The proposed health care bill thread (merged)

[Sea Demon]

Originally Posted by Max2147

You can keep your private insurer. Nobody's forcing you to switch to the government plan.

If I use a private plan, which I do for obvious reasons, I don't want my tax dollars paying for the public plan. I don't use it...I don't want to pay for it.

[mookiemookie]

Originally Posted by Sea Demon

If I use a private plan, which I do for obvious reasons, I don't want my tax dollars paying for the public plan. I don't use it...I don't want to pay for it.

How do you feel about the public school system, police, fire, water, hospitals, roads, etc, etc....?

[geetrue]

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

How do you feel about the public school system, police, fire, water, hospitals, roads, etc, etc....?

Good pointbut are they mandatory unless you need them?

[Sea Demon]

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

How do you feel about the public school system, police, fire, water, hospitals, roads, etc, etc....?

My kids go to private school currently. I don't like paying twice. Public education should be more of a local/state concern anyway. I've been advocating getting the feds out of the education system for years. None of the parents who put their kids in government schools pay a cent for my kids schooling. Other than perhaps some funding allocated for the UC system or the CSU system here, I don't feel compelled to pay for everyone's education. That's their responsibility....not mine. Fire, police and other public services are mutually beneficial services that serves society at large and are things we all need to fund as part of the taxpayer contract. At some point, I may need these services. Public health and education, I don't need them or use them at all.

If I opt out of government health, I absolutely don't want to pay for it. The people who would use a "public plan" aren't chipping in for my private health plan. They should pay for their own.

BTW, IF we're talking about introducing "competition" into the mix (As many a dem are talking the big game about)...exactly how would that work with a public "socialized" option where people who have their own health plans fund the health option that doesn't need to make a profit. And doesn't reciprocate in funding the private plans (although that's not desired either). Sounds lousy to me.

[SteamWake]

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

How do you feel about the public school system, police, fire, water, hospitals, roads, etc, etc....?

LOL one thing that grinds my gears every year is property taxes. Nearly 80% of them are slated for schools.

I dont have any school age kids and my nephews are now in colledge. :rotfl:

Oh well such is the price in living in a socialist country.

I look on the bright side in that we do alot of work for different schools around here so I get a small ... very small portion of it back.

But when I see what goes into classrooms these days its staggering. Computers, projection systems, media retreval, lab benches, sound rienforcement systems (for hearing impared) not to mention new mandates for lighting systems, occupancy sensors, building energy management systems, and on and on. Hundereds of thousands of dollars on alot of stuff and we havent even bought pencils and paper yet.

[Buddahaid]

There were people who's kids were grown paying for your kids and on and on. What burns me more is how much of what we already pay goes to those who purport frauds. Even the system as it is now is bilked like all insurance.

Buddahaid

[geetrue]

This is one plan they are looking at:

http://www.forbes.com/2009/07/07/health-care-insurance-democrat-opinions-columnists-public-option.html

One model for a possible compromise was described in Tuesday's New York Times that examined the workings of the Group Health Cooperative (GHC) in Washington state.

This innovative not-for-profit program, which was founded by trade unions and farmers to fill a void in the marketplace, already accomplished many of the goals Obama has set for his reform agenda.

Most notably, it has succeeded in refocusing the incentive structure for delivering care on quality rather than quantity by paying doctors a base salary with bonuses for high performance instead of paying them based on the number of procedures they order.

The co-op model is no panacea. The GHC has a mixed record on controlling costs. It has clearly fared better than the private plans in Washington against which it competes but it has been forced to raise premiums anyway. (According to the Times, premiums have increased an average of 12% annually since 2000.)

[Kapt Z]

Looks like a breeze compared to my arguements with Blue Cross.

[mookiemookie]

Originally Posted by SteamWake

Sure that sounds great but I wonder how is a private plan supposed to compete with an entity that does not have to make a profit?

In other words private health care will be driven out of buisness.

That is the best thing about it. Profits aren't placed above patient care. The object of a corporation is to maximize shareholder return. The only way this is done with a private health insurance company is to deny care, therefore placing the almighty dollar above someones right to live.

I say to hell with them. The best thing in the world would be if every single one of the evil and heartless bastards was run out of business.

[Sea Demon]

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

That is the best thing about it. Profits aren't placed above patient care. The object of a corporation is to maximize shareholder return. The only way this is done with a private health insurance company is to deny care, therefore placing the almighty dollar above someones right to live.

I say to hell with them. The best thing in the world would be if every single one of the evil and heartless bastards was run out of business.

This is nothing but Democrat talking point scare tactics at play. I have never been denied any kind of service, nor do I know anybody who has. The fact is, the private sector, including health care delivers a better quality product, without the beaurocratic mess that's inherent in anything run by a government agency or body. And through competition, costs usually are contained. Now if we could only control some of the top heavy governmental regulations and have some tort reform we could get somewhere.

All this program is going to do is milk the taxpaying base. And it will overburden a system that's already stretched more thin every year. You talk denial of service, I'm wondering how people including yourself will feel if health care will need to be rationed to contain and cap program cost overruns which are a guarantee.

Like I said, I want to opt out of paying for this mess. I won't use it. It's going to be big time expensive, and it's a certainty that quality of service will be crappy. Just like every other venture run by government. I will continue my private health care plan thank you very much. It will be millions like me that ensure private health care companies survive and are equipped to deliver a superior product to any government run option. You can have your crap health care mookie if that's what you want. But pay for it yourself. Your health is your responsibility..not mine.

On the same subject, here's a nice little read regarding why Obamacare will be a colossal failure:

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/op...-49458267.html

Here's a quote:

This is precisely what happened in Britain. The state provides most health care, via the National Health Service. Patients have almost no say over which physician, surgeon or hospital they can use, while professionals have to conform to government plans and targets.
After its birth in 1948, planners soon found that "free" health care multiplied demand. NHS founder Lord Beveridge predicted free health care would cut spending as health improved.
The opposite was true. Between 1949 and 1979, it tripled in real terms. The service now costs twice as much as it did 10 years ago, with productivity down 4.5 percent.
One way government tries to limit demand is to decree which new drugs can be prescribed. Many drugs, widely available in America and continental Europe, are denied to British patients.
State mismanagement has also created waiting lines for hospitals, on average causing 8.6 weeks of waiting. Once inside, budgetary cutbacks on cleaning and maintenance mean higher rates of an antibiotic-resistant variety of staph infection. This "superbug" has turned even routine surgery into a lottery of death.

No thanks mookie.

[Aramike]

This is nothing but Democrat talking point scare tactics at play.

I agree.

By the way, I am in favor of SOME form of nationalized health care - but not this form. Taxpayers and the average consumer already subsidizes BILLIONS in healthcare costs, so to pretend that we don't already have a form of a nationalized system is delusional. I believe that a cost-efficient, consumer-driven nationalized system is possible and should be pursued.

Obama's plan is flat-out stupid. Just watch - if you're 70+ years old you can forget that bypass surgery, not to mention any transplant. Large employers will opt to pay their fines and SAVE MONEY by going onto the government dole, while small ones will be hit with a substantial backdoor tax - which is precisely what our economy doesn't need right now.

[mookiemookie]

Originally Posted by Sea Demon

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/op...-49458267.html

Here's a quote:



No thanks mookie.

The British plan doesn't work, so health care reform doesn't work? That's like saying "I had a lemon of a Chrysler, so all cars suck."

Ask anyone in the world if they'd trade their plan for our system. I think you'd be hard pressed to find any takers.

[TDK1044]

It's really very simple. Under the proposed plan, if you work for a living, you pay for healthcare for those who don't.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by TDK1044

It's really very simple. Under the proposed plan, if you work for a living, you pay for healthcare for those who don't.

Give that man the kewpie doll! Bing bing bing we have a winner!

[mookiemookie]

Originally Posted by TDK1044

It's really very simple. Under the proposed plan, if you work for a living, you pay for healthcare for those who don't.

My girlfriend works damn hard for a living and doesn't have healthcare.