the main tool as far as I know)

So cracking the incodeing is possible.
If S3D can not handle the job?
We create a new tool that will.

But that is for later work.
I have much to do now.

urfisch · 07-21-10, 03:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by privateer

Today I got the body animations for the
POS_20mmTwin_UFlak.anm
exported successfully.

I'll take one of the higher poly Charactors I've got and re-create the
positions and do an import.
I'll then move the animations to the correct area and test it.

I've also got a good handle on the eyes, lips,etc.

So if the body works OK, I'll do the head next.

you are the man, dude!

Damo · 07-27-10, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by privateer

Reason to even try this madness:
1:
I'm tired of the Idiot danceing on the freaking Pole!

I'm sooo with you on that one, especially when the red lights are on, I feel so dirty just looking at him.....

Good luck with it.

Damo.

Myxale · 07-28-10, 12:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damo

I'm sooo with you on that one, especially when the red lights are on, I feel so dirty just looking at him.....

Good luck with it.

Damo.

Damn you guys...i'll never look at the LI the same way again-

07-01-10, 07:01 AM	#33
Darkbluesky Sparky Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 155 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 0	It seems difficult to import them...why we don't rebuild from scratch the crew models? If so, which other things should be changed? Hardcoded or not? Or is it possible to modify in a way that the same anim data works?, that should be ideal. I mean, if they were done from scratch, how to be sure that the anims will work ok w/o need of modification? Are there some "key" vertex whose position should be respected? Even if it was just make a new 3D model or modify the existant I would be willing to try myself but I don't know how to model. I am afraid it is not a work for a 3D modelling newbie... Last edited by Darkbluesky; 07-01-10 at 07:17 AM.

07-10-10, 06:24 PM	#37
urfisch Sea Lord Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Deep down in Germany Posts: 1,969 Downloads: 42 Uploads: 0	yeah, this is the problem. the main frame, that makes it easy to get all anis work with a changed model. i am no coding guy, but some time ago i digged into this and surrendered to the complexity...every animation has its own coordinates from the vertices, that move. so by thinking logically on this, you would need to adjust every new vertice by HAND - impossible. the new animation also goes wacky, if the new model has more vertices, than the old one. maybe the way is a loggin tool, that writes the data the vertices move directly from 3ds or some other animation software, where you create the new animation with a new model. and this data is placed into the old "coordinates" from the former model animation, like dropping content into a container. cant help more on this, im sorry. __________________

07-11-10, 07:35 PM	#40
Reece CINC Pacific Fleet Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Down Under Posts: 34,701 Downloads: 171 Uploads: 0	You are persistent!! Best of luck! __________________ *Sub captains go down with their ship!*

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06-26-10, 10:16 PM	#32
Madox58 Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	Createing new animations is not that big of a deal. It's the importing of those that is the problem at this time. All the animations are broken up in a way that no Tool available to us will do the job. They can be Hexed into place once we discover the correct way to do so. I did do some hexing on animation files. I cut parts out with a hex editor, combined everything into a single dat, then checked it with S3D. It worked to a point. I'm still missing the 'magic combination'. Once that is found? All bets are off.

07-09-10, 07:32 PM	#36
Madox58 Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	Several VERY talanted people have looked at the Crew Animations. Time and Time again! There is a twist to the way they are placed in SH3 that we have not figured out yet. Doing replacement animations is simple to build, Yes. Importing them is still a Hex only event. But we don't have the final keys yet. You CAN NOT just replace the original crew body and stuff. All animations are built off of the orginal 3D Model. Change the Original Model? The animations go whacky. I still am bashing my head over the final key!! If I can break this? I could walk on water and not be happier!

07-10-10, 07:09 PM	#38
Madox58 Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	Useing a Hex editor, you can build an exportable animation of the Crew. But there is still somethings I don't understand yet to get the correct model exports. Exporting correct model animations gives us the key to import new. S3D along with hexing will solve the puzzle. Until there is good news on the SH5 front? I'll go back to things for SH3 as my main focus. At lest things work 90% of the time in SH3.

07-11-10, 03:23 PM	#39
Madox58 Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	Today I got the body animations for the POS_20mmTwin_UFlak.anm exported successfully. I'll take one of the higher poly Charactors I've got and re-create the positions and do an import. I'll then move the animations to the correct area and test it. I've also got a good handle on the eyes, lips,etc. So if the body works OK, I'll do the head next.

07-12-10, 12:57 AM	#41
Madox58 Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	Thunder got me started down the animations trail. He did the base animations for the Lifeboats stuff and I imported them. He taught me enuff to realize I could get dangerous! Those are simple animation jobs now. I always wanted to go after the Crew animation stuff after that. Skwasjer did a fine job codeing S3D to be able to do this. Several of us discussed the Animations format with him while he was working on this part of S3D. For SH3 Crew Animations, S3D will do the job of importing and exporting. It will also allow building the correct dat format to do this, then allow moveing the needed parts to the proper places. S3D will also allow tweaking things in real time. I'll start keeping notes to provide a tutorial to all. And make the rigs and base models available ASAP. (Rigs and Models subject to change) Before anyone asks, S3D will not open the animations in SH4's Animations on demand folder. That is a different animation setup all together. But I am looking at those files. If I can figure them out? perhaps a re-write of some S3D files will allow opening them. But that's secondary to finishing the steps for SH3 work. For the base tests I'm useing a very simple Biped Rig. As I'm only changeing the body at this point. Granted, any other Crew member useing the same body will be whacked in Game at this point. Because all animations use 1 of several bodies. So any 3D Crew Mod will require MASSIVE amounts of 3D animation work! Then the work to build export/import dats, then placeing chunks in the proper places. Model Specs for this test: Stock Model: 1250 Vertices 1751 Faces Test Model: 2255 Vertices 2807 Faces Target Animation: POS_20mmTwin_UFlak.anm Reason for this Target: Very simple animation to prove the theory of Crew Animation Modifications and how to proceed. Reason to even try this madness: 1: I'm tired of the Idiot danceing on the freaking Pole! 2: Next time one of the Crew look out the side of thier eyes at me? I'll have his eyes on the floor! 3: (and most important) Time to open new doors on what Modders can do!

07-14-10, 04:52 PM	#42
Madox58 Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	Not against all Mate. Just interested in animation stuff. It took years to break SH3 animations. The skeletal animations are probably based on the .bip format? (3D Max is the main tool as far as I know) So cracking the incodeing is possible. If S3D can not handle the job? We create a new tool that will. But that is for later work. I have much to do now.