GER politics thread [Archive] - Page 2 - SUBSIM Radio Room Forums

Skybird

05-28-17, 05:16 AM

There can be little doubt that the oberwhelming guilt once the horrible crimes in the KZs became completel yuncovered, as well as the reeducation program - which ws aiming at and designed to prevent that a strong National feeling should ever grow again in the German subjects, have plenty to do with why Germans are today these hollow corpusses that they are, when it comes to a sense for own, hitorically grown identity. The rest was taken care of by Soviet proaganda and its infuence of the German students, the academic intelligenzia especially in the education branch, and then in the peace movement. Thinking left is en vogue on Germany, so was, and is again, anti-Americanism.

Bush and Trump however make it very easy to become anti-American, however, so indeed this time its not just the Germans' but also the Americans' fault.

That nationalistic and patriotic feelings do not get differenciated in Germany, also what I usually call a historically grown sense of own identity gets rejected, does not help to de-confuse the mess. What I mean by that? To have a feeling of the fundaments in philosophy, culture, arts, uniqueness that one'S own way of life today is inevitably basing on and without which this way of life today could not exist and would not have seen the arts blossoming, the rights prospering and the liberty culminating. From the influence of Greek philosophy (rejected in the EU constituion and thus deleted), over the influence of the Christian thinking (rejected in the EU constitution and thus deleted) to the prosperity and blossoming of scinece, arts, klowledge in general during the pre-natioanal time of Germany and even in the early stage of the latter - it all gets rejected today over here, gets forgotten, gets aggressively denied and wiped out. The EU and German mindset work mutually reinforcing here, unfortunately. No other country goes as far as Germany in writing into its constitution that it aims for self-dissolving in favour of a higher, supoernatioanl order.

Germans would only be satisfied if they would seize to exist as a German something. Do not be mistaken when seeing fans waving flags at football matches and stuff like that, or read about Nazi paroles in the Bundeswehr. That is just on the surface. Rituals whose deeper meaning - and once satisfying - content are not really understood, or felt. A hollow rite.

I do not want natioanlism, but I can understand how a patriot ticks and feels and accept it. I base on and root in the intellectual heritage that the history and tradition of the occident has kindly provided to me. There were ups and there were down, yes. But all in all it has pushed the West further into a constructive, progressive, liberal direction than any other people or cultures in the world has ever reached. And every techcnolgical, scientific, civilizational ,industrial progress by the others - was made on the grounds of our ancestory uncoutnable acchievements. From dentist injections to satellite TV, from code Napoleon to the declaration of human rights, from the CDC in Atlanta to the Hubble telescope - none of that would exist without the history of the West having formed it. Surely there also is smoke and ashes left and right of the way, and chapters written in blood and with disasters. Still, beside the dark spots nevertheless there are the bright spots. German hsotiry dates back almost one thosuand years, it is so much more than just WW2, and the West'S historic cycles pans over almost three thousand years, there were injustices and dramas, and there were revolutonary progresses made.

Buit today, many people, and ever more young people, want to reject just all of that, without any discrimination.

You cannot form a self-identity without defining what is NOT part of your identity: what you do NOT want to be like. A state of lacking idnetity btw is a deeply worrying state of mind, a psychologically pathologic crisis. It make speopel suffer, and turns them into a danger to themselves, sometimes to others.

You must discriminate between yourself, and the others, own culture and other culture. You must discmrinate what you claim to be, and what you do nto want to be. A completely inflationary identity claiming to be just everybdoy and everythign is as uch a disaster as is the complete lack of a self-identity.

We are not all the same.We are not all equal in our conditions of birth, and genetic sets. We are different.

Skybird

06-03-17, 07:46 AM

A TV documentary on the inherent and growing anti-semitism in Western societies and Islam, that was paid for by ARTE and WDR, is being boycotted by state TV.

In German.

http://www.faz.net/aktuell/feuilleton/medien/arte-und-wdr-zeigen-eine-dokumentation-ueber-antisemitismus-nicht-15044790.html

Perfectly revealing the underhanded, cheating Zeitgeist that is blindly pro Islam and anti Jews, and hides antisemitism under new labels to dodge criticism.

No further comment by me needed. The story speaks for itself.

ValoWay

06-03-17, 11:16 AM

Skybird

06-03-17, 12:24 PM

Yes. Destroying any sense of national identity, or fundament for it, so that Germany never could become a strong central state again. This was a design goal demanded by the Americans for the surrogate constitution of the post-war West German federal republic: to have a strong federal structure so that the states could always play foul on the national government, and so the two sides prevent each other to form a strong nationality - and nationalism - again: chancelory and minister presidents are set up against each other, not together with each other. At least that was the idea. Not even many Germans know why the constitution and the federal structure of the German state is what it is.

But its true, the basic structure was enforced by America, with the goal to keep the new German state weak, both in administration, and psyche.

I wonder if later this was regretted on Americna side.

However, there have been serious clashes between German and American administrations in the past before, Merkle and Trump are not a first, not at all.

Lyndon B. Johnson demanded Ludwig Erhard to send German combat troops to Vietnam, which made the Germans furious opponents of the American position in Vietnam and really flipped their switches to the anti-US position, Johnson found the safest way to bring the Germans up against him, it ended with a grumbling "compromise" of a single German hospital ship getting sent instead of troops.

Nixon never trusted Brand with his Eastern diplomacy, both men had utmost antipathy for each other.

With Carter and Schmidt they say it was even worse, Carter hated Schmidt's arrogance, and Schmidt, a fighting war veteran, disliked Carter's weakness and lack of determination - first the German resisted the American plan to build the neutron bomb, and when Schmidt finally gave up diplomatic resistence to it, Carter changed his mind and made Schmidt facing an utmost unpleasant situation with his opposition in Germany, later Schmidt had to fight against the Americans again to convince them to station Pershing-2s and Cruise Missiles in Germany in reply to the Sovjet stationing of SS-20s: while the German population hated the idea and strictly opposed it, Schmidt took it very queer that he had to fight against his own people and the Americans as well, although this time the American govenment complied. - I was at highschool at that time, so it was the first of these pplitical events that I actually witnessed first hand and have memories of - and we live din West-Berlin at that time, where anti-American dmeonstraitons were especially intense and lead to many clashes between students and police in the streets. It was the time when the Greens and the so-called Alternative Liste - militant squatters, communists and anarchists - formed up, especially in Berlin. Both groups later became one party.

And then there was Bush junior and Schroeder, Bush said the German promised him that Germany would be with him in Iraq if only the war would be clean, short and determined, while Schroeder always denied that claim by Bush and indeed already on his return from his visit in Germany and since then for always strictly opposed the Iraq war.

Catfish

06-03-17, 02:27 PM

I vaguely remember that the americans believed after WW2 that 'prussia' was the root of all evil in germany. I think they were trying to take steps to delete prussia from german history but never actually went through with it.

I'm confident you guys know what I believe to have heard there?

True after WW1 anyway, they thought of Prussia as "the evil". Which is, b.t.w., complete bovine scatology. "Prussia" had not been one state though, but a patchwork of different smaller patches of land, alot of them belonging to polish kings of the time. Prussia then had an army alright, but if you compare the armies of the time Prussia's was much more "liberal" and enligthened, than others of the time. Prussia's kings (Friedrich1 and 2 or 'Frederick') of the time were also much more modern than kings of other countries.

Friedrich Wilhelm I. certainly forged a new army type, and gave lots of money for that. But despite the arms build-up he only fought one war, together with Denmark and Saxony, against Karl XII from Sweden. Tolerance and freedom of religion, the first health care, freedom of taxes, money, free places and free material for to build houses to help immigrants getting a new home, numerous other examples.

Maybe the US were just afraid that could plant new ideas in the heads of their people.

Good article in german: http://www.planet-wissen.de/geschichte/deutsche_geschichte/geschichte_preussens/

skidman

06-03-17, 03:23 PM

Perfectly revealing the underhanded, cheating Zeitgeist that is blindly pro Islam and anti Jews, and hides antisemitism under new labels to dodge criticism.

You must be living in a different country. Anti islam and anti muslim attitude have become mainstream in Germany in the last few years while antisemitism is restricted to the right and left wing extremists. Take this for reference: In my hometown a new synagogue and a new mosque were to be built. Absolutely no protest against the synagogue, but lots of disgusting racist action at the construction site of the mosque.

To suggest, antisemitism is not adequately addressed in German state-run media is one of your typical oversimplifications.

No further comment by me needed.

A promise? Too good to be true.

Skybird

06-15-17, 04:02 AM

Yesterday I read a brief note in a paper that the first german bank has started to charge its customers a penalty interest if the customer do not use their creditline. The charge is then on the maximum of the creditline.

Again: you have to pay interest if you do not take the credit.

:doh:

You read that right. No joke.

It may be just a regional small bank. But still, if you consider this as well as the total rape of reason and logic behind misleadingly so-called "negative interests" : Does it need any more hints how totally insane and rotten and broken the money system has become? What money? There is no oney worth the name. What we use and wrongly think of as money, is notes of debts without material securities.

Stealing and plundering, nothing else it is. Stealing and plundering. And the politicians help in that as best as they can, and become incredibly creative in hiding this behind meaningless newly invented terms and phrases. Criminal scum. Its all a mafia syndicate.

In the same essay I read that the global total debt is around 365% of the total global GDP. - If it does not get further explained, "debt" usually mean explicit debts only. But there are also the inherent debts, which usually are multiple factors higher: pensions to be paid in the future for staff hired today, interests for credits to be taken in the future in order to pay the interests of the debts there already are, and so forth. So, I assume, and that would be more in line with what I have learned over the years in the past, the actual debts on the globe probably are much higher than just 365% of the global GDP.

You can bet your life on it: no politician in the world plans to seriously tackle this. It is completely out of control. FUBAR.

Nippelspanner

06-15-17, 06:25 AM

Absolutely no protest against the synagogue, but lots of disgusting racist action at the construction site of the mosque.

You're saying this as if this behavior is unjustified.
Remind me.
How many synagogues have to be searched by police units due to religious motivated terror attacks committed by jews?
How many rabbis do they arrest because they preach about killing unbelievers?
How many synagogues can be connected to being safe houses or recruitment centers for terrorists?

And how often do the examples above apply to mosques?

So again: Why is the behavior you've mentioned unreasonable or "disgusting"?
I sure do not want some hate-center next to me that preaches anti-western propaganda or worse.

Give me a hundred synagogues any day, please!

ikalugin

06-15-17, 06:54 AM

How many synagogues have to be searched by police units due to religious motivated terror attacks committed by jews?To be fair while this may not have been a threat in recent history, brits did have issues pre creation of the state of Israel.

And in the end - muslims would continue practicing their religion even if you don't allow mosque constrution.

My two cents - the better way to lower the rate of extremism may be to not ban mosque construction per say (because that would push muslims to the prayer houses that you have even less control over) but to regulate how they are run, say via a moderate state backed councill which would burn the radicals at the stake so to speak.

Nippelspanner

06-15-17, 07:18 AM

To be fair while this may not have been a threat in recent history, brits did have issues pre creation of the state of Israel.

And in the end - muslims would continue practicing their religion even if you don't allow mosque constrution.

My two cents - the better way to lower the rate of extremism may be to not ban mosque construction per say (because that would push muslims to the prayer houses that you have even less control over) but to regulate how they are run, say via a moderate state backed councill which would burn the radicals at the stake so to speak.
I agree and this is, well, they "act" as if they'd try to do that, but in the end our politicians don't dare to question the mantra that "Islam means peace".
Yesterday, in German TV, some show started with the question (the question!) if "Islam has a problem with violence", AFTER saying "terror attacks nearly every week".

That is the problem. People being cowards.

Of course, if it would be up to me, there would be no Mosques anymore, no Minaret, no Muezzin and surely no Muslims until this ideology goes through a severe reform (which can and will never happen, we all know this).

Until then, I do not see why I would be expected to "tolerate" Islam, though.
If so, I ask why we cannot tolerate Nazism?
Oh right, radical ideology and all that... :hmmm:

ikalugin

06-15-17, 08:07 AM

Of course, if it would be up to me, there would be no Mosques anymore, no Minaret, no Muezzin and surely no Muslims until this ideology goes through a severe reform (which can and will never happen, we all know this).
Sounds very anti liberal.

Until then, I do not see why I would be expected to "tolerate" Islam, though.
If so, I ask why we cannot tolerate Nazism?
Oh right, radical ideology and all that...
Freedom of throught and conscience.

Nippelspanner

06-15-17, 08:11 AM

Sounds very anti liberal.
Am I "a liberal"?
Also, to me it sounds sane and just. And reasonable considering the consequences of not getting rid of it. Just wait... it's going to happen.

Freedom of throught and conscience.
Tell me, what is freedom of thought and conscience worth in, let's say...
Iran?
Saudi Arabia?
Nearly every Muslim country?

You cannot have any of these when you "tolerate" an ideology that seeks the destruction of these values.

ikalugin

06-15-17, 08:20 AM

Tell me, what is freedom of thought and conscience worth in, let's say...
Iran?
Saudi Arabia?
Nearly every Muslim country?And this doesnt matter.

You cannot have any of these when you "tolerate" an ideology that seeks the destruction of these values. You can and you should, as your freedom of thought and consience depends on your acceptance of those rights of others.

Which means that you cannot prosecute people on the basis of what their ideology is or what they think, only if they break the law through action (or inaction when specified) for example by violating the right of other's to life via murder. Because if you do, those values and rights you have are destroyed by yourself.

Nippelspanner

06-15-17, 08:24 AM

And this doesnt matter.
Don't be cheap.
Yes it matters.
Otherwise explain why it does not.

You can and you should, as your freedom of thought and consience depend on your acceptance of those rights of others.

Which means that you cannot prosecute people on the basis of what their ideology is or what they think, only if they break the law through action (or inaction when specified) for example by violating the right of other's to life via murder.
"Rights"?
Islam has nothing to do with rights, it has everything to do with taking away rights, especially those of Women, gay people or whoever doesn't fit their radical views.

You're basically saying I must not stand up against someone threatening me with a gun. It won't help us, our values or societies, if we tolerate what seeks to destroy us. This would be nonsensical, as we can see all over the world.

What more do you need?

ikalugin

06-15-17, 08:38 AM

It won't help us, our values or societies, if we tolerate what seeks to destroy us.If you do not you are destoyed. However to explain my point of view in German context.

To me it appears that the core of the problem (that Germany has) is not in that Islam is bad, but in that the people practicing Islam receive positive descrimination by the state (ie not prosecuting muslims equally and fairly for the crimes they have commited, ie illegal imigration), to avoid accusations of negative descimination and thus keep the state feeling good about it's morality.

Thus introducing negative descrimination specifically against the muslims would not solve the problem, because the problem is not the Islam but the fact that muslims get special treatment and thus undermine the rule of law and introducing the negative discrimination would do the same, as people would be prosecuted not for what they did but for what they are.

Hence in my opinion the solution would be to resume the rule of law and prosecute people for crimes they commit and not for ideology they are a part of. The list of such potential crimes can be lengthy, in this context apart from the obvious crimes against an individual (murder, rape etc) one has to add the crimes against the society at large and the state (illegal imigration, incitement of violence etc).

Nippelspanner

06-15-17, 08:40 AM

Well, since it is now clear, again, that Islam cannot be the problem, we have nothing to talk about any further.

ikalugin

06-15-17, 08:51 AM

Well, since it is now clear, again, that Islam cannot be the problem, we have nothing to talk about any further.
Correction, Islam cannot be the problem, what people do (ie commit crimes) can (and is) a problem.

Or that the people can (and do) do something (ie commit crimes) because the rule of law is broken by positive descrimination.

Morever while prosecuting people on the basis of their religion (or ideology) is wrong (because they have a right to freedom of thought and conscience), you can and should descriminate against groups (ie muslims) in your crime prevention/crime investigation work (ie for incitement of violence) based on the objective statistics (ie that muslims are more likely to incite violence than christians) while presuming innocence of an individual untill it is proven otherwise with due process in the court of law.

Catfish

06-15-17, 09:03 AM

How do you want to threaten or better prevent people from crimes with penalties early enough, when even death is not a threat for them? They kill themselves, and are not interested in anything happening after this.

Those who do the assassinations cannot be prosecuted before they kill others and committed the crime. So what to do?

What some propose is to take all others in hostage, giving out the message like we kill your family if you do something wrong. Somehow this cannot be the answer, and even then some of the radicalised people will still think it does not matter for their 'martyrdom'.

As Ikalugin said, we should not fall in the trap of acting like them. Keping calm and carrying on will probably really be the answer in the long run, since when people are not interested in the terrorists they will die out. Maybe..

So what would you propose to do instead? Act like the Nazis and condemn muslims, like they did with the jews?

Nippelspanner

06-15-17, 09:06 AM

As Ikalugin said, do not fall in the trap of acting like them.
Excuse me?

I do not want to cut anyone's head off, or want to blow myself up - for whatever reason.
All I want is to live my life in peace, or is it unreasonable to want that?

So don't tell me I am like them, just because I want to protect myself from what seeks my destruction.

So what would you propose to do instead? Act like the Nazis and condemn muslims, like they did with the jews?
Apples and Oranges.
Jews were no threat to Germans, or anyone, and also not to Germany, at no time whatsoever, nor do their beliefs demand to kill others. They lived their lives and that was it.
Muslims follow a radical ideology that commands to destroy what we today call "the west", its values, its false Gods and beliefs, demands the killing of gay people, the abuse of Women and to conquer what is not under Islamic rule yet.

As I said. Apples and Oranges.

ikalugin

06-15-17, 09:12 AM

I do not want to cut anyone's head off, or want to blow myself up - for whatever reason. You appear call for thought policing and prosecuting on the basis of ideology they are a part of, not the crimes individual members of that ideology commit.

Muslims follow a radical ideology that commands to destroy what we today call "the west", its values, its false Gods and beliefs, demands the killing of gay people, the abuse of Women and to conquer what is not under Islamic rule yet.Which doesnt make the carriers of that ideology criminals as long as they do not break the law by doing all those things or incite others to do it.

On the other hand what you can and probably should do (in addition to restoring the rule of law) is to restrict entry of those people into the country by introducing additional checks but base those instruments not on the ideology (islam) but on the crimes that individuals affiliated with it may commit.

Skybird

06-15-17, 11:02 AM

Sounds very anti liberal.
Confronting and defendign against totalitarianism and its expressive ideology is as much anti-liberal as it made me a violent thug when I defended myself against a junky drawing a knife and trying to slit my throat all of a sudden.

Freedom of throught and conscience.Your freedom ends where you start to take away my freedom in favour of yours. My tolerance ends where the other does not meet it with reciprocity.

---

Defending yourself against a crime, does not make yourself a criminal. Confronting a totalitarian aggressive ideology that pushes you all the time, does not make you an aggressive totalitarian person yourself. Using force to fight off him who attacks you, does not justify to accuse you that you are not better than him becasue he forces you to use force yourself in defence against him.

This kind of relativism is an offence to so many victims that one cannot count them all. In the end, it denies the right of self-defence.

Nippelspanner

06-15-17, 12:12 PM

This kind of relativism is an offence to so many victims that one cannot count them all. In the end, it denies the right of self-defence.
Well said.

ikalugin

06-15-17, 12:48 PM

Defending yourself against a crime, does not make yourself a criminal. Confronting a totalitarian aggressive ideology that pushes you all the time, does not make you an aggressive totalitarian person yourself. Using force to fight off him who attacks you, does not justify to accuse you that you are not better than him becasue he forces you to use force yourself in defence against him.Basically we can separate this discussion into two separate points.

First of all, the one where we have common basis. If an individual commits a crime (for example murder, rape, incitement of violence), state must prosecute him in accordance to the law regardless of who he is (for example muslim). If an individual is a member of a group that is most likely to commit a crime (ie a newly arrived male muslim "refugee") then the law enforement efforts should be more focused on him (for example in terms of crime prevention, crime investigation, etc), however that individual should not be prosecuted by the state unless found guilty of a crime by the court of law, with due process.

Secondly, the one where we differ substantially. Upholding any ideology or belief by an individual is not a crime in itself, only specific action by that individual (murder, rape, incitement of violence) or inaction (when this is proscribed by law) is.

Prosecuting against an individual on the basis of an ideology or belief said individual holds, however horrible that ideology belief may be, provided said person did not commit crimes via action or inaction, is in my opinion an act of opression and violates individual rights and de-facto is an act of thought policing.
Thus any policy that does so is, in my opinion, is both against the common good and immoral.

This kind of relativism is an offence to so many victims that one cannot count them all. In the end, it denies the right of self-defence.

Actually it does not deny the right to self defense, it denies agression without cause.

Skybird

06-15-17, 01:46 PM

I hold a Stalinist responsible for the Stalinist ideology he upholds. I hold a Scientologist responsible for the ideology he upholds. I hold a voter responsible for the election vote he casts. I hold a militant nationalist responsible for the nationalistic ideology he upholds. I hold a Nazi responsible for the ideology he upholds.

Why should I make an exception for the Islamic ideology that a Muhammeddan upholds?

It does not matter whether that person is actively or silently supporting the claim of Islam, or just helps it by white-washing it and glossing over it. Like it did not matter whether every single German back then indeed had strnagled a Jew with hois own hand, and indeed was a Nazi by the book or not. Nazism nevertheless was - rightfully - associated with the Germany of that time. It makes no sense to claim that Nazism was no problem of the Germans. It was a problem of the Germans, and Germany. Even of the polite, the friendly, the law-obeying Germans.

So it is with Islam as well. You uphold it, no mmatter whether by conviction or just by mere, unknowing word - I hold you responsible for that, due to the content of that ideology. You claim to be Muslims? Walk away and leave my hiome country, or change yourself. Accepting you I never will. Because that ideology's content is what it is.

Skybird

06-15-17, 06:04 PM

An addon for the above post. In German.

https://www.welt.de/debatte/kommentare/article165588459/Wir-islamisieren-uns-schleichend.html

Skybird

06-16-17, 04:56 AM

And this story, again in German, is about how political correctness and dilletantism of the defence ministress destroys the moral and spirit in the Bundeswehr.

http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/bundeswehr-soldat-macht-scherz-ursula-von-der-leyen-statuiert-exempel-a-1152274.html

Many defence ministers in germany of the past have not been good ones. But van der Leyen, Emanzenpüppi as I call her, is by far the worst I can remember. And she has no clue of military matter. None. Rien. Zero. Nada. The army deeply mistrusts her, and I think dispises her, and she has no clue of the army.

Skybird

06-17-17, 07:56 PM

Muslims demonstrated against terror in Cologne yesterday. Expected were 10 tousand, actually just 3 thousand came. The DITIB, an organisation controlled by the Turkish govenrment, refused to join, so did another of the major Muslim lobby groups.

http://www.dw.com/en/lower-than-expected-turnout-for-muslim-anti-terror-march-in-cologne/a-39294162

However, one has to ask some questions on whether the demonstration really was "a sign against terrorism" and a call for Islam to clean itself from its violent heritage and to critivcally reflect on it sown violent seed, or was just a welcomed opportunity to once again claim that "Islam has nothing to do with it". Self-victimization, and rejecting any responsibility of the Quran for the over 200 passages where it calls for violence against and supression of infidels, were the real intention behind it, most likely.

http://www.emma.de/artikel/warum-die-ramadan-demo-koeln-verlogen-ist-334519

Necla Kelek, the author,
https://tse3.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.xEHwpjUOxRFoHp7CS0r2DAD5D6&pid=15.1&P=0&w=300&h=300
is a German sociologist with Turkish-Cherkessian roots and with special reputation for Islamic society and Islam. She is known to ask critical questions that are politically not opportune and are not wanted to be heard, thats why she is often confronted, ignored, defamed and kept away from discussion - although she is one of Germany's leading experts on Islam. Its just that she is about real Islam, not the wanted cuddly illusion that politically is wanted to be mistaken for Islam. She points out that one of the main supporters of that demonstration is a leading scholar of a town that is a centre of Salafism in germany, a town that saw two dozen IS recruits leaving for Syria and Iraq, five of which were students of this scholar. She says: "Like the Nazis belonged to Germany, so do terrrorists belong to the Ummah, and Islamism belongs to Islam."

Ooops - has she a direct wire into my brain? I am saying the very same.

Skybird

06-29-17, 08:24 AM

Why the modern Germany again is so mercilessly collectively oriented, which makes German mentality extremely vulnerable for totalitarianism, enforced collectivism, willing to allow paternalistic infantilizing by a strong centralized nanny state, and in general time and again falls for a strong Führer (or VerFührerin).

http://www.achgut.com/artikel/demokratie_das_deutsche_missverstaendnis

The text is an excerpt from the book "Mal eben kurz die Welt retten - Die Deutschen zwischen Größenwahn und Selbstverleugnung."

In no other country in the world there is such a strong club-mentality and do so many clubs and associations exist, like in Germany. In no other country (not even the Asian countries which are assoiacted with strong collectivistic mindsets so easily) you will find such a big share of the general population beign organised in clubs and associations.

And in no other country of the West you find the educqaiton sector and the media sector being so overwhelmingly infiltrated by left-leaning ideologists.

This is why Germans stare in disbelief at individualists (=egoists!) daring to do their own thing and not caring for the crowd. this is why Germans find the idea that Trump could be elected as president, and the Britons voting for Brexit, unimaginable. Germans have transformed totalitarian collectivism of the past into something new, or better, they dressed it in new clothes: they now call it "consensus", and they believe that the state-ordered consensus goal is "without alternative". Here it helps that Merkel has managed to render all political differentiations between parties pointless. Germany today in principle is a socialist one-party-state like the GDR was. The pluralism the state-sponsored and state-nursed left-leaning journalistic claquers stand ready to point at all too willingly, the severla parties there are in the Bundestag that give them food for their daily talk shows and witty comments in newspapers: are just deception, strawman, alibi. They mean nothing. The diversity is Potemkian diversity.

Which is okay for the German's mentality, as long as he is not excluded form the running pack of dogs. And so, in case of doubts or danger of being accused of having a different opinion, he choses to again howl with the dog pack.

We have had two socialist dictatorships in a row over here. And this is where it has led us. Lessons learned: none.

---

On a sidenote, the German Lieutenant-Colonel from that story I linked to some days ago, two posts above, has filed charges against the German defence ministress, apparently for character assassination. Its the first time ever I think that a German defence minister or ministress :D gets sued by a high ranking German military officer.

---

Finally, Schultz has called the Bundestag for legalizing same-sex marriages, in a bit to get these clients' votes. Merkel immediately and without any scrupels withdrew from positions the CDU had held for decades, and allowed the vote to be individual (which, Big Mama, is just what the constitution says anyway, not only is there no constitutional basis for parties' claim and demand that politicians have to vote in accordance with party policy - the constitution even explicitly says that it cannot be like that at all: article 38, paragraph 1). Again, the only principle of Merkelianism has shown in her ruthless acting free of any moral values and ethical hindrances: the principle of that there never shall be principles allowed to come in her way, and that no principles shall ever be allowed to stand between her and power. Opportunism in its purest form.

Catfish

06-29-17, 09:42 AM

insert *swearword* here.

I have to agree for a third time. Unbelievable. :wah:

Skybird

06-29-17, 12:24 PM

I merkelized you. My opinion is without alternative. Mcgyver you out of this, if you can. :D

Nippelspanner

06-29-17, 12:34 PM

insert *swearword* here.

I have to agree for a third time. Unbelievable. :wah:
Really?
That surprises me.

How are the Germans in regards of "club mentality" any different from the British, or Americans, or whoever? I'd really like to see data to back this rather silly claim up. From my POV, it isn't like that at all.

This is completely normal, and the purpose of all these activities is hardly "I am a pack animal, I need to submit", and surely does it not have anything to do with politics.
Where are the parallels? :hmmm:

I think you the author reads too much into this.

skidman

06-29-17, 01:29 PM

You're saying this as if this behavior is unjustified.
Remind me.
How many synagogues have to be searched by police units due to religious motivated terror attacks committed by jews?
How many rabbis do they arrest because they preach about killing unbelievers?
How many synagogues can be connected to being safe houses or recruitment centers for terrorists?

And how often do the examples above apply to mosques?

You missed my point completely, but Your reply is a good example of anti-muslim attitude in Germany (which was neglected by the big bird. He stated that Germany was antisemitic but pro islam. That is obviously nonsense on stilts).

So, how many mosques do we have in Germany? Thousands. And how many muslims? Millions. And how many can be considered islamists? A tiny fraction. Freedom of religion is a basic right guaranteed by our constitution. Do you want to change this?

Do you agree that exegeses and interpretations of religious foundations are subject to constant change? Have you heard about the new mosque founded in Berlin a few days ago, with a female imam, men and women praying together in one room and a liberal approach towards dos and don'ts? Islam can change and in many aspects it has to. But putting a label on muslims and pegging them as terrorists is simply stupid.

I can see that You and the big bird are taking muslims as scapegoats. Well, it seems that's the German way to do it. And yes, that is disgusting.

Nippelspanner

06-29-17, 02:03 PM

You missed my point completely, but Your reply is a good example of anti-muslim attitude in Germany
I wish. Germany is not anti-islam enough, unfortunately.
And we can witness daily where this is leading, all over Europe, not just Germany.
But keep telling yourself that we're all equals and all want the same, and everything will be dandy as long as we talk to each other and dance our names in a circle of love, holding hands.

Go try that with a Muslim.
And mind my words: Muslim.
I'm not talking about "fashion Muslims", that don't live by the Quran, yet call themselves Muslim.
If you do not do as the Quran says, you're no Muslim.
The book leaves no room for interpretation or debate there. None at all.

I'm no fighter pilot just because I claim to be.
We are what we do, not what we say.

So, how many mosques do we have in Germany? Thousands. And how many muslims? Millions. And how many can be considered islamists? A tiny fraction. Freedom of religion is a basic right guaranteed by our constitution. Do you want to change this?
Ahhh, here we go again, the myth about the tiny radical Muslim minority (https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/articles/opinion-polls.aspx#violence) - the "Islam means peace!" pamphlets lying around at your workplace sure did their job.

And the problem with religious freedom is that Islam is not just some religion.
It is, in its core, a radical ideology seeking global domination, prosecution
and even death of those that either do not believe, or just want to leave Islam.

So go tell me about religious freedom again...

Do you agree that exegeses and interpretations of religious foundations are subject to constant change? Have you heard about the new mosque founded in Berlin a few days ago, with a female imam, men and women praying together in one room and a liberal approach towards dos and don'ts? Islam can change and in many aspects it has to. But putting a label on muslims and pegging them as terrorists is simply stupid.
No, it is not stupid at all, it is simply what it is.
I said it before, but I'll say it again:

The Quran must not be questioned.
Mohammed must not be questioned.
Doing either, will end your life, by Sharia-law.

This ideology was created with a fail-safe protection mechanism, and that is one of the big problems. I heard about this new Mosque, and while I wish Islam could be reformed, it is simply impossible.
You cannot just take Islam, adjust it to your western standards, and call it a day. As soon as you change it, it isn't Islam anymore.
So call it what you wish, but that Mosque has nothing to do with Islam.
Unfortunately.

And let's see how long it takes until something happens either to this Mosque, or those responsible.

I can see that You and the big bird are taking muslims as scapegoats. Well, it seems that's the German way to do it. And yes, that is disgusting.
Do you think talking about Skybird in such a derogatory way will give your "arguments" (claims based on emotion - nothing of value in the end) any weight?
It won't.
It should provoke the mods, though.

So, "scapegoats"?
Scapegoats for... what exactly? :hmmm:
Now I am very curious indeed, as this is quite an accusation.
You better have a solid explanation, backed with facts, I hope?

I'm listening. :ping:

Catfish

06-30-17, 03:46 AM

I merkelized you. My opinion is without alternative. Mcgyver you out of this, if you can. :D

Ok so let's see, i only agree with some of your points, of course.

"Why the modern Germany again is so mercilessly collectively oriented, which makes German mentality extremely vulnerable for totalitarianism, enforced collectivism, willing to allow paternalistic infantilizing by a strong centralized nanny state, and in general time and again falls for a strong Führer (or VerFührerin)."I prefer what you like to call "collectivism" to the totalitarism Germany obviously had before, and to what i see almost everyhere else in the world. Yes, democracy and allowing free speech makes a country vulnerable, however i still prefer this! Which is why i also agree not to entirely close the borders out of fear or Angst. I indeed think we are strong enough.
We have to be a "wehrhafte Demokratie". "Paternalistic infantilizing" my donkey, peope are too comfortable, the politicians just use what they see.
Blame it on yourself, not on those political uneducated mongrels. Why are you here like me, saving the world with writing in a forum few people read, instead of going into politics and spread the word.

"The text is an excerpt from the book "Mal eben kurz die Welt retten - Die Deutschen zwischen Größenwahn und Selbstverleugnung."
http://www.achgut.com/artikel/demokr...ssverstaendnis " (http://www.achgut.com/artikel/demokratie_das_deutsche_missverstaendnis)Jaja, ok, nice article but also just rhetorics. You know when we in our convention decided to introduce a debating society in our res. hall back then, the first proposal (done by me) had the theme "Why rhetorical speech and debating societies are bad for the character", and i of course won :03:

Also nice: Junkcer's quote, being used all the time: "Wir beschließen etwas, stellen das dann in den Raum und warten einige Zeit ab, was passiert. Wenn es dann kein großes Geschrei gibt und keine Aufstände, weil die meisten gar nicht begreifen, was da beschlossen wurde, dann machen wir weiter – Schritt für Schritt, bis es kein Zurück mehr gibt.“

Oh yes, how can he dare to openly say what politicians and "leaders" do since millenia? He has at least the right ideas, of a certain protection of citizens vs. big companies, or for workers rights, or for humane labour time. The Unions are finished, so who shall do their job now?
You know what? If Churchill had said exactly that, it would be one of his most heroic and well-known quotes, against all odds, always seeing us through in blind stubborness. But that this Juncker says it, noooo the world will end, he is a dictator, blah. For the record I don't like both, from war lover to bureaucrat.

In no other country in the world there is such a strong club-mentality and do so many clubs and associations exist, like in Germany. In no other country (not even the Asian countries which are assoiacted with strong collectivistic mindsets so easily) you will find such a big share of the general population beign organised in clubs and associations.No, this is no longer so. In our times less and less germans are organised in clubs or organisations. In fact there are way more clubs and associations in England, not that this is a partcularly bad idea. Myself I try to evade such though, be it here or in England.

And in no other country of the West you find the educqaiton sector and the media sector being so overwhelmingly infiltrated by left-leaning ideologists. It is now à la mode to call all common sense and center media reporting "left", just because it is easier to read the simplistic worldview and populistic right-wing Sun, Bild, or Fox, or Breitbart hate fake news. I guess "American Thinker" (this name just of all lmao) is the top of this bovine scatology. Yes, all else is so "complicated", and you have to "think". Those right wing media express how i feel and serve my gut feeling, so why should i bother to actively think and make up my mind? Too much effort needed from my side!

One of those good right-wing questions was "why journalists tend to be leftist" or something in that vein. It may sound elitist, but up to recent times and the internet becoming so accessible by all, journalism was tied to more or less educated persons, who could at least read and write, and had some journalistic and historical background education, and maybe even some ethos.
Not now. Now every dombdonkey can climb a soapbox and create an internet "media presence", to spread his lunatic views, hate, and serve those "gut feelings". Can i have a "like" if you like dogs and Trump and the NRA?

But this does not make common sense "left", it is just a try to turn things upside down, to shake democratic foundations for a right-wing restoration. I think this is pretty easy to see, especially in the US, a.d. Trump I.

[...] Here it helps that Merkel has managed to render all political differentiations between parties pointless. Germany today in principle is a socialist one-party-state like the GDR was. The pluralism the state-sponsored and state-nursed left-leaning journalistic claquers stand ready to point at all too willingly, the severla parties there are in the Bundestag that give them food for their daily talk shows and witty comments in newspapers: are just deception, strawman, alibi. They mean nothing. The diversity is Potemkian diversity.Apart from calling this "left", because it is simply lacking interest, comfortable numbness and a general disintest in politics, i agree. Merkel just claims all ideas for being hers and immediately incorporates them, so there can be no opposition. Schultz is really helpless; not that i think too high of him.

---On a sidenote, the German Lieutenant-Colonel from that story I linked to some days ago, two posts above, has filed charges against the German defence ministress, apparently for character assassination. Its the first time ever I think that a German defence minister or ministress :D gets sued by a high ranking German military officer.---To accuse this officer is awful, i agree :nope:

Finally, Schultz has called the Bundestag for legalizing same-sex marriages, in a bit to get these clients' votes. Merkel immediately and without any scrupels withdrew from positions the CDU had held for decades, and allowed the vote to be individual (which, Big Mama, is just what the constitution says anyway, not only is there no constitutional basis for parties' claim and demand that politicians have to vote in accordance with party policy - the constitution even explicitly says that it cannot be like that at all: article 38, paragraph 1). Again, the only principle of Merkelianism has shown in her ruthless acting free of any moral values and ethical hindrances: the principle of that there never shall be principles allowed to come in her way, and that no principles shall ever be allowed to stand between her and power. Opportunism in its purest form.100 percent agreement here.

Well long post, and no one will read it :haha:

Skybird

06-30-17, 05:11 AM

Catfish, it is a historic fact that the educational sector was conquered by the left ideologists since the 68er, and same is true for the field of journalism. When you switch on especially state propaganda TV and radio, you get just a brew of politically correct phrasing, opinion pieces pretending to be fact reporting, and Tagesthemen and Heute Journal moderators who openly admit that they take it upon them to protect the public from news that in their opinion could deliver a blow to the public consensus opinion climate that everybody has to to believe and that mirrors the Politikersprech and reality distortions of the parties. Even the daily Heute-Sendung has degenerated to a display of personal consternation and emotional sensitivities of the announcer. That is not just unprofessional, that is simply incapable and incompetent. The the quality of the "news" from these propaganda outlets - financed via mandatory taxes and so unavailable for any competition and quality control - show that.

I do not tell every time all the historic story of Why and How, yes. I refer to the political left and right simply to remain "communicatable". But the terms, historically, have meanings and are not as arbitrarily as you imply.

Conservatism is only as good as what it conserves.

Socialist thought owes its appeal to the young largely to its visionary character; the very courage to indulge in Utopian thought is in this respect a source of strength for socialism which traditional liberalism sadly lacks. Speculation about general principles provides an opportunity for the play of the imagination of those who are unencumbered by much knowledge of the facts of present-day life. Their ideas suffer from inherent contradictions, and any attempt to put them into practice must produce something utterly different from what they expect.

It is rarely remembered now that socialism in its beginnings was frankly authoritarian. It began quite openly as a reaction against the liberalism of the French Revolution. The French writers who laid its foundation had no doubt that their ideas could be put into practice only by a strong dictatorial government. The first of modern planners, Saint-Simon, predicted that those who did not obey his proposed planning boards would be 'treated as cattle'.

The argument for liberty is not an argument against organization, which is one of the most powerful tools human reason can employ, but an argument against all exclusive, privileged, monopolistic organization, against the use of coercion to prevent others from doing better. The principle that the end justifies the means is in individualist ethics regarded as the denial of all morals. In collectivist ethics it becomes necessarily the supreme rule. F.A. Hayek

ikalugin

06-30-17, 05:20 AM

A spectre is haunting Europe—the spectre of communism.

Catfish

06-30-17, 06:15 AM

^ not really :)

It is more the Gespenst of Trump, terrorism, a right-wing shift, and Putin. Communism never existed, by any definition, and i guess it never will.

Nippelspanner

06-30-17, 10:55 AM

Well long post, and no one will read it :haha:
I did, and I liked it, mostly.
What's my price?!
GIB PREIS!

Skybird

06-30-17, 01:52 PM

The spectre is no spectre at all. ironically, never before in history has socialist thinking been blossoming so shamelessly and is enjoying itself so frankly, like today throughout Europe, since the end of the cold war, the "victory" of capitalism, the "defeat" of communism.

Meanwhile socialism remained to stay as impotent as ever to feed all the many billions, growing, that live, walk and crawl on this planet. The burden to deal with that is left to the "market" as the only creator of goods and items and food, defaming said market economy at the same time on the grounds of envy, and calling that envy "social justice". Socialism, as always, sits aside, only commands, and ruthlessly consumes the reserves.As long as reserves last. Planned reality is its only answer. As if reality, nature, truth ever have bowed to political ideology and ideologic dreamdancing! LOL

Catfish

06-30-17, 02:19 PM

^ So, capitalists are socialists. Or have become socialists. But only in Europe. But not in Switzerland, Poland, Romania. But in Germany.
Or no, all those workers are the poor greedy socialists that rob the rich good capitalists of their well-deserved wealth, and products. But where would the capitalists' wealth be if no one bought their products?
Too difficult, must read Breitbart for explanation. Or Ayn Rand.

ikalugin

06-30-17, 02:57 PM

The spectre is no spectre at all.
The spectre is that of communism, not socialism.

The fun times are still ahead.

Skybird

06-30-17, 07:23 PM

The spectre is that of communism, not socialism.

The fun times are still ahead.

"Socialism" is a way to say "communism" but hiding it in a more friendly word to not attract criticism. Socialism is the front and communism the rear of one and the same thing.

Like "social market economy" means planned economy while not calling it by its real name, so to dodge the counter-fire.

From the fact that people are very different it follows that, if we treat them equally, the result must be inequality in their actual position, and that the only way to place them in an equal position would be to treat them differently. Equality before the law and material equality are therefore not only different but are in conflict with each other; and we can achieve either one or the other, but not both at the same time.
Hayek. Brilliantly said.

Skybird

07-07-17, 07:37 AM

Black-dressed scum clashes with the police for the second night in a row, With riot events of today, so far 160 police officers have been injured. An unknown number of cars have been set ablaze, their owner mostly will have to pay for most of these damages (insurrances do not cover full or any costs of vandalism). Shop owners reported yesterday that "autonomous" activists blackmailed them for protection money.

Although they expected clashes and violence, police says it is shocked by the display of readiness to use even dangerous, life-threatening ammounts of violence. Night reports by the police called desperately for help, wording explicitly "danger for life and limb", and Hamburg has urgently sent requests for police reinforcements from all federal states, demanding that all police reserves across Germany shall be rushed to Hamburg ASAP.

I will never understand why these summits must be held, to me they are a waste of time and purely absolutistic shows of narcissism "Look how important we are", and I fail to see why the hell they do their best to make them as expensive as possible by not sending the delegations on some high sea cruising ship or aircraft carrier, but right into the centres of urban life. They know these summits are not populare with the populations (that also pay the price), and yet they impose their damn presence right on the citizens disliking them. Shows what feudal attitude this political scum has.

Politicians and autonomous brutes, I dispise the one as much as the other. I wish they all would just go up in flames. Dirtbags.

"In governments, the scum raises to the top." - Hayek. And in Hamburg, it currently floods the streets.

Skybird

07-07-17, 09:03 AM

Attacks on poeaceful, non-protesting residents get reported, people just happen to live in a street where the mob is raging through. Also attacks on private homes get reported.

The state has a self-declared duty to prpotect not just life and limb of citizens, but also their private property. Instead, the state trigger events by holding such summits and knpowing that he will expose his sitizens to such violence then, and damages all too often have to be paid for by the private victims of the violence.

Some years ago, police was prohibited by politicians to shield themselves with arm-shields. It was considered to be "escalatory" and "provocative". Since then, you do not see police with armshields often. Instead, one sent police officers with "De-escalation team" written on their chests and backs, to send a peaceful message and talk the other side into pacifism.

Has not worked often since then, does not work this time. Where the other arrives with the intention to party, party-prevention strategies must fail.

Pity that police is a state "service" that is monopolistic, not a privately provided service by competing companies that could be replaced if they fail to deliver the contracted load they got paid for. But as a state "service", this service gets its orders by politicians, not by the recipients of said "service".

Self-preparing defence by arming yourself also is forbidden, of course. You can get into trouble even if using pepperspray in selfdefence against an attacker. Firearms not even mentioned.

We shall lay in our own poo and wait for the nannystate to clean us. Some even think that laying in our poo doing nothing, is a virtue.

Why I am so upset? For two reasons. First for the reasons outlined, and second I know two guys being in the thick of it, one is on duty since yesterday evening, and 12 hours later since this morning he is in hospital.

Catfish

07-07-17, 11:36 AM

Why, of all places, in a city like Hamburg?
Really, is there no camp or anything far out :doh:

Nippelspanner

07-07-17, 06:04 PM

My best friend lives in Hamburg, and I am just some 30-45minutes out myself.
She showed me this picture:
http://i.imgur.com/dOuEESS.png

This is crazy, looks like a civil war zone.
And reports use these words more often as well.
Police is being attacked brutally, without remorse, helicopters were attacked with self-made rockets (wtf!?) and a hospital declared some sort of emergency situation as well.

This is fun. :hmmm:

And yes, as Skybird said, really great idea to hold these meetings in the middle of a city. How much tax-money could be saved by finding other solutions? But hey, the suits need to get suites!

#priorities

Skybird

07-07-17, 08:34 PM

I cannot recall to have ever seen German riot police going to the street with assault rifles on the ready. But this is what it is like now in Hamburg. Special police forces are attacking a certain zone of Hamburg that is known since long as a left hotspot of anarchy and state-hostile sub-"culture". Not police guarding the politicians, not body guards - riot police. It seems the night once again is hot over there.

http://p5.focus.de/img/fotos/origs7331795/7011698436-w630-h443-o-q75-p5/1495d000eefc6a37.jpg

Dozens of cars of private owners and families have been set ablaze. What exactly had climate policy and Trump protests to do with burning the cars of ordinary families and smashing the windows of little shop owners?

http://p5.focus.de/img/fotos/crop7331732/1144876634-cv21_9-w630-h270-oc-q75-p5/urn-newsml-dpa-com-20090101-170707-99-159912-large-4-3.jpg

Protest organisers attack the police for being "provoking" and "brutal", demanding that the law shoud be bend in their favour and a certain ammount of violence should be found okay and acceptable, due to "it" being a protest. How many cars burned per street exactly is acceptable, he did not say. Is three cars every 200 m okay? Or just 2 cars? Or better 8, to give some space to avoid misunderstandings and prevent the police from becoming "provoking" again too early?

Residents also said they observed that normally dressed protesters earlier this day suddenly got out of their clothes and then were autonomous black, started to smash windows and set cars ablaze - and then dressed back again and melt into the crowd apparently. Things like this explain quite well why the police is trying to act so "harsh".

Also, looting and plundering got reported today and this night.

In an ideal world, the moment a flying stone or Molotow cocktail leaves your hand, you would be found guilty of vandalism and criminal damage - or attempted murder if it flies not against a window or car, but into a crwod of people, uniform and civilian clothing doe snot matter. In both cases prison time as penalty, and full financial compensation, of course. I do not like suspended sentences, psychvologically they make no sense but even violate psychological learning theory. If you throw a brick or molotow cocktail at a human, you accept him getting killed. And that to me is the intention to kill, plain and simple.

Skybird

07-08-17, 09:22 AM

http://www.zeit.de/hamburg/2017-07/g20-demonstration-hamburg-attac-schwarzer-block

Was für ein niederträchtig und dämlich daherschwafelndes AL. :arrgh!:

The end of a summer fairy tale:

http://www.achgut.com/artikel/das_ende_eines_sommermaerchens

P.S. Update on the guys I talked of, they are the sons of a police officer I know here in my hometown, who are in the police themselves, too. They got called as reinforcement for the summit to Hamburg, like so many others. One was attacked by some brute, and treated for two slightly bropken ribs. Well. If you kinow what kind of body armour these riot police officer wear under the black overall, you know the solid and massive quality of it. If then two ribs slightly break, this means that quite immense force and power has been effective at the point of impact on the body. The body armour at that part of the body, so I was told, may be of hard armoured special plastic or carbonfibre material, depending on the model worn, and is over 1 cm thick.

Skybird

07-08-17, 10:17 AM

Protesting against the Donald Trump:
http://img.zeit.de/politik/deutschland/2017-07/g20-schanze-ausschreitungen-bilder/rtx3al7v-940x.jpg/imagegroup/original

Fighting for social justice:
http://img.zeit.de/politik/deutschland/2017-07/g20-schanze-ausschreitungen-bilder/gettyimages-810466166-940x528.jpg/imagegroup/original

Loosers Heroes seeking their 15 minutes of fame:
http://img.zeit.de/politik/deutschland/2017-07/g20-schanze-ausschreitungen-bilder/92233498-940x.jpg/imagegroup/original

The end of sarcasm: if you throw these at human beings, this is nothing else than attempted murder:
http://img.zeit.de/politik/deutschland/2017-07/g20-schanze-ausschreitungen-bilder/92233161-940x528.jpg/imagegroup/original

Schroeder

07-08-17, 10:49 AM

Jimbuna

07-09-17, 08:03 AM

For all I care the police should have used rubber bullets (not even sure we still have them). If one of these scum bags buys it from one good riddance. These people deserve years of prison time. But most will get away as usual. Here I wish for the police to be way less restrained. You loot shops, set cars ablaze and throw large rocks at people you deserve no restraint on part of the police.:down:

Agreed and have these summits in more remote areas where innocent locals are less likely to be affected by the opportunistic disgraceful behaviour of these mindless oxygen thieves.

Skybird

07-09-17, 09:06 AM

Official statistic: 476 injured policemen. Yesterday they said that almost 20 thousand policemen were on duty. On average they were over 20 hours per day on station, for several days and nights in a row. All in that heavy protective gear. And summer temperatures. The number of officers who collapsed due to overheating, is not included in the number of injured I mentioned before. Early this week media talked of one dozen on that one day - Monday I think - alone.

All for nothing but a freak show resulting in hot air spoken into microphones, and a gang of self-aggrandising narcissists displaying a feudal attitude of how indispensable they think they are.

Nippelspanner

07-09-17, 09:09 AM

Greetings from the tax-payer -.-

Jimbuna

07-09-17, 11:16 AM

Not long ago watched a video report on the troubles and couldn't help thinking when the water cannon were discharged 'probably the only shower a lot of them have had in a good while'.

Catfish

07-09-17, 12:25 PM

Who could have seen this coming..

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/jun/27/g20-toronto-protest-riot

Catfish

07-09-17, 12:30 PM

Meanwhile, the German Airforce withdraws its jets from "Nato-partner" Turkey..

http://en.azvision.az/news/66672/turkish-opposition-hails-german-air-force%E2%80%99s-leaving-incirlik.html

http://www.politico.eu/article/germany-starts-military-pull-out-from-turkey-after-diplomatic-spat/

I wonder how this goes on, ten thousands arrested, almost all teachers, and the opposition forced to "vote" for Erdoghan's dictatorship, while he continues to build up an islamic state :hmmm:
Anyway no chance to join the EU now, good.

Skybird

07-09-17, 12:49 PM

Not long ago watched a video report on the troubles and couldn't help thinking when the water cannon were discharged 'probably the only shower a lot of them have had in a good while'.

^:D

There were also many scenes where residents tried to express their thanks for the police trying to protect their homes by having families moving around the parked troop transports and distributing candies, drinks, waterbottles, snacks, and the like. The black shadows over the events after all have been caused by just a few hundred AHs (around 1500, it was said once) that were not about demonstrating at all, never. Many thousands more protested peacefully, even traded greetings with police troopers at the very end.

In some German media an interesting question gets asked. Could it be imagined that we just sit and talk if all that violence against property as well as limb and life would not have been committed by "autonomous" and left-leaning groups, but by rightwing groups and Nazi extremists? The answer is No, and I can easily imagien how plticians already would hyprventilate and the TV channels would go up and down on discussions about how Germans can be activated to enagge agaunst those evil rightwing nutties.

Truth is that we are so left and that SPD, Greens are in troubling parts sympathising with the so-called autonomous scene, that we are measuring things with double standards and are intentionally blind on our left eye, while opening the right eye even wider. And this although the Verfassungsschutz (office for the protection of the constitution) reminded on the fact that in 2015 there have been almost twice as many violent criminal acts committed by left extremists, than by right extremists, also there are more lft than right extremists being observed in Germany.

When former SPD ministress for social affairs and family Manuela Schwesig took to office some years ago, the first thing she did was to cancel a partial ban on state-financing the "alternative" scene associated with the political left - while leaving the same ban on the right-leaning alternative scene in place.

We gloss over left extremist violence, and give it a nice appearing and sweet-talking over it. Its harmnless, its left, and left has somethignt o do with legitimate social demands and problems, right? The "right" meanwhile gets deminised even more, and more and more the brandmark of "right" is beign used to silence unwanted opinions and critics in general - who originally are not any rightwing and extremkst at all.

Meanwhile the lawyer of the alternative scene in Hamburg, who is an old dog himself and part of that "scene", said that many of this scene, including himself, tolerate and sympathise with the use of violence - but demanded that people should not vandalise in the city district where this "scene" feels at home, but should set ablaze other city districts instead , namely that of the wealthier class.

Its about loosers not wanting to take responsibility for where they are in life. Its like always when "social justice" and "socialist revolution" get propagated: its about envy, plain and simple.

Once again I am with Hayek there, who said that although he spend decades on thinking about the meaning of the phrase "social justice" he finally came to the conclusion that the term is utterly meaningless in essence, and I would add: its all too often an excuse for mere robbing and plundering. With or without state license.

I have been to Hamburg repeatedly earlier this year, having a series of business dates. Not the worst place on Earth to live in. :yeah: And the Hanseatic mentality and attitude is special anyway.

Catfish

07-09-17, 01:53 PM

^ which of all is true for all G20 summits, and "protesters".
Not an entirely german phenomene and to be expected.
Again why in a big city, instead of a camp far out?

Skybird

07-12-17, 07:09 AM

Some years ago I caused a row in this forum when i first revealed that I pretty much despise two icons of the self-rightous philantropists: the so-called Mother Theresa, also known as Angel from Hell, and Mahatma Gandhi.

Stumbled over this. Its not really German politics, but since it is written in German, I put it in here. About the dark sides of Ghandi, who apparently was a racist and despiser of women and women equality.

http://www.focus.de/wissen/mensch/rassistische-zuege-und-frauenfeindlichkeit-heldenbild-broeckelt-gandhi-sah-vergewaltigte-frauen-nicht-mehr-als-menschen-an_id_7345145.html

Add to this that if Nehru wouldn'T have stopped him, at minimum three million Indians would have died by starvation in the first year alone if Gandhi would have had his ways with his agricultural reforms.

Its time to kick this monument of its pillar. It never belonged there. He had no skills and no special understandings and no superior moral or philosophy. What he had, was simply: LUCK.

Catfish

07-12-17, 07:31 AM

And this man is a lawyer ?! :hmmm:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_F871leXm8

:doh:

mapuc

07-12-17, 05:04 PM

A newspaper had this link on they fb-page. The article was about how much Germany had earned on Greece economy-problems

GERMANY has profited from Greece's debt misery to the tune of £1.19billion (€1.34bn), shock figures have revealed.

http://www.express.co.uk/finance/city/827811/Germany-Greek-debt-news-bailout-billion-loans-interest-payment

(The article could also have been put in our Greece thread, however that thread is long gone and this Germany thread is still alive)

Markus

Skybird

07-12-17, 06:09 PM

A loan from Kreditanstalt für Wiederaufbau (KfW), the state development bank, has raked in about £350million (€393m) from interest payments since 2010, according to the Süddeutsche Zeitung.Sensation! A creditor gets interests paid for lending a credit!

Scandal! The higher the risks for the creditor, the higher the interests!

Do we want to talk about how many billions and billions in credits Germany guarantees for within the framework of the infamous TARGET system?

I do not want to talk about it. The numbers Germany has in the fire and most likely will never get back, are so high that they make me dizzy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TARGET2

In easier words, it works like this: a country's any bank asks the German Bundesbank to buy in their name for example bonds. The Bundesbank does, and "hands the bonds over", signs them over to the asking bank. However, in the TARGET framework, the asking bank does not pay the Bundesbank, but signs the liability over to the ECB. The ECB then confirms to the German Bundesbank that the ECB owes the money to the Bundesbank. The ECB does not pay the Bundesbank, it just agrees that it owes the Bundesbank the money.

As stupid and self-damaging as it sounds - this is all it is about. You better beleive it, it is dumb, it is stupid, it is insane, but that is what it is about. Bank A gets the bonds, the Bank B (ECB) makes a promise it never can be called on, and the Bundesbank has had the costs and now has the outstanding payment and stands there with empty hands.

This is one way how you have states financing other states' debts without calling the game by its real name, since it is forbidden for states to finance other states' debts by the dictate of Lisbon.

Minimum estimation for the German demands to the ECB on grounds of TARGET2: almost 900 billion Euros. Says the Bundesbank. Independent critics of the Euro and EU economy calculate even higher numbers, but German politicians do not want the public to know this.

TARGET 2 liabilities have the potential to blow the Eurozone into a million tiny bits of pieces.

Major profiteers of this insane system are the net receiver countries in Southern Europe. Especially Greece, Italy, Spain.

And now a dubious yellowpress newspaper with the suspicious word "Express" in its name ( I call condition yellow at least whenever a newspaper is named "Express-something") calls Germany out for the KfW having gotten interests worth 370 million for outstanding credits since 2010...? I'm shocked!

Meanwhile, Greece has gotten another Eurozone credit. To pay back its debts.

Mapuc, lend me 100 Euros. You get it back, plus 5 Euros, okay? By the end of the year. Because by the end of the year you lend me another 150 Euros, from this money I then can pay back those 100+5 Euros to you, and have 45 Euros left to live next year. You will then need to lend me another 100 Euros, to bring me over the year, and by the end of the year again 200 Euros, so hat I can pay you a higher interest and can pay you back your money you lend me and live the year after. I also need to pay out my other creditors, so please, would you mind to additionally lend me some more money? Maybe 100 Euros - additionally? Its just a credit, you get it back, don't worry, I have my honour, I make an oath if you want. Promised!

I also want to own an ounce of gold. If you buy it for me, you could send it to me then. I tell Neal that he owes you that money in the name of subsim forum solidarity. He will confirm this to you that you have claim towards him. He will not pay you out of course, but you have the claim confirmed then. that is good. It helps to keep things in order, black on white. You then have a written note of evidence that confirms that Neal owes you money. You see, no hooks in that, its all in order!

Don't make yourself look like an idiot, mapuc - better say No! I beg you! :D

Because I will demand you to pay me back the interest I promised you for your credit. And the credit(s) you gave I will never pay you back anyway. Not without you lendign me mor emoney first to do so.

You get the problem, yes? :03: The problem is that Greece' debt cycle is out of control. And us creditors - we will loose most of the money we gave if we agree a cut of debts, and we will loose money if we agree to give more credits. They money we have given - dozens and hundreds of billions - is gone. We will never get it back already.

P.S. Add to this TARGET2-mess the formal credits Germany has paid out to Greece, and others. Then we rerach deep into the trillions of outstanding money. Germany has debts with other nations as weoll, but the point is, these nations owe us even more money. If you calculate it tid-for-tad - then we are the big loosers. Thats why the final calculation gets delayed and delayed. The show must keep on running. By illusions, lies and cheats.

This is what Kynes meant by his famous and often quoted reply to a reporter's question: "In the end we are all dead."

mapuc

07-12-17, 07:24 PM

Thank you Skybird for this well put answer to my link.

I have no excuse for my bad short-time memory, ´cause when I read the article in Danish I came to think of you and this thread and I wondered how your response would be as an German to these accusation the article seem to put on Germany.

I'm not an expert on economy. I know how to balance my own budget and how to pay interest if I have taken a loan-But Budget on a country scale-is way out of my knowledge

You are right, thou bigger a loan is thou bigger is the payment for the interest. 5 % of 1 billion os a lot more than 4 % of 1 million.

Markus

Skybird

07-13-17, 05:24 AM

Its all beyond hope. It is denied that "wasted money" means "wasted", means: "loss", it instead gets called "lending". Throw money out of the winodw or burn it in your backyard, and it is not gone forever, no, it is a "credit". Call interests paid for risks not interests, but cal them "social injustice" or "lack of solidarity". Call expropriation and devaluation not expropriation and devaluation, but call it "negative interests" (this time of course neither socially unfair nor "antisolidaric", but "a strong sign for Europe").

"Financial products"? LOL Where is the "product", show it to me!? Financial products are debts collected, painted new, and called as something different, anything just not "debts". This package of somebody else's debts then is what you pay money for to get it as your "financial product". You buy other'S debts. Your "product" that is.

Pension fonds? The same: packs of states' notes of indebtness that get mandatorily - enforced by the state by monopolistic authority - mixed with some stocks of real world assets (companies), most part of pension fonds however are legally demanded to consist of state bonds - so that the state shall have the right to force buyers of this formdiable "financial product" to lend the state money.

Buy such fonds, and you always get forced to buy plenty of toxic waste along with some minor candy.

It gets even better. Bonds are notes of indebtness. What happens if you buy bonds, then, especially worse: bonds of the state you live in? You place a bet there, and a very stupid bet it is. The state needs to pay back this credit you give him, plus interests (okay, no interests anymore these insane days, sometimes you even have to pay the state for the privilige of lending it money....) . The only way to poay back these debts is to either blackmail more protection money (taxing the people), or to take up another credit to use the money from it for payiong your credit and interests.

In other words: if you buy state bonds, you pay for your bet that you will either get expropritated even more via higher taxes or via devaluation of money, since every credit handed out increases the ammount of Giralgeld, book money (over 95% of the money created and poumped into the markets, is not "printed money", but stems from the business banks handing out new credits). Now I ask everybody - is that a clever bet...? You bet that you loose money - and for this bet you pay if you lose, and you pay if you win.

Simple thoughts for longterm investment strategists.

Why is it that credits handed out increase the ammount of book money, Giralgeld? Because banks must place 1% of the credit value they grant their customers with the ECB, as a "material" security. I pay 100 Euros in, on my bank account. Actually I hold no deposits whatever anymore on my banking account, but for the sake of the story... : If the bank places these 100 Euros at the ECB, it then can hand out 100x100= 10000 Euros in credits to other customers, money that the bank must not have (fractional reserve banking logic), and thus creates newly out of the blue. These 10 thosuand Euros then get into economic ciruclation, and sooner or later gets paid in to banska gain. Banks place thesem at the ECB, and then can hand out another 10000x100 Euros in credit: becasue I have handed over a 100 Euro note to stock up my bank account, the banks can create 1 million Euros of new "money"!! :D An that is just two iterations - it contnues, it goes on, and on, always multiply with 100. The bank ahnds out a credit: 1% of it only it has to store at the ECB as a safety.

The fractional reserve banking system is one of Satan's most loved toys to ruin the world. Itds a snowball system, and looks harmless only at the very very early beginning. But it isn', it is the devil'S masterplan to crush the economy.

This all cannot end well, it is impossible. Main guilty actor: the state and its politicians, and the caste of alchemistic "economists". They are the cyanid of this world.

Skybird

07-17-17, 05:58 AM

Don't get gotcha'ed! This article is about the horrific dangers posed by DHMO, a chemical substance of great risks:

LINK (http://www.stupidedia.org/stupi/DHMO)

Quite... revealing...

Catfish

07-19-17, 02:27 PM

i see it like money as well as capitalism (as we call it) is becoming.. not obsolete, but changing in meaning and appearance. Full employment is a thing of the past, enough machines and devices becoming capable of doing the simple stuff. So we have to think of alternate models of how to live.

ikalugin

07-19-17, 03:18 PM

Or the people who do not have capital would just starve and die.

Skybird

07-19-17, 03:42 PM

"Money" tokens are so much older than capitalism.

You cannot have complex, advanced development and production chains, without money. No mass production wihtout complex production chains. This is what makes things cheap so that more and more people can afford them. No mass production - no supplying of 8, 9, 10 and more billion people.

An indispensable tool money is. Juist a tool, no worth in itself. But an indispensble tool. And that si what makes it precious. You cannot eat gold, yes. But you can eat what gold can buy, can help to produce, can help to conserve and keep cold to prevent it from rotting. No complex production lines - no refrigerators developed in the first.

Without money, our specialisation would have stopped on a low level, so that some of us still would pick coconuts, and the others would still catch fish, and sometimes we would barter fish for coconuts and coconuts for fish. Feeding and clothing billions this way? Forget it.

Unconditional basic income? There ain't no such thing as a free lunch. Somebody pays for it - just not the one eating it.

August

07-19-17, 04:21 PM

Interesting article in the WSJ regarding German energy.

I'd be interested in getting our German forum members opinion on the accuracy of the claims it makes.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/germany-should-say-danke-for-u-s-oil-1500326174

Skybird

07-19-17, 05:31 PM

The German energy system has been turned into a mess indeed.

Indeed it is becoming the more expensive for the end consumer the more renewable electricity is produced. The market logic that something should become the cheaper the more of it gets produced at the lower costs, has been intentionally reversed.

The evil at work here, are subventions of several kinds. Subventions that were so terribly misused and misunderstood that they also helped to directly finance the Chinese solar panel industry - that used this invitation and financial support from the German tax payer to now having crushed the German solar panel industry - just a couple of years ago global market leader! - completely: the last German panel producer has gone bancrupt just some weeks ago.

Laugh at us, August. You would be right to do so.

However, we feel so great about it. We once again demonstrated our good intentions. That si what counts. Not effective deeds, but to have it meant well. That well-meaning excuses every failure.

Regarding emissions, the more it becomes obvious that we cannot meet our timetables and keystone criterions, the higher we push up the limits, denying the truth to ourselves.

I have said it many times before, and I stick to it: the Germans are hysterical romantics. Their sense for reality is close to nil. They pay much money for even just an empty box if only you print "eco" or "bio" on it.

The climate goals we set also serve as a stimulus plan for certain branches, cladding for example., and these branches lobby incredibly hard for their wanted profit raises. We clad buildings not to save energy in net efect, we clad buildings to save jobs in the cladding industry. The more we lag behind our intentions, the more bitterly the state and the authorities move to increase them even more, and to enforce them even more. Paying victims for this, may it be house cladding or electricty bills, are the people. Cladding does not work as claimed, the energy savings are far below the rosy promises example calculations, and mostly do not even compensate for the costs of cladding (I know it from first hand, from several affected people who bought private housing. Their energy savings are almost non-existent, they would need several decades to compensate for even the costs of cladding). Plus the damages to the houses themselves from moisture not escaping, rotting, lacking air circulation through the wall - houses must breath... - , fungi infection and algas etc. Plus the costs for dumping these cladding materials after a couple of years - and replacing them once again! Most used cladding materials are toxic waste. Greetings to the Greens. And then the visual ruining of house facades, especially older houses like today they are no longer build.

On oil, that is evil, of course.

Mind you, after Fukushima it was not the affected - the Japanese - moving first -, but most victimised and endangered felt the Germans on the other side of the planet - merkel was applauded for declaring Germany's opting out of nuclear energy within just - well, were it even weeks after the flooding? Merkel moved incredibly fast to declare the end of German nuclear technology expertise (some of the best in the world...). Now we are surrounded by old vintage nuclear plants in other countries who are older and more dangerous than ours were, and we even must order and pay for their power at times. The Constitutional High Court btw meanwhile has declared that policy and resulting laws for illegal meanwhile. which means the companies will be paid horrendous compensations - once again at the cost of the people. And some of our neighbouring countires complain that becasue Germany at times can no longer serve its energy demand by itself since it switched off nuclear plants, and orders energy from its neighbours, in these states the number of blackouts have increased. Long live the continental planned economy!

There are so many examples that could make you wanting to pull your hairs out.

Nothing wrong in investing into getting away from fossile fuel, don'T get me wrong. But the timetables we set up and the costs we accept to push them, are insane and extremely self-damaging. We are under the spell of the - completely arbitrary - 2.0°C threat. And if someobdy says we cannot keep it anyway - we reduce the value even more instead of taking a breath and rethinking what we are doing there.

Hysterical romantics. It explains German history since the era of the enlightenment - which in Germany was not really taking place, what Germany had instead became known as the era of Deutsche Romantik. Lets feel the world, the life, the air, the goodness, the idea! Rationally assessing things is too hard-headed and too cold-hearted for us.

And yes, like all of Europe, Germany as well benefits form the drop in oil prices caused by American fracking. Fracking also seems to have broken the OPEC cartel's dominant position. We hate oil, its our collective civil duty to do so. But we depend on it, still.

---

The point is I can recall times when the German powergrid was the most stable in europe, no other European state had so low blackout rates as Germany (cannot recall I ever had one, except one extremly cold winter when the electricity pylons broke), and energy supply was absolutely safe. Blackouts simply did not happen. Never. Its just one and a half decade ago or so... Today our green energy ambitions get beefed up by electricty supplies from risky and old nuclear reactors in France, Belgium and Eastern Europe... But we hide that from ourselves and keep up the illusions!

Catfish

07-20-17, 05:50 AM

Germany has not "failed" to reduce CO emissions as written in this article, this is simply not true. Some of the attempted target numbers are almost impossible to reach now, but moving the emissions to power plants instead of using single internal combustion engines in cars, only shifts the emissions elsewhere. Also, conduction loss. Using your electrical car in the city means polluting the environment a hundred miles away instead. Nothing gained, overall.

Becoming independent of oil is a long-term task, but it has to be done at some point. Nice to have cheaper oil now for a while, but apart from burning our reserves and setting free the CO that has been hidden from decay for billions of years (providing us with free O2 in the atmosphere), the reserves will be depleted at some point. We can of course sit down and wait for it to happen, and then run around like headless chicken with no plan in the drawer, but my ideal would be to get away from oil long before this happens. Oil is too valuable to be burnt, if you think of plastics and elastomeres.
Cheap oil will destroy a few new energy companies, and prolong the process of independence, but it will be done.

Switching over to electricity immediately right now is nonsense, and will not be done, for obvious reasons (apart from the automobile lobby's influence).
Lots of problems, some can already be overcome, but there's more to happen in the near future, technology-wise. There are lots of new high tech branches developing, and they have begun pushing the economy. Our "weakness" is our strength.

The thing is if you do not think or dream about things, you will not be able to invent, and go forward.

Skybird

07-20-17, 08:55 AM

Since the attempted "coup" in turkey last year (of which i still think it was self-arranged by Erdoghan to create an alibi for his card blanche policy afterwards), 22 people with German passports have been arrested in Turkey on grounds of highly dubious, arbitrary charges, and without diplomats given them any access as demanded by internatonal laws and treaties.

As is being reported by the Bild Zeitung today, last month the great sultan offered the German foreign politics toyboy Sigmar Gabriel to exchange one imprisoned German journalist - in captivity without charges since half a year and without diplomats being allowed to see him - for two Turkish general who fled from Erdoghan to Germany and asked for poltical asylum.

Its official now: the German prisoners are hostages. Plain and simple. Erdoghan acts like just any little street gangster would.

The latest low in relations has b een marked by the Turks now prohibiting Germans to visit their soldiers on the airbase at Konya. The Germans already had withdrawn their recce Tornados from Incirlik airbase, now the Turks ban them from seeing their AWAYS specialists based at Konya.

Recent events and new arrests of a German come together with Turkish accusations of German companies supporting terrorism (Gülen, that is).

The Germans now mull a sharpening of travel warnings for Turkey, and say that protection of investments in and travels to Turkey can no loner be taken as granted. This hits Erdoghan at his most vulnerable point: economy, and money. It also seems to be possible that the Germans will enforce a decision in NATO to take a tougher stand on Turkey. Germany sends one third of the specialists and crews of all of NATO'S Awacs platform, not just in Turkey. If the Germans fall out of that personell plan, it will not be a shosatopper for NATO'S revcce capabilities, but it will create waves and the need to adapt to the sudden loss of quaolified perosnell. It seems, the German patience with Turkey is slowly coming to an end. Gabriel also announced that state guarantees by the the German state for investments in Turkey ("Hermes") will be "reconsidered".

However, Merkel only slightly sharpened her words. Slightly. Not to damage any precious sentiments. She leaves it to Gabriel (SPD) to do the dirty part of the work. After the coming elections (which now by no doubt she will win once again) she then can go back to business as usual with Erdoghan, and tell him it was not her CDU party, but the SPD that tried to smear him.

Personally, I think the German sshould leave Turkey completely, and now. No German crews for AWACs planes left in Konya. Of course that long-since fogotten Patriot battery to protect poor Erdoghan from Syrian air raids also have to be pulled out. I would like to see a general travel warning for Turkey, and a cancellation of airflights from and to Turkey by German and Turkish carriers. This maybe will hit some of Erdoghans enemies as well - but after all it was the Turkish population voting him into office, and it is the Turkish people to be held respoinsible for repairj ng the mess then. Creatging economic unrest and dissatisfaction is the biggest thgreat for Erdoghan's rule, maybe. If for no other reason than that there is no other realistic option left anyway. If the Turks are not willing to raise in riots and get rid of the AKP, then they must no longer be our concern, but can go to hell.

Catfish

07-20-17, 09:13 AM

^ raised that subject before, which is why i was so enthusiastic by Theresa May's 42 billion pound weapons deal with Erdoghan [/sarcasm]

We cannot afford to do what we want while lots of Germans are being held hostage by Erdoghan. Let diplomacy do its thing, and deal with that later.

Then, millions of Turks living in Germany.. :hmmm:

Jimbuna

07-20-17, 09:33 AM

One quick and potentially quite effective non-military action would be to stop tourism in Turkey from German nationals.

ikalugin

07-20-17, 09:39 AM

Outright or how we did it?

Skybird

07-20-17, 10:32 AM

We cannot afford to do what we want while lots of Germans are being held hostage by Erdoghan. Let diplomacy do its thing, and deal with that later.
Diplomacy?

Then, millions of Turks living in Germany.. :hmmm:They can fly via other carriers than Turkish and Geman ones. And lets not forget, mayn of them, probbaly a majoirty, supports Erdoghan. And integration is a failure with the majority of them for sure.

Obviously, tourism is the archilles heel where to strike back. Then the "Hermes-Bürgschaften" by which the state provides guarantees and securities for investments in Turkey done by German companies. Then, stopping cooperation with - if not even prohibiting - DITIB.

Last week it became reported that the Turkish intelligence agency operate so aggressively in Germany that Turkey is the only "Allied" state that has the MAD and the BND operating a special counter-intelligence service just trying to fight off the Turkish intrusions and operation in Germany. These aim at persecuting Turkish exiles critical of Erdoghan, Gülen, and trying to infiltrate the office for the protection of the constitution. Last, we must send back all Imams sent from Turkey when they try to cross the border, and we have to send out all that already are here. Most of them do not even speak one word of German!! Turkey was allwoed to get extremely far-reahcing special rioghts and ciodntions inside GeGermany. These have to come to an end. Erdoghan sees German visitors in Turkey as potential hostages, obviously, and Germany as an Osman province already at his disposal.

So stop investing there. Stop making holiday there. Stop tolerating Turkish state influence in Germany.

Heck, my first voyage to Turkey was in the early nineties, with a Belgian crew back then. Already then I was alarmed and knew that this German-Turkish relation would end nasty sooner or later, and that conservatism would come back to Turkey. Back then, the name Eroghan was on nobody's note block - and still I felt the mess coming. The ammount of latent racism and nationalistic haughtiness to be found in the areas outside the tourist metropole,s was alarming already back then. From all Muslim countries I ever have been to, sometime staying quite long, Turkey has been not the most dangeorus but the most unpleasant experience. The most dangerous in those years, was Algeria. The most pleasant - and surprising and diverse - experience, was Iran: very mixed, but among the to be expected dark things so many good experiences as well. Its a different people there.

Skybird

07-20-17, 10:45 AM

Outright or how we did it?
:D If I can trust the media, German tourists have significantly dropped Turkey, but Russians have almost completely skipped it, or not?

ikalugin

07-20-17, 12:59 PM

I meant in terms of the state regulation, ie Russian State didn't ban travel to Turkey, but banned charter flights (you could still use regaular sheduled ones) and tourist company packages (you could still book the hotell and buy tickets yourself).

But I think the effect of regulation would depend on the market structure.

Skybird

07-22-17, 06:03 AM

I put this here, since it is in German, but it deals with why the Western military made a terrible mistake to not take into account the overwhelming power of demographics when assessing and dealing with the wars in Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, since the 70s. Rise and increase in powers of the militias still are a secret for many Wetswern analysts, it seems. It is no secret at all, but a result of tunnel viewing.

Link: 50 years of war in Iraq would not be a surprise at all (http://www.achgut.com/artikel/irak_ein_fuenfzigjaehriger_krieg_waere_keine_berra schung)

Demographics - that is a huge nuclear bomb without needing to have a nuclear bomb in it to be of devastating, overwhelming power.

Skybird

07-23-17, 06:42 PM

It started as the Dieselgate for VW in the US over one year ago. And since then, it has become worse and worse and worse.

http://www.dw.com/en/new-report-massive-collusion-amongst-german-automakers/a-39793521

In no other industrialised nation, car making is of that financial and economic paramount importance, than in Germany. The powerhouse Germany is unthinkable without the car making sector.

And these traitors ruined it, and continue to cheat and lie, to delay and to obscure. This is not just a costly damage to Germany'S reputation and image - it simply is outright dangerous, since the mess has some potential to send the whole German economy into a steep dive. It simply is very dangerous on an existential level.

In the past I repeatedly said I disagree with the characterisation of Germany as an economically powerful nation. Due to its high dependence on exports, to me it is terribly vulnerable. And that it is focussed to so far-reaching degrees on just one single industrial branch, is another major vulnerability. Not chemistry and not machine building are as important for the social and financial basis in Germany, than car making and all its sub-contractor networks are. Additionally the car makers heavily depend on these sub contractors who deliver parts to the various car systems - of all brands. Competences and expertise has been outsourced that way, and now would cost many years and heavy monetarian investments to regain - and years of time . One small company dropout some months ago sent the factories into a standstill and workers back home for several days.

Dangerous. Some giant is standing on feet made of clay here.

Additionally, the EU and France want to sharpen regulations for car makers even more, with conditions that strengthen French car makers and weaken German ones, due to the different design philosophies.

Really, dangerous. German politics try to remain remarkably silent over the issues. It touches industrial Germany's life arteria.

Catfish

07-24-17, 02:35 AM

Yes tragic, who would have ever thought the automobile industry could be lying. After the horse dealers, gold rush, oil industry and all that.

All do it. Also BMW, Peugeot, Fiat, GM (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/25/business/energy-environment/general-motors-diesel-emissions-lawsuit.html).

I'm sure all others do it, too. Just wait a bit... :03:

Schroeder

07-24-17, 03:25 AM

One quick and potentially quite effective non-military action would be to stop tourism in Turkey from German nationals.
Forget it. Turkey is cheap and why would I care for democracy and human rights..../sarcasm.
Sad but it's true with a lot of German tourists.:down:

Skybird

07-24-17, 06:13 AM

Fact is, Schroeder, that there was a decline of over 40% last year in German tourist numbers, and this year it promises to be even more. Many hotels were not booked to even just 25%.

The question is whether it remains like this over the years. It would create immense inner pressure for Erdoghanistan. Which I want.

Russians also are very important for Turkish tourism industry. Last year, the numbers of Russian tourists dropped by over 90%.andrd warning there is now.

I think there should be a full, formal travel warning instead the lower standard formulation there is in place now.

I also think that states should be freed of legal/diplomatic responsibilities for taking care of private tourists travelling to places for which formal travel warnings exist, and then get into trouble there for reasons the travel wanrings mentioned. Everybody has the right to be stupid, but he has no right to demand that others must come to his rescue when he acts intentionally stupid. The stupidity of the few should not make the many vulnerable for blackmailing.

Skybird

07-24-17, 07:04 AM

Hm, it seems to be the Russians already coming back. They are the second biggest tourist group after the Germans. German tourists still stay away, numbers decline.

http://www.dw.com/en/as-german-spat-deepens-turkey-draws-tourists-from-elsewhere/a-39813794

Not that I think Erdoghan cares at all as long as his pockets fill up. This German article says since last year he has confiscated private property worth 60 billion Euros. Reminds me of the confiscation of Jewish wealth by the Nazi regime.

http://www.huffingtonpost.de/celal-findik/wir-werden-beraubt-1-jahr_b_17558352.html?utm_hp_ref=germany

ikalugin

07-24-17, 07:05 AM

http://carnegieeurope.eu/strategiceurope/71590
mmmm libruls mmmm

Schroeder

07-24-17, 07:14 AM

Jimbuna

07-24-17, 09:13 AM

Forget it. Turkey is cheap and why would I care for democracy and human rights..../sarcasm.
Sad but it's true with a lot of German tourists.:down:

Probably the same with Brits and most other western countries :yep:

Skybird

07-24-17, 09:40 AM

http://carnegieeurope.eu/strategiceurope/71590
mmmm libruls mmmm

Yes, a typical evasion strategy project. The plan is to compensate for lacking German personell to hold crew and troop levels even at their current levels by letting people from other nations manning the platforms and doing the fight. I mean the non-fight, and with platforms not being there. Nothing against the concept of a German foreign legion. This project is that not.

I alkso think it will not work, becasue what this plan wants to try on international level, alreacy has been tried in Germany on national level: the clustering and equipm ent sharing thing, that is. It is a disaster, and resulted in budget cuts leading to a threatneing lack of equipment on all levels and the inability to properly all troops according to their total strength of paper. Two soldiers share one rifle, so to speak.

Anyway, I see a huge lack of fighting willingness in the West, slightl yless extreme in states like Britain, the US, maybe France, but generally very high in the remainign Western states, so that I think it doe snot matter that much anyway. See the book I recommended in the thread "Pussycats", it illustrates perfectly the core of the problemn. And that problem will not be solved at all by more technology research, raises in defence budgets, and clever plans. Its a mentality problem, a cultural problem.

And I stick to it what I said before on some occaisons. I see no reason in installing parallel military structures and "doubling" the costs, when there already is one military defence conception/structure: NATO. If states underfound their commitment to NAOT, why does one want to assume that suddenly they invest money into defence that the save regarding NATO, just becasue they now run a second defence structre parallel to the first? Better idea is to boost the spending within the NATO framework, and national defence budgets in general , and by that also riasing claim for less American influence in NATO (at the cost of more European responsibility).

Lets face it, this new plan is just Germany dancing pirouettes aroudn the simple fact that Gertmans are not willing to join the armed forces in sufficient numberts. Thats imple the real reason is. Now we expect the people from other states to fill the gaps.

The last big wars and military adventures by Wetsern militaries, all had been handed away, were turned into defeats and strategic losses, especially Iraq and Afghanistan. The West excel in the paradoxy ofg being tehcnically hopelessly superior - and loosing its military interventions with sleepwalking security. As I said: the problem lies in the field of culture, mentlaity, a general softening of mind and attitude, a creeping feminization of the male culture (by now not that creeping at all anymore, but disturbingly open and brutal already). Give a pussycat a hightech weapon, and what you get is not a warrior by magical transformation, but just a pussycat with - well, with a hightech weapon. The mindset is the decisive difference, also and especially on the political level.

And that is the devil of it.

Skybird

07-24-17, 09:46 AM

From an economic point of view, dual military structures make no sense to me. I would accept the idea of forming purely european structures only if we save ourselves from further keeping NATO alive. Lets dismantle NATO then, and fulfill Moscow's wet dream of getting the US out of its European engagement. If it is about keeping the US, then the answer is NATO. And NATO alone, and fully supported even more, but with reduced US political command influence in it. To justify that demand, Europe has to engage itself much more in NATO.

What the Germans imagine now, imo only is managing the deficits without needing to invest themselves too much. I seriously doubt that a Russia suddenly going into amok mode would be very impressed, not to mention: deterred. Brute force and unscrupulous use of it have their own convincing value, not easy to be impressed by European piety and sensible concerns. These structures the Germans envision: to me they look too dependent, too fragile, too unfit to survive the brutality and losses of a real war. Its a nice construction for policing, maybe. Not for warring.

More troops, and more equipment. Rotating equipment amongst units is not creating additional strength. Worse: you have no reserves to compensate for losses in man and material, in case of fighting breaking out.

It reminds me a bit of attempts on how to tackle the financial crisis by trying to hand out more credits.

ikalugin

07-24-17, 12:41 PM

I think the core problems for armed forces of European nation-states are:
- limited budgets. (need for social spending, etc)
- low purchasing power. (high wages, expensive arms)
- manpower shortages. (few people willing to serve per wage offered)

This cooperation model adresses them, however it creates problems:
- lack of unity of command. (in wartime this whole structure must act as one)
and/or
- transfer of soverenity to a third party. (nation-states would not be able to mount defense independently or to operate out of area)

Note that the "NATO" model also creates the very same problems, the difference is that soverenity is transfered to US rather than a European nation-state or organisation of European nation-states.

The way the cooperation model can be improved, in my opinion, is by adressing it's problems - by forcing unity of command, yet creating a common democratic authority behind that unity of command.

mapuc

07-24-17, 03:02 PM

Or companies taking advantage in a contract with the government-know this from my own life and experience-A building company wrote a contract with the Danish government on a construction the added some extra to the prices and talked the politicians down-Just like a saleman does with an ordinary person.

Remember a politician is an ordinary person who have been elected in an election and are susceptible as any one else-when some salemen start talking warmly about the product.

Markus

Skybird

07-25-17, 04:37 AM

Lawyers now publish explicit instruction on how one could fire an employee who does good work but shows not sufficient enthusiasm for uncontrolled migration or expresses critical arguments against Islam. How to fire him even if by the rules of the labour law he cannot be fired. And such advice gets printed not in some obscure place, but in Germany's equivalent to the Times - the FAZ.

http://www.achgut.com/artikel/faz-ratgeber_wie_man_andersdenkende_rausschmeisst

Its heavy rainig outside. Earlier this day I stumbled over another of Kent Rogoff outrageous pamphlets against cash money. The display of such shamelessness and lack of any embarassment when demanding the committing of crime and plundering and robbery (negative interests, and heavy taxing) in all frankness and totally open in wording, is stunning and to me a sign for what a psychopathic character this clueless, incompetent imposter has. He knows nothing about the nature of money, and its meaning, he is nothing but an superstitious alchemist with the mindeset of unscrupulous gangster. And he wants the state to raise debts as it wants, and wants the state to own citizens like property. Mass lifestock. I hope he drops dead right this second.

And minute before that I saw that Germany now has an internet pillory to denounce people who raise arguments against or say critical things of the gay-lesbian-tentthousandgenders-sciencemeansnothing-ideologyisall-movement, with the eoffender's name, if available adress, telephone number, and a explcit descritpion of his offences, collected and reported with the cold-blooded pedantery of a Nazi or Stasi officer.

On days like this, when I get such an overdose of destructionism, stupidity and evil in such short ammount of time, I more and more often just lose any joy and motivation to live any longer. Its so hopeless, and I see no chance for a bettering. The people today - they simply drive me mad, and desperate. The ones for doing things, and the others for allowing the first to continue.

What can men do against such reckless hate? When I was younger, I simply did not get prepared for bearing such amounts of madness. When I run out of luck, I may finish my life in a reeducation camp, or a prison, or see myself getting ruined by a campaign and all my saved resources stolen, excused by ideology and fanatical selfrightousness. Serious. I will not allow to let it happen, if that danger becomes real. If illness does not relieve me in time, my own will will.

ikalugin

07-25-17, 06:08 AM

You may be to old to vote with your strength of arms, but you may still vote with your legs, especially if your financial status allows it.

Suicide, while an option, should be, in my opinion, considered last. If you elect it I would suggest variable drop method.

Skybird

07-25-17, 12:31 PM

He who fully owns his last hour, does not fear the coming minutes.

Or as you say in Russia: whose fate it is to get hanged one day, cannot drown.

Death is not to be feared. Its inevitable, the only certainty in our life that we can trust. Fearing it, is a waste. Fearing we should those who want to own us between now and then, who want to force us to live for their profiteering and the claims they raise for us.

Skybird

07-28-17, 11:35 AM

"Ze Cartel". A novel vrom Thomas Klänzie.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/the-cartel-collusion-between-germany-s-biggest-carmakers-a-1159471.html

Skybird

07-30-17, 05:01 PM

Painful insights into the failure of the state-conception.

IN GERMAN.

https://deutscherarbeitgeberverband.de/aktuelles/2016/2016_12_19_dav_aktuelles_staatsversagen.html

Skybird

08-01-17, 09:00 AM

Almost every fourth person living in Germany has a migration background now (and that counts not in-Germany-born offsprings from migrant families). It's 22.5%. The mass migration waves of the past 2 years have had a huge impact.

http://www.dw.com/en/germany-sees-record-number-of-people-with-immigrant-background/a-39917868

Merkel still completely rejects to fulfill her legal and constitutional duty to secure Germany's borders and to protect its integrity. These duties are not open for discussion, by the law. She simply keeps on breaking the laws nevertheless, like she has broken them many times before, and she claism sentimental reasons, no legal or rational ones. She knows it, and she does not care. And still - forecasters give her claqueurs-party and either the Greens or the FDP as a coalition partner a 49% vote for parliament - enough to secure a majority by seats.

Obsequium amicus, veritas odium parit - obsequiousness brings us friends, the truth brings forth enemies.

Skybird

08-02-17, 05:03 AM

Yesterday, a plane filled with over 70 Afghans whose asylum requests had been rejected, was meant to fly them back. 49 of them are sentenced rapists and child abusers. At the last minute the plane was stopped from rolling on the runway, and all "clients" were moved back on German soil again.

Today a known "Gefährder" should have been aboard a plane getting rid of him. In the last minute a sentence by the European Court for Human Rights has stopped that, and he was brought back on German soil.

We appreciate our racists, our rapists, our mass murderers in spe, our scum from other places, our loosers that got spit out by their original home societies becasue they are what they are. We love them, we want more of them, and we cannot get ebough of them. Send us more. They will enrich our culture and add to our diversity. We become something better and bigger, thanks to them.

Lets show the world how good we are. We are no Nazis anymore, really!

We became idiots instead.

Jimbuna

08-02-17, 06:06 AM

I always thought the UK was the 'begging bowl' of Europe and much of the world but it would appear we are now facing stiffer competition.

Skybird

08-02-17, 07:35 AM

The German social ministry offered its yearly report for 2016 today. Although the unemployment rate has slightly dropped, state spendings for "Soziales" have raised to a new record high of almost 30% of the gross domestic product GDP. Cost drivers were especially pensions again, and health care.

Lets not be satisfied so easily! Records are meant to get broken! Until 2021, the ministry expects the spendings to raise beyonds 1.1 trillion. Whether or not the mass migration effects have already been included in that, the ministry refused to say.

Germany buys its economic boom buy having turned into an extreme low-wage country for many labour branches. This adds to the negative effects of the demographic change and overaging of the population.

What confuses me is that the SPD.led ministry gives the impresison that raising spneidngs on social things qulifies the state and economy for the more enthusiams the more money gets spend. What it really means is that the social fundament and the intrinsic value of labour is eroding. The latter is partly wanted by employers who have a principal interest in high levels of unemployment (that allows to dum wages: supply and demand for working power), and the devaluation effects of money and the various formats in which the state conserves financial values and assets for later use (inflation in the wider sense of it).

Interesting it gets when the today'S low-wagers wil reach pension age. They will never have had the chance to save reserves, and will impact heavily on the social spendings statistics.

Things are terribly off balance, due to monopolism and socialism both hacking away at the same fundaments, coming from two opposite directions. The bill will not be evaded, it gets only delayed - at the price of mounting even more costs.

ikalugin

08-10-17, 05:13 PM

let me fuel the fires:
https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/turkish-newspaper-claims-country-conquer-germany-france-days/

Skybird

08-11-17, 03:22 AM

It might not be just three days, but still, indeed the willingness to defend against a militant aggressor is extremely low in Germany. Martin van Crefeld wrote a stunning tribute to the performance and ability of the Wehrmacht ("Firepower", a comparison of US and German army management and efficiency in WWII), but for the Bundeswehr as it stands today he has nothing but mockery. And I think rightly so. I do not take the Germans serious as a warrying faction, too. The problems are not just lacking materiual and low troop levels, but psychological attiotudes, feminization, the lack of a warrior's ethos. Its a Kindergarten. I know people serving or having served personally. They said already ten years ago that morale is at an alltime low. It has only become worse since then. The feminist textbook-nanny Ursual von der Leyen who ridicules the army by being the defence ministress, makes things only worse.

Jimbuna

08-11-17, 09:50 AM

I certainly wouldn't include the UK armed forces (what little remains) in that equation but should Corbyn ever become PM then I would start to reconsider.

Skybird

08-11-17, 02:12 PM

I certainly wouldn't include the UK armed forces (what little remains) in that equation but should Corbyn ever become PM then I would start to reconsider.
How's their numbers doing lately? ;) 114 thousand active sounds not as if you could sustain a war in which you suffer losses in men/women/gender-xyz, and material.

Bundeswehr: 178 thousand active.

An army that has no reserves, cannot persist in a lasting war against an enemy whose ablities meet you on same eye level.

ikalugin

08-12-17, 12:18 AM

The problem is that while Bundeswehr can provide a weak mechanized corps, UK is going to be limited to one mechanized division.

Jimbuna

08-12-17, 07:39 AM

How's their numbers doing lately? ;) 114 thousand active sounds not as if you could sustain a war in which you suffer losses in men/women/gender-xyz, and material.

Bundeswehr: 178 thousand active.

An army that has no reserves, cannot persist in a lasting war against an enemy whose ablities meet you on same eye level.

There is always the nuclear deterrent to fall back on should all be lost, God forbid that option should ever be chosen though.

I discussed this thread with a friend who is dual citizen Brit/Turkish with strong family ties in his original homeland and tbh he was greatly amused and suggested the government minister who made the statement obviously chose not to mention the fact that a great number of the army are conscripts who have had very little training and are equipped with mostly obsolete equipment.

Skybird

08-12-17, 08:51 AM

The fighting spirit or ,motivational attiotude amongst German soldiers is not that warrior-like as well. I sometimes mocked the Germans as aid workers who are armed for self defence and who join the armed forces to build schools, repair bridges and drill water holes in the third world, but there is some truth in that description. But that is not for the army, that is for the freedom corps, third world aid organisations, or anything. The German army of today does not see its primary role in fighting, and being a warrior is not what drives recruits to volunteer for the armed forces, many, if not most of them.

You know this funny movie, "300". There is this scene where the few Spartans meet other (more) Greeks, and when the Greeks ask why there are only so few of them Spartans, the king asks them in return what their profession is. The one says his profession is being a philosopher, the second says his profession is to farm the land, and so on. The king asks his own few men then what their profession is, and they shout uni sono "to kill, to kill, to kill!" The king smiles and tells the other Greek's group leader that it seems he has more warriors in place than the Greeks.

Just a movie, and a funny scene, but there is some truth in it. The motivation and soldier's spirit in western armies has been eroded by feminism, political correctness, and an attitude that puts rights over duties. This costs not only a lot of money, but leads to a reduction in efficiency of combat units with females in them, with injury rates amongst females being several times as high as amongst male soldiers, and de facto a privileged status of female soldiers, much to the - by order hidden - contempt of their male colleagues. The problem here is that the enemies we are up against, do not care for gender equality and political correctness. A German army that delays the delivery of its new infantry fighting vehicle due to riding in it may harm the forewater of pregnant female soldiers, has a very serious problem, I would say, and does not give me the impression of being mentally well-prepared for the brutality that war means, or having the needed focus and priorities. It is symptomatic that Ursual von der Leyen wants to meet the challenge of deterring or containing Russian aggression by making the barracks suitiable for children and single mothers, babbels of plans and ressources and intentions, demands German soldiers in battle to collect their shells and separate their garbage and the artillery shall use only biodegradable ammunitions. The Swedish defence ministress wants to counter Putin'S "macho-militarism" with a "feminstic foreign policy" and examplary ressource management. In America, a very capable military thinker like Gen. Patreus gets fired - and many other officers as well - because he maintains a relation with a woman that he knew already since almost 30 years. Isnt that his private stuff? We have a dramatic increase of the PTS industry, that declares more and more soldiers who are not stressed or traumatized at all, as affected by PTS, turning them into patients needing their professional - and costly - expertise, one even wanted to convince the Serbian forces, after the war in the nineties when they got a beating by NATO air power and had to endure quite some shelling, that they all suffered from PTS where the Serbian statistics showed that almost none of their forces suffered from that at all. There are as many things working to the negative, the inner eroding of combat spirit, the weakening of the Wetsern armies, that I cannot list them all in detail here. But really: the eroding fighting spirit, the soldier'S mental attitude, the civil disgust for what such men excel in, their ridiculing, and demanding them to behave in a more feminised, gender-correct, poltically correct way - all this takes away from the purprose of why armed forces are to be maintained in the first.

And this is why the Western armies since WWII have lost most of the military campaigns they ran, despite their technological superiority, against enemies with inferior equipment. The combat spirit leaves more and more to be desired. One cannot even get done with a loose band of lightly armed sheep shepards in the ME whose only advantage is that they are immune to PTS after they committed another massacre or cut off somebody's head. Instead the Germans in afghanistan at least in the past had a ROE forbidding them to shoot at the enmy when he started to withdraw. For heavens sake, have we all lost our senses?

George Orewell wrote: "We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm."

Once political correctness, gender-ideology, sexual bigottery, feminism, CO2-footprinting, and self-paralysing over all the worries and miseries in the world, are done with the armed forces, not many of these rough men will still be there, willing to serve as our guardians. And then help us God. There is a reason why the west has lost most major wars since WW2, and even has turned military victories by political means into wanted strategic defeats.

Skybird

08-16-17, 04:13 PM

http://www.dw.com/en/airlines-swoop-in-on-insolvent-air-berlin/a-40111787

Air Berlin is dead.

In parts this is due to mismanagement of a megalomaniac leadership, but in parts also due to the state failure regarding the failed airport Brandenburg BER, which should have entered service already 2012, but already then would have been too small, and which was planned for by Air Berlin to become the new logistic centre of its traffic grid.

Its not the first casualty the failed airport has caused, but its the so far the biggest. The politicians now say optimistically that it will open late 2018. Non-involved external business professionals say not before 2020 - if ever. Growing numbers say indeed that whole thing needs to get levelled and rebuild from scratch.

Germany 2017 - land of perfectionism, high quality engineering and superior administration and organisation. Echoes from the past, not more.

Skybird

09-23-17, 11:53 AM

The subjects are to legitimize the syndicate once again tomorrow. It is expected that the old will be the new godfather, hm, godmother as well.

The walking dead will stand in line tomorrow.

Germans,
do not legitimize gangster-parasites that you know will fail you, betray you, cheat you, lie to you, and plunder you. You see them doing it since decades, why do you think this time it will be different? You owe it to yourself to say No to them. If you legitimize them while knowing all this about them, you have no right afterwards to complain that they fail you, betray you, cheat you, and plunder you. You legitimized them to do so by voting them into office once again, so then shut the hell up for the coming next years: for you only got what you have given your permission to be done to you. Or what is your reason to assume that this time they will mean it honest and well?

Criticizing you only can if you have denied them. Not if you have legitimized them to do what you criticize them for.

Chuck U F4rley

09-23-17, 12:38 PM

So, I leave for a few years and when i come back this Skybird fellow I was reading posts from while I was lurking all those years ago is still spouting nonsense. What are you up to these days? Founding member of Münster's AFD chapter? *g*

Never mind, I'll see myself out. See ya in a few years...

Gorpet

09-23-17, 01:11 PM

Good bye, Chuck :Kaleun_Salute:

daft

09-23-17, 01:39 PM

I always thought the UK was the 'begging bowl' of Europe and much of the world but it would appear we are now facing stiffer competition.

You should see Sweden...

Skybird

09-23-17, 01:51 PM

Do not think in terms of parties. Thats not what it is about. They want you to legitimise their system by which they establish their powers over you. And that is done by you already accepting to play by their rules of having elections, and you casting your voter - as if you would have any real choices there. You have none. Whether you vote for SPD, CDU or AfD or Greens - it means nothing. They are all the same antisocial parasites.

The existence of their mere caste is at the root of the problem. The servility of the subjects accepting to be commanded and plundered by them is at the root of the problem. The damn trust in state and politics is at the root of the problem. The rejection to learn the lessons from the past legislation periods is at the root of the problem. To repeat the same mistake of trusting the same system producing time and again the same kind of "politicians" is at the root of the problem. This is the reason why everybody of them tells you you should go voting, even if you have no clue of anything, have no competence whatever to assess complex issues like money and economy.

They let any clueless idiot cast his vote and tell him how importan he then should feel. That should tell you what your vote is worth in the real meaning of things!

If your voting choice would mean anything, they would not let you vote!

The party label you mark on the ballot, is irrelevant. That you give legitimation to the ruleset itself - that is what they want you to do. Their ruleset, by which they live, male their living, base their power on, form their life's plan on, claim powers and special rights for themselves, demands you to follow their commands.

You voters - you are like cattle being lead around by that ring through your nose. That is what you call your "freedom".

Victims and intended victims should deny to give the perpetrators moral alibis for their encroachments. Refuse to morally legitimate their crime. Don't vote. Claim back your self-responsibility and freedom. They are your natural birth right. Nobody can give them to you, for they have been with you frorm all beginning on. The question is only whether your allow others to withhold them from you, or not.

STEED

09-23-17, 07:01 PM

I hear Skybird is looking forward to another fours yeas of Merkel. :03:

Jimbuna

09-24-17, 05:42 AM

If I was a gambling man I'd put my money on Merkel but I doubt any bookmaker would lay me odds.

STEED

09-24-17, 12:24 PM

Germany election: Merkel wins fourth term, exit polls sayhttp://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41376577

Pain killers for Skybird after a few hours of this...:damn:

Skybird

09-24-17, 12:45 PM

After 35064 hours, to be precise.

Both CDU and SPD suffer serious losses, AfD is third strongest party. Merkel now can only form a coalition with the jocular so called Free Liberals and the Greens (a three party coalition called "Jamaika" over here), since the SPD said it does no longer want to get strangled in a coalition, and prefers to fold.

Reality made by Merkel has entered the Bundestag, the AfD is her Frankenstein creation, but the AfD will soon start to dissect itself: there are too many Alpha-narcissists in it.

There will be more people than ever in the Bundestag. More than 15% over the wanted limits.

An "even now" attitude is to be feared now to infest the Merkal party. They suffered heavy losses, and the SPD suffered a historicx all time low. The emssage that amny people do not want their political goals, will be met with stubborness of course: "Jetzt erst recht". It will be Merkels last term. She now can lose all inhibitions and sell out German interests carelessly in order too boost the EU. Those who voted for her, and - what is much more unfair and injust - those who did refuse to vote for her - will pay the bill she mounts. It is said she has ambitions to be rewarded with the Peace Nobel Prize, and after so many many misled nominations and so many abuses of Nobel'S intention , it does not matter anymore. She can take all of Germany and sell it away to bribe the world's sympathy for her ambition.

Final poll numbers tomorrow. Turn out was 75%. That means over 15 million of those who were eligible to vote, refused to do so, that is roughly as many as have voted for Merkel.

STEED

09-24-17, 12:51 PM

After 35064 hours, to be precise.

Jim and I know the feeling.

Merkel is an anagram for Putin. :03:

Skybird

09-24-17, 01:08 PM

Merkel is an anagram for Putin. :03:
Hardly. One can assume that from a foreiogn perspective, but nothign could be more wrong. Merkel seriously stood in Putin's way in the past years, and that he has neither forgotten, nor forgiven. Moscow wants to weaken the EU, so to widen its own in fluence, and for that goal, Merkel is an obstacle, no ally.

There seems to have been a big Russian bot-propaganda offensive running in social media in the past days, to help the AfD and to give Merkel headaches in the new Bundestag, and erode the fundaments of public political opinion forming in germany.

Macron voted into office, Merkel voted into office, the road is free for the coming 3 years. I am frightened of what france and Germany now maybe will start to pull off on EU level. Watch your money, Germans.You will have to pay for France' dreams of glory and shine.

STEED

09-24-17, 01:15 PM

Not actions Sky, in the terms how long she has held the position.

We have gone though four Prime Ministers.

Skybird

09-24-17, 01:19 PM

Parallel to the generla election, the Berliners were asked to vote in a referendum as well, for or against leaving the airport of Tegel open. This is a hot issue, since the new BER airport is delayed by years due to incompetence, and is a total disaster, and already now is too small, not to mention there is still no realistic opening date.

It seems that 60% of the Berliners said they want Tegel to be left open. The legal situation is tricky. The referendum is not binding.

STEED

09-24-17, 01:27 PM

Left-wingers and Green Party supporters, however, tend to want it closed. There are fears that an airport in the city centre has serious environmental and safety risks.

1936 - Construction starts on Tempelhof terminal, designed by Nazi-era architect Ernst Sagebiel http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41361655

I would assume those who want it closed is not on the grounds of the past.:hmmm:

Skybird

09-24-17, 01:28 PM

Also noteworthy: in Bavaria, it is the local sisterparty of the CDU, the CSU, filling the slot, and only there. Traditionally they used to win by absolute majority in Bavaria, for decades. This time they fell to around just one third of votes. Like for the SPD, for the CSU this is a historical all-time-low.

Merkel'S policies - mas smigration, EU, Euro, Fukushima and energy revolution - now show their results. CDU looses 8%, CSU down to one third, SPD in big coalition suffers historical all time low - and AfD, a wildy mixed Kindergarten of wildy mixed different egos, now is third strongest party, before FDP, Linke, Greens.

Skybird

09-24-17, 01:33 PM

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41361655

I would assume those who want it closed is not on the grounds of the past.:hmmm:
Loc al resident sliving in the airports noise zone want it closed. The rest of the city want it open: business, and other travellers as well. Not only is the new airport already now deficitary in size, it also is qwuite far outside the city, and the traffic connection also is a terrible miscalculation. Tegel on the othe rhand is a bit like London City airport, quite central in the city, and traffic-wise well connected. It now is technically behind, because in expectation of seeing it being shut down anyway already five years ago, no investements in technical maintenance were allowed.

And Tempelhof is gone as well.

BER is a running gag. It costs millions every day to just be there, unused, silent, and not being worked on. Since years. Berlin gets heavily subsidised by other federal states - but it wants ever more and more to pay for its dreamdance ballets.

STEED

09-24-17, 01:40 PM

18:53 'Disaster for Merkel'

Jenny Hill
BBC Berlin correspondent

This is a disastrous night for Mrs Merkel. She's managed to win but this is her worst-ever election result.
What we're seeing here is Mrs Merkel being punished for opening Germany's door to hundreds of thousands of migrants. Mrs Merkel's campaign team saw this coming very late.
She urged voters to mobilise. Perhaps what we're seeing is that didn't happen.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-41367497

Sounds a bit like our Mrs May went though, the polls showing she was going to walk it and then the hammer comes down. Mrs May wins but needs the DUP to get her across the winning post.

Looks like in Germany Mrs Merkel just got a loud message so will she listen or decide nuts to the voters. :hmmm:

Catfish

09-24-17, 01:57 PM

Xenophobe right-wing German Ukip (AfD) with Gauleiter Gauland is now in the parliament, and he promises to hunt down his enemies and "wants his country back". Wow. YOU POMPOUS PRICK!

mapuc

09-24-17, 02:29 PM

you are discussing the German election which toke place earlier today(voting station closed at 6 pm)

Wondering how your own politicians see this

Here a huge majority of our elected politicians are happy Merkel have won the election and will be the leader of Germany for another 4 years. While some other politicians are somehow depressed.

A majority of my friends are saddened thinking Merkel are leading Germany for another 4 years.

Some of them are glad AfD got about 13-13.5 %.

Markus

Catfish

09-24-17, 02:36 PM

^ Frikorps Danmark? :hmmm:
:O:

Sorry. I know, those people are everwhere (depressed mode)

Oberon

09-24-17, 02:42 PM

^ Frikorps Danmark? :hmmm:
:O:

Sorry. I know, those people are everwhere (depressed mode)

Resistance is futile.

Catfish

09-24-17, 02:44 PM

Résistance..? :03:

Turn the tables and hunt them down for a change.

Oberon

09-24-17, 03:38 PM

Résistance..? :03:

Turn the tables and hunt them down for a change.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=antmMPqYuw8

mapuc

09-24-17, 03:54 PM

This is what the Danish Prime minister said some hours ago

"AFD's significant progress - and government coalition even greater decline - can only be read as a warning to politicians who did not take people's concerns seriously enough, "said Danish Prime Minister Lars Løkke "

This Prime Minister is very positiv to Merkel and EU. If you should wonder.

Markus

Skybird

09-24-17, 04:14 PM

Merkel would have loved to just have the SPD again as junior partner, getting a coalition of 53% majority in the Bundestag, and rendering the other parties and all opposition to the de facto one party system's pro EU and pro migration policy meaningless.More of the same as in the past 12 years she wanted.

Instead she now only can form a highly fragile coalition with the FDP, and the Greens, who both have many opinions that are incompatbile, and then there is the disaster of the CSU in Bavaria, which will illustrate to at least the CSU that they had to pay a high price for abandoning traditionally "conservative" positions in favour of seizing left/SPD positions to erode the fundament SPD, Greens and Die Linke could live on. The CSU will need to reclaim "right" voters that Merkel has left behind,m else the CSU soon will become an irrelevance on national and a minor party on Bavarian level.

So, the BBC commentator Steed quoted, got it right. This is the most negative scenario Merkel could have gotten (if SPD does not change minds and lines up with her again, but then the SPD will erode even further and can expect to get laughed about even louder in five years).

I do not applaud the AfD, they are a kindergarten and those who voted for them will soon see what they have voted for. But I also do not mind for them being where they are. I cannot force change and cannot make things differently and what I have to say on these things mostly gets by unheard/unread, and will not make a difference, so I am an observer on these things only, I refuse to defend for or against any of the existing parties, for me they are all the same kind of criminal garbage, and the doom of Germany, and Europe. Also, I see the causal link between Merkels policies and the EU-wide madness, and the rise of the "right" and the strengthening of independence movements everywhere. Since I understand the causal link between cause and effect, I cannot complain about the effect, that makes no sense - only about the cause I can complain. And I again have refused to legitimize the causes. I always will. Because: Hayek: "In government, scum raises to the top."

Skybird

09-24-17, 04:21 PM

Ouh, and just btw: in Saxonia, the AfD is in front. They could become the strongest party there. Ooopsala.

mapuc

09-24-17, 04:51 PM

Instead of throwing dirty words against those who voted for parties like the German AfD or the Swedish SD(Sweden Democrats)

You should start to investigate to why these party have grown in popularity

And it's not because those who have put their vote on these parties has a low IQ or have other mental problem or whatever reason one may come up with.

Markus

Skybird

09-24-17, 06:34 PM

We call it over here the "honest election result", it means that all numbers get transformed to include the group of non-voters in the result, which puts some perspective to things.

62 million people in germany were eligible to vote.

CDU 24.9%
N.V. 24.4% (non-voters)
SPD 15.7%
AfD 9.9%
FDP 7.9%
Greens 7.1%
Die Linke 6.7%

Interesting to see how many of the discussed 2- or 3-party coalitions would be impossible. Practically all.

Honest election results show better how relevant and representative parties' programs and views are in the wide public. They often all act as if the world could not revolve around the sun without them. But in reality they all represent just minorities, never a majority.

Also consider the fact that one quarter of the total population was not even allowed/able to vote: babies, kids, teens, elderly who are too ill (mentally), and so forth. These are not represented in the transformed numbers above. If you add their non-votes, the number for the parties would drop even more. Reduce them by one third, roughly. Some parties then would not even make it over the 5%-hurdle.

We see a general raise of mistrust and antipathy against poltics and parties and poltricians, throughout the West. I think it is important to supplement the official propaganda statistics with a widened view on these numbers, to pout them a bit into relation.

In France, the higher turnout helped Macron and prevented a march of the Front National. In Germany, turnout rose a bit, too, but here it has worked for a detrimental effect, it seems.

Skybird

09-24-17, 06:46 PM

And now its official: in Saxony, the AfD by votes is the winner and ranks on 1. In Brandenburg, it is the second strongest party by votes.

Skybird

09-25-17, 04:14 AM

Eight lessons to be learned:

http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/angela-merkel-afd-spd-eight-lessons-from-germany-s-elections-a-1169606.html

Correctly identified.

Outlook:

http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/germany-angela-merkel-s-fourth-term-comes-at-high-price-a-1169632.html

Skybird

09-25-17, 04:28 AM

Wowh, that did not take long: the chief of the CSU, Horst Seehofer, has opened debate on whether CDU and CSU shall continue as a "Fraktionsgemeinschaft", a union of two sister parties, and wants his party to have a vote on whether or not they want to continue side by side together with the CDU.

CDU/CSU have been de facto one party on national level since the founding of the federal republic after the war.

In the past years, Seehofer tried the impossible, attacking Merkel over the migration crisis, to appease the conservatives in his party, but always in the last minute falling back and lining up with her again to not threaten the government. It has pissed many conservative voters, who necessarily feel betrayed by his manouverings. They turned away and let the CSU in bavaria almost collapse this time. usually they sack results above the 50% level in their home state.

Catfish

09-25-17, 07:02 AM

We now expect Farage to come over and extend his congratulations.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/sep/07/nigel-farage-to-address-far-right-rally-in-germany

STEED

09-25-17, 07:43 AM

We now expect Farage to come over and extend his congratulations.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/sep/07/nigel-farage-to-address-far-right-rally-in-germany

If he goes ahead he will damage himself and look like a hypocrite, back here UKIP is holding a leadership election and he has said do not elect one candidate who is anti muslim/islam whom would destroy UKIP.

STEED

09-25-17, 07:45 AM

Merkel has been weaken is this a chance for the French wolfs to take chunks out of her. :hmmm:

Skybird

09-25-17, 08:31 AM

Merkel has been weaken is this a chance for the French wolfs to take chunks out of her. :hmmm:
Macron wanted a strong Merkel/Schäuble because both sympathise with the French demand to communitise/communise European debts so that net payers must finance the debts of net receivers, which is forbidden by the Maastricht joke-of-a-treaty. If Merkel still nodds this off now, she can not hope to get away with it easily anymore, for the AfD will call her out (having already announced they want to hunt Merkel down), and with an FDP in a coalition government one woudl expect that the FDP also would not allow this to happen anymore: the FdP indicated their price for coalition is to get the seat of the finance ministry.

I think in Paris faces yesterday became longer and longer.

On the other hand, considering the psychotic characters that politicians on this level of power have, we can also expect that stubborness will prevent Merkel from facing new realities, and that she will press even harder for more EU and more Euro and more German payments (while telling the opposite to the Germans at home, of course). "Jetzt erst recht!" (now more than ever!) might become the new parole, making things even worse, of course. Like Juncker recently said the lesson of the past years must be to intensify the EUnification and that we need even more of what has brought us the several crisis of the past couple of years.

Germany was sullied and lullied by too mayn years of overwhelming grand coalition majority that left no chance for controversial debate and discussion. Merkel that way could afford to declare herself as "without alternative". The AfD strong now, the CSU under existential pressure to confront the Merkel-CDU, and Merkel having no chance to have a coalition where she must not accept compromises, but must balance interests of the Green versus that of conservatives versus that of liberals(=libertarians, not socialists) - that is good, and therefore I do not see the fall of Germany in the AfD'S raise yesterday. The AfD will misbehave, will provoke and will raise controversy. After the decade of Merkelian stagnation and collective graveyard peace-consensus strangling all discussion on Merkel'S policies to death before it could even begin, this can only be good. That it needed the AfD to raise shows how terribly petrified things over here are, due to Merkel'S years.

I think Merkel will not serve the full term. Even inside her CDU, some people have re-started to sharpen knives against her already. Which is good. I see Merkel as one of the three or four biggest disasters that have hit post-war Germany and post-war Europe. That with other chancellors it could have most likely become even worse, does not change that assessment taken for itself.

Skybird

09-25-17, 08:51 AM

A German newspaper quotes France's Macronman, who should have told an unnamed visitor to the Elysee palace: "If Merkel coalises with the Liberals, then I am dead." His plans for raising the debts in Europe and "reforming" the Euro zone at the cost of the net payers, then could be handed over to an early funeral.

Macron's whole political program was basing on the assumption that the Germans must and will pay for it. But the head of the FDP, Christian Lindner, even yesterday evening repeated his mantra that with him there will be no chance for a deepening of the Euro zone regime, and that this is a red line the FDP will never overstep.

Merkel wants to start coalition talks with the SPD. For her, getting the SPD back into coalition, would be the most comfortable solution to her messes. And it is not certain that the Greens and the FDP want to coalise with the Merkel party at all. Everybody has noted over the past 12 years: any party who shares bed with the Merkel party, ends up dead at the end of the legislation period, getting sucked out and cannibalised. Many party unions of the FDP on federal state level reject a coalition with Merkel.

Jimbuna

09-25-17, 01:03 PM

Politics in Europe right now and perhaps even more than ever are a continouos shifting sea of sand.

Skybird

09-25-17, 01:37 PM

Politics in Europe right now and perhaps even more than ever are a continouos shifting sea of sand.

Pythia...? Is that really you...?!

Skybird

09-25-17, 01:49 PM

Anyway, I saw a conference with Merkel today, and what I saw there, rang the former psychologists' alarm bells in me.

She said that she does not see anything that would have needed to be made differently in her policies, and that should have been arranged differently during the campaign, a campoaign that she herself had planned and arranged. - Mind you, her party has scored the worst result ever since 1949, and suffered big losses. Mind you also, her strategy was to avoid any confrotnation, and to sit still and remain silent and ignore anything not agreeing with her.

And she said that if people demand her to do it, if she is expected to do it, then yes, disagreeing but nevertheless: she declares that she takes responsibility for it, not believing that she should, and thinking it is injust to expect her to take that responsibility, it is quite offensive to expect that of her, "But if you people really want it and press me for it, okay, here are the words you want to hear form my lying lips: I am responsible. I am not really, but that is what you want me to say." - Of course she did not use these words. I use these words to describe the stunning, the shocking body language in her, and the alienating tone in which she made the according comment. I was stunned when seeing and hearing it. It was surreal, and really worrying.

Merkel has not understood anything. Really, nothing at all she has understood, and she thinks she is the victim of circumstances and is being treated injust. She denies reality and is disconnected form it.

She has done nothngn wrong, what she did was all right, was perfect, she beleives he rown mantry "I am without alternative", it is injust that people do not follow her anymore uncritically, she denies any own guilt for the drama happening, and in general what I saw was a woman that has snapped, and that takes very very serious personal offence from German having turned away. The Germans made the mistake - she made none.

Merkel has understood NOTHING.

I never liked her, on a personal level, but never before I have seen her as arrogant, disconnected and especially as unappealing, as today. I fear she will seek revenge on Germany: now more than ever my ways, and my ways alone!

She has understood nothing. And sees herself as victim of injustice and unthankfulness.

I think the CDU needs to get rid of her by force. The earlier, the better.

STEED

09-25-17, 02:16 PM

I think Merkel will not serve the full term. Even inside her CDU, some people have re-started to sharpen knives against her already. Which is good. I see Merkel as one of the three or four biggest disasters that have hit post-war Germany and post-war Europe. That with other chancellors it could have most likely become even worse, does not change that assessment taken for itself.

I take it you will smile on that day a tearful Merkel steps down. I am not to sure but only time will tell.

Jimbuna

09-25-17, 02:17 PM

Pythia...? Is that really you...?!

No, I'm simply her conscience.

STEED

09-25-17, 02:28 PM

No, I'm simply her conscience.

With many many crystal balls which will soon be on display in some museum up North.

Jimbuna

09-25-17, 02:33 PM

Not crystal, Tungsten.

STEED

09-25-17, 02:37 PM

Not crystal, Tungsten.

How dull.

STEED

09-25-17, 02:41 PM

German election: Merkel vows to win back right-wing votershttp://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41384550

I was thinking she had far more on her plate short term than bothering with this right now.

Skybird

09-25-17, 03:05 PM

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41384550

I was thinking she had far more on her plate short term than bothering with this right now.
Her ego gut bruised, she was rejected. This cannot be, this shall not stand. People must be made to love her again. Else, what of her perceived self-understanding to be without alternative - due to her perfect political decision-making abilities?

If you think you are without alterntaive, it cannot be that people reject you. They must be made to follow you again. Come what will.

A narcissist whose vanity got wounded, can be quite dangerous, because he may act on grounds of revenge and ruthlessness.

---

And Henryk Broder wrote:

"Die AfD ist die Rache der Geschichte an unserer Idee, wir Deutschen müssten stets Vorbild sein. Mal eben kurz die Welt retten, dem Klima sagen, wo es lang geht und die Amis die Demokratie lehren. Endlich sind wir normal!"

Translation:

"The AfD is history's revenge upon our idea that we Germans must be the perfect paragon. Just in between saving the world, calling the shots for the global climate, and lecturing the Yanks about democracy. Eventually, wer are normal! "

Catfish

09-26-17, 02:37 AM

Typical of Merkel, that she has learned nothing from this election. She sees nothing wrong with "her" politics, and no need or will to change anything.
She gets a slap in the face and pretends it is a victory, just because there can be no government without her and those pesky 30 percent.
She will not be the next chancellor, if she even makes it to the next regular elections at all.

It is not entirely her fault. Legislative and law-making have become a joke. Big companies write laws and make "proposals", and politicians with almost no education in that matter sign them, for the lack of knowledge, and for having no own independent experts to judge.
The people are not backed by politicians, there is no shield against greed and egomanic self-interest of big business. Maybe there never was, but now even the façade is gone.

Speaking of this, and how what we call "democracy" (the west does not have real democracy, never had) will develop, it is widely discussed which system will replace it. In the past, no governing system has survived a century. What we have now is roughly a hundred years old. It will most probably not survive the next 20 years.

Jimbuna

09-26-17, 05:12 AM

^Well put and pretty much my estimation of the UK as well.

Skybird

09-26-17, 05:54 AM

A German writer reminds us today that after 2 years of "Wir schaffen das!"-policy the CDU has lost every fourth voter, most of them to the AfD. There also has been a substantial drain in party memberships.

Catfish is right, and I too said it before: Merkel has learned nothing. The arrogance of those in power. They cannot imagine that somebody does not like their self-imposed shine. And if it dawns on them on some rare occasions, they snap and say "Then this is no longer my country" (quoting Merkel).

The CDU has a real dilemma there. They must get rid of Merkel, this is essential. But many Germans voted right to get Merkel. Merkel herself used the past decade to systematically kill any rival and personell alternative to her, so that there is nobody in sight in the CDu who could replace Merkel.

And the FDP, that is needed? For four years they have been out of the Budnestag. Most of those they now send into it, have no experience with that kind of work and responsiblity. The majority of FDP backseater would prefer to not end up in government already, but to use the four years in opposition to merely "arrive" again in parliamentary work. Analysis shows that most peop,e who voted for FDP, did so by quick decision, firing form the hip so to speak, not due to real cinviction and sympathy. These will look very closely what the FDP is doing, and if they see that the FDP is now allowing to get plowed under or to chnage its earlir statements on certain things related to the EU and the Euro, then the FDP could easily lose access to the Bundestag in four (five) years again when voters again run away.

A coalition between Greens, FDP, CDU and CSU, is anything but certain right now. Maybe it even is not very likely. The younger party members of the Greens by overwhelming majority refuse that coalition. And the CSU can no longer afford to just trail Merkel's policies.

New elections are absolutely possible. And then the AfD probably gains even more votes, while the FDP possibly (they got many new party members since Sunday, they said yesterday, several thousand).

The AfD will live by keeping the divisions between itself and the others alive. According behavior will need to be expected from the AfD. Constructive interests? Dont bet on it.

STEED

09-26-17, 07:59 AM

Her ego gut bruised, she was rejected. This cannot be, this shall not stand. People must be made to love her again.

Sounds like something out of a Mills & Boon nightmare! :o

STEED

09-26-17, 08:06 AM

Skybird

09-26-17, 09:14 AM

Yesterday I wrote about that Merkel quiote and how she weaseled around admitting her responsiblity. (post #410). I am obviously not the only one who has noted that.

In German:

http://www.huffingtonpost.de/2017/09/26/angela-merkel-medien-_n_18105184.html?utm_hp_ref=germany

Its the Twilight of Merkel.

Winner of the election: Putin. If Merkels falls, he has gotten what he wanted most: a paralysed Germany, the AfD in influential position ready to keep the media busy, and a leader-free and weak EU that is not able to oppose Russia seriously.

Skybird

09-26-17, 01:23 PM

Even although one could have known what Macronman would say in his speech on the state of the EU, that he would demand more super state powers, more centralization and with that: totalitarianism, more planned economy, that he would demand a transfer union (although avoiding to call it that, of course) and an automatic income generation for an ever growing EU bureaucracy by imposing new taxes in the peopel that will be directly collected by the EU - to hear it in explicit words nevertheless is a shock, kind of. Listening to it one really could become thankful for the German voting result that makes it very unlikely that things will go the way Macron wants them to go. If some people still argue that the EU doe snto want to be a super state - Macronman, the grand French visionary for more centralism and government planning everything, has proven them wrong today, and gave evidencer that this is exactly what he and many others in the EU indeed want.

Its not a restart for a better EU. Its a nightmare that he described, with all my concerns and worries coming true. What he said today, in my ears is a long list of threats and intimidations.

This madness must be stopped.

STEED

09-26-17, 05:05 PM

I know this is more to do with the UK but I posted it here as it looks like the French are taking charge. I wonder how Merkel will see this as a threat and a shift in power away from her now she has been weaken.

What is Macron doing saying reformed EU? Our former PM David Cameron tried this and failed.

Emmanuel Macron says Britain could be part of reformed EU after Brexit

The French President sets out a bold vision for a more efficient Europe, working more closely on defence, immigration and finance.http://news.sky.com/story/emmanuel-macron-says-britain-could-be-part-of-reformed-eu-after-brexit-11054531

Skybird

09-26-17, 07:44 PM

"To reform" is tricky word to translate, it is French for more centralization, stronger state, own tax raising, communising of national debts, building paper tigers and parallel military structures to already now underfunded NATO, Brussel gaining the say on national economic policy, national labour policy, national social policy, and the net paying countries, namely Germany, having to pay for most of all this, while giving advise to net receiving countries to perform intentionally worse in state managemet to gain in inefficiency and so getting more claim for transfer payments and reducing their financial obligations even more. That is Macronism. It is meant to give the man a bright shine.

In France Macron after shoprt time already is far more unpopular than Holland had become after much longer time. He was not voted for due to love anyway, but to protest against the other parties - something that the Germans systematically ignored from all beginning of the French "miracle" on, thinking Macron is a French heart affair. He is not, and never was.

The more he could get Germany to erode itself, the stronger France will become in relative strength, because by own economic strength it cannot take over from Germany, economically and financially it is too weak. In the end - that has always been state reason in Paris - the EU has to be dominated by Paris. Only Germans can be stupid enough to accept that as "cooperation and powersharing". All others call it "getting pulled over the table."

And Merkel? As I see it, she is a thing of the past. Many media over here have commented on her still lasting reality denial and how hilarious she is to imply that nothing has happened and that she can carry on just like before, as if nothign happened. She has insisted again on that she sees no reaosn why anything in her policies shoulkd be chnaged, and that she likes how it is and loves to get to work on this great new task of forming the new government. The surreal comments by her that I have already commented on earlier, really has been taken note of, and sunk deep in over here, many newspaper in one way or the other commented on it, in a mocking, even hostile tone. Two of the major national papers demand her to step back, indirectly. In her own party there are demands now as well that she has to go. The question is not if, but when, I think. Even if she lasts to see a new coalition government formed up, she will not last the whole 4 (5) years. Her days are counted. She is a lame duck, I think. If she gets that Jamaika coalition, she will be paralysed by the extremes in fragile balance in this coalition. Which is good. This damn witch has done more than enough damage.

No need to celebrate that as "democracy now makes her pay the price" - this does not come earlier than after 12 years in which she maximised all damage to Germans that was possible. Migration crisis. Energy turn. Letting Draghi do his thing. Saving climate, Europe, Euro, any whoi knowsd what else, all at Germany'S bill. Allowing the Target-2 saldi to climb to unbelievable ammounts instead of stopping the plundering of the Bundesbank by other countries (we are talking of 800+ billions in payments the Bundesbank made fopr other central banks, which the Germans weill never get paid out from the ECB, no matter those worthless Target-2 claims). Ending nuclear power after Fukushima (the industry now got claim confirmed by the Constitution High Court that they must be compensated, guess who pays for that additionally for this ill-designed energy turn...), and a blind support for the EU. I think all this is a nice example that the system does not work well. It does not ring the alarm and calls staff before the patient has died.

Imagine for Brexit London would pay 800 billions to Brussel. Eight hundred billion. Thats what the Germans willed to do in the Target 2 system. 2.6 times the state budget of Germany, gone, voluntarily handed out, willed to lose it and never seeing anything of it again.For this crime, this monstrous embezzlement of national wealth alone the whole government and the supportive Bundestag already should be lined up against the wall and being executed.

August

09-27-17, 08:10 AM

Hey German Cousins, what's up with this?

https://i.redd.it/y71ntk5w9tnz.gif

STEED

09-27-17, 08:18 AM

^:o

Skybird

09-27-17, 10:54 AM

Yep, thats Germany today, the snippet August quotes in that minivideo unfortunately is VERY representative for the Zeitgeist here in Germany, absolutely. In speeches on TV, president's or chancellor's news years adresses and so forth, you always see the EU flag in front, and the German flag put behind it, covered by it.

An old joke over here holds it that Merkel just executes Erich Honnecker's late revenge against the "BRD" (=FRG).

STEED

09-27-17, 11:39 AM

Skybird

09-28-17, 11:06 AM

In German:

http://www.theeuropean.de/wolfram-weimer/12845-der-oppositionskurs-der-spd-geraet-in-die-kritik

A possible worst case scenario. After some weeks, the SPD will kick its arrogant leader/lloser Martin Schulz, and accept a continuation of the great coalition, which will bring Germany another four/five more years of the same.

One could also say it would be a betrayal of the voters.

Merkel however, proudly declaring she cannot imagine at all that anything must be changed in her courses plot, would be utmost happy. This scenario would solve all her problems, and she can continue just as if nothing ever had happened.

A German nightmare. Merkel is like a kraken strangling Germany to death.

August

09-28-17, 08:56 PM

Well that's just sad. I wonder when I return to Germany which I must in the next couple years whether I will recognize it.

Catfish

09-29-17, 05:03 AM

Nonsense, Merkel of the CDU will of course be in the new government, she has the most votes after all.
What the SPD does or not, is of no concern in the short run. It is only honest from Schulz to admit they did not get the votes. Worst result after 1949 for the SPD.

To have a real discussion and effort to improve things, it is only good that the SPD is now in the opposite camp and developing new ideas, maybe this will make some people aware of what this new government is lacking.

Skybird

09-29-17, 06:24 AM

Worst result after 1949 for the SPD.
For the CDU as well. ;)

STEED

11-20-17, 08:03 AM

What next for Angela Merkel after German government talks collapse?https://news.sky.com/story/what-next-for-angela-merkel-after-german-government-talks-collapse-11135368

Where is our man on the street who can separate fact from BS, Skybird you are needed.

So what options are open angry Merkel? Are you heading for another election?

Catfish

11-20-17, 08:39 AM

The "FDP" had some real fun blowing it all up :haha:
All of the parties had the will for a compromise, but not the FDP.
The FDP's role of a "beleidigte Leberwurst" [~act "like a prima donna") was of course staged, all comments and the final speech had been there a fortnight ago. They are the party of the 0,1 percent who want to give money to those who deserve it – the billionaires. People are just too dumb to read their program, so this is how they raked in the 10 percent of votes.

However Merkel has a problem now. How i wish it wasn't the only one :03:
Maybe we can send her to Rhodesia err Merkelia err Zimbabwe :rolleyes:

Skybird

11-20-17, 11:23 AM

Long lists of foul compromises that would have rendered every party's claimed positions nill and void anyway. No loss. No gain. the misery goes on. Having a mixed coalition with four different parties, would have been misery as well. And plentyof pointlessness.

Merkel is done. No loss, but agaon, nobody comign after her will do lesser damage.

Only plenty of bad and worst options: before the election, during the negotiaton, and now. Even a great coalition again would be a disaster. The political system is as eroded and in lack of substance, as is the monetarian system.

Its all over but the crying. More of it to follow next year. No good oiptions are left anymore, its all a mess, no matter what gets done.

Catfish

11-20-17, 12:12 PM

http://i1.wp.com/scienceblogs.de/chevoja/files/2015/03/asophi.jpg

https://monstermeute.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/asterix_der_seher.jpg

Schroeder

11-20-17, 12:17 PM

Frankly I'm quite glad that thee "Jamaica coalition" didn't come to being. Too many parties with too different views. They would only have been able to agree to minimalist compromises and to nothing that would moved the country forward.

Jimbuna

11-20-17, 04:05 PM

I reckon another election and she'll eventually remain in power but her status as 'head' of the EU has been considerably weakened.

STEED

11-20-17, 04:27 PM

German Chancellor Angela Merkel has said she would prefer new elections to leading a minority government, after a breakdown in coalition talks plunged the country into political crisis.http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-42057108

All we need is her to fail and that may see the end of her.

Jimbuna

11-21-17, 06:59 AM

"It is better not to govern than to govern badly."

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/881977/Germany-Angela-Merkel-AfD-CDU-FDP-German-coalition-Jamaica-Jamaika-collapse-video

Skybird

11-21-17, 07:29 AM

Merkel is so disconnected from reality that since quite some time she shows the self-understanding of a nonredeemable monarch. She simply cannot see when it is game over.

Mugabe, anyone?

Its bad if she stays. It is bad with those coming after her. There is no suitable candidate. The whole poltical pseudo-elite is a mess. They all should go and make room for people who were not bred from the parties' systems and established networks. The parties and their self-interests are not the ones bringing solutions -. they are the problem.

Catfish

11-21-17, 07:35 AM

Germany is there, with or without Merkel. Politicians are overrated :haha:

Jimbuna

11-21-17, 07:49 AM

How about a swap....May for Merkel?

Nippelspanner

11-21-17, 08:02 AM

They all should go and make room for people who were not bred from the parties' systems and established networks...
Such as?

The only thing that would prevent Germany from vanishing soon would be a new totalitarian regime with absolute power that corrects a decade of utter negligence with an iron and, unfortunately but necessarily, inhumane fist, throwing out what doesn't belong here to save what's left from the German people.

But that will not happen, of course, and it would also just be another extreme, leading to other problems... I think we all know enough about the 30's and 40's of the last century.
However, this is the only thing that could undo what has been done, as no democratic party could do what is necessary to stop this madness due to our negligent/inconsistent basic laws alone.
The seed of evil has been planted, and soon we will reap what we have sown. Germany, and the Germans, will vanish and the new "Germans" will be part of an ideology that has nothing to do with what Germany is, has been, or ever wanted to be.

This is probably the most extreme thing I have ever said, politically, and the thing that shocks me most is not that I said it, but that I might be right in the end. And I do not like it.

STEED

11-21-17, 12:16 PM

How about a swap....May for Merkel?

NAFF OFF TO THAT. :O:

I rather have Reece. :haha:

Catfish

12-07-17, 09:46 AM

Good article about the EU, problems but also why it was the preserver of the national states; in german:

http://www.zeit.de/2017/49/eu-werte-demokratie-polen-reform/seite-1

Skybird

12-07-17, 10:13 AM

And my reply to that:

http://www.achgut.com/artikel/edis_europas_neuer_Schulden_Ballon

You thought it could not get worse after the EMS? Wrong you thought.

And Germany's agony, an Ancien Regime not wanting to die:

http://www.achgut.com/artikel/merkels_letztes_aufgebot

Socialist redistribution schemes and planned economy - that is what the EU is about. That also is what most likely in my opinion and the opinion of a few historians and economists has been the real reason behind the American North's decision to declare war against the South (the slaves were just a strawman argument to appeal to the masses emotions). Keep the financial fiasco show running a little bit longer, plunder and rob the well-managing ones and give the loot to those mismanaging their countries and economies. Punish those who do well by their own power and skill by plundeirng them and have the loot be consummed by those not doing well. And before anything else - SAVE THE BANKS that are unfit to live!

Schultz now wants the United States of Europe until 2025. Does this threat justify violence in self defence? I think yes. I would even say it is a moral imperative, if they do not voluntarily stop. An they will not voluntarily stop, these formidable planners and masterminds, these great know-it-alls and social engineer experts, these professional parasites and antisocial narcissists, the bosses or organised crime and emperors by the self-proclaimed grace of their own.

I have reached a point in my life where I would not move even just the small little finger in defence of this order and state anymore. The times remind me of the times before world war one, when everbvdoy was dreaming and had made his cozy nest in his heap of illusions that the bad will not happen, the known will last forever, and nothing must be feared since the Franz Jospeh is standing guard, watching it all. As an American historian wrote, the Europeans walked into the disaster like sleepwalkers (so his book'S title). And they do it again right now. Not necessarily a world war, but a disaster nevertheless.

If so many people do not care for the world burning, then let it burn. :arrgh!:Stupidity may be consumed that way, at least for some years.

Its all about maintaining the illusions with regard to the plebs.

Catfish

12-07-17, 10:18 AM

What does that ^ have to do with the article?
You like Orban or Kacinsky's methods? Why don't you discuss instead of spreading your hate? You like what happens in Hungary, Poland, Turkey? Nothing to do with money.
Those bigmouths are pulling out lots of money while complaining how unfair it all is.

Throw them out of the EU alright!

Skybird

12-07-17, 10:21 AM

Black or White. - Catfish.

Shades and Colours. - Skybird.

Catfish

12-07-17, 10:28 AM

Yes, you obviously did not read the article.
But i am not interested in playing ping pong :yep:

Skybird

12-07-17, 10:31 AM

Black or White. - Catfish.

Shades and Colours. - Skybird.

The worst totalitarianism that I fear is that of a new Sovjet Union within the borders of the EU.

And what my reply above, the linked articles, especially the first one, has to do with your link to Die Zeit, should be obvious. ;)

I do neithe rfavour Hungarian and Pllish giovenrment to the EU, nor do I favour ther EU over Hunbagarey and Poland. Both political establishments piss me to the utmost maximum possible. None of them is less bad than the other.

"In govenrments, the scum raises to the top. " - Hayek.

Catfish

12-07-17, 10:45 AM

I always like your even handed arguments, never one-sided, and without any prejudice.

Skybird

12-07-17, 11:35 AM

And I always liked your left-leaningness that claims to be not left-leaning and your oppotunistic willingness to overlook and just ignore the many many instances when the EU - and the Euro club, which in the end they want to make one and the same - brakes its own oh so holy values and ideals when it sees fit to do so while nevertheless preaching them to others when it hopes to gain an advantage from it. Like in that article in Die Zeit.

EU and Europe are not the same, but are antagonistic opposites. A a corrupt club like this has no credibility and reputation whatever to teach others about ideals and principles. I already had to puke when reading just the first opening sentence in Die Zeit. Which has been a moderately left paper when Schmidt was there, and now is a suprisingly open leftist Kampfblatt. It has dropped deeply in my respect in recent years.

ikalugin

12-07-17, 01:40 PM

The worst totalitarianism that I fear is that of a new Sovjet Union within the borders of the EU.
I guess you would prefer 3rd Reich style totalitarianism? :hmmm:

Catfish

12-07-17, 02:47 PM

I guess you would prefer 3rd Reich style totalitarianism? :hmmm:

That would be too far left for him, in his present state.

Skybird

12-07-17, 08:27 PM

I prefer no totalitarianism at all. And between Nazi socialism and Sowjet socialism, I make no real difference - its a cosmetic difference at best. Hence I reject both and for the same reasons. Anything else would be a contradiction in itself.

Skybird

12-15-17, 07:43 AM

History report from the future: how the Turkish army captured Germany

:haha:

http://www.achgut.com/artikel/uups_besuch_aus_dem_morgenland

Unfortunately only in German

kraznyi_oktjabr

12-15-17, 09:08 AM

History report from the future: how the Turkish army captured Germany

:haha:

http://www.achgut.com/artikel/uups_besuch_aus_dem_morgenland

Unfortunately only in GermanHow successful this Google translation (https://translate.google.fi/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.achgut.com%2Fartikel%2Fuups_bes uch_aus_dem_morgenland&edit-text=&act=url) is?

Skybird

12-15-17, 09:15 AM

^Wowh, for a bot translation, actually that is pretty good, you at least can understand everything. Have bot translators done a quatum leap of any sort recently? Usually I avoid such bot translators, since they messed up too often and too easily, translating only the simpliest of senteence structures. Is this the Alpha Zero of bot translating?

Catfish

12-15-17, 09:16 AM

Nice article :haha: :D

Skybird

12-22-17, 08:01 AM

An old running joke in the GDR was this: who are the biggest enemies of socialism? Spring, Summer, Autumn, Winter.

https://translate.google.de/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=de&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.achgut.com%2Fartikel%2Fder_sapo rozhez_der_post_als_vorreiter_bei_der_elektromobil itaet&edit-text=

Whether something works, does not get proven by realities ont he ground, but by planners in polit bureaus. Command economy.

Bleiente

12-22-17, 04:28 PM

The old GDR... war die am meisten bewaffnete Nation auf der Welt. :03:

Skybird

12-23-17, 07:32 AM

Bundeswehr helicopter pilots now must do their flight training in civilian helicopters of the ADAC (Allgemeiner deutscher Automobil-Club). The German army has not sufficient ready helicopters left to run the flight training.

https://translate.google.de/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=de&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spiegel.de%2Fpolitik%2Fdeutschl and%2Fbundeswehr-laesst-piloten-beim-adac-trainieren-a-1184693.html&edit-text=

---------------

Meanwhile, the german state attorney said that this year the number of criminal procedures against Islamic terrorists have grown by a factor of 5 (five). He counts a total of 1200 cases in 2017.

----------------

Kurz in, Merkel out. The contrasts hardly could be any bigger. Just compare the sprint tempo by which they formed the government in Vienna, and the agony the Germans are wallowing in.

https://translate.google.de/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=de&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.achgut.com%2Fartikel%2Fkurz_mac ht_merkel_lang&edit-text=

Catfish

01-08-18, 01:40 PM

Quite interesting, from a shiite radical to critic, and why (only in german):

https://scilogs.spektrum.de/natur-des-glaubens/vom-schiitischen-radikalen-zum-bekennenden-islamkritiker-interview-mit-kian-kermanshah/

But that is one of the problems: while even radicals who grow old enough seem to understand that there is something wrong with their view of the world and religion, the damage is already done.

Jimbuna

01-08-18, 01:54 PM

^English translation: https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fscilogs.spektrum.de%2Fnatur-des-glaubens%2Fvom-schiitischen-radikalen-zum-bekennenden-islamkritiker-interview-mit-kian-kermanshah%2F

Rockstar

01-08-18, 02:08 PM

Interesting, it seems the religion of Islam was the foundation of his radicalism not some demented interpretation of it as some here have suggest is why radicals do what they do. I say this because that even after years of careful study he didn't see any peace in it. No, after all that study he saw it for what it is and left it all behind him.

Good for him.

Also, I might add I've read a great portion of Quran and hadith literature. It's no great mystery only a few can understand. I immediately understood it the same way he understands Islam now and round filed it.

Catfish

01-08-18, 02:50 PM

^^ Thanks Jim :salute: Google is surely becoming better, with its translation service :o

Skybird

01-08-18, 09:46 PM

Die Medien sollten sich viel mehr der ex-Muslime annehmen

Not just the media. Apostates from Islam are kind of regugees, people who escaped thew barbary and tyranny, the prison of mind. The yoften poay with loss of their families, with accepting to be threatened, with isolation, contempt and anger from former friends. The loss can be huge indeed. But also the gains are big: the satisfaction of being independent in thought, feeling the courage to stick to what one realised as one'S own truth against all hostility and opposition, and in general: freedom, thogh it might be under threat. I knew some apostates, even helped a very few of them to become that when encouraging them to analyse objectively what it was that let them feel douzbt in their former dogma. The three guys I have on mind I have no more contact to, but I remember how angry they were before, and what stroing and calm, frioendly characters they became after their deciison to leave Islam behind. It is the state of uncertainty that costs the most power. Somebody who goes througzh all this and endures it to the end to come out as a free man, really has my respect - it is a testimony that speaks strongly in favour for him. Being an apostate from christianity, also may mean inner conflict for some, especially if somebody was a strong b eleiver before - but hardly his risks are comparable to that of Muslim apostates in real dangers in everday life. His social losses usually also are not comparable.

Also, we should focus much stronger on women fleeing from prosecution by their families in Muslim countries if they rebel againmst their father'S wills, do not agree to get married, and the likes. We betray them by tellign the world about human rights and equality of man and woman and our freedom, but then allowing right that mainstream Islam become stronger and stronger in our countries from which they once have fleed when fleeing from their original countries and families.

And finally we shopuld losteh closely to former Muslim apostates what they have to tell about Islam. Becasue they know Islam much better than the salon experts and academic narcissists in our talk shows that try to gloss over Islam'S m,any evils and flaws and call somethign Islam that is an illusion - theirs - and want to make us beleive the claws and fangs of a mosnter are not what they look like and that the monster compares to its prey and just waits for the possibility to become like its prey and wants to follow it'S "superiority". Only a few things the German public debates about and forms an opinion on while being so totally uneducated and misled and fooled by self-imposed illusions, like Islam. All in an attempt to tame the monsters under the bed by implying they are not there, like we seriously believe that the Italian Mafia not really has formed a stronghold in Germany, but is an exlcusively Italian problem.

There are fmaous apostates from islam in Germany, who hold acamdeic ranks concenrign oriental reserach and research oin Islam, whjo know it from both a perosnal side by their families with Imamas int hem, and from the Western scientific tradition, who have accepted scars in their lives while going their stoney and difficult ways, and who knows this stuff so very well. They all have somethjign in common: the German tlakshows and plotical negoptation rounds ignore or isolate them, boycott them, try to keep them out. They destroy illusions, and the do so wioth comoetence, knowledge and experience - and that si what German cannot bear, and so it ignores them, instead of benefitting from their expertzise. Instead we kneel before representatives of Turkish nationalists, DITIB, radical imams we claim we could have a serious trade on human rights with...

Ich könnte kotzen über so viel deutsche Doofheit und Borniertheit.

Skybird

01-08-18, 09:47 PM

^^ Thanks Jim :salute: Google is surely becoming better, with its translation service :o
I noticed that recently too, there is an improvement. Maybe its Google'S Zero Team Alpha behind it...

Jimbuna

01-09-18, 06:55 AM

^^ Thanks Jim :salute: Google is surely becoming better, with its translation service :o

No problem matey but I know what you mean about the quality and accuracy of some of the translations.

I reckon Google is okay, especially if you can't read or understand more than a few words of the original content.

Something is usually better than nothing.

August

01-09-18, 02:26 PM

Interesting tidbit in the news today:

https://www.westernjournal.com/6-months-angela-merkel-lectured-trump-global-warming-germany-abandons-climate-goals/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=conservativetribune&utm_content=2018-01-08&utm_campaign=manualpost
6 Months After Angela Merkel Lectured Trump on Global Warming, Germany Abandons Its Climate Goals

Don't know how true this is but figured our German forum friends would know...

STEED

01-21-18, 02:21 PM

Germany's Social Democrats (SDP) have voted for coalition negotiations with Chancellor Angela Merkel's conservatives, their former coalition partners.http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-42767235

So the Bitch is back sort of? :hmmm:

Catfish

01-21-18, 02:49 PM

It's (coalition talk) not done yet, but if..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upR7GQ5ToCs&list=RDupR7GQ5ToCs

@August i think there was talk about abandoning because the right-wing conservative parties did not like goals that put industry under pressure, but then the coalition plans crashed.
I guess the probability that the goal will not be abandoned, just rose with the planned SPD-coalition.
If they abandon it, it has nothing to do with a change of Merkel's opinion.

Skybird

01-21-18, 04:11 PM

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-42767235

So the Bitch is back sort of? :hmmm:
No. It has been leaked from her closest circle that the party seeks a successor already. She has lost too much authority.

Also, the red socialists have only voted to start negotiating about entering a great coalition again (which has been de facto voted out of office, mind you, but it seems that election results mean nothing anymore these days: we just cannot get rid of the scum that dominates the political stage even if we vote them off), giving the reds the lowest election return in their history and the blue and black socialists one of their worst or the worst as well. That these negotiations will be successful - that is a completely other story and not granted at all. Officially, all three parties CDU, CSU and SPD are so totaloly opposing to many of the others' positions and wishes that it practically should be impossible. Merkel will bend and morph like an octopus in a bottle to secure her interests, but she will be significantly weapened. Her m arks have dropped signifiantly in Germany, growing numbers are tired of her opportunistic drivel-talk, and the mass migration and its national follow-up crisises has been pushed under the carpet, but are on everybody's mind nevertheless. Mascronman has taken over her mojo, woth quite some German politicians now be willign to pay German money for France's "vision".

The SPD will not ge tout of the dumnps if they allow to get pulled over the table. Not pulling them over thr table will ruin the CSU's chances in upcoming federal elections later this year for claiming the absolute majority, which is their demand. I think that Merkel from all eleciton on hoped for a great coalition again, but the way they get this repetion moving will weaken her so much that she canot survive the whole legislation period and the SPD will raise demands that should be impossible to accept for the CDU, if the SPD wants to recover fromt heir historc low in the next elections. Their marks have dropped even further since last elections.

Partei, Partei über alles, über alles in der Welt...

And the CDU's Merkel, the CSU' s Seehofer and the SPD's Schulz are three party chefs who all three missed the right time to retire "in dignity" and who all are not wanted and liked over here anymore. This whole national pitiful show is allowed to boil on just because oif these three parasites' ego that think the show cannot move on without their glorious presence. They want to force the masses to love them.

Its not just Macronman hunting Merkel. Its Austria's Kurz And Hungarys'S Orban are hunting her as well. And the raise of "atypical parties" that are a direct reaction to and a linear consequence of Merkel's and the EU's ways. Poland also doe snot like Merkel, but they have no such high-profiled and clever poltical figure head like Kurz and Orban, since Kaczinski's influence outside Polnish society seems to be very limited, he pulls the strings only inside the Polish realm.

Kurz' raise shall be most entertaining, I expect to see. Nobody will weasel as cleverly as he will do.

----

I do not understand why many people think Alexis de Tocqueville is valid in observation only towards America. Many of his insights and his genius are valid in other places and times as well:

"I do not know if the people of the United States would vote for superior men if they ran for office, but there can be no doubt that such men do not run." - Alexis de Tocqueville

"There are some nations in Europe whose inhabitants think of themselves in a sense as colonists, indifferent to the fate of the place they live in. The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved. They are so divorced from their own interests that even when their own security and that of their children is finally compromised, they do not seek to avert the danger themselves but cross their arms and wait for the nation as a whole to come to their aid. Yet as utterly as they sacrifice their own free will, they are no fonder of obedience than anyone else. They submit, it is true, to the whims of a clerk, but no sooner is force removed than they are glad to defy the law as a defeated enemy. Thus one finds them ever wavering between servitude and license.
When a nation has reached this point, it must either change its laws and mores or perish, for the well of public virtue has run dry: in such a place one no longer finds citizens but only subjects.”

“Every nation that has ended in tyranny has come to that end by way of good order. It certainly does not follow from this that peoples should scorn public peace, but neither should they be satisfied with that and nothing more. A nation that asks nothing of government but the maintenance of order is already a slave in the depths of its heart; it is a slave of its well-being, ready for the man who will put it in chains.”

And as I repeatedly described: the meaning of the ancient Greek word for "citizen" points at free, armed, wealthy men.

Jimbuna

01-22-18, 07:32 AM

What you are describing Sky sounds like the whole situation is a complete mess.

It is being reported on UK tv that whilst Merkel is being kept busy at home, one of the consequences is a much weakened EU and Macron will attempt to take her place but I doubt he is actually going to be able to because that will threaten the Geman French economic alliance on the EU stage and could well splinter the EU in the eyes of the other net providers such as Holland and Italy.

STEED

01-22-18, 07:39 AM

Seems what is on the news here SB is slanted in such away putting the Bitch in a good light. Thank goodness for you telling it straight.

Jimbuna

01-22-18, 07:51 AM

Well, somebody is perceiving rather differently to what I am viewing because I don't see much if any support for Merkel in the media and especially since Brexit.

Skybird

01-22-18, 12:37 PM

What Macron wants, is one thing what France actually can afford by its own power, is a very different. Macron needs German money, and lotds and lots of it, and in recent months potli8ians of all parties have idnicaqted that thy wing around and may be willing to give it to him and accept even further ersosions of earlier rules for the Euro, all what was once forbidde3n, especially one state fianncing the debts of the other state and a collectivization of nationald ebts at teh costs of the net payer, now is acceptable for German opponents who once were strictly against it. Contnental unemployment insurance wil come - and Germans will pay for it. National debt budget fiancing via the ECB will come - at the loss of the Germans paying for it. A higher EU budget will come, at the costs of Germans paying for it. The hole left by the soon ending British fundings will be come up for by the Germans who pay for it. Much of this will not be called by its real name, but will be hidden and will be deceived behind misleading names and complex mechanisms designed for the only excluisve purpose of hiding the truth from the public.

Skybird

01-28-18, 06:04 AM

Bot translation does not work well on this, so I give the German original link. It would be a miss not to post it, due to its "launig" basic tone. Its about what kind of empty dumphead generation is being bred inside the SPD and that promises to bring the party below 10% once they have taken over.

In German only:
https://www.publicomag.com/2018/01/uebernimm-generation-kevin-johanna/

We should dumb these intellectual vacuums into Venezuela, I think. They are as needed as an angry appendix. Tjhat tax money will be wasted to feed nills and zeroes like this, is hard to bear.

-----

Meanwhile the plot is thickening that the CDU indeed is mulling to replac Merkel. A likely candidate is Annegret Kramp-Karrenbauer.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annegret_Kramp-Karrenbauer

She supports pro-female gender quotas and Merkel's channelling of mass migration into Germany, also was and is against closing of the borders, but is against the equalization of homosexual "marriage" with heterosexual marriage. She supports a strong orientation of Germany towards France. Migrants shall still get imported en masses, but age and identity verification via viable papers or tests shall be mandatory. Her political career started in and focussed on the Saarland. - Usually she is seen as the continution of Merkel's politics.

My prediction: with her not much will change: questions of style at best. Tjats why it is said she is Merkel's favourite.

Meanwhile polls see the SPD once again going into another dive after the decision to open coalition negotations.

Skybird

02-07-18, 06:43 AM

This illustrates how treacherous Merkwel is to her own "conservative party".

The SPD, dropped in polls far below 20% and biggest looser of the last election, will get the ministries for social isses and labour, and finances.

:dead:

And the foreign ministry as well, becasue Schultz wants to be foreign minister so that he can form the socialist transfer union with Macron. In the last weeks he intensively contacted Macron, and the French cannot believe how eager Germany suddenly is to give up any financial discipline rules and instead follow France's vision of France's centralism and socialism and Mediterranean union dominating Europe - but letting the stupid Germans pay for it.

Merkel has given up all and evertyhing the CDU once claimed to have stand for.

There is only one option left for reaosnable people: vomitting oneself to death.

Law experts sympathizing with the SPD and the outlook to continue the agony of the great coalition (which was kicked out of office in last elections, mind you, and was kicked with a loud BANG)meanwhile do their share to make sure the SPD party base will agree to the plans . They claim that the party has no right to cast their vote on whether they will such a coaltion again or not, becasue it would erode the rights of parliament.

They road to one-party state and Gleichschaltung is now being openly discussed over here. We just call it by other names.

Three days ago there was a silent jubilee. For as many days as the Berlin wall has stood, it now has been gone again. But the mentality that enabled , allowed and embraced the dictatorship of the Nazis, and the dictatorship of the SED in the GDR, has never been away at all.

Schultz as foreign minister, pushing the E and and the French. Imagine the damage he can do there. The SPD controlling finances and social spendings and labour politics. Imagine the damage they can do. Imagine the damage they can do if they control both ministries, labour and finance, together

Imagine the continuation of a great coalition. Imagine the despair.

How can it be that the biggest looser of the election turns out to be the most powerful governmental faction?

Merkel is the biggest disaster for germany since 1933 and its consequences.

-----

Already in 1863, Otto von Bismarck said in a speech to the Prussian parliament:

"The inclination to be enthusiastic about foreign nationalities and national aspirations, even if they can only be realized at the expense of one's native country, is a political form of illness whose geographical distribution is unfortunately limited to Germany." (Die Neigung, sich für fremde Nationalitäten und Nationalbestrebungen zu begeistern, auch dann, wenn dieselben nur auf Kosten des eigenen Vaterlandes verwirklicht werden können, ist eine politische Krankheitsform, deren geographische Verbreitung leider auf Deutschland beschränkt ist.)

Jimbuna

02-07-18, 06:49 AM

Sky, the above was announced on the BBC less than an hour ago and whilst I don't claim to know German politics in any great detail, I believe I know enough to consider this a backward step for the German people who must surely be dissapointed by Merkel and her scheming and coniving efforts to remain in power.

I wonder if she's related to May? :hmmm:

Skybird

02-07-18, 07:02 AM

Ursula v.d. Leyen shall remain to be miniministress of armed kindergardens, foreign school building and expeditionally bridge maintenance. The raises in defence spendings mostly weill be spend not of defence but on civil projects of foreoign aid ambitions. Calculazted in real buying power and projecting the to be expected rate of price increase, it will be a net CUT of defence spendings that actually are spend on - military - defence.

STEED

02-07-18, 07:30 AM

The cat is out the bag..:03:

Germany now 'biggest breaker of EU rules', according to official figures
Angela Merkel's government worst offender in Europe

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/angela-merkel-germany-breaks-more-eu-rules-worst-bottom-class-a8198271.html

Catfish

02-07-18, 08:22 AM

^ aww wasn Aufreger..

"In terms of the seriousness of the 'crimes' they seem to rank somewhere between not handing your homework in on time and failing to tie your shoes laces properly"

What can be said though is
1. Germany will of course pay the penalty, and adjust its behaviour accordingly
2. The EU court obviously works, and is not intimidated or bribed, so nothing is being swept under the carpet
3. Germany will not enter history to have sent away refugees needing help
(which is despite problems something we can be proud of, even if i did not vote for Merkel)
Other main parties in Germany would have acted likewise. (Not the smallish nationalsocialist AfD Farage is a fan of, of course.)

And ... Germany always wins when it comes down to penalties. :D

STEED

02-09-18, 06:11 AM

^So no answer. :haha:

Catfish

02-09-18, 06:56 AM

What was the question? :hmmm:

Jimbuna

02-09-18, 07:01 AM

BREXIT or Remain :O:

STEED

02-10-18, 06:52 AM

What was the question? :hmmm:

As the EU would put it behind closed doors..

Don' t worry about the bills you failed to pay we shall get those b'stards in the UK to pay them.

The EU in public..

We shall give you a year to pay the bills before we send you another letter.

Jimbuna

02-10-18, 07:47 AM

If matters around the negotiating table don't start improving I can see France and Germany picking up the tab.

Skybird

02-10-18, 09:29 AM

France and Germany will pick it up anyway now that the red socialists of the SPD threaten to control both the EU-related foreign miinstry and the money-controlling finance ministry. They already said that they want to end Germany's resistence to the open collectivisation of debts, and the unlimited transfer union. What they do not say is that their plans also include that in principle German private savings are made accessible for EU plundering for financing other states. A direct EU-taxation of citizens additional to national taxation also is on the agenda.

Criminal scumbags.

Jimbuna

02-10-18, 11:06 AM

^ Now that must be rather scary for the everyday German member of the public, should it become a reality.

STEED

02-10-18, 01:13 PM

https://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/78/590x/angela-merkel-917227.jpg

Skybird

02-11-18, 11:06 AM

^ Now that must be rather scary for the everyday German member of the public, should it become a reality.
You overestimate them.

Jimbuna

02-11-18, 11:33 AM

You overestimate them.

I'm sorry, you mean?

Skybird

02-11-18, 11:57 AM

You said the German people would be scared if the looming threats materialize, and I said you overestimate the German people there.

Do these look scared to you?
https://s14-eu5.ixquick.com/cgi-bin/serveimage?url=https:%2F%2Fwww.provisioneronline.c om%2Fext%2Fresources%2F2013January%2Fcattle-in-chute-to-slaughter-LARGE.jpg%3F1358183618&sp=cfdd7faf6279589bc5c371e2299666ac
No panick. No unrest. Just peaceful, relaxed moving in a spiral.

Angela Merkel is the Temple Grandin of politics.

Rockstar

02-11-18, 12:22 PM

/\
|
| That answer deserves an award :up:

Jimbuna

02-12-18, 05:02 AM

Skybird

02-19-18, 05:47 AM

Meanwhile the plot is thickening that the CDU indeed is mulling to replac Merkel. A likely candidate is Annegret Kramp-Karrenbauer.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annegret_Kramp-Karrenbauer

She supports pro-female gender quotas and Merkel's channelling of mass migration into Germany, also was and is against closing of the borders, but is against the equalization of homosexual "marriage" with heterosexual marriage. She supports a strong orientation of Germany towards France. Migrants shall still get imported en masses, but age and identity verification via viable papers or tests shall be mandatory. Her political career started in and focussed on the Saarland. - Usually she is seen as the continution of Merkel's politics.

My prediction: with her not much will change: questions of style at best. Thats why it is said she is Merkel's favourite.

Meanwhile polls see the SPD once again going into another dive after the decision to open coalition negotations.

K.-K. is to become the new CDU general secretary, a clear indication that Merkel has tied herself down to have her as her successor. And for whatever it is worth, Merkel said just days ago she wants to enforce her reign for the full 4 years on the germans. I doubt they let her.

With K.-K. the CDU will continue to erode its values and identity. The gap between professional parasites and ordinary people needing to maintain them, will widen. The party will continue trying to secure power by poaching in the lefts' reserve.

Skybird

02-23-18, 07:42 AM

Well, its Austria, not Germany, but lets not being too picky. At least its the same language.

http://www.ortneronline.at/?p=49467

Could have been germany as well anyway - since we have had the GDR already, where indoctrinational language sounded exactly the same way.

I had a minor accident yesterday, which ended in my left knee getting twisted a bit. It hurts and is thick, I find it hard to walk and cannot mount a bicycle. I am thankful for that, the pain distracts me from the nausea I feel when reading this illustration of cultural degeneration.

Skybird

02-23-18, 07:55 AM

And this one, about a true German hero. Some weeks ago, Ulrich Wegener, founder and chief of the GSG-9 force, has died. And it seems to me that he must habe been a very impressive man, one of those type of men with guts and sense of obligation that the word-mighty modern Zeitgeist hates and despise more than anything else.

http://juedischerundschau.de/gsg-9-als-deutschland-noch-von-israel-lernte-135911201/

Respect, Sir.

English bot-translation:

https://translate.google.de/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=de&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fjuedischerundschau.de%2Fgsg-9-als-deutschland-noch-von-israel-lernte-135911201%2F&edit-text=

There is a new movie about the plane hijacking in Entebbe in the cinemas, a German one. I read the guilt of the terrorists gets relativised and Israel gets loaded a major share of responsibility for the hijacking on ts shoulders. Well, its always the Jews these days again, isn't it.

Skybird

02-24-18, 05:16 AM

"Kasernenbarbie". Very well-fitting description.

The picture the author mentions, is this.

https://translate.google.de/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=de&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F (https://translate.google.de/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=de&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.achgut.com%2Fartikel%2Fgesehen_ gelesen_gehoert_verpasst_barbie_im_feldlager&edit-text=)%2Fwww.achgut.com%2Fartikel%2Fgesehen_gelese n_gehoert_verpasst_barbie_im_feldlager&edit-text= (https://translate.google.de/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=de&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.achgut.com%2Fartikel%2Fgesehen_ gelesen_gehoert_verpasst_barbie_im_feldlager&edit-text=)

http://www.taz.de/picture/826449/624/59160535.jpg

Jimbuna

02-24-18, 09:18 AM

:haha:

And some would have us believe Germans lack a sense of humour.

Skybird

02-24-18, 10:29 AM

Holy Heavens, I am ever more impressed by what Google Translator is capable of now, even subtle nuances most often get corrczly translated and transported. I had skipped a translation on the Vienna gymnasium thre eposts above, since I thought the certain tone of that text would not get covered - but it gets covee dindeed. So, while bengn late, here is the link to the English translation.

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=de&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ortneronline.at%2F%3Fp%3D49467&edit-text=

I am quite certain by now that the AI research by Google's Alpha Zero team plays heavily into their translator, the translator has more or less all of a sudden jumped to such a dramatic level of improved competence that it really jumps to the eye that obviously something dramatic must have happened there some months ago.

Skybird

03-06-18, 05:27 AM

"The National Interest" gets it right about why there is a succession of the hard-dying misery named Great Coalition. Its all about trying to let the AfD erode from within.

Its just that I think it will not work. Chaos and misbehaviour as political program can work very well, and fanatize your fans, Trumps proves it. The AfD will most likely score due to similiar reasons. Italy just two days ago has voted right, there are shifts to the right across Europe. People are pissed. The fat cats in established elites ignore it and think they just need to sit it out.

The SPD controls the finance ministry and that means it controls the budgets and policy fomring in all other minisitries. The SPD also controls the foeeign ministry and thus can shift towards left EU politics as it pleases. Both will cost Germany dearly.

http://nationalinterest.org/feature/do-merkel-germany-have-future-24762

A sharp, pointy comment and analysis by Günther Ederer, one smart guy of a journalist. I read him frequently, have two of his books. Google-Bot translation.

https://translate.google.de/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=de&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.achgut.com%2Fartikel%2Fdast_sch warze_loch&edit-text=

Catfish

03-06-18, 09:30 AM

http://www.zeit.de/2015/05/michael-miersch-blog-henryk-m-broder

It is about hate rhetorics on the website Skybird likes to quote all the time. Translate it if you want.

Skybird

03-06-18, 10:23 AM

Every rejection of political correct mainstream rhethoric and rejection to bow knees to the commanded collective consensus - today is called "hate rhethorics" in Germany. Especially by left-leaning media like Die Zeit who often get their fair dosis of the volleys fired by Achse des Guten.

There are three categories of people that I can not stand, basically and cautiously said. One is the always-pragmatic pragmatist. Although I also know that you can not always have things your way by wantign to go with your head through the wall: being a pragmatist out of a spiritual and character attitude is worthy of contempt. The pragmatists, who even think they are wise, are succeeded by the opportunists, who are to be met with disgust. And finally there are the conformists as probably the worst evil to call. No decent person can tolerate so much vileness. - Ludwig Erhard

On Günther Ederer:
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%BCnter_Ederer.
He is a highly-profiled, very precisely working former TV economy journalist and book author on economy matters. He is decidedly against planned-economy, lying politics and "deep state".

Catfish

03-06-18, 11:59 AM

Translation of the article:
(it is from 2015, and the "axis" blog has only deteriorated, since then)

"Without me!
The publicist Michael Miersch has left the blog "axis of good" because it was too hostile.
By Mariam Lau
February 12, 2015 1 Comment
From the
TIME No. 05/2015

Setting the stage for a liberal counter-public, per Israel, per America, per capitalism, against the downfall conjurations of the environmental movement - that was the founding impulse for the political blog Axis of the Good. When it went online in 2004, it was initially a kind of bottle post, with a small community of writers in the circle of the ecocritical duo Dirk Maxeiner / Michael Miersch and the publicist Henryk M. Broder wrote in Rage. In a good mood, they wanted to bring the good news to the people that the forest does not die, capitalism defeats hunger, and America's military power goes hand in hand with moral integrity. Axis of the good, that was the antipode to the "axis of evil", as the then American President George W. Bush Iraq, Iran and North Korea had identified.

The bottle post from that time has become one of the most visited political blogs in Germany. But just now, with the axis of good reporting one million visitors per month, one of the founders says goodbye: Michael Miersch, 58, is appalled by the direction the blog has taken. He has promised his former colleagues not to talk about his criticisms with other journalists, but he has made them public on Facebook, where hundreds of previous readers have since joined him. "On the axis, a mood has spread," said Miersch, "which has little in common with the originally liberal, cosmopolitan and enlightened attitude." Not only did Axis writers recently sympathize with the AfD's culture-pessimistic attitude and the resentment of the Pegida movement. Miersch also reports hateful letters to the editor. In them, people are phoning about names that sound strange to them. People said "Islam criticism" and said, "I hate everyone who is different from me." The euro is described as the "worst destruction since the Second World War", Germany as a refuge of decadence.

But the real Urkonflikt occurred on an October night 2014. Broder had made in a post about making fun of the fact that in Berlin a senior prosecutor was declared the point of contact for victims of homophobic violence. "Small offenses such as robberies without injuries are not prosecuted," Broder had written. "In the case of perpetrators with a migration background, the origin is deliberately disguised. (...) Both the police and the judiciary lack staff. Everywhere? No, not everywhere." Miersch took the text from the blog, Broder put it back on it, Miersch distanced himself in a separate entry: "422 cases of violence against homosexuals were reported in Berlin within a year," he wrote angrily. "Who, how Broder, thinks you should pay more attention to property offenses or Hütchenspieler instead of beaten-up gays, has a rather perverted sense of justice."

Broder is reluctant to respond to the allegations. "What he rides or has ridden," he says about Miersch's farewell, "I do not know, and I do not care, I'm not his shrink, Dirk and I go on anyway and wish Michael only the best." Miersch had never complained to them about the political orientation or a censorship of his views, says Broder. "We have a very wide range of opinions, and we are only one-sided when it comes to German anti-Americanism, anti-Semitism and the energy transition, and Michael has never bothered about that, on the contrary." Miersch would even continue to be a shareholder of the "axis of good".

With his mockery of "left-wing sluts", about gays, the long-Islamized Germany and the "parasitic pack" of do-gooders, Broder and his colleague Maxeiner are now assured of an applause they would never have achieved with the original circle of freedom-loving homeless."

Of course it is easier and need less effort to just bash and hate foreigners. Problem is the worst evil the world suffers from is not the strength of evil, but the weakness of the better.