"The All Knowing" destroyer syndrome

kapitan_zur_see · 03-11-10, 07:21 PM

Just attacked a convoy and started to get hunted by two destroyer. they would ping relentlessly, as expected but man...!

No matter what I would do, they would always track me faultlessly downright to a precision my top of the line car GPS couldn't even reach! no matter what evasive maneuver I would try during a depthcharge run, the destroyer would follow my exact turn even double turns, being at silent running or full speed. Sure they would miss a lot of Depthcharges but...

!!! Inbetween those, no matter how hard I would try to change course, change depth, sticking to the bottom or sticking to near periscope depth to avoid asdic detection cone, running at silent or mid speed, they would always track me with the precision of a GPS.

Damn! even when they ran out of depthcharges, they wouldn't even abandonned but would relentlessly do circles around me for a whole day!!! eventually forcing me to surface where I got killed.

How do you guys do to evade from such all knowing über creatures?!?

Are there some techniques I somehow didn't figured out??

That AI is so messed up

On second hand, maybe it's that ducimus destroyer AI tweaking, I remember having the same syndrome with trigger maru overhauled...

jdkbph · 03-11-10, 07:26 PM

And others have reported that they can't find their a55 with both hands. Sounds like they've over-exaggerated the difference between a green crew and an elite crew again... as if such a distinction was common place.

JD

vonce1 · 03-11-10, 07:27 PM

funny thing is - some people complain about the exact opposite - that destroyers can be nearly ignored.

I'm on my 6th patrol now and raked some 150k tons (over the entire career) so far which I feel is nearly realistic. Had a few skirmishes with destroyers here and there, usually I can avoid being sunk but they give me some chase. To me, the AI is balanced.

my 5 cents

Echo76 · 03-11-10, 07:30 PM

It's the AI mod.

Frederf · 03-11-10, 07:34 PM

I've found that being on the surface means they are really good at keeping track of you. Go to 40m and silent running and they go completely blind... which is weird because the sonar conditions are better at 40m than at the surface. It's like a "get out of jail free" card.

thruster · 03-11-10, 07:54 PM

ok, i could be showing ignorance here, but i thought dedicated hunter-killer groups didnt show up until 1944, not even in the game window. escorts should be tied to the convoy.

if they are known to spend all day over a spot of water, then an AI attack could leave the convoy subsequently unguarded?

i always found this annoying in SH3 too. ok, theyve been hit on the southern side, but to know exactly where the torpedoes have tracked from, the exact distance from the convoy without even trying a search pattern was abit much.

karamazovnew · 03-11-10, 08:16 PM

I sunk a tanker 30 km away from a port. Since he refused to sink (even though all of his decks were underwater) I got pissed and surfaced to gun him down. Soon 2 DD's came by. I sunk one and was amazed to see the other one immediately start to circle and drop depth charges. About 5 km away from me

I quietly sneaked by and intercepted another tanker. I surfaced and tried to catch up with him. No chance. So I took a few shots at him from 4 km and took out his deck and set him up in flames. Moments later I hear gun shots wizzing by me. I went to PD fast. Now what do you think happened next? The intelligent DD went right past me and gunned the tanker

.

Ducimus · 03-11-10, 08:19 PM

I plead the 5th.

skwasjer · 03-11-10, 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thruster

i always found this annoying in SH3 too. ok, theyve been hit on the southern side, but to know exactly where the torpedoes have tracked from, the exact distance from the convoy without even trying a search pattern was abit much.

I sank a carrier by sneaking inside the protective ring of 10 DD's (I was like wtf?), this was a night attack, submerged, engines off. I fired a salvo of 4 from about 600m away. When they hit, the 5 DD's that were behind me starting using their searchlights to the outside of the ring and searched there, and obviously they never found me as I was on the inside (I snuck out of the gap they left on the rear). So apparantly they 'can' be confused about where the exact location of the attack came from...

boshunter · 03-11-10, 11:37 PM

I had a tough time in my 6th patrol, I went into port to look for the carriers, manage to sink the one in port but alerted 2 dd, so I try to sneak out at 1kt, just when i thought i am in the clear, 10 dd and another carrier arrive in port and blocked my way out

the 2 dds alerted the 10 escorts around the carrier and they all start to ping me....

I am up to 85% co2 and 20% batteries and all 12 of those dds still wont give up...

they have been dropping depth charges non stop but my hull is still at 80% and only minor flooding

but I don't think I can shake them....
maybe I have to redo this run again....

utops · 03-12-10, 04:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skwasjer

I sank a carrier by sneaking inside the protective ring of 10 DD's (I was like wtf?), this was a night attack, submerged, engines off. I fired a salvo of 4 from about 600m away. When they hit, the 5 DD's that were behind me starting using their searchlights to the outside of the ring and searched there, and obviously they never found me as I was on the inside (I snuck out of the gap they left on the rear). So apparantly they 'can' be confused about where the exact location of the attack came from...

In game loading screen, there is a tip related to such a behaviour, it say that, the best method of atacking well protected convoys is to get inside because escorts will be always looking for you outside.

AndrejD · 03-12-10, 03:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kapitan_zur_see

Just attacked a convoy and started to get hunted by two destroyer. they would ping relentlessly, as expected but man...!

No matter what I would do, they would always track me faultlessly downright to a precision my top of the line car GPS couldn't even reach! no matter what evasive maneuver I would try during a depthcharge run, the destroyer would follow my exact turn even double turns, being at silent running or full speed. Sure they would miss a lot of Depthcharges but...

!!! Inbetween those, no matter how hard I would try to change course, change depth, sticking to the bottom or sticking to near periscope depth to avoid asdic detection cone, running at silent or mid speed, they would always track me with the precision of a GPS.

Damn! even when they ran out of depthcharges, they wouldn't even abandonned but would relentlessly do circles around me for a whole day!!! eventually forcing me to surface where I got killed.

How do you guys do to evade from such all knowing über creatures?!?

Are there some techniques I somehow didn't figured out??

That AI is so messed up

On second hand, maybe it's that ducimus destroyer AI tweaking, I remember having the same syndrome with trigger maru overhauled...

U use somekind of a mod ?
I can`t get the DD`s to attack me...

My Patrol report:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=164347

sergei · 03-12-10, 03:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndrejD

U use somekind of a mod ?
I can`t get the DD`s to attack me...

Try this
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=163905
With it I think you'll find the problem is getting away from the destroyers!

Furia · 03-12-10, 05:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kapitan_zur_see

Just attacked a convoy and started to get hunted by two destroyer. they would ping relentlessly, as expected but man...!

No matter what I would do, they would always track me faultlessly downright to a precision my top of the line car GPS couldn't even reach! no matter what evasive maneuver I would try during a depthcharge run, the destroyer would follow my exact turn even double turns, being at silent running or full speed. Sure they would miss a lot of Depthcharges but...

!!! Inbetween those, no matter how hard I would try to change course, change depth, sticking to the bottom or sticking to near periscope depth to avoid asdic detection cone, running at silent or mid speed, they would always track me with the precision of a GPS.

Damn! even when they ran out of depthcharges, they wouldn't even abandonned but would relentlessly do circles around me for a whole day!!! eventually forcing me to surface where I got killed.

How do you guys do to evade from such all knowing über creatures?!?

Are there some techniques I somehow didn't figured out??

That AI is so messed up

On second hand, maybe it's that ducimus destroyer AI tweaking, I remember having the same syndrome with trigger maru overhauled...

Hehe nothing different than you would experience if we would have a human controlled DD like in the old times of SH II and DC

If the acoustic conditions are good, you can not simply escape 2 alerted DD once they locate you.

Maybe you guys are getting too used to facing AI DD with their poor perfomance and lack of consistence in tactics. Either they are dumb or they are Terminators.

I can't wait to have a human controlled DD for SHV

And remember Surface Escorts rule the seas

Kretschmer the IV · 03-12-10, 06:49 AM

I experienced a nice addition to the AI (stock).

Beeing hunted for almost 24 hours, 2 of 3 destroyers went to the convoy. I was going to periscope depth, and took a look.. There he was, the 3rd destroyer about 300m of my position with shutted down engine lol.

He saw my periscope, attacked. The 2 destroyers who left, came back after 4 hours ingame. Trying to escape on 1 knots, i activated tc. did not saw that the depth is increasing (bug

) and i went too far.. BTW any way to fix this "sub is not holding ordered depth when passing over 120m?"

03-11-10, 07:21 PM	#1
kapitan_zur_see Commodore Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: France Posts: 614 Downloads: 60 Uploads: 0	"The All Knowing" destroyer syndrome Just attacked a convoy and started to get hunted by two destroyer. they would ping relentlessly, as expected but man...! No matter what I would do, they would always track me faultlessly downright to a precision my top of the line car GPS couldn't even reach! no matter what evasive maneuver I would try during a depthcharge run, the destroyer would follow my exact turn even double turns, being at silent running or full speed. Sure they would miss a lot of Depthcharges but... !!! Inbetween those, no matter how hard I would try to change course, change depth, sticking to the bottom or sticking to near periscope depth to avoid asdic detection cone, running at silent or mid speed, they would always track me with the precision of a GPS. Damn! even when they ran out of depthcharges, they wouldn't even abandonned but would relentlessly do circles around me for a whole day!!! eventually forcing me to surface where I got killed. How do you guys do to evade from such all knowing über creatures?!? Are there some techniques I somehow didn't figured out?? That AI is so messed up On second hand, maybe it's that ducimus destroyer AI tweaking, I remember having the same syndrome with trigger maru overhauled... __________________

03-11-10, 07:27 PM	#3
vonce1 A-ganger Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: So. California Posts: 79 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 0	funny thing is - some people complain about the exact opposite - that destroyers can be nearly ignored. I'm on my 6th patrol now and raked some 150k tons (over the entire career) so far which I feel is nearly realistic. Had a few skirmishes with destroyers here and there, usually I can avoid being sunk but they give me some chase. To me, the AI is balanced. my 5 cents __________________

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03-11-10, 07:26 PM	#2
jdkbph Captain Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 508 Downloads: 104 Uploads: 0	And others have reported that they can't find their a55 with both hands. Sounds like they've over-exaggerated the difference between a green crew and an elite crew again... as if such a distinction was common place. JD

03-11-10, 07:30 PM	#4
Echo76 Loader Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 83 Downloads: 68 Uploads: 0	It's the AI mod.

03-11-10, 07:34 PM	#5
Frederf Seasoned Skipper Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 665 Downloads: 79 Uploads: 1	I've found that being on the surface means they are really good at keeping track of you. Go to 40m and silent running and they go completely blind... which is weird because the sonar conditions are better at 40m than at the surface. It's like a "get out of jail free" card.

03-11-10, 07:54 PM	#6
thruster Electrician's Mate Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 139 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	ok, i could be showing ignorance here, but i thought dedicated hunter-killer groups didnt show up until 1944, not even in the game window. escorts should be tied to the convoy. if they are known to spend all day over a spot of water, then an AI attack could leave the convoy subsequently unguarded? i always found this annoying in SH3 too. ok, theyve been hit on the southern side, but to know exactly where the torpedoes have tracked from, the exact distance from the convoy without even trying a search pattern was abit much.

03-11-10, 08:16 PM	#7
karamazovnew The Old Man Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Bucharest, Romania Posts: 1,403 Downloads: 151 Uploads: 0	I sunk a tanker 30 km away from a port. Since he refused to sink (even though all of his decks were underwater) I got pissed and surfaced to gun him down. Soon 2 DD's came by. I sunk one and was amazed to see the other one immediately start to circle and drop depth charges. About 5 km away from me I quietly sneaked by and intercepted another tanker. I surfaced and tried to catch up with him. No chance. So I took a few shots at him from 4 km and took out his deck and set him up in flames. Moments later I hear gun shots wizzing by me. I went to PD fast. Now what do you think happened next? The intelligent DD went right past me and gunned the tanker .

03-11-10, 08:19 PM	#8
Ducimus Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,987 Downloads: 67 Uploads: 2	I plead the 5th.

03-11-10, 11:37 PM	#10
boshunter Swabbie Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 10 Downloads: 26 Uploads: 0	I had a tough time in my 6th patrol, I went into port to look for the carriers, manage to sink the one in port but alerted 2 dd, so I try to sneak out at 1kt, just when i thought i am in the clear, 10 dd and another carrier arrive in port and blocked my way out the 2 dds alerted the 10 escorts around the carrier and they all start to ping me.... I am up to 85% co2 and 20% batteries and all 12 of those dds still wont give up... they have been dropping depth charges non stop but my hull is still at 80% and only minor flooding but I don't think I can shake them.... maybe I have to redo this run again....

03-12-10, 06:49 AM	#15
Kretschmer the IV Navy Dude Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Croatia Posts: 173 Downloads: 73 Uploads: 0	I experienced a nice addition to the AI (stock). Beeing hunted for almost 24 hours, 2 of 3 destroyers went to the convoy. I was going to periscope depth, and took a look.. There he was, the 3rd destroyer about 300m of my position with shutted down engine lol. He saw my periscope, attacked. The 2 destroyers who left, came back after 4 hours ingame. Trying to escape on 1 knots, i activated tc. did not saw that the depth is increasing (bug ) and i went too far.. BTW any way to fix this "sub is not holding ordered depth when passing over 120m?"