Age of Sail COmbat Mod

[John W. Hamm]

What do you think is the possiblity of using the SH4 engine to make a age of sail game? I.E Man-o-War, Sloops, and Frigates...set somewhere in the Napoleonic period...

I know that Akella has a decent game out and it is fairly open ended, but it just doesn't have the range that SH4 has (with the exception of boarding) but I honestly think with Sh4's engine we could achieve some Empire Total war (or close to it) Naval battles.

I know this is a off the cuff...So I was just wondering what anyone's and everyone's thoughts might be?

Especially since .... Total War has straight out said "Quite simply, the traditional fanbase is not as important as it once was."

And Ubi has decided more or less the same thing about us and made it pretty clear.

Please do not pick apart comments on their treatment of us you can do that here http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=160799

But please give your thoughts here on an Age of Sail Combat Mod.

After all the entire world has been modeled here no other Combat sail game has that.

[Kapitanleutnant]

I know that SH3 at least tracks wind speed and direction. It's not much use in that game, but could be very useful for simulating a sailing model. An Age of Sail game could be really incredible, especially if your captain could progress from small sloops and 28-gun frigates, right up to huge 100-gun first rate ships like HMS Victory.

But would it even need to be a combat game primarily? I recently purchased the Paradox game East India Company, in which you operate trading ships. A sim game in which you captain a single trading vessel, running to Africa or India and back, trying to make a profit and dodge pirates, privateers and blockades, could be very compelling.

Sadly I don't have the historical or technical knowledge to make anything of the kind, but I can dream.

[John W. Hamm]

Originally Posted by Kapitanleutnant

I know that SH3 at least tracks wind speed and direction. It's not much use in that game, but could be very useful for simulating a sailing model. An Age of Sail game could be really incredible, especially if your captain could progress from small sloops and 28-gun frigates, right up to huge 100-gun first rate ships like HMS Victory.

But would it even need to be a combat game primarily? I recently purchased the Paradox game East India Company, in which you operate trading ships. A sim game in which you captain a single trading vessel, running to Africa or India and back, trying to make a profit and dodge pirates, privateers and blockades, could be very compelling.

Sadly I don't have the historical or technical knowledge to make anything of the kind, but I can dream.

Yes the earning of rank and ships was exactly what i had in mind, Though I don't think you would SH4 (as far as making this a mod) would have the ability to add in trade per say so combat I feel would have to be its main function. Upgrading to new ships and new cannon training up crew, and of course We could implement era correct uniforms and since I have a real good understanding of RUIM we could manipulate the uniforms to reflect the rank of each crew member...even as they progress in rank.

[tater]

I'd love a GOOD age of sail game, but It'd need to have a decent sailing model for it to be worth anything at all.

[Sledgehammer427]

But would it even need to be a combat game primarily? I recently purchased the Paradox game East India Company, in which you operate trading ships. A sim game in which you captain a single trading vessel, running to Africa or India and back, trying to make a profit and dodge pirates, privateers and blockades, could be very compelling.

Supply missions can cover that. enemy ships can be re-flagged and can cover a wide range of things, you could be a privateer yourself you know

You don't really need a sailing model, if you think about it. just make a totally silent engine, with no visible propeller model. and instead of speed orders, make some sound edits, like a bell ringing and orders shouted to the men on the masts to unfurl the sails and whatnot. the silent engine will push your ship at whatever speed is appropriate. (like, 6 knots for the Victory) time compression=gold

[tater]

Originally Posted by Sledgehammer427

Supply missions can cover that. enemy ships can be re-flagged and can cover a wide range of things, you could be a privateer yourself you know

You don't really need a sailing model, if you think about it. just make a totally silent engine, with no visible propeller model. and instead of speed orders, make some sound edits, like a bell ringing and orders shouted to the men on the masts to unfurl the sails and whatnot. the silent engine will push your ship at whatever speed is appropriate. (like, 6 knots for the Victory) time compression=gold

You absolutely need a sailing model. You magically sail into the wind at 6 knots? No tacking, no wearing?

Yuck. Worse than useless.

I was SO interested in PotBS until it was clear they cared more about what the avatars' clothes were than sailing.

Shame, they have such pretty models.

[John W. Hamm]

Originally Posted by Sledgehammer427

Supply missions can cover that. enemy ships can be re-flagged and can cover a wide range of things, you could be a privateer yourself you know

You don't really need a sailing model, if you think about it. just make a totally silent engine, with no visible propeller model. and instead of speed orders, make some sound edits, like a bell ringing and orders shouted to the men on the masts to unfurl the sails and whatnot. the silent engine will push your ship at whatever speed is appropriate. (like, 6 knots for the Victory) time compression=gold

Hmm I agree supply missions would be a good one!

Originally Posted by tater

You absolutely need a sailing model. You magically sail into the wind at 6 knots? No tacking, no wearing?

Yuck. Worse than useless.

I was SO interested in PotBS until it was clear they cared more about what the avatars' clothes were than sailing.

Shame, they have such pretty models.

I had high hopes for PotBS and i agree with you on the mechanics, but I hated it for alot of other reasons too.

I still liked the uniforms and clothing though.

Isn't it possible that a sailing model could be worked into SHIV though? I agree it would need one. Though it could function with out one, but one of the points about sailing and the tactics that were used at the time for combat dealt directly with the wind.

[Kapitanleutnant]

Maybe you could kind of "half-ass" it. As I said the game tracks the speed and direction of the wind, right? So perhaps that could somehow be taken into account when ordering a speed?
So, you order 9 knots, the game then checks the wind direction and, if you're sailing into the wind, the ship automatically starts a beating animation.

The most difficult thing would probably be setting up all the animations for the rigging that would be necessary.

[John W. Hamm]

Originally Posted by Kapitanleutnant

Maybe you could kind of "half-ass" it. As I said the game tracks the speed and direction of the wind, right? So perhaps that could somehow be taken into account when ordering a speed?
So, you order 9 knots, the game then checks the wind direction and, if you're sailing into the wind, the ship automatically starts a beating animation.

The most difficult thing would probably be setting up all the animations for the rigging that would be necessary.

Agreed I thought about the animation last night, that would certainly be difficult, however given the complexity of the waives it should be possible and not to mention there are the jap and Chinese fishing boats in the game and if memory serves they have sails.

[Highbury]

I'd be all over an Age of Sail mod, I have read alot of history books on the period.... and 22.5 Patrick O'Brian ones too lol. I am completely unable to mod myself though.

[difool2]

Have to think you'd need the SDK to make this man. Yes a dedicated Age of Sail game with all roles modeled (piracy, ship of the line, merchant smuggling) and all relevant physics up to snuff would certainly get my attention.

[tater]

Originally Posted by Highbury

I'd be all over an Age of Sail mod, I have read alot of history books on the period.... and 22.5 Patrick O'Brian ones too lol. I am completely unable to mod myself though.

Hehe, me too. SH4 is not the tool, sadly. Without a proper sailing model it would be as sucky as the games out there now.

Importantly, the SH engine treats casualties very poorly, IMO. I tried to make the deck crew take proper damage from small arms fire to no avail. It's be sort of fixed as I recall, but it's tied to the compartment in a weird way. The engine really doesn't do what we'd need it to.

[John W. Hamm]

Originally Posted by tater

Hehe, me too. SH4 is not the tool, sadly. Without a proper sailing model it would be as sucky as the games out there now.

Importantly, the SH engine treats casualties very poorly, IMO. I tried to make the deck crew take proper damage from small arms fire to no avail. It's be sort of fixed as I recall, but it's tied to the compartment in a weird way. The engine really doesn't do what we'd need it to.

I fear you are right about needing the SDK for something like this....and of course after the SH3 fiscal we know that ain't happening...hmmm maybe Duci may chime in here and and give an opinion.

[tater]

I'd so love a good age of sail game.

[tater]

What about Empire Total War? Is it modable? Does it suck for naval? It certainly looks pretty.