BBC - Nuclear subs 'collide in ocean'

[bookworm_020]

Originally Posted by goldorak

From the bbc article :

c'mon the ocean is big and all these guys drive the subs to same place ?
Man it must be more crowed down there than a traffic jam on the champs elysees on a weekend.

Time to set up a kebab stand and wine outlet in the area!

Could you imagine the skippers trying work out who is at fault, swapping insurance details?

[badhat17]

The hardest part about playing chicken is knowing when to flinch.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by bookworm_020

Time to set up a kebab stand and wine outlet in the area!

Could you imagine the skippers trying work out who is at fault, swapping insurance details?

Quite

[Skybird]

But wouldn't insurances demand them to call a traffic cop in a rubber boat to write down the details at the scene of the accident?

[goldorak]

Originally Posted by Skybird

But wouldn't insurances demand them to call a traffic cop in a rubber boat to write down the details at the scene of the accident?

I imagine this is what the french captain said after the collision :

[Digital_Trucker]

Originally Posted by Skybird

The hypothesis that two SSBNs collide with each other in the middle of the ocean at great depth and just by chance, includes a little bit too much of random chance indeed, for my taste.

But eventually they heared each other, and manouvered to avoid or to identify the other. Just that they ran into each other blind and deaf and not knowing that something was out there - this I have a hard time to believe.

Almost as hard to believe as two satellites in orbit around the Earth running into each other, eh?

[Oberon]

Had to fight a VERY strong urge to go Hulk and tear up the front page of the Independent today. Dammit, why does everyone start crapping their pants whenever a nuclear missile boat bumps into something. The way they were carrying on, you'd think it was K-219!

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...h-1623787.html



However, Skybird has a point, it could be they picked up something nearby, both went to investigate and collided. Still, at least both boats are alright.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Digital_Trucker

Almost as hard to believe as two satellites in orbit around the Earth running into each other, eh?

If you think nobody on earth noted that they were approaching each other, you probably are wrong. My theory would be that each side tried to figure what the other would do, and decisions and/or manouvers were ordered that unfortunately neutralised each other.

Earth controls tracks every object of at least 10 cm in diameter. Currently there are around 600.000 such objects in orbits around earth, most of them debris and dead satellites, some active satellities. with an unquantified numbers of even smaller objects, the likelihood for space collisions is not as small as the wide public prematurely may assume. If it were like that, there would be no need to keep all those many objects ander tight tracking control. And the ISS already has repeatedly manouvered to avoid collisions until today. Same probably is true for the majority of active satellites as well.

[goldorak]

Originally Posted by Oberon

Had to fight a VERY strong urge to go Hulk and tear up the front page of the Independent today. Dammit, why does everyone start crapping their pants whenever a nuclear missile boat bumps into something. The way they were carrying on, you'd think it was K-219!

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...h-1623787.html



However, Skybird has a point, it could be they picked up something nearby, both went to investigate and collided. Still, at least both boats are alright.

I read an article today on repubblica (italian newspaper), we don't even have a nuclear navy and reading the article you'd think that atomic destruction was upon us as a consequence of this little incident.
There is nothing to say, journalists just like to blow facts out of proportion.

[Digital_Trucker]

Originally Posted by Skybird

If you think nobody on earth noted that they were approaching each other, you probably are wrong. My theory would be that each side tried to figure what the other would do, and decisions and/or manouvers were ordered that unfortunately neutralised each other.

Earth controls tracks every object of at least 10 cm in diameter. Currently there are around 600.000 such objects in orbits around earth, most of them debris and dead satellites, some active satellities. with an unquantified numbers of even smaller objects, the likelihood for space collisions is not as small as the wide public prematurely may assume. If it were like that, there would be no need to keep all those many objects ander tight tracking control. And the ISS already has repeatedly manouvered to avoid collisions until today. Same probably is true for the majority of active satellites as well.

I'd be interested in knowing where you got that 600,000 figure from. Either Air Force Space Command doesn't know what's up there or there has been a HUGE increase in the number of objects of that size in space in the last year.

Maybe you were reading this article ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_debris
) and got 1cm confused with 10cm?


According to this article ( http://www.space-travel.com/reports/...Trash_999.html ) there are only 17,000 man-made space objects within the 60- to 20,000-mile band above the Earth.

From the article :

If it sounds like there is a huge layer of material orbiting around the Earth, requiring launching craft to dodge and scurry around them, this is not the case. "Only a small amount of debris exists where the shuttle orbits, and the likelihood of a 'significant collision' between a piece of debris and the shuttle is extremely remote," Mr. Wood said.
Even though the numbers cited here sound rather large, in the 60- to 20,000-mile band in which the SSN tracks, there are usually only about three or four objects in an area roughly equal in size to the airspace of the continental United States.

So, maybe the odds aren't so great that two things in a vast area might accidentally collide with each other. Seriously, though, you don't believe that human beings could be unobservant enough to allow these collisions to occur without prior knowledge of the other? Human beings make more errors than you give them credit for.

[Skybird]

I'm refering to a guy speaking for European Space Agency ESA who mentioned that 10 cm/600.000 numbers, and in a longer radio report on the issue. It's exactly the same numbers that were reported on at least two major TV news that I remember mentioning it in the past 2-3 days due to the space collision.

[Digital_Trucker]

Originally Posted by Skybird

I'm refering to a guy speaking for European Space Agency ESA who mentioned that 10 cm/600.000 numbers, and in a longer radio report on the issue. It's exactly the same numbers that were reported on at least two major TV news that I remember mentioning it in the past 2-3 days due to the space collision.

Well, it's estimated that there are 600,000 objects in space, but just not 600,000 10cm or larger objects. Guess the "journalists" read the numbers wrong, too. That would be a first, wouldn't it, TV and radio getting something wrong


As far as the logic behind the subs operating in the same areas, that would make sense (and make the odds of them accidentally running into each other a bit higher).

Edit for SB : Here's another article that gives you an idea how possible it was that the two satellites collided before anyone realized it might happen http://www.space.com/news/090217-sat...sh-future.html

[Rhodes]

Originally Posted by goldorak

I imagine this is what the french captain said after the collision :

And after, this:

[Terror_666]

What I think happened is both subs were given a overlapping patrol areas, both skippers looked for the best hidey-hole they could find, then one hears the other or they hear each other and since there mission is basically "Don't get found" they both go quite and vanish from sonar, they drift and then all of a sudden BANG they drift into each other.

As for objects in space; you have a large amount of objects traveling at great speed in all kinds of directions in orbit. You also have stuff ie meteors coming down regularly. well lets put it this way I am surprised it took so long for something to collide.

[Blood_splat]

Quote:
'Large ocean'

Lib Dem shadow defence spokesman


Nuclear engineer John Large told the BBC that navies often used the same "nesting grounds".




Each year all the nuclear submarines return to their nesting grounds to give birth.