Open source tool(s) for SH5

TheDarkWraith · 10-15-09, 07:27 PM

I've been reading that SH5 will be similar in file structure and all to SH3/4 which is good but also bad. Good because some things will readily stand out and be familiar in the hex code. Bad because until a new tool, or revised tool (tool being an application or applications), is made most will not be able to take advantage of whatever the designers decided to 'give' us. Some of us will be able to play around with the new stuff because we can 'read' the hex code and know how to manipulate it. But as a whole that doesn't do anybody any good except those people (unless they divulge their findings to others which rarely happens).
People have made applications to help them mod and understand SH3/4, I being one of them. I haven't made my applications public (only to a select few) because I was the sole designer in those applications. It's hard to 'let go' of your prized possessions when all the work was done by yourself. Plus to try and write a help file or to have to constantly explain why it does this or it does that was not something I was willing to deal with. I knew how my application worked because I wrote it (and if I forgot I just had to look at the code again). With open source, everyone knows how everything works.
Thus I am thinking about spear heading a new open source project for SH5. Most of you use S3D (I do not) and since I've read that it is no longer being developed the application will probably be limited in what one can achieve with the files in SH5 (I'm merely speculating here as noone will know until we see the files in SH5). Furthermore, because the application was based on company code, the source code can't be released for others to update/maintain (but since it's MIL code it IS able to be reversed engineered somewhat easily

). Herein lies the beauty in open source code.
I know there are others here who write code. Maybe your strength is C++, C#, J#, or maybe even Assembly (love it!!) or maybe you like to dabble and experiment. With Microsoft's (yes, the evil empire) .NET framework and use of MIL code, modules and .dlls can be written in any language (available to Visual Studio or can be compiled to MIL - inline Assembly is also supported in Visual Studio

). Maybe you can't write code but you're an expert in linear algebra (many uses in DirectX) or graphics design or have useful knowledge about the game files. There are uses for many different kinds of specialties in application development.
Since the 'files' will be made public, source code and all, they can be fully debugged and refined to perfection. With many eyes looking over them (files) features never thought of can be discovered. Maybe you have an idea for a feature but don't know how to implement it? Open source is your answer! Some people will take your idea and 'make' it just to see if they can do it (I'm that way).
Right now I'm looking to see if there's an interest in this. With community involvement I imagine a tool can be made that would even make the designers of the game take a look and notice.
This idea hit me as I was looking over my applications that I will most likely have to change to work with SH5. Instead of revamping them all I thought about making an entirely new one. Something better. It doesn't have to be just one application...maybe specialized tools or a set of RAD (Rapid Application Development) tools to test an idea or to try and understand something.

One might ask, "A bit early to start on an ambitious project like this don't you think? I mean the game hasn't even been released yet." I do not think so. Why? Many reasons:

Ideas and information start being exchanged
ground work can be laid (coding structure, variables, functions, use of indentation, etc.)
Specialty tools can be designed and implemented from information gained in 1 on existing files. Example: a file reader. Design a generic file reader that given a list of structures will parse the file. Have the list of structures be read from a file so that new structures can be added as they are discovered/learned. This would allow the addition of new nodes as they are discovered in SH5 (if there are any new ones).
people become 'up to speed' on the file structure and use of controllers through design of tools
a set of RAD tools or .dlls can be designed to make the design of new tools faster and easier
Individuals can use the .dlls to make their own applications to help them understand on their own. Example: using the file reader one could extract the 3D model data and render the object. Then an application could be developed to add/remove nodes easily (by using visual objects - one of my applications does this). Instead of coding new nodes you simply open up an object that has the object you want and drag it over to your object. Position and rotate where it needs to be and presto...it's done.

When a team assembles and information and ideas start flowing the impossible doesn't look so impossible anymore. Everything starts with an idea

10-15-09, 07:27 PM	#1
TheDarkWraith Black Magic Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 11,962 Downloads: 147 Uploads: 5	Open source tool(s) for SH5 I've been reading that SH5 will be similar in file structure and all to SH3/4 which is good but also bad. Good because some things will readily stand out and be familiar in the hex code. Bad because until a new tool, or revised tool (tool being an application or applications), is made most will not be able to take advantage of whatever the designers decided to 'give' us. Some of us will be able to play around with the new stuff because we can 'read' the hex code and know how to manipulate it. But as a whole that doesn't do anybody any good except those people (unless they divulge their findings to others which rarely happens). People have made applications to help them mod and understand SH3/4, I being one of them. I haven't made my applications public (only to a select few) because I was the sole designer in those applications. It's hard to 'let go' of your prized possessions when all the work was done by yourself. Plus to try and write a help file or to have to constantly explain why it does this or it does that was not something I was willing to deal with. I knew how my application worked because I wrote it (and if I forgot I just had to look at the code again). With open source, everyone knows how everything works. Thus I am thinking about spear heading a new open source project for SH5. Most of you use S3D (I do not) and since I've read that it is no longer being developed the application will probably be limited in what one can achieve with the files in SH5 (I'm merely speculating here as noone will know until we see the files in SH5). Furthermore, because the application was based on company code, the source code can't be released for others to update/maintain (but since it's MIL code it IS able to be reversed engineered somewhat easily ). Herein lies the beauty in open source code. I know there are others here who write code. Maybe your strength is C++, C#, J#, or maybe even Assembly (love it!!) or maybe you like to dabble and experiment. With Microsoft's (yes, the evil empire) .NET framework and use of MIL code, modules and .dlls can be written in any language (available to Visual Studio or can be compiled to MIL - inline Assembly is also supported in Visual Studio ). Maybe you can't write code but you're an expert in linear algebra (many uses in DirectX) or graphics design or have useful knowledge about the game files. There are uses for many different kinds of specialties in application development. Since the 'files' will be made public, source code and all, they can be fully debugged and refined to perfection. With many eyes looking over them (files) features never thought of can be discovered. Maybe you have an idea for a feature but don't know how to implement it? Open source is your answer! Some people will take your idea and 'make' it just to see if they can do it (I'm that way). Right now I'm looking to see if there's an interest in this. With community involvement I imagine a tool can be made that would even make the designers of the game take a look and notice. This idea hit me as I was looking over my applications that I will most likely have to change to work with SH5. Instead of revamping them all I thought about making an entirely new one. Something better. It doesn't have to be just one application...maybe specialized tools or a set of RAD (Rapid Application Development) tools to test an idea or to try and understand something. One might ask, "A bit early to start on an ambitious project like this don't you think? I mean the game hasn't even been released yet." I do not think so. Why? Many reasons: Ideas and information start being exchanged ground work can be laid (coding structure, variables, functions, use of indentation, etc.) Specialty tools can be designed and implemented from information gained in 1 on existing files. Example: a file reader. Design a generic file reader that given a list of structures will parse the file. Have the list of structures be read from a file so that new structures can be added as they are discovered/learned. This would allow the addition of new nodes as they are discovered in SH5 (if there are any new ones). people become 'up to speed' on the file structure and use of controllers through design of tools a set of RAD tools or .dlls can be designed to make the design of new tools faster and easier Individuals can use the .dlls to make their own applications to help them understand on their own. Example: using the file reader one could extract the 3D model data and render the object. Then an application could be developed to add/remove nodes easily (by using visual objects - one of my applications does this). Instead of coding new nodes you simply open up an object that has the object you want and drag it over to your object. Position and rotate where it needs to be and presto...it's done. When a team assembles and information and ideas start flowing the impossible doesn't look so impossible anymore. Everything starts with an idea Last edited by TheDarkWraith; 10-15-09 at 09:40 PM.