[REL] Natural Sinking Mechanics

[Capt Jack Harkness]

Originally Posted by Wilcke

Hi Werner,

So far I have shot 50 mag influence torps with no failures.

Have shot about 25 torps set to impact, only 1 dud.

Well, as far as I remember, the magnetic detonators failed all the time up until at least 1943 (plenty of prematures and duds, as well as a few circle runners) and contact torps suffered plenty of prematures, too, because the mag detonators would set them off even when disabled. They also had plenty of trouble maintaining depth up until mid '43-44 (torps ran an average of 10-15 feet deeper than they were set).

Though, admittedly, it is more fun to shoot with weapons that work, the frustration of failed torpedoes is definitely a realism factor. I know Wahoo (among countless others) experienced a good handful of torpedo failures during her patrols, including one that inadvertently launched into a closed outer door!

[WernerSobe]

Originally Posted by Capt Jack Harkness

Well, as far as I remember, the magnetic detonators failed all the time up until at least 1943 (plenty of prematures and duds, as well as a few circle runners) and contact torps suffered plenty of prematures, too, because the mag detonators would set them off even when disabled. They also had plenty of trouble maintaining depth up until mid '43-44 (torps ran an average of 10-15 feet deeper than they were set).

Though, admittedly, it is more fun to shoot with weapons that work, the frustration of failed torpedoes is definitely a realism factor. I know Wahoo (among countless others) experienced a good handful of torpedo failures during her patrols, including one that inadvertently launched into a closed outer door!

well from the game design view magnetic exploders cannot fail. There is no dud chance for them. There is however torpedo depth keeping problem. The chance to have a deep runner is at 70% and it can vary between 0.5 and 3 meters (9feet). Thats quite a lot and i have exprienced that over half of my influence torpedoes passed underneath the target in test campaign. Once i fired all 6 tubes and all were deep runners.

but anyway if you think its still to strong we can increase the depth keeping failure range.

[Wilcke]

Originally Posted by WernerSobe

well from the game design view magnetic exploders cannot fail. There is no dud chance for them. There is however torpedo depth keeping problem. The chance to have a deep runner is at 70% and it can vary between 0.5 and 3 meters (9feet). Thats quite a lot and i have exprienced that over half of my influence torpedoes passed underneath the target in test campaign. Once i fired all 6 tubes and all were deep runners.

but anyway if you think its still to strong we can increase the depth keeping failure range.

Werner,

Don't change anything yet. I am testing in the single mission setup. Going to try a career next and see what happens.

[Capt Jack Harkness]

Yes, I agree. I still haven't tested the latest improvements myself and those specs seem more than adequate. The only thing I've noticed is I've had 2/2 magnetic detonator successes in 1944 (both against a gunboat that strangely refused to sink after 2 torps) and I've had plenty of contact successes (all set fairly shallow to be safe) but I can't remember the last time I've had a premature detonation.

[Dogster]

If a person wants prematures and duds, play the NSM 3.3 Hardcore Torpedo Mod. On my last patrol:

10 Prematures
7 Duds
7 Hits

Total tonnage for patrol:
1845 Tons

They want to relieve me at Pearl, they offered me a Training Command at Sub School. One more bad patrol and I'm relieved.

It is estimated that approx 70% of the Mk 14's fired were defective (prema's, duds...) until this was finally corrected in 9/43.

[castorp345]

Originally Posted by Dogster

play the NSM 3.3 Hardcore Torpedo Mod

i'm using 3.3's harcore torpedo mod in my current campaign on top of the nsm 4.0 package with no troubles (and thank goodness i'm tooling around in a sugar boat with mk.x's)...

'just remember to flush your rich saved games folder before installing!

cheers
hc

[DrBeast]

Hey Werner, I need your technical knowledge on something.
I'm attempting to make NSM4 ROW-compatible, and it looked like a pretty simple thing to do. Here's a breakdown of what I did with a side-by-side comparison of the two zones.cfg files with Winmerge:

1.) All effects from ROW copied over to NSM. If any NSM effects are present where there are no ROW effects, they stay.
2.) Cargo types in NSM replaced with ROW; I also added some extra cargo types present in ROW, and some Weapons compartments, floatability adapted to NSM with a ball-park estimation
3.) Crush depths copied over from ROW ONLY IF effects copied over as well.

Using this file, I stumbled upon a pretty nasty side-effect yesterday night when I was playing my campaign: I discovered that, if my sub is too close to a merchant and its keel gets blown off, my sub literally disintegrates! All of a sudden I start getting damage everywhere, and after a bit the game CTDs. I know it's right after the keel exploding, because I'm using some torpedoes that pack a pretty punch (all values in your torpedoes_US.zon file x2, essentially, just something I'm testing out), and though the fish hits at the bow or stern, it sets off a chain reaction that literally blows the enemy ship to smithereens...which is all fine and dandy, but if I'm closer than approximately 1000-1500 meters my sub bites the dust as well!

Do you have any idea what could be causing this? The ship's cargo, perhaps? Another member posted something similar a few posts up, and you attributed it to the enemy ship carrying ammunition. Anything that can be done about this?

ETA: I know I should have done more tests to pinpoint if it's something in NSM's zones file, my Frankenstein's monster, or my torpedo settings that cause this, but I quit the game at 6:20 in the morning, falling half asleep on the keyboard while sailing home, so further tests were plain impossible! BTW, whatever happened to your test mission? It would've been quite useful in this occasion.

[Doolittle81]

Originally Posted by DrBeast

Hey Werner, I need your technical knowledge on something.
I'm attempting to make NSM4 ROW-compatible, and it looked like a pretty simple thing to do. ....

I'm a bit curious:
In Post #540 in this thread, Werner said

Originally Posted by WernerSobe

...ROW special effects adds extra fires and smoke effects. NSM4 has its own effects. So it is not realy compatible but you will have the same effects anyway. so basicly you can replace the ROW special effects with nsm4.

This would seem to mean that one should enable all the ROW Mods excluding the ROW Special Effects MOD, then enable the NSM4 Mod, and everything will work just fine...the only thing will be that Werner's Special FX will be seen/experienced instead of ROW's, but all of the FX will be the same as if ROW Special FX had been enabled...

Whereas, the Dr Beast Mod of NSM will somehow mix and match Special FX to proved something better???

[DrBeast]

@Doolittle: For starters, there's more to ROW Effects than a modified zones.cfg file. What you could do is enable ROW Effects, then NSM. This will retain some ROW effects (generic modifications to explosions, smoke, etc), but you'll have the effects pertaining to the ships of the NSM mod. These are fewer than what ROW offers. My advice is, try it out as-is first (that is, enable ROW Effects first, then NSM4). What I'm trying to accomplish is combine ALL the effects of ROW with the sinking mechanism of NSM. Although I must say that if I get any satisfactory results, I'll ship the file over to billko for final evaluation and release; he offered to do it first, after all.

[Digital_Trucker]

I have been using NSM 4 with ROW, but only using the Materials.dat and particles.dat from the ROW special effects and have not had any problems. While this does not add in the "extra" special effects (additional explosions, catastrophic explosions, etc.) from ROW, it does provide the better smoke and fire from ROW. I, also, looked into trying to make ROW special effects NSM compatible, but another three of my remaining four brain cells couldn't handle the strain, so I quit looking at it for a while.

I either need to type or read faster:rotfl: . What I mentioned above would be the same result as DrBeast's approach.

[DrBeast]

Originally Posted by Digital_Trucker

I have been using NSM 4 with ROW, but only using the Materials.dat and particles.dat from the ROW special effects and have not had any problems. While this does not add in the "extra" special effects (additional explosions, catastrophic explosions, etc.) from ROW, it does provide the better smoke and fire from ROW. I, also, looked into trying to make ROW special effects NSM compatible, but another three of my remaining four brain cells couldn't handle the strain, so I quit looking at it for a while.

I either need to type or read faster:rotfl: . What I mentioned above would be the same result as DrBeast's approach.

You, my friend, are in dire need of a true Irish masterpiece...here, have a Guinness! Also, you described what I tried to describe in a much clearer way than me

[Galanti]

Would someone mind PM'ing me the NSM 3.3 Harcore Torpedo mod? The Filefront link in the official thread isn't working.

[Digital_Trucker]

Originally Posted by DrBeast

You, my friend, are in dire need of a true Irish masterpiece...here, have a Guinness! Also, you described what I tried to describe in a much clearer way than me

Actually, I left out a couple of items that I'm also using, those being the textures for the fire and oil spills and the sounds. I've got a very hybrid ROW setup that combines the files from the individual parts and I forgot ( ) that I had put the other parts mentioned into it. Thanks for the Guinness, by the way, between it and my regular medication, I should get a good nap before the "Game formerly known as the Super Bowl before the NFL made it illegal to say Super Bowl without paying them":rotfl:

Originally Posted by Galanti

Would someone mind PM'ing me the NSM 3.3 Harcore Torpedo mod? The Filefront link in the official thread isn't working.

Being the packrat that I am, I'm sure I've got it here in my downloads, I'll up it to filefront and put a link up in a sec (or two).

Edit : You can get the NSM3.3 hardcore torpedo mod here

[Galanti]

Great thanks!

[castorp345]

Originally Posted by Digital_Trucker

You can get the NSM3.3 hardcore torpedo mod here

out of curiosity: was there some reason why the link was pulled in the first place? were/are there any compatibility concerns with 4.0? i haven't experienced anything unusual yet, but then again i've pretty much just been mucking about in my sugar boat campaign...