If they cant do AI wolfpacks...

[looney]

I don't think the problem is the "planes", but the effect of the "planes" on the theatre of war. The effect of the subs should be calculated also. thus we get more variables: location, kills, attacks made, attacks suffered, chanche of spotting a convoy (weather related), random accidents, random encouters etc etc etc..

Those factors make it hard. A plane only around for a few moments and isn't that important as such. Also as there is no direct interaction between subs (only my megaphone and strobe light), there is no real need for AI subs.

P.s. I just read Iron coffins (great book) and it seems they could learn a lot from the actions of companion subs (I mean they would hear DC attacks torpedoes etc etc). I found the number of attacks they suffered extremely high (outbound and inbound from brest, about 4-8 a day as long as they would be in the bay).

[thruster]

my understanding is that in RL hunting uboats almost never met. so can someone explain why this isnt good enough or wouldnt work:
you see a convoy- you radio its position.>random radio traffic generated.> attacks randomly generated against your convoy at different areas. more radio calls made = more attacks generated. this means escorts randomly get diverted and attack an area hence freeing you up for an attack. obviously huff-duff makes it dangerous to make radio calls as the war progresses. or;
you pick up either the random depth charging of a distant convoy or random radio calls from supposed other boats.

its just a question of random event generation. if you want to see other boats, then they can be presented as just another skimmer, is it a friendly or enemy?

i think the real opportunity for actual visuals would be some sort of animated sequence for milkcow meetings mid atlantic.

[JU_88]

Originally Posted by thruster

my understanding is that in RL hunting uboats almost never met. so can someone explain why this isnt good enough or wouldnt work:
you see a convoy- you radio its position.>random radio traffic generated.> attacks randomly generated against your convoy at different areas. more radio calls made = more attacks generated. this means escorts randomly get diverted and attack an area hence freeing you up for an attack. obviously huff-duff makes it dangerous to make radio calls as the war progresses. or;
you pick up either the random depth charging of a distant convoy or random radio calls from supposed other boats.

its just a question of random event generation. if you want to see other boats, then they can be presented as just another skimmer, is it a friendly or enemy?

i think the real opportunity for actual visuals would be some sort of animated sequence for milkcow meetings mid atlantic.

probabaly would work but i would geuss it is easier to code an AI sub, than it is to script these random events then put something in place to ensure Escorts respond in a convincing manner to the presence of ghost Uboats.

The Escort Ai has to determine, what to attack and how to attack it 7 when to give up... etc
What you discribe would almost be on par with an AI uboat without a 3d model attached.
To external camera users it will look like it is a horrible bug!
unless i have misunderstood....

[thruster]

thanks Ju88, im not sure how it would look like a bug?
-if a random 'uboat attack(s)' was generated in response to your radioing, it would present as 1 or more ships in the convoy suddenly being hit. thats what youd see if you were actually there. the escorts would be diverted to the relevent area and go thru an attack sequence. this is what would happen, and also allows sudden holes to present in the escort screen. also, there mustve been numerous examples of escorts simply depthcharging empty water because they were spooked, how cool would it be to track an unseen contact by that method!?
as the uboat driver, theres in RL nothing to see in a wolfpack, just radio traffic and its random effects; so simply randomly generate it accordingly?
-if you really want to see another submarine, include them presented as a skimmer like any other ship. if multiple classes are modelled then only when you get close is it possible to ID it as friendly or not. how cool to torpedo an enemy sub!
-the real eye candy prize would be milkcows. actually formateing with another mid atlantic would be awesome. the easiest way would i guess be to have an animated sequence, where at certain stages in that sequence you could be attacked. the milkcow sub has certain predetermined options in response and you do what you want in your uboat. is that too hard?

i look fwd to your thoughts. cheers.

[JU_88]

Originally Posted by thruster

thanks Ju88, im not sure how it would look like a bug?
-if a random 'uboat attack(s)' was generated in response to your radioing, it would present as 1 or more ships in the convoy suddenly being hit. thats what youd see if you were actually there. the escorts would be diverted to the relevent area and go thru an attack sequence. this is what would happen, and also allows sudden holes to present in the escort screen. also, there mustve been numerous examples of escorts simply depthcharging empty water because they were spooked, how cool would it be to track an unseen contact by that method!?
as the uboat driver, theres in RL nothing to see in a wolfpack, just radio traffic and its random effects; so simply randomly generate it accordingly?
-if you really want to see another submarine, include them presented as a skimmer like any other ship. if multiple classes are modelled then only when you get close is it possible to ID it as friendly or not. how cool to torpedo an enemy sub!
-the real eye candy prize would be milkcows. actually formateing with another mid atlantic would be awesome. the easiest way would i guess be to have an animated sequence, where at certain stages in that sequence you could be attacked. the milkcow sub has certain predetermined options in response and you do what you want in your uboat. is that too hard?

i look fwd to your thoughts. cheers.

i dont quite follow - maybe a dumb question on my part but: what is a 'skimmer'?

[thruster]

hi Ju88,
a 'skimmer' is the term given by submariners (Aussie ones anyway; unless ive stuffed it up) to mean a surface vessel.
so, if you wanted subs in your program, just make it like any other ship in the game that crosses your path. i guess a sub running on the surface could suddenly disappear aswell; as if it submerged.

[JScones]

Originally Posted by thruster

a 'skimmer' is the term given by submariners (Aussie ones anyway; unless ive stuffed it up) to mean a surface vessel.

You didn't stuff it up - it's still an "affectionate" term used by Aussie Submariners (and presumably others). Check out http://www.upperiscope.com.au/ for some subtle Aussie "digging".

well here in the gulf coast we know the "skimmer" as this: (see picture on page 4)

http://www.nmfs.noaa.gov/pr/pdfs/str...trawl_gear.pdf

[JU_88]

Originally Posted by thruster

hi Ju88,
a 'skimmer' is the term given by submariners (Aussie ones anyway; unless ive stuffed it up) to mean a surface vessel.
so, if you wanted subs in your program, just make it like any other ship in the game that crosses your path. i guess a sub running on the surface could suddenly disappear aswell; as if it submerged.

I see, but why? It is not difficult to code a sub to dive / surface and lauch eels. It has been done before many times. plus we had that in SH3/4 Im hoping we can make an advance.

[Philipp_Thomsen]

I just hope I don't get hit by an acoustic active torpedo lauched by an AI Uboat, during convoy hunting.

But one thing that would be cool as hell is trying to escape a bunch of destroyer with another uboat near you.

Maybe even tap the hull to send messages in morse-code... :P

"Go left and I'll go right... deploy bold on my signal..."

[JScones]

Originally Posted by Philipp_Thomsen

I just hope I don't get hit by an acoustic active torpedo lauched by an AI Uboat, during convoy hunting.

But one thing that would be cool as hell is trying to escape a bunch of destroyer with another uboat near you.

Maybe even tap the hull to send messages in morse-code... :P

"Go left and I'll go right... deploy bold on my signal..."

You know, there was a time a few years ago when people would have laughed at this recognising it as an obviously humourous comment. Now, it seems hard to tell the difference between deliberate jokes and serious requests.

[Philipp_Thomsen]

Originally Posted by JScones

You know, there was a time a few years ago when people would have laughed at this recognising it as an obviously humourous comment. Now, it seems hard to tell the difference between deliberate jokes and serious requests.

Im old gang...

My mind still belong to those "few years ago" that you mentioned.

When I first met this community, people here were a lot more humorous.

Nowdays, huh... seems to be 10% of what it was before, everybody is serious and good jokes just go down the drain.

Maybe people are miserable after SH4 failure, and are waiting for a reason to be happy again.

Me? Im always happy!

[JU_88]

Originally Posted by Philipp_Thomsen

Im old gang...

My mind still belong to those "few years ago" that you mentioned.

When I first met this community, people here were a lot more humorous.

Nowdays, huh... seems to be 10% of what it was before, everybody is serious and good jokes just go down the drain.

Maybe people are miserable after SH4 failure, and are waiting for a reason to be happy again.

Me? Im always happy!

Hey PT, Maybe in March you can start the official 'homourous SHV screenshots' thread - If you don't I will

[Philipp_Thomsen]

Originally Posted by JU_88

Hey PT, Maybe in March you can start the official 'homourous SHV screenshots' thread - If you don't I will

LOL!

I don't know if Im starting the threat... but sure Im posting pics on it!

[Dave Kay]

Originally Posted by Gezoes

That happens to be exactly what I am expecting when thinking about wolfpacks ingame. Hope for more, but at least that.

HERE! HERE! That is EXACTLY what I am expecting TOO--- from Rudel-Taktic! Historically speaking, when BDU directed a sufficient number of boats to a reported convoy location, the shadowing boat(s) were then released to attack---- nothing more! No further communication was needed... unless perhaps... you might want to share one of those Becks beers under the Captains bunk with your fellow commanders/crews afterward... what a simple and effective concept!