AI generated shipping question for RSRDC

[JoeCorrado]

Originally Posted by Webster

yep, that pretty much put an end to my desire to create any more mods and its only the perfectionist in me that pushed me to redo some of my older mods to clean them up and fine tune them as a "final" work and contribution so to speak. I still hope one day to find the motivation and time to do a GFO v2.0 to bring in the latest tweaks created for the game but I still have a bad taste from those attacks.

Just so ya know, I removed RSRDC until I am able to try and add some traffic of my own back into it. Or (as is more likely) until somebody with more skills than I have does it first. If it weren't for talent like that found here, my copy of SH4 would have been forgotten long ago. No way I could have made it enjoyable.

Anyway, I re-installed SH4 and used GFO as my first MOD. A life saver that was for me! As you can see, I have quite a MOD buffet going on right now- but everything works well together so far and almost no tweaking needed from me to make it happen- from my experience, always a good thing.
_____________

Generic Mod Enabler - v2.6.0.157
[C:\Program Files (x86)\UBI_CUSTOM_SH4\Silent Hunter Wolves of the Pacific\MODS]

Game Fixes Only Mod v1.1
SonarTargetFix2_stock_Install BEFORE EAX Sounds
EAXsoundsim_STOCK_GFO_OM
MaxOptics IV for SH4 1.5
FJB Camera Mod AFTER MaxOptics
GREEN LOCK
Nav Map Make-Over v. 2.0
NMMO Airbase Add-on
Office Images
Radio RAK-7 (CND-46155)
Webster's Easy to Read Game Text
Webster's New Sounds for SH4
Webster's Upgraded Deck Gun v1
STOCK_different_smoke
Crew Rank Fix - Stock
TMO_Stock15_interior3d_BALAO_overhaul
TMO_Stock15_interior3d_SALMON_overhaul
TMO_Stock15_interior3d_GATO_USSDRUM
Gato_Interior_gauges_ver_2
3000 Meter Bearing Tool (1360x)
SS174 USS Shark_FooBor's PORPOISE HEAVY WTH HI-RES V1.0
SS191 USS Sculpin_Sargo Black
SS228 USS Drum_Combo Gato Fooskin
Speed and Depth US Submarines
Z_LAST MOD - replace to add My Orders Bar_small NAV tools_Mini Chrono_And Crew Text Position

[TorpX]

Originally Posted by Webster

yep, that pretty much put an end to my desire to create any more mods ... I still hope one day to find the motivation and time to do ... but I still have a bad taste from those attacks.

This is kind of discouraging, actually.

If modders and potential modders are worn down and wearied by many and varied, arcane rules of modding etiquette, we can pretty much forget about getting any further improvements to the game. I hope the powers that be will consider this, when it comes time to decide these issues.

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

Well, as the maker of some of that stink I remember that Webster's first inclination was to release GFO as a patch. I objected because patches are released by game companies and include code changes as well as moddable file changes. Also calling something a patch would imply Ubi authorship and I believed that wasn't proper.

well I don't want to get into all that but the name thing wasn't the cause of me quitting but I admit it was an extra incentive when someone is denied the right to name their own mod as they see fit without constant harassment by a select few.

RR I never found anything you ever said to be anything but your honest opinion done respectfully which is all I ask of anyone to give, if we don't get honest opinions from others then we have nothing to judge our selves by.

anyway guys I think we are hijacking this thread too much so lets get back to talking about the AI that the thread is about

[Armistead]

IMO, if RSRD is to be made better, rather than see several people make mods to improve it, I would rather see one project mod led by an experienced modder like Scurvy. If several released their idea of an updated RSRD, people will be left to one choice or mod stacking which wouldn't work.

They're several mods already that improve RSRD, but don't work with each other or overwrite the others changes. Many of us have our own mods. If someone would take the time to compare and get all the changes into one setup, we all win.

[Rockin Robbins]

Agreed! Capn, are you amenable to taking the point on this thing? SH4UBM with TMO and RSRD fully patched as a base. All submissions go to you ready for inclusion. You decide on any conflicts between submissions, consulting with the Indians if you so choose. No voting--no crying? I personally would like the SCAF to stay out and be available as a separate plugin for reasons we all understand, but you decide and I won't cry.

Webster, the naming fisco on your supermod came out in the best possible way. If you had given it another name it would be Webster's Whatever Mod and nowhere as memorable as GFO. In order to achieve immortality you or your work must have a cool acronym: FDR, JFK, LBJ, WWII, GWX, TMO, RFB, GFO. They all have that in common. Even long after people forget what the words that made up the acronym were, they remember the acronym.

I'm thankful that I didn't have a part in discouraging you from modding. Remember that those who do always have their detractors. They aren't attacking because they don't like what you do, they attack simply because you do things and they do not. Remember that and keep doing. Their very criticism is validation of your action.

If you do nothing, or something of little merit there is no reason for those non-contributors to attack. Take your lumps with a bit of a smile and a bounce to your step.

Oh, and I thought of something else. Unless we want to resurrect Jxte, which would really muddy the waters and make installation much more difficult, in order to mod, you have to insert an entire file in place of what already exists. If you're modding AI, for instance and you want to incorporate Duci's MAD sensor, you must first load up the RSRD file, then modify the parameters that make the MOD sensor. You end up with an entire file containing yours and Lurker's work. There's no avoiding this. But Lurker's work contains 89% Ubi work too. As long as the base is unchanged RSRD and you are installing your modified parameter file on top, you are not disrespecting Lurker in my way of thinking.

As long as modding is replacing an entire file with an entire other file, there's no escape and never was another way. We're doing nothing that every mod ever created didn't do. I think we have a non-issue.

I think this "intellectual property" notion of mods is silly anyway. When you release it on the internet it is community property as far as I'm concerned. My mods say PLEASE copy my mod. Yeah, it cuts my income in half but what the hay?

[CapnScurvy]

Ok I'll do it. I'm maybe a quarter of the way through as is.

I'm using RSRDC_V5xx_Patch1 as my base files for modding. This Patch is compatible with the three versions of RSRDC, so there's not much to worry about between TMO's added campaigns, and whatever RFB did (if anything?). It happens to have the very merchant and oil tanker mission routes that should be increased in value to cause more merchant traffic.

I'll keep this confined to just increasing merchant traffic, correcting any errors I'll find, and getting the travel speeds between waypoints to live happily with the requirement of not letting it drop below half the rated maximum speed for any particular ship.

This isn't going to be done with the snap of my fingers, so be patient (I've still got a harvest to do around here as well ). But, I'll release it as soon as I can.

[Armistead]

I think we should agree exacty how far we're going or what will be the goal, a simply mod or a complex mod. My idea was a more consuming mod.
Yep, the merchants could be addressed, but honestly having more or less single merchants really doesn't add much.

Redo all the crew ratings {course that's 80% of files} at least to bring RSRD to a TMO level. Like I said, get the merchant and capital ships to vet and elite ratigs, then redo escorts. Frankly I would like to see a mix from poor to elite on the above.

Add ships such as the Nagato, hospital ships, several others.

Rework the RSRD sensors that change TMO. Tater did some of this, but
just depends what we're after.

Rework the ports, add guns, lights, nets, mines, etc. Make it difficult as it should be, then special missions inside ports would be more fun.

Per above, correct and add special missions.

Maybe agree to use TMO's convoy layers if OK with Duci, course people could do tha on their own.

Certainly add more mis files with more traffic. For instance I have a china traffic mis folder, lots of groups later war that actually run the coast line, so you can really only attack seaside and at night.

I guess it shouldn't evolve more than traffic, up to you guys.

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by CapnScurvy

Ok I'll do it. I'm maybe a quarter of the way through as is.

I'm using RSRDC_V5xx_Patch1 as my base files for modding. This Patch is compatible with the three versions of RSRDC, so there's not much to worry about between TMO's added campaigns, and whatever RFB did (if anything?). It happens to have the very merchant and oil tanker mission routes that should be increased in value to cause more merchant traffic.

I'll keep this confined to just increasing merchant traffic, correcting any errors I'll find, and getting the travel speeds between waypoints to live happily with the requirement of not letting it drop below half the rated maximum speed for any particular ship.

This isn't going to be done with the snap of my fingers, so be patient (I've still got a harvest to do around here as well ). But, I'll release it as soon as I can.

Well if youre going to do it then Ill wait on that part and see how yours works out.I deleted single merchants except a small loners in coastal areas after mid 44 since Japanese no longer had their important merchants/tankersrunning solo across the pacific etc.

Something lurker did that drivers me nuts is prob 70% of his tankers single and convoy do not have fuel as their cargo.I have changed that in most of RSRD's convoys and started to on the single tankers.

I have been working on an upgrade for RSRD for a while now, what began as improvements for my own and some testing for armistead(his darker nights are great, can pull off realistic night surface attacks now) has turned into a project.I am hoping to release in December or January, schedule permitting. Look forward to seeing what you come up with, ill hold off on the singles.

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by Armistead

I think we should agree exacty how far we're going or what will be the goal, a simply mod or a complex mod. My idea was a more consuming mod.
Yep, the merchants could be addressed, but honestly having more or less single merchants really doesn't add much.

Redo all the crew ratings {course that's 80% of files} at least to bring RSRD to a TMO level. Like I said, get the merchant and capital ships to vet and elite ratigs, then redo escorts. Frankly I would like to see a mix from poor to elite on the above.

Add ships such as the Nagato, hospital ships, several others.

Rework the RSRD sensors that change TMO. Tater did some of this, but
just depends what we're after.

Rework the ports, add guns, lights, nets, mines, etc. Make it difficult as it should be, then special missions inside ports would be more fun.

Per above, correct and add special missions.

Maybe agree to use TMO's convoy layers if OK with Duci, course people could do tha on their own.

Certainly add more mis files with more traffic. For instance I have a china traffic mis folder, lots of groups later war that actually run the coast line, so you can really only attack seaside and at night.

I guess it shouldn't evolve more than traffic, up to you guys.

I foe one think it should involve more than traffic.Upgrading it so it has TMO sensors etc for TMO difficulty is key, especially the aircraft.The reworked ports, mines, nets you speak of would be a great addition. Also, the special missions is a key element to upgrading RSRD, esp for Narwhal and older boats Porpoise etc in later war.The older boats were basically withdrawn from front lines, were given second tier assignments like lifeguard off bypassed islands where were unlikely to run into the effective asw assets.Narwhals of course were busy with special missions from 43 on.

I guess we should all have a conference of sorts at some point, coordinate efforts.

[Rockin Robbins]

Originally Posted by Armistead

I guess it shouldn't evolve more than traffic, up to you guys.

I'm all for restoring TMO difficulty settings, but if we do then this mod is only good with TMO. Scurvy has a great idea to make this mod work for all the supermods. THEN a separate mod to restore Duci's AI settings would be appropriate.

Include too much and you limit the number of people who can benefit or you make yourself produce multiple mods. The more complicated you make it the more mistakes it will contain.

With separate modules, you can take a module out and see if the mistake goes away. If so you found where your problem is, so troubleshooting could be easier too.

Thanks Capn, no hurry. Do it right rather than quickly every time.

[lurker_hlb3]

Okay boys, I haven't fallen off the edge of the world as some of you may think, but I still come here every so often, just to see what's going on. I have read this thread with great interest and have decided to give you guys my permission to do whatever you want to RSRD. Just remember that once you go there and start making changes you have to live with the results. The only thing I ask is you give me credit for my original work.

This is my one and only post and I will not be responding after this time.

Leigh

[Armistead]

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

I'm all for restoring TMO difficulty settings, but if we do then this mod is only good with TMO. Scurvy has a great idea to make this mod work for all the supermods. THEN a separate mod to restore Duci's AI settings would be appropriate.

Include too much and you limit the number of people who can benefit or you make yourself produce multiple mods. The more complicated you make it the more mistakes it will contain.

With separate modules, you can take a module out and see if the mistake goes away. If so you found where your problem is, so troubleshooting could be easier too.

Thanks Capn, no hurry. Do it right rather than quickly every time.

Well, TMO's difficulty settings wouldn't be difficult to restore, really not much to it, the bigger issue is the crew ratings.

Anyway, glad to see lurker giving his permission, makes me feel more comfortable about it.

[CapnScurvy]

Originally Posted by lurker_hlb3

Okay boys, I haven't fallen off the edge of the world as some of you may think, but I still come here every so often, just to see what's going on. I have read this thread with great interest and have decided to give you guys my permission to do whatever you want to RSRD. Just remember that once you go there and start making changes you have to live with the results. The only thing I ask is you give me credit for my original work.

This is my one and only post and I will not be responding after this time.

Leigh

Thanks Leigh, and good to hear from you!!

RSRDC has always been my favorite mod due to the reworked/historic campaign files, and the shear number of added ships to the game. The addition of your work makes the game feel much more authentic in overall scope.

Yes, I'd like to tweak the spawn levels, increasing route traffic. In my opinion, authenticity doesn't always make for good game play (who wants to play a mission in "real time" without time compression?).

Take care,
Lee