Ever destroy a ship with all hands?

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Mouftic

If you look at your list of 'withouts', not because they dont mention it means that it didn't happen. HMCS Louisburg is a perfect example. U-boat.net doesn't mention anything, but survivors of the sinking specificly mention the depth charges going off.
I would not call those 'whithouts', facts to contredict what was told.
Most are just partial accounts of the sinking and dont go into details.

Granted, some of that is true. Is it all. I'm not claiming it didn't happen, just that your use of the word "normally" is without merit.

Most of your withouts, should be in the possible section.

"Most"? You're generalizing. Unless every single case is examined there is no way to know, and if you have to make assumptions it's always better to assume something didn't happen than that it did.

[quoted]Although the facts I showed you cannot be denied because they are clearly stated.[/quoted]
No, statements given without proof are not facts, just claims.

Althought I agree with you that anyone can publish a book... I dont think its in his favor to lie. Also, did you check his sources before implying this?

I didn't say he lied. He did, however, make an unsubstantiated claim. The burden of proof is on the claimant.

Never! Sorry if took it that way. Maybe because English is my second language, it sounded like an insult to you. I have much respect in life for anyone and I can see that you are an esteemed part of this community and did much for it. (And I also use your ship names list)

I'm sorry if I took it that way too.

What do you know about my researches? I am pretty well versed in the subject being a sonar operator myself while I was in service, we did have history courses on the matter of ASW weapons and yes it was mentionned that they were a cause for many deaths after own ship sunk. I also have my own little library of books here. Mostly on Canadian naval history. I was (and still am) a passionate person for naval history, and that for personnal reasons which I mentionned in my first post.

You're right, but all I have to go on is what you presented.

Well, you are 'rephrasing' some of your arguments and yet you put a lot of emphasis on my "normally".
To be honest, althought I dont know you much, I think you don't like being proven wrong.

A little bit about myself. I have a very long history (30+ years) of dealing with gamers who constantly want to change rules because of one thing they read somewhere, and a fairly long history here of watching people come up with all kinds of reasons why this or that thing should be changed or "fixed" in one of these games. You said that "normally frigates would have a high death rate because of the size of the ship containaing so much explosives"[/quote]
Normally they did not have such a high death rate. Yes, you showed examples of all hands being lost, but there are many more examples of a low death rate. Second was the depth charge explosions. Yes, it happened, but you need to show that it happened more often than not, or "normally doesn't apply.

Again you are making progress like your quote below. At first it was "Nope" in your initial reply and now its "questionable".

And again you're making this personal. It's not.

I am not trying to be 'victorious', I just dont like people questioning me when they themselves are not versed in the subject.

I challenged your statement. That's not the same as questioning you.

Maybe you need proof for everything (you must not believe in books), but for me being in the business myself, find that it's just common knowledge to me.

I do believe in books, but I expect the authors not to make unsubstantiated claims. If you accept those claims without questioning, then maybe you need to be more careful. Something you consider "common knowledge" may be nothing of the kind.

I could do extensive research on the subject I suppossed but it would be very hard to convice you since you would need every sources from every author's and still I think it would'nt be good enough .

You think wrong. If you can show positively that it happened more often than not you'll be surprised how quickly I apologize. If you think otherwise then you haven't read many of my threads.

I sincerely find this discussion or "argument" very interesting and I hope you escuse me if you think I am being rude with you.

I am actually a very easy going person and was labeled the joker of the ship while in service.
As you can see my signature below, I really told the Captain to shhhh while I was tracking a submarine and he found that pretty funny. That's just the kind of guy I am.

Note to anyone following this thread: I have no grudge against Sailor Steve. I have most respect for what he does in this community. May this discussion be educationnal to all.

Why thank you. That's actually gracious of you. I am quite the doubter myself. I don't trust myself, and I don't trust any source. I once asked the question of whether Thomas Jefferson really wrote our Declaration of Independence in 1776. After all, I have no direct proof of that either. Sure, it's been around as long as I can remember, but before that? I accept it at face value solely because I have no reason not to. But beyond that? I want proof for everything, including my own existence. I don't believe anything until it's absolutely, undeniably proven.

But that's just me.