Europe's migrant problem

[Dowly]

Meanwhile in Finland...

Interior Minister Petteri Orpo estimates that two thirds of asylum seekers come to Finland in hopes of a better standard of living.

http://yle.fi/uutiset/interior_ministry_finland_set_to_reject_two_thirds _of_asylum_seekers/8446795

[Dowly]

Compared to where they're coming from even the Antarctic has a higher standard of living...
The point is, they (the 2/3) are in no need of asylum.

[mapuc]

Earlier today a sort of panic occurred in the Danish Parliament

Each week thousand of Immigrants cross the border between Germany and Denmark. 99 % of these are not interested in Denmark they are heading for Sweden.

Why this panic ?

Today the Swedish government announced that from 12 noon tomorrow Thursday a randomly border controls will be established between Denmark and Sweden and between Germany and Sweden.

I guess Denmark will do the same make a randomly border controls between Germany and Denmark.

Markus

[Skybird]

Interesting. Reality catche sup with ideology, maybe:

In 2014's general elections, Fredrik Reinfeld from the Moderates (second largest party in the Riksdag and coalition leader in government), told the world that Sweden shall have no borders , and that the country is not owned by the people living there since generations and having formed and build it to be what it now is, but that it belongs to new migrants going there and that migrants shall be who own the place.

Looking at the immense problems Sweden in the past 20 years have imported with he immense Islamic movement into Sweden (without getting any compensation so far, only troubles, troubles and ever more troubles), that were not only empty words. He meant it.

And this should be the role model Germans now want to follow? We have given up sovereignty over our borders ( a violation of a constitutional demand), anbd everybody in germany claiming that the control over the borders and the right to close them or to refuse people to cross them, risks to get called a Nazi, a racist and a traitor.

If you do not agree to violate the (claimed democratic) constitution, you are a Nazi, a racist, a traitor. :huh:

Well, things really turned into a madhouse, haven't they. Can it get any more absurd?

Its hopeless.

[Tchocky]

If you think these news and quotes have nothing to do with the migration problem, you better thinks twice - and if needed: a third and fourth time until you finally get it.




"Let's infiltrate Europe by mass migration. Hmm, it's not going fast enough. Better slaughter tens if not hundreds of thousands of our own people in a bloody civil war to get the rest of our fanatical womb-weapons moving to Europe. That'll definitely do it. Genius!"

[Betonov]

Tchocky, don't you know that's how us (south slavs) did it ??
We infiltrated the Roman Empire under guise as refugees from the Huns and 1500 years later, bang, our own state on the ashes of the Roman Empire.

[Betonov]

Laughed out loud on this one today


https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/12249953_10153929040512018_5835426195271702378_n.j pg?oh=cf1f56e5990b73def0045d88da86346b&oe=56F66A96

Guardians of the border
How the Slovene politicians created a war-zone out of the country

(left to right:defence minister Katič, farming, forestry and food minister Židan, prime mnister Cerar, interior minister Györkös Žnidar and our favourite clown, exterior minister Erjavec)

[Bubblehead1980]

Well all you bleeding heart, naive, open borders types, are you happy?

Turns out one of the Paris attackers(prob more but one confirmed) was a "refugee" from Syria. Tolerance of savagery gets people killed.

[Nippelspanner]

Turns out one of the Paris attackers(prob more but one confirmed) was a "refugee" from Syria.
(viable) Source?

[mapuc]

(viable) Source?

Some minutes ago I saw and read in the subtitle a French person(think he was some police officer) standing infront of many journalist

- We also found a Syrian Passport

[Bubblehead1980]

(viable) Source?

http://www.wsj.com/articles/paris-attacks-syrian-migrant-was-among-the-bombers-1447547354

WSJ is a credible source, respected. I want to see how ABC, NBC, etc reports this or will the cover it up by not mentioning it in the name of "tolerance", we shall see.This is all over place though, not just a opinion driven political sites.

Please tell me you are not shocked? A five year old could see this happening. One occasion where I wish I was wrong and not gloating, its just reality, the sad reality the decades of not handling this problem has lead to.end rant.

[Nippelspanner]

Not "shocked" from that point of view, no, but then again it means little to nothing that some "refugee" was among the attackers.
All he did, he could have done with or without abusing the current stream of refugees.

What about those who aren't looking for trouble but legit refuge from a war-torn country? Ah I forgot... "let's just nuke them all".

:salute:

[CaptainRamius]

If someone already hasn't said it, one Paris's terrorists (the ones who attacked Paris) is said to have entered the country via Immigration routes.

And considering that many people dislike immigrants, having a possible terrorist among them isn't very helpful to the refugees

[em2nought]

Ah I forgot... "let's just nuke them all".

:salute:

Not all, just enough so that they decide messing with us(the west) isn't such a very good idea at all. Are there any Japanese people alive still? I think so. How do they fit in now?

All the crying about consuming too much of the earth's resources, and here we are trying to reduce the surplus population, but no.

Two birds, one stone. :D

[Buddahaid]

Not all, just enough so that they decide messing with us(the west) isn't such a very good idea at all. Are there any Japanese people alive still? I think so. How do they fit in now?

All the crying about consuming too much of the earth's resources, and here we are trying to reduce the surplus population, but no.

Two birds, one stone. :D

That's probably the number one way to ensure WWIII gets going full tilt.

[em2nought]

The Japanese love America.

http://l.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/bI4eZ8WlQOwQzhUtf5_HNg--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3NfbGVnbztmaT1maWxsO2g9Mzc3O2lsPXBsYW 5lO3B4b2ZmPTUwO3B5b2ZmPTA7cT03NTt3PTY3MA--/http://media.zenfs.com/en_us/News/afp.com/9b987ea37e43d6def7d46239521bf2b55e9e6663.jpg



Well yeah, I don't want that unnatural thing flying over my head either. I still don't trust it. I don't think they've even used it anywhere they expect to take ground fire? Or have they now?

[CaptainRamius]

No osprey! No! VTOL bird bad!

Well yeah, I don't want that unnatural thing flying over my head either. I still don't trust it. I don't think they've even used it anywhere they expect to take ground fire? Or have they now?

I personally love the Osprey. Heavy lift capabilities in a plane package that can do VSTOL/VTOL

[CaptainRamius]

I think the Osprey is coming on alright now, I think they've fixed most of the problems with it and things tend to fall off it a bit less now.
The local USAF base has a flight of them and they come over from time to time, nice birds, but I still prefer the Chinook myself, and of course the dear old Huey. :salute:

I love the look of the Chinook compared to the Osprey, it can carry more too, but I guess mobility is more important then lift weight. And the Osprey can in-air refuel F-18s, too.

[Betonov]

http://i.imgur.com/auFYBs2.jpg?1

Slovenian army will mobilise 200 reserve members to augment the existing force at the border.
I guess it has somethign to do with the police strike that began yesterday.

Slovenia refused entry for 150 Maroccan nationals as they were deemed economic migrants, but Croatia refused them and then they were sent forward with the rest.
OK, this was retared, Croats are acting like morons (as ususal), using the path of least resistance and just sending them forward like it's not theirs problem. It is and if they just won't move their south slavic and illyrian asses then they should pay Slovenia for the problems they cause.
And 150 migrants refused for being economic ??? What the hell, the majority there are economic, send them to Zagreb.

[Betonov]

Police strike? Firstly, I'm impressed that your government hasn't banned the police from being able to strike like ours has, and secondly...wow, talk about timing. :doh: Ah well, I guess if they want to get their message across, doing it while they have the government over a barrel is probably the best time to do it.


We have one of the best police force in the world, in regard on how they deal with the population. And they are payed peanuts. Police cars have over-used tires, bad breaks and the top levels in the interior ministry buy themselves audis for ''official duties'' and expensive vacations. This strike is the third one this year.



Pity about the migrant tennis with Zagreb, but these sort of things are bound to happen, I mean look at Hungary. :dead: 150 seems a bit of an arbitary number though, probably a test to see what would happen. :hmmm:

We and Croats are like 2 spoiled seblings. Always in eachothers hair and will do everyrthing possible to piss eachother off, short of war and murder.

[August]

The Japanese love America.

Okinawan Japanese you mean. I wonder how much they love the Red Chinese.

[Betonov]

I seems one migrant sneaked off the train while it was waiting in Jesenice for clearance to proceed to Austria and...

this is too good to be true...

went to buy himself kebab :har:

[Betonov]

The most hilarious thing was, a cop that was tasked with finding him told me, is how he was in a foreign land in a foreign town and he made a bee-line to the kebab stand like he smelled the meat :)

[mapuc]

It is a diplomatic crisis on the way between Denmark and Sweden because this refugee crisis last have the Swedish authorities tried to send 200 immigrant return to Denmark, but Denmark refuses outright to accept them.

Markus

[eddie]

Looks like Turkey is getting what it wants from the EU. Slow down the flow of refugees, keep them in Turkey, only it will cost the EU 3 Billion Euros a year to do that. Plus Turkey wants in , to become a member of the EU. Plus a few other things. Can't beat that deal with a stick,lol

http://news.yahoo.com/eu-hopes-turkish-help-slow-migrants-summit-000950422.html

[Schroeder]

I hope I'll never see the day when that country becomes a EU member or I might actually have to move to Canada or Australia.:/\\!!

[Betonov]

Menawhile the Macedonians are trying to stop the tide and have frequent clashes with migrants forcing their way in.

[Jimbuna]

Turkey are playing the odds to their greatest advantage.

[eddie]

Is it hard or easy for someone in the EU to travel to another country that is in the EU? Because if Turkey becomes a member of the EU, think of how easy it would be for someone from Turkey to be freely moving about Europe. That is if they are really from Turkey. Seem's to me to be an open door for the wrong kind person to have such easy access to Europe.

[Jimbuna]

Is it hard or easy for someone in the EU to travel to another country that is in the EU? Because if Turkey becomes a member of the EU, think of how easy it would be for someone from Turkey to be freely moving about Europe. That is if they are really from Turkey. Seem's to me to be an open door for the wrong kind person to have such easy access to Europe.

Missed this post earlier but the above will only be a concern to some of the UK population if Britain remains in the EU.

[Rockstar]

He says they are "honoured" to give back to communities "that have so warmly taken us in".



Riiiiight, all anyone needs to do is read between the lines and they'll soon realize thats just what he wants you to think so you let your guard down. Then its off with your head. Did you check to see if he turned that shovel back in when he was done with it? He could you know easily sharpen the blade and turn it into a WMD. They're clever like that.

[Jimbuna]

I see only six, one must have escaped :hmmm: :)

[Nippelspanner]

Riiiiight, all anyone needs to do is read between the lines and they'll soon realize thats just what he wants you to think so you let your guard down.
:subsim:

[Betonov]

If a shovel is nice and flat it has amazing aerodynamics. A perfect javelin with decapitation abilities.

I'd give this guys a seat in the posible imigration commitee, who get's to get in and who goes back.

[eddie]

Looks like they are still having problems in Corsica.

http://news.yahoo.com/corsica-demos-banned-two-days-anti-arab-protests-155353271.html

[Schroeder]

Yeah, ok, it's only seven of them, but that's still seven more than most people would believe would do such a thing. :03:
I can't remember that anyone here said that one couldn't find 7 decent people among tens of thousands of refugees.:doh:

[Rockstar]

:har: :arrgh!:

http://i1196.photobucket.com/albums/aa408/jky242/f10b170e21843b8f6a2f9007e0b619a1.jpg

:rotfl2:

[Nippelspanner]

I can't remember that anyone here said that one couldn't find 7 decent people among tens of thousands of refugees.:doh:
This.

[Rockstar]

Is it hard or easy for someone in the EU to travel to another country that is in the EU? Because if Turkey becomes a member of the EU, think of how easy it would be for someone from Turkey to be freely moving about Europe. That is if they are really from Turkey. Seem's to me to be an open door for the wrong kind person to have such easy access to Europe.

We had the same problem you're thinking about. Since Puerto Rico is a territory of the United States every Puerto Rican was able to freely enter the U.S. But it was soon realized others were taking advantage of that freedom. Haitians and Dominicans for instance once smuggled into Puerto Rico dressed like a tourist simply had to go purchase an airline ticket and off they went to the U.S.

Now everyone leaving Puerto Rico is required to have travel papers in hand when boarding transportation to the U.S. Same with Canada, before all you needed was a drivers license to cross the boarder, now, a passport or similar I.D. is necessary.

Mexico? well thats another story.

Problem is most of these measures simply keep the honest people honest. If someone is motivated they can circumvent any of these checkpoints and requirements and get in.

[yubba]

We'll be calling the EU, Eurrabia, before long, you folks are being invaded,, God Bless Trump for starting the dicussion because some said they are only comeing here for love ,,,rrrrrriiiigghtttt Jebby.

[Nippelspanner]

God Bless Trump for starting the dicussion
What complete garbage, but I'm not surprised.
Just a classic yubba.

:/\\!!

[Rockstar]

We'll be calling the EU, Eurrabia, before long, you folks are being invaded,, God Bless Trump for starting the dicussion because some said they are only comeing here for love ,,,rrrrrriiiigghtttt Jebby.

Uff-da! Im with ya Yubba just look what happened to Minnesota! Norwegians, making up 12 percent of the state’s population. Then there's those 2 million Minnesotans who say they’re German making up 28 percent of the state’s population. People up there might spell it 'house' and 'mouse' but they all still pronounce it like haus and maus, can you believe it?

Then there are those low down no good dirty Brits! They're everywhere, naming places New England, New York. Even going so far as to name places Charleston and Virginia after their own kings and queens. The nerve of those people, they even went on to impose their language on others, now everyone must speak it.

This has been gong on too long we need to stop this nonsense now and get our Murican language back. Far too many Europeans in this country messin things up! They either need to get Muricanized NOW or deported fast!

Head for the hills the end is near!

[Betonov]

We already metricanised NASA.
The average Joe Citizen is next. A decade from now you'll all be cooking in grams and drink in litres

http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/8f/8fc314d391f2f462837246c9a2c6830c1853acaed5da35caf4 d344c54491aba1.jpg

[em2nought]

We'll be calling the EU, Eurrabia

Has a nice ring to it.

Just because a few nice apples immigrated once, it doesn't mean there's going to be any nice oranges. :har: Orange trees have diseases, and the only way to treat it is to burn them down. :D

[Betonov]

Has a nice ring to it.

Just because a few nice apples immigrated once, it doesn't mean there's going to be any nice oranges. :har: Orange trees have diseases, and the only way to treat it is to burn them down. :D

I think the only place in Europe where oranges can be cultivated is Bosnia and that one is already muslim :hmmm:

[em2nought]

I think the only place in Europe where oranges can be cultivated is Bosnia and that one is already muslim :hmmm:

Oranges grow well on some parts of Crete also.

[Betonov]

Oranges grow well on some parts of Crete also.

I know, I was joking.
Anywhere along the mediteranian or below 40°N lattitude would do.
Bosnia, Italy, Greece, Spain...

[Nippelspanner]

Mmhh.. Oranges... :hmm2:

[August]

Oranges grow well on some parts of Crete also.

They was selling cretes of oranges at the store the other day,.... oh wait. :hmmm:

[Buddahaid]

Clearly we need to build a wall to keep terrorist oranges out. :nope:

But only the radicalized oranges from Kenya.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHfGjvdiGhQ

[Jimbuna]

They was selling cretes of oranges at the store the other day,.... oh wait. :hmmm:

http://i.imgur.com/WDaY85q.jpg

[Schroeder]

Plenty of women have been sexually harassed and robbed in Cologne on New Year's Eve by a mob of ~ 1.000 "migrants".
http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/01/04/revealed-1000-migrants-brawl-rape-sexually-assault-steal-one-german-train-station-new-years-eve/

In our local newspaper they say that all victims have confirmed that the group of "migrants" consisted of Arabs and North African men.
But they are just white supremacist bigots of course who have planned the whole thing themselves most likely.
No friends, we need more immigration from Muslim countries to enrich our culture. We really can't do without!:yeah:

[Dowly]

http://i.imgur.com/08NgBP0.jpg

[Schroeder]

http://i.imgur.com/08NgBP0.jpgIf you want a more reliable source here is the German Tagesschau website:http://www.tagesschau.de/inland/uebergriffe-koeln-103.html

I'm afraid I couldn't find any proper English speaking source but the Tagesschau site states pretty much the same and so does our local newspaper.

[Dowly]

I'm afraid you have misunderstood me. :yep:

[Schroeder]

I'm afraid you have misunderstood me. :yep:
Oh, sorry. I thought that was comical Ali as in that the news was fake or overblown.:oops:

[Cybermat47]

Those rapist scum are a disgrace to the entire Human race :nope:

[Skybird]

Above story.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35231046


City police chief Wolfgang Albers called it "a completely new dimension of crime". The men were of Arab or North African appearance, he said.
(...)
What is particularly disturbing is that the attacks appear to have been organised. Around 1,000 young men arrived in large groups, seemingly with the specific intention of carrying out attacks on women.
Police in Hamburg are now reporting similar incidents on New Year's Eve in the party area of St Pauli. One politician says this is just the tip of the iceberg.
And there are real concerns about what will happen in February when the drunken street-parties of carnival season kick off.

I know the place, were at that station myself several times during the past three years. Last summer they even had many construction fences in the surrounding area (don'T know whether they are still there), the roads and bridge pillars got renewed, it seems. No way to easily escape, and many dark hidden places under nearby roadbridges. Even worse to navigate if you are not familiar with the place.

Just days ago another main media dared to report - by German standards quite frankly - about the immense problem that Kurdish and Lebanese huge clans pose in cities like Berlin, Hamburg, and places in the Ruhrgebiet. Police unions under the hand talk of no-go zones for police patrols when the mikes are switched off. A female police officer, by name I assume of Greek descent, tours assemblies in Germany in her free time and speaks of how politicians and cultural relaticists as well as superforgiving pedagogic judges with surreal hopes all work together to - by final effect - erode the law and order. Violence against police officers now is a daily routine problem, and always the same cultural backgrounds show up. In some cities officers actively refuse to patrol in certain areas, giving fear for their lives as reason.

The problems grow since years. Consequences: none.

Oh, wait. Some politicians I read earlier this day in the media, saying that these events should not lead us to make conclusions on the migration policy of Germany, it would be cheap and a discrimination to consider the cultural background of people coming here. Some days ago another one said we should follow other (stupid) countries example and hide ethnic background and cultural origin of criminal offenders from the public. Out of sight - problem solved: that is the message.

We now behave like the Swedes started to do years ago: ignorant, cowardly, driven by indifference and daydreaming and ignoring the root problems over fears to be seen as politically incorrect. They pay the price. So will we. Serves us right.

Its nice and reassuring that the new year starts like the old one has ended. It gives a sense of continuance, stability.

[Dowly]

Of course, if you're going to be taking on the refugees and not spreading them out across Europe, then you need to make sure that whatever you're accomodating them in is better quality than your prisons or else you're going to get people deliberately breaking the law to get a comfy bed in prison. :nope:
Considering their names have not been released, do you know where these people lived and in what conditions?

I don't, just a honest question.

[mapuc]

I got mad when I heard about this in Köln

Germany and other countries in Europe has open they hearts so refugees can seek safe haven and then some of them does this as a thank you Germany/Europe.

If was in command(or what the correct word may be) I would, when I found those who did this, send them back to where they came from.

Markus

[Dowly]

I'm just saying in general, not trying to excuse their actions, but just pointing out that it's something that could become a problem in the future alongside the current criminal activity.
Sorry, I took it as a continuation to what you said before it.

[mapuc]

To be honest I'm a bit confused

According to the witness the persons who did this was of African and Arabian origin

In the news they say, that those who did this was drunk.

I thought it was not allowed for a Muslim to drink and get drunk

Markus

[Jimbuna]

To be honest I'm a bit confused

According to the witness the persons who did this was of African and Arabian origin

In the news they say, that those who did this was drunk.

I thought it was not allowed for a Muslim to drink and get drunk

Markus

There are many things a Muslim should never do but as in any other religion there are those who do.

[mapuc]

There are many things a Muslim should never do but as in any other religion there are those who do.

You are right

Markus

[Schroeder]

From what I see on our news it seems like those guys were not refugees but criminal gangs that have been operating here for some time already. It would have surprised me if it had been refugees to be honest. The Syrians I meet here when passing the local camp try to be friendly.

[mapuc]

From what I see on our news it seems like those guys were not refugees but criminal gangs that have been operating here for some time already. It would have surprised me if it had been refugees to be honest. The Syrians I meet here when passing the local camp try to be friendly.

I heard that too on Heute-Journal, where the over-mayor of Köln said something like you wrote.

She also said something about not projecting on a certain group or groups

Markus

[Alex]

I'm surprised no one has started a topic on this. It's all over the news here. Thousands of migrants trying to get to Germany, England, and Sweden, among other countries. Greece is overrun, Hungary erecting a fence, thousands of Syrians and Africans drowning in the Med or dying in lorries. What the heck's going on over there?

http://www.gilad.co.uk/writings/2016/1/6/charlie-hebdo-one-year

That one sums it all up fairly well, finally :yep: - pretty good food for thought.

[Skybird]

http://www.spiegel.de/panorama/justiz/koeln-das-steht-im-internen-polizeibericht-zur-silvesternacht-a-1070837.html

Excerpts from the internal police report (in German). A desaster for politics (who had forbidden to activate more police resources), and some stories mentioned that are quite interesting. That asylum seekers triumphantly ripped their papers before the police's eyes to pieces, blocking them from advancing to women calling for help, telling them with a grin that they (the police) can do noithing about the paper ripping and that they will get new papers immediately. Demanding them to treat them with respect, for they came from Syria and Madame Merkel had invited them.

The situation was so much out of control that the police expected to find killed and injured people, and feared lethal violence. Long-serving officers said that in 3 decades of service they have not been confronted with such amounts of dispise and lack of respect, ever. Over one hundred charges have been filed by victims, one third of these for sexual molesting, and several rapes. 16 suspects have been identified so far - of severla hundreds accomplices. The police union says it has high doubts that even just a single perpetrator will ever be sentenced.

Cologne is a known place of administrative incompetence and has a long record of according failures and appointing incapable key personnel. The current police president is under fire already for seveal severe failing before. The political landscape is extremely left-leaning, infantile, and driven by multi-culti. Cologne is one of Europe major breeding hotspots for Islamic "extremists", Germany'S Molenbeek, so to speak. Politicians meet these challenges by always talking big-mouthed "Wischi-Waschi" (babbling), appeals to social conscience and socilaist multi-culti, and preventing measurements of a more promising, robust nature. The police forces in the region have been significantly reduced in the past years, and a lot of multi-culti dialogue with non-integrating sub cultures is going on. At the same time organised crime by hugh Kurdish-Lebanese clans is blossoming. Halleluja! Mer losse de Dom in Kölle!

I hate this city, I sometimes have to go there, for personal finance businesses. Ein Saftladen. No wonder that German carnival focusses there. For more than just a fool'S parade there just is not enough.

The mayor of Cologne - an explicitly stupid women who got stabbed weeks ago by a desperate German going mad over her explciit desire to bring as many refugees to Germany as possible - and for that achievement of getting stabbed got elected by the rest with clear majority (sympathy due to victimhood always pays off these days) - gave women the advise to always maintain at least one armslength distance to foreign men. :up: This well-meant, competent Belehrung was countered by a TV comedian with what has turned into a viral hit in Germany: he said it would be better to wear a Burka for self-protection against sexual harassment, and that he would recommend this option instead.

Meanwhile, it became known that in in Weil am Rhein a group of Syrian young males age 15-25 caught two German girls 14 and 15, and group-raped them during the night of New Year's Eve. The government of that state seems to have tried to delay or prevent informing the public (which happens often in Germany when culturally sensitive culture-enrichment groups are affected and political correctness and left ideology fear that their myths and utopias once again could suffer a scratch)). Two of those scumbags live in Netherlands and Belgium, of the Syrians residing in Germany two are refugees, one is a formally recognised asylum seeker. German authorities prevented a formal warrant of arrest for two of them, not before one individual took the opportuntity to be released again from custody to try escaping from Germany, such a warrant finally was released.

A human rights watch group has warned the police against discrimination for that, citing the social perspective for failing integration if young people in such a fragile age get arrested and kept in prison.

The brain worm infestation is spreading in the new year as well, it seems.

---

Official government claims say that the flow of migrants from Balkans has gone down over the past weeks. Now a huge flood of migrants from Marocco is coming in. Its because of the Syrian war, you know. Sister parties CDU and CSU do a lot of stage-thundering over installing limits, the Bavarian CSU wants a yearly limit of 200,000 per year, Merkel stubbornly says all is good, all will be well, Europe will follow, and that there will be no limits whatever as long as she rules.

Yeah. Europe will follow. Sure.

The good thing from all this is that the cracks in the EU are deepening. Mass migration, Euro devaluing, globalization fumbling, economy stalling, China staggering, Islam, new fiscal and stock crisis gearing up, rediscovery of regional cultural identity and sovereignty in many EU provinces - interesting mix. Could become a perfect storm if several factors of all this climax simultaneously.

[Skybird]

A policeman, who due to fear for his job speaks anonymous, reveals that the official and media reports try to form wrong impresisons oin what went on. He claims the facts gets distorted completely. Media say that the sexual threats just were for intimidation and distraction and that the focus of the hundreds of organisewd clan gangster was to steal and rob purses and cellphones. However, police officers who were at the locaiton said iti was exactly the other way around: the focus laid on sexual attacks and attenmpted and completed rape, the stealign and robbing were acts of oppoirtunistic crime resultriung from the context of the victims being helpless. The policeman speaking out refers to a well-known and often documented phenomenon from the arab world, when crowds of men surround a girl or woman and then grope and/or even gang-rape her.

http://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/article150733779/Vorrangig-ging-es-den-Taetern-um-Sexualstraftaten.html

Die Welt is no tabloid like Bild and no exotic radical niche paper, but one of the nationwide mainstream newspapers in Germany, comparable maybe to The Independent.

Personally I think these events cannot be surprising, but also probably are not completely to be explained by an Islamic background, but a specific socialisation in a patriarchalic, female-hostile culture that considers all girls and women as lower beings per se and Western women as nothign else but sexual slaves, and bitches, free to be f##### whenever some male apeman from the stoneage feels his little thing in his trousers is itching.

A new revison of Germany's paragraph 130 STGB (penal code) sinc ebeginning of this year allows to prosecute any such comments as I just made on the grounds of that any criticising of a person for its relgious or cultural background equals hate speech and incitement of the people. No matter your evidence of reasonability of argument, speaking out the truth, no matter how strong your argument may or may not be, now can bring you to jail. Driving force behind this rewriting, of course were the lefts and socialists and Islamophile lobbies that campaign for more equality for Islam and making it untouchable for any kind of critical reflection. Many indeed integrated Muslim migrants living in Germany since long time, just shake their heads in disbelief over this latest of German follies.

Don't be mistaken, the intention behind this is neither noble, nor honest. It is supression of free speech to prevent the unmasking of a completely eroding and collapsing Islam policy by the establishment, and it is appeasing born out of cowardice. The criterions for "Volksverhetzung" now are so vague and open for just anythging that indeed just any critical opinion the poltical establishment does not like, can be labelled as a threat to public peace, and prosecuted. The hurdles now are unbelievably low. Almost non-existent. Just a claim for your guilt can briung you into trouble without evidence, since the burden of evidence is cleverly reversed. You are not assumed innocent as long as your guilt is not proven, but you are seen as guilty as long as you cannot prove your innocence. The burden of evidence is completely on you, not on the person raising the charges.

Can it become any more insane?

Bloggers in Germany are effected by according laws since some time already, too. Also forum maintainers, who are now fully legally responsible for any claims made by visitors (something the EU wants to push on whole continental level). Many privately run forums simply do not have the personell ressources to have a 24/7 around the clock checking of each and every posting, and I know of four such forums who went offline past year for these reasons. which is exactly the wanted political goal: gag unwanted opinion forums being critical of the official party policy (yes, party - singular. We have a political Gleichschaltung in parliaments, and only block parties bei former Eastgerman example. Its called consensus-tyranny. Debate is allowed as long as you end up nodding off what the party/state council/government wants you to agree to).

All in the name of protecting the socially weak and unrightfully targetted, of course.

Yes, of course. Free speech dies a slow death in Germany. That is no big difference to what already is the status quo sinc elong, since the free thinking had already been assassinated long time ago.

If he would fall under German legislation, Neal now would need to think twice before allowing GT forum to run on the way it did in the past years. He could end up in hell's kitchen just because I made a post. You think I'm kidding? Unfortunately I know better. As I said. I knew four forums that now went offline in the past 6 months, that dealt with poltical libertarianism. they were much tamer in views and opinions, than I am rergarding migration, Islam and the like. MUCH tamer, and for my taste quite EU-friendly.

And its raining all day and evening long. Right a perfect day to feel grumpy like this.

[Skybird]

Police in Cologne should have known quite early in the night that amongst the attackers there were many migrants from Syria, Iraq and Afghanistan, writes the Kölner Stadtanzeiger, a local newspaper. But the information was withheld in an attempt to completely hide it from media and the public. Police sources reveal that releasing that info was considered to be "politically delicate" ("politisch heikel").

[Schroeder]

The situation in Europe is so critical that Paris has been moved into Germany.

I think he means it as two separate things. The shootout in Paris is one and the massive sexual harassment / robberies going on in Germany by Arabs and North Africans is the other.

Even though I don't like that clown he has a point there.:/\\!!

[Skybird]

The dimension of the political scandal increases. The evening's main news programs of both channels of the state TV have oepned with extensive reports of what i summarised above, followed by 20 minutes special programs after the 19:00 Heute broadcast and the 20:00 Tagesschau right now.

It seems that the police has arrested very many more people already very early on that evening, than the city's and the state'S government wanted to let the public know. Early incoming calls by the police on location for reinforcements, were rejected. Now no longer just one but several other policemen who were on location, gave anonymous testimony on the events. It has not been just "Northafricans" who were found in paper controls, but indeed many asylum seekers and migrants with ID papers form the federal office for migration, coming from Syria, Iraq and Afghanistan.

The police president as well as the political leadership now is under pressure to give a solid explanation why this has not been admitted earlier, and when and by whom the order to try to hide it from the public was given. The Why should be obvious.

Level of frustration amongst police officers seems to be at an alltime high. Many said that in that night they faced a hostile, mocking mob that stood like a wall and that left them completely helpless and showed zero respect for the state, police, law even when a victim was yelling for help just meters away. The police'S meaning and selfunderstanding - was reduced to a total ZERO. It seems this has shaklen many officer's psychic balance.

I have some advise there. Weapons out, opening fire. If not to kill - not that I would mind that much - then at least for self-defence, and crippling criminals that maul a victim.

Another problem is the absolutely crazy hurdles there are to send back asylum seekers who even were sentenced for criminal deeds of theirs. Refugees cannot be sent back if they are sentenced to a prison term of less than two years only. Recognised asylum seekers whose asyum request is being worked on, even need to be sentenced to a prison term of three years in order to open the option to kick them out. And the n there is the Geneva Convention, and the rule of the German Constitutional High Court that demand that nobody gets kicked out, no matter how bad his crime record is, if in his land of origin he is being threatened with risks to his health or life.

It is our moral obligation to harbour and protect even the biggest and greatest scum of the Earth.

I reject to give my approval to such evil, wicked and underhanded "moral" standards that demand me to rape my own moral values in favour of this. I refuse to cooperate in legitimising our self-sacrificing in order to protect the criminal scum coming from other countries. If I go to another place and I am the guest, and ask for help - then I behave. And if I don't, and abuse hospitality, the others have all right nature can provide them with to beat me up, kick me out, even leave me dead. If I do not like that, then I should have thought about it before I started to play foul. No rights without duties. No favours without proper behaviour. the current asylum policy and international rulings on, I am opposed to since already long time.

[mapuc]

I think he means it as two separate things. The shootout in Paris is one and the massive sexual harassment / robberies going on in Germany by Arabs and North Africans is the other.

Even though I don't like that clown he has a point there.:/\\!!


English isn't my native language, I see the punctuation after the word level and before the word Germany. So for me it means start of a new sentence.

Markus

[Skybird]

Police now says that "Northafricans" were a tiny minority amongst those who were controlled. The majority were newly arrived Syrians - say the police officers who were there and who did the paper work. The main aim of the mob was sexual amusement in the first- by groping and raping girls and women.

The whole earlier "theory" that it was a huge organised crime orchestrated by criminal clans to rob travellers, now is in doubt.

http://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/article150735341/Die-meisten-waren-frisch-eingereiste-Asylbewerber.html

I bet money that this idiot who optimists still label as "police president", already is done. Its only a question of time until he gets sacked now. Just too late - and this although he has been at the centre of several other scandals in the past. But this desaster now is one too much.

[Wildcat]

Europe is doomed if it continues to let in these animals. And that is what they are - they are wild animals incapable of controlling themselves. They have no place in normal western society and should be restricted to the middle east.

Idiotic leftism is the death of western civilization. :down: Immigration screening should be far more strict. If the applicants can't pass a language exam and cultural exam of the country they're trying to immigrate to they should be refused entry.

Saudi Arabia, UAE etc. should all be taking these savage rapists and robbers in.

[Tchocky]

Oh good.

[mapuc]

A friend who's from Syria and a Danish Politician wrote this on his wall

I have used google translate and tried to make it as perfect English as I could.

"The events in Cologne with collective cultural sexual assault on free Western women, confirms our proposal, that we only retrieves families from the UN-recognized refugee camps in the neighboring areas - exactly as Canada, which was praised for the initiative. Current asylum system is angrily sparkling lack of solidarity, since it concerns only those who have the elbows, the means and relations to come to Denmark - and about 40% of those who come are single men - not all democratic-minded men, who have not learned to respect the right of women to decide over their own lives, bodies and sexuality - and it is deeply troubling. Their primitive behavior will result in more confrontations, it is only the beginning, and those that are going to go as much besides the women are the many pro-democracy and law-abiding Arabs / Muslims in the West / DK. By retrieving only families themselves, perhaps we can prevent Cologne conditions"

[mapuc]

Oh good.

Indeed

I respect his right to have his say, BUT I do not support his say-It's way to much

Markus

[Wildcat]

Unlike most of the people in this thread I spent around 8 months in extremely close proximity to Turkish, Turkish Kurd and Syrian "refugees" in immigration camps, and let me tell you it was a living nightmare. The men in those societies are missing fundamental emotions and ability to control themselves. The minute they see or even HEAR a female they go insane and wild with comments about forced sex, rape, they do not care how uncomfortable it makes the woman. I saw this to be true *with my own eyes* for the vast majority of "refugees" from those nations.

It is easy to armchair quarterback but if you could actually see what is going on in their society you would tuck your tail between your legs and run as far as you could.

Prior to that experience I felt that refugees should be given a place to stay no matter what, but after seeing what is ACTUALLY going on, I feel very little compassion for most of them.
You do realize that probably something close to 95% of these refugees are nothing but people who want to work and make more money than they can at home? They certainly are not running from conflict - most of them make false claims about being tortured, persecuted etc. but it never stands up to even light scrutiny. They do not care for the culture of whatever host nation they're moved to. They are there to work and they KNOW that they're abusing the refugee system in order to stay there, and they don't give a damn about the local laws and have no intention of learning them.

These freaks make it impossible for people who actually are being persecuted to save themselves. By defending mass immigration you actually make it impossible for people who are TRULY suffering to get help.

In my whole time with them, I only met one guy, a 17 year old Turkish Kurd who was not a nutcase. He had a 16 year old wife living elsewhere with a 1 year old baby, and another on the way, and he was stuck in the camp - once they go into the refugee camps they can't go back, it's prohibited by law. His case ended up getting speed-tracked after he claimed to be seeing ghosts and repeatedly peeing in his pants. He got a visa within a week of doing that. If he hadn't done it he'd still be in the camp.

But hey, that's just my opinion after spending a year inside one of those camps and finding out about them in detail, what do I know.

[Tchocky]

I spent four years in the Canadian Navy.

Ho, the stories I could tell.

Or was it the Cambodian Navy.

Hard to remember but they're ANIMALS I TELLS YA.

[mapuc]

Now I'm sort of confused.

Markus

[Schroeder]

Now I'm sort of confused.

Markus
If I interpret it correctly Tchocky doubts Wildcat's story about having been with refugees for 8 months.

I myself have some problems believing that those people were from Syria both because of personal encounters with some and because of what a friend of mine who is with the "voluntary firefighters" told me. He drove a group of refugees to new homes. He said one could tell the Syrians from all the others simply because they were well mannered, did what they were told to do and were still pretty shaken from fleeing Syria with many showing PTSD symptoms.
However he also told me that he could describe the Afghans in that group with just two words: Asocial Thugs....:shifty:

[Skybird]

One of the articles I linked to, meanwhile got translated into English and published in their international edition:

in English: http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/cologne-attacks-on-new-years-produced-chaos-say-police-a-1070894.html

What nobody has mentioned so far: the train station and its plaza are bordering directly to the famous Cologne Cathedral perimeter. These attacks took place right in the foregarden and the shadow of the huge church. - Imagine Western infidels daring to behave like this in front of the huge mosque in Rotterdam, raping Muslim women and girls - or imagine the scene happening at some god-forsaken village mosque in a Muslim country! An outcry would already have gone around the world, mabye embassie would burn once again, and the UN would fix an assembly to discuss the matter.

Schroeder,
the police does not say all people whose papers they controlled were Syrians. They say Syrians formed the biggest subgroup, and that they were a majority. Mind you, many Syrians coming here are young males and juveniles, without parents and family - especially no father giving them orders. At least 120,000 of those who came this year, were single young males of juvenile age.

I save myself from referring once again to what Gunnar Heinsohn has to say on the dynamics coming from such demographic mixtures.

[Buddahaid]

The situation in Europe is so critical that Paris has been moved into Germany.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CYH_qsSW8AUAKdA.png:large

That is just who we need. Maxwell Smart!
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/30/DonAdams.jpg/170px-DonAdams.jpg

Well this is terrible news and I need to take it in without the rhetoric. :stare:

[Dan D]

In Poland right-wing populists try to score with voters with anti-German rethoric, in the US right-wing populists try to score with anti-European rethoric and in Germany left-wing populists try to score with anti-American rethoric:woot:

[kraznyi_oktjabr]

In Poland right-wing populists try to score with voters with anti-German rethoric, in the US right-wing populists try to score with anti-European rethoric and in Germany left-wing populists try to score with anti-American rethoric:woot:Add to that ultra-nationalists patrolling city streets in Finland providing "security" from you-know-who... although few openly admit it. :woot:

[August]

Just curious, what is the difference between an "ultra-nationalist" and a plain old regular nationalist?

[Skybird]

Number of charges now has broken through the 200-barrier, and still raising. The Weißer Ring, a private organisation assisting victims of crimes, reminds of that many of the victims of sexual violence are ashamed and to varying degrees traumatised, it takes time to overcome this hindrance, and it needs courage to file a complaint since the procedures at court for victims of sexual violence can easily turn into a second nightmare, can become very intimate and degrading. Many victims contacted the Weißer Ring, but refuse to file charges. The real number of crimes that took place thus must be much higher than just 200.

It became known that similar incidents happened as well in Hamburg, Berlin, Stuttgart, even outside my own hometown Münster where concerned mothers at the last minute stepped in and prevented the worst from happening to their daughters, age 14 and 15, just that in all these cases the dimension of the crimes did not reach the proportions of Cologne. Always "groups of young men of Northafrican and Arabic looks" - the current German media's standard term - were involved. Cologne was not an isolated escape from the rule. Hamburg is in the North, Stuttgart in the South, Berlin in the East, Cologne in the West. Singular small-scale events additionally got reported from several small towns and villages, attempted or conducted gang-rapes and sexual assaults.

The police now has started to locate stolen cellphones from Cologne by their transmissions - inside refugee camps. That news will not be welcomed.

Feminist organisations meanwhile tried to hijack and turn around the events, trying to start another debate about sexual violence of local, German men against women, and sexual discrimination, once again. They say it were wrong and misleading, even hypocrisy, to focus on the events at New Year's Eve, and that we should instead look at the daily guilt German men load upon themselves every single day. - Stupidity cannot be argued against, you just can't. Because that feature is its essence. You can't accuse a hole in a mountain to be hollow.

[Betonov]

Just curious, what is the difference between an "ultra-nationalist" and a plain old regular nationalist?

Nationalist: I love my country, and will defend the degradation of the age old culture that defines us.

Ultra-nationalsit: everyone else sucks and should be hanged, including people that are less than 5 generations here.

[kraznyi_oktjabr]

Just curious, what is the difference between an "ultra-nationalist" and a plain old regular nationalist?Well, that was best translation I could figure out for a little bit politically correct expression used by our national broadcaster Yle. For example (in spoiler wrap to minimize advertising them) (CENSORED by author) and other similar stuff; bigoted, racist, thugs (sometimes with criminal background) pretending to be "protectors of society". So far they have not caused any problems and as walking on the street is not illegal so their "operation" can continue.

Some associated groups (CENSORED by author) have used violence in past so I hope this thing doesn't get out of control.

EDIT #1:
Nationalist: I love my country, and will defend the degradation of the age old culture that defines us.

Ultra-nationalsit: everyone else sucks and should be hanged, including people that are less than 5 generations here.Not very politically correct, straight fire definition of those groups...

To be fair there must also be those "concerned citizens" - to borrow American term - participating, especially those countering groups described above, but they don't get as much publicity nor controversy.

EDIT #2: Spoiler tags fail to work so I removed some material from post. If you want it just send me PM.

[Skybird]

Nationalist: I love my country, and will defend the degradation of the age old culture that defines us.

Ultra-nationalsit: everyone else sucks and should be hanged, including people that are less than 5 generations here.

According to some French thinker whose name just does not want to come to my mind, you are defining patriotism versus nationalism by that.

[Betonov]

According to some French thinker whose name just does not want to come to my mind, you are defining patriotism versus nationalism by that.

I always found nationalism tied to one's culture and patriotism to one's country.
In Europe one might equate patriots and nationalists though.

[Schroeder]

I bet money that this idiot who optimists still label as "police president", already is done.
And he's done: http://www.tagesschau.de/inland/uebergriffe-117.html
:yeah:
About bloody time.:/\\!!
Our country has completely surrendered it's authority on that night and that must never happen again. What does the police have pepper spray, batons and guns for? Oh, I forgot that the left will start crying "police state" if those were to be used...well, now our own people are crying but I guess we'll just have to accept that, tight? Brave new world.:yeah:

The green party already got a new slogan out for this year yesterday:
http://foto.arcor-online.net/palb/alben/54/1012554/1280_6230366138303763.jpg

This can be translated into something like: "For a Europe without isolation."
Is this a case of denial?

[Jimbuna]

Nationalist: I love my country, and will defend the degradation of the age old culture that defines us.

Ultra-nationalsit: everyone else sucks and should be hanged, including people that are less than 5 generations here.

I should imagine every country in Europe has a portion however big or small of its population with a similar mindset.

[Betonov]

I should imagine every country in Europe has a portion however big or small of its population with a similar mindset.

Yep.
And the other extreme to the spectrum, the ''roll on your back'' and ''let's let everyone in'' left.
But those two sides are interesting to the media.
No one wants to report on those of us on the left that think that a immigration limit should be in place or those on the right that believe that controlled immigration is beneficial to the country. We just don't sell the news anymore.

[Skybird]

As I earlier predicted, the police president of Cologne just has been sacked. "Provisional pensioning", they say. "Fired over repeated displays of incompetence and cluelessness", I say.

Right step. Just many months too late.

[Skybird]

Ah, Schroeder beat me to it.

Lets not forget that Ralf Jäger, the interior minister of North Rhine-Westphalia who ordered the retirement, is one of those who in the past years became responsible of systematically reducing the police forces and their resources, and pushing forward a policy of underfunding them . Warning of this having led way too far, there are since long time already. The fiscal overstretching of the German "social state" does not help either. What we have here, is the big fox chasing another smaller fox out of the hen house to save his own place in it. Kind of a pawn sacrifice.

Just that this pawn also has deserved it. The fired ex-president has had two major scandals in the past year already. First his police concept imploded in the face of street riots staged by right wingers and Nazis who made police troops needing to flee from them, later internal excesses and politically provocating behaviour by members of a Cologne SWAT team saw him acting indifferent, weak, and entangling himself in contradictions. The damage he leaves behind, is tremendous.


Our country has completely surrendered it's authority on that night

We have also completely surrendered the sovereignty over our state borders, mind you. Not to mention that our great Führerin's policy is an unhidden violation of the German constitution on several paragraphs. All what is being done now only gets done to hide the real dimension of her failure and misjudgement. And thus it will increase the desaster more and more.

As the old grim joke goes: Merkel is Honecker's late revenge on the BRD.

[mapuc]

If I interpret it correctly Tchocky doubts Wildcat's story about having been with refugees for 8 months.

I myself have some problems believing that those people were from Syria both because of personal encounters with some and because of what a friend of mine who is with the "voluntary firefighters" told me. He drove a group of refugees to new homes. He said one could tell the Syrians from all the others simply because they were well mannered, did what they were told to do and were still pretty shaken from fleeing Syria with many showing PTSD symptoms.
However he also told me that he could describe the Afghans in that group with just two words: Asocial Thugs....:shifty:

Correct-I was confused about Wildcats "statement" have through friends friend on FB got a opposite story from these refugee camps

Markus

[Skybird]

I always found nationalism tied to one's culture and patriotism to one's country.
In Europe one might equate patriots and nationalists though.
That French guy I referred to, put it something like this: patriotism is love for thy people and culture, country. Nationalism is hating the others. I think history shows him to be right. Where ever nationalism rose its head, hate against the "other" had much, so very much to do with it.

I can arrange myself with people feeling honestly patriotic. I may not tick like they do, but I still can understand their feeling, and tolerate them, we are not separated by insurmountable differences. But with nationalists I run a zero tolerance policy, Nazi or not, it just is a cosmetic difference. I just cant stand nationalism.

[Betonov]

He said one could tell the Syrians from all the others simply because they were well mannered, did what they were told to do and were still pretty shaken from fleeing Syria with many showing PTSD symptoms.
However he also told me that he could describe the Afghans in that group with just two words: Asocial Thugs....:shifty:

Same sentiment coming from the cops and volunteers at the Slovene border crossings.

[Betonov]

That French guy I referred to, put it something like this: patriotism is love for thy people and culture, country. Nationalism is hating the others. I think history shows him to be right. Where ever nationalism rose its head, hate against the "other" had much, so very much to do with it.

I can arrange myself with people feeling honestly patriotic. I may not tick like they do, but I still can understand their feeling, and tolerate them, we are not separated by insurmountable differences. But with nationalists I run a zero tolerance policy, Nazi or not, it just is a cosmetic difference. I just cant stand nationalism.

Good point though.
Here we always said one has to be a nationalist in moderation. Too prevent too much outside influence, keep a healthy distrust of outsiders (Countries don't have friends, they have interests :03: ) Depends on the personal view in the end.
But then again, nationalism destroyed Germany in 1945 and tore Yugoslavia apart in the 90's.

[Skybird]

Just in:

two Maroccan young men who had stolen a cellphone from a German young man on January 3rd and who are suspected to have participated in the excesses on New Year'S Eve, have been sentenced by a court. 1 week arrest.

You read that right. ONE. WEEK.

The one of the two hasd entered Germany just in Decembre, and has previously been caught by the police for shoplifting, and got a suspended sentence. The other man stayed in germany since longer and already has a long police record. This makes both to repeated offenders.

ONE. WEEK.

But this is nothing new. It is how carricatures of courts in germany tick.

Now recall what I said yesterday: that we can only kick out criminal asylum seekers if they have been sentenced to three years in prison, and that newcomers, whose claim for seeking asylum still must be decided on, are only kickable when they commited a crime for which they serve at least one year in prison.

You do not gte 3 years terms easily in Germany.

The one of the men is not even two months in Germany, and already is a repeated offender. The other is here since last year, some months it seems, and already has a long list of offences.

ONE. WEEK.

Both men already are released, and walked away free, since the time they already spend in jail got counted. I'm certain they have a good laugh and get celebrated by their buddies.

That bitch of a clueless judge gets quoted with the well-meaning advise: "Don'T let this happen again, if you please".

Policemen in Cologne say they are shocked, and that they could not believe it. Quote: "We feel like being beaten in the face."

This surely will push the city police's motivation that already is at rock bottom, to new record lows.


Everybody feel free to shed loads of scorn and mockery on Germany. It deserves it. Myself, I am done with Germany since years already. I look at it, and all I feel is merciless contempt. With every year, I become more icy, and my look on it more unmoved.

[mapuc]

Don't know if it has been mentioned before in this thread

It looks like those who did this was refugees and the head of the police in cologne had to resign due to "false story"

OK. there are thousands of refugees in Germany and how many percentage of these has done this ?(if some one should say-every refugees is like that)

Got this from an article in bild.de

Markus

[Rockstar]

Its always disappointing to hear of such things happening. But there's no time like the present to start hiring new police officers and strengthen patrols to lay down the law. IMO It must be done and done soon otherwise you might have problems like those friendly peace loving neighborhoods that have developed around Paris.

We have similar restrictions/laws in place. The type of offense which can deny entry to an asylum seeker must carry a sentence of one year or more in prison.

[mapuc]

Regarding Skybirds post

Some month ago a Danish police men said on Danish TV why they really don't care to solve crime

Why should we !? We get the person or persons who did this and collect enough material to get the person or persons convicted and what happen the judges set them free.

Markus

[kraznyi_oktjabr]

Regarding Skybirds post

Some month ago a Danish police men said on Danish TV why they really don't care to solve crime

Why should we !? We get the person or persons who did this and collect enough material to get the person or persons convicted and what happen the judges set them free.

MarkusDon't know about police's motivation here but as citizen my trust to our judiciary system is falling quite rapidly. Lastest hit was rape case where my friend was victim. Perpetrator got six month probation, fines and should compensation to victim. Those financial consequences are much more serious punishment than probation or would be if that Iraqi refugee had any money. In practice State will pay compensations and forget fines. :nope:

[mapuc]

This is a part of an article in a Swedish news paper.

Based on the violent events in Cologne, the Slovak Prime Minister, Robert Fico, decided to completely ban Muslim immigration to Slovakia.

This Swedish newspaper does not belong to the mainstream newspaper.

It could be true even though

Need confirmation for other news paper.

Markus

[Nippelspanner]

Just found this, what do you guys think of that?
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=cb0_1447249820

I don't know, but after seeing these pictures (that I have never seen in German TV, mh, I wonder why!) I don't buy the "It's all just fear-mongering" argument anymore.

[Schroeder]

Just found this, what do you guys think of that?
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=cb0_1447249820

I don't know, but after seeing these pictures (that I have never seen in German TV, mh, I wonder why!) I don't buy the "It's all just fear-mongering" argument anymore.
While I don't buy it anymore either I stopped reading this stuff when I came to this:

The Left, mainly orchestrated by Zionist interests, is destroying our countries from the inside. And while I do believe that "die Linke" and "Bündnis 90 die Grünen" are trying with all might to destroy our national identity I still fail to see the Jewish conspiracy behind it.:nope:
Ah well, I hope our politicians will finally get their heads out of their rear ends as the mood of the German people seems to be changing dramatically and not in favor for Merkel's "get everyone into Germany" policy. A lot of people also finally seem to realize that the cultures from Islamic countries are not compatible with our own and that all the nice words and self deception / censoring of the past decades have been nothing but a drug induced dream with no base in reality. If things continue as they are (and I've no doubt they will as Merkel doesn't have the will / guts to change now as it would show her complete misjudgment of the situation) then we are just one bad election day away from getting into the same mess as Poland by voting in the morons of the AFD.:/\\!!
I don't know what's worse, to continue as we do or have the AFD in charge. In any case it doesn't look good either way.:dead:

[Rockstar]

Egads. Ive been involved in migrant interdiction operations for 10 years. Ive come across people from all over the world. But Ive never seen anything as out of control as what was shown on that video.

You all had better reign it in quick.

[Penguin]

And he's done: http://www.tagesschau.de/inland/uebergriffe-117.html
:yeah:
About bloody time.:/\\!!
Our country has completely surrendered it's authority on that night and that must never happen again. What does the police have pepper spray, batons and guns for? Oh, I forgot that the left will start crying "police state" if those were to be used...well, now our own people are crying but I guess we'll just have to accept that, tight? Brave new world.:yeah:


As someone who has been on the receiving end of police actions - sometimes undeserved, sometimes not, let me tell you this:
I would have had absolutely no problem if the police would have taken violent measures to solve the situation in Cologne. Yeah, there might have been innocents hurt in the process, but i would have loved to be kissed by a baton if it would have stopped a sole woman from being harrassed or raped. I guess only the numbest of the numb would have cried: 'police violence' afterwards.




The green party already got a new slogan out for this year yesterday:
http://foto.arcor-online.net/palb/alben/54/1012554/1280_6230366138303763.jpg

This can be translated into something like: "For a Europe without isolation."
Is this a case of denial?

I saw the picture and the first thought i had was: detachment. If there has ever been a picture to describe this noun, it's this one.

Yes, I know one shouldn't judge people by their looks, but who cares. This picture symbolizes a huge part of the problem in Germany when discussing the whole migration topic here. I'm sure you agree with me, that calling the debate culture about refugees in Germany 'toxic' is an understatement. Seems like binary thinking is king, nuances and pragmatism gets shot instantly. :(

It might be part of my upbringing in the lower class, but I see a bunch of middle class folks standing around, uttering statements which exactly say nothing. "Feel-good-policy", more for themselves than for the people they claim to help.

I even have some empathy for them. In my line of work I am surrounded by brilliant people from all over the world. Educated, speaking many languages and multicultural in the best meaning of the word.
However I know how the reality looks: the middle class is not the one who experience all the negative results of politics with heart but without mind.

The datatchment from reality was made clear by the vice chancellor, with his infamous "scum" sentence, putting everyone who has the slightest doubts about the policy, into the same bucket as some bonehead idiots who want to burn people for their color of skin.

It's the lower-class who will struggle in a "social state" which gets chopped down by the hour and will competing for the finite resources of jobs, homes, etc.

However it's also the lower-class scum which did more for integration than any state policy ever did. The parents of Ali and Hans might never talk or trust each other, but the kids play together on the playground and are together in school. So while the "scum" might also have the biggest objections to the current policies, it's the "scum" who lived with all the people together since years, in good and in bad. They were the first who saw an immigrant as a person, neither bogeyman nor a helpless rabbit.

Sorry for the wall of text, but I want to put some perspective into it. Just had an 2 hour debate over the German policiy, where my argument of finite resources was shot down by the words "that's the same Lebensraum argument we heard before" :damn:
My reply was only: "Congratulations, you just put every economist or a country like Sweden into the same category than the Nazis."

I'm curious how you see that.

Yep.
And the other extreme to the spectrum, the ''roll on your back'' and ''let's let everyone in'' left.
But those two sides are interesting to the media.
No one wants to report on those of us on the left that think that a immigration limit should be in place or those on the right that believe that controlled immigration is beneficial to the country. We just don't sell the news anymore.

I hear you, mate, I made the same observations. The English language has a nice term for the folks you describe: regressive Left (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regressive_left)

[Schroeder]

@Penguin
I think you are spot on. The politicians never had to see the negative aspects of their actions. Maybe they are even completely unaware of them like the kings of centuries past who had no idea that their people were starving...:/\\!!
The lack of information might be the foundation for the completely irrational policy we see today. Another problem is that some parties have preached multiculturalism for decades and that the West is the root of all evil and they can't just turn around and admit that they have lived their lives in a dogma which can't change like religions can't change without losing their power as it means to admit having been wrong. So they have to keep going in that direction even if it means suicide in the long run. Since Merkel has created her own dogma a couple of months ago and seems unwilling to correct it things can go down south pretty fast as the people are fed up by now and the New Year's Eve crimes were just what pushed things over the edge. A lot of people want answers to the crisis and more importantly: consequences. Yet the whitewashing has already began again and I highly doubt that anything important will change and that is what feeds the Right wing extremists. So either Merkel and the other morons finally get their act together (For once I wish they would listen to Seehofer who I usually can't stand) or things will get really ugly at the next election (let alone in the decades to come when we'll have to deal with the fallout of today's idiocy).

[Skybird]

bild.de

Better don't care for Bild. Its crap. Daily Mirror and The Sun turned into one paper.

[Skybird]

Penguin,

read Roland Baader's "Totgedacht. Warum Intellektuelle unsere Welt zerstören." LINK (http://www.amazon.de/Totgedacht-Intellektuelle-zerst%C3%B6ren-Wirtschaft-Gesellschaft/dp/3935197268/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1452304674&sr=8-1&keywords=totgedacht)You may or may not agree or disagree with liberalism and its economy and money theory, but in this book Baader goes more beyond that than in most of his other books. The historical link to explain the bias of the German "feuilleton", is to the socalled 68er generation, and the overtaking of all education and opinion-forming offices by their (very left-leaning) thinking and ideology: schools, universities, and by that: media, politics, last but not least "Geisteswissenschaften" and social and paedagogic "sciences", school teachers. Important parts of the state monopoly in socially relevant areas has been abused to spread this kind of thinking, especially schools and universities, wherew the poltical interference is massive and cannot be missed anymore, also the state TV and the almost gleichgeschalteten major newspapers. The original 68er are out of the job world already - but they had been given the opportunity to breed and implement their seeds deep into the education of future generations, since 40 years now. Generation 2 and 3 of their intellectual offsprings now have taken over from them. And that spells desaster.

We pay the price for that today. Our population voluntarily moves again according to the patterns and manipulative operations that once the Eastgerman StaSi and the Soviet KGB have tried - to control the Westgerman peace movement, the SPD, and to influence the media and the public opinion forming, to weaken support for NATO and the US: an effort to influence and destabilise the political situation in Westgermany. They would rub their eyes if they would still be there and see what is happening. It'sheir wet dream coming true.

What do you think why do politics now systemtically reduce and even delete history courses from schools? ;) A population not knowing history, cannot put political decisions of the present into historical relation, cannot compare, cannot assess competently the consequences. A population of poltical idiots gets formed that way, and that is ploltically wanted, so to not have critical thinking interfering with politicians' feudal governing. If there is one word that describes perfectly what is happening in Germany currently, than this word is "infantilization". We are all being turned into teletubbies - teletubbies who have a right to vote politicians into their desired offices, of course. "Deutschland, Land der Dichter und Denker", das war einmal, und ist schon lange vorbei! Infantility trumps all! Merkelianism! Socialism! Ich fühl mich gut, ich fühl mich toll, ich fühl mich einfach wundervoll! Collective solidarity with everything as most superior citizen's duty, and you better don't disagree with the plebs, else...!! Consense-tyranny!

Europe falls, and we today must live to witness it. I nowadays watch it happening in slow motion with unmoved eyes, confused that such amounts of stupdity are still possible after the centuries of rise and knowledge- gathering. I cannot change it, and my energy to try, was and would be all wasted, I now understand. Every action has reaction, karma is consequence, the essence of justice is "deserve". Compassion I feel none anymore - its not needed, but would even be unfair, because undeserved.

[Nippelspanner]

@Penguin
I think you are spot on.
Definitely! :yep:

[Betonov]

I hear you, mate, I made the same observations. The English language has a nice term for the folks you describe: regressive Left (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regressive_left)

Thanks. I never knew how to call them :up:

[Nippelspanner]

In any case it doesn't look good either way.:dead:To be honest, I think Europe's fate is already written. Nothing will change, or stop, what has been started due to a venomous mixture of typical German 'Scheuklappendenken' and the fact that the politicians don't realize the threat behind the current movements.
And even if... what could they do? Refuse them? Probably even illegal, I don't know. Köln and Hamburg was just the beginning, I am certain of that. Can't be long from now until the first terror attacks happen here as well. We have been so awfully close multiple times now, this is scary.
"Brace yourselves..." ?! :doh:

Well, I guess I'm just irrational and paranoid - nevermind the pictures we can see on the internet - but never on German television. :hmmm:
I don't know an awful lot, not a smart person so I might be completely wrong/off/ill-informed/whatever - but I have to admit that for the first time in my life, I do not feel safe in regards of myself, my home, property and country, when I think about the future. :-?

[Skybird]

New story opening the papers today: on New Year'S Eve, in Bielefeld, a mob of 500 men - who this time explicitly get described not as "of "Northafrican looks", but as migrants - , tried to storm a disco by violent means. The security had to call for police assistance. Fire in the streets. Police reports mention an amount of dissapearance of inhibition and readiness to turn violent that was "unseen as anything ever before". Several women got groped and sexually harassed, the dimension of this aspect still is unknown, but keeps growing in the police's realization since now complaints by women started to come in. Several arrests were made that night, police was put to the very limits.

As I said, it was not just Cologne, Hamburg and Stuttgart, but was across the whole country, it seems, just the dimension of events varies. If you look into smaller, regional newspapers, you can note it.

Many people in Germany still want to solve the problem by enforcing a total silence about it. If it is out of sight, then it does not exist, so their logic. On German Facebook and Twitter, a movement has formed up that wants to repalce the original statement I give below, by the interior minister of North Rhine-Westphalia.

The man said:

„Wir nehmen es nicht hin, dass sich nordafrikanische Männergruppen organisieren, um wehrlose Frauen mit dreisten sexuellen Attacken zu erniedrigen.“

Translation:
We do not accept that northafrican groups of men organse themselves in mobs to humiliate defenceless women by acts of brazen sexual assault.

They demand another language terminology, and they get thousands and thousands and thosuands of likes for it:

"Wir nehmen es nicht hin, dass Männer Frauen mit dreisten sexuellen Attacken erniedrigen."

Translated:
We do not accept that men humiliate defenceless women by acts of brazen sexual assault.

The complete context of the events in Cologne - and elsewhere - got deleted, all reference to certain groups of migrants being at the core of the events, got "corrected".

A base mechanism that gets used an awful lot over here.

You may think this is just persnicketiness from my side. It is not, it is symptomatic for the way certain huge groups in society try to stick to their naive ideas of the noble savage, and to our naive migration policy, and our naive view on a certain foreign culture that got stuck in a time over thousand years ago. They do so by denial, distraction and deflection.

[Skybird]

There have been several terror attempts that got spoiled at last minute, not just since Paris, but in the whole past years. It almost always were information given by foreign intel services, not ours. If these attacks would have been successful, we would have had half a dozen serious ones, with dozens if not hundreds dead.

We once again benefit from the competence of others, and others doing the dirty work. Dirty work that we morally complain about nevertheless.

If I were you, I would say "F## the Germans", and would let us face what is coming for us, to teach us the lesson.

[Skybird]

I know that hoax, but it is misplaced here. The events described were real for sure. And some women and girls paid for it, some police officers too.

[danasan]

How do we define "terrorism"?

After the attacks in Paris last November I saw some news where Youtube - videos were shown which were made by the IS. Some of their (= IS members) messages were translated like: "However you can beat them (= Europe and Europeans), just do it. Use knives, sticks, stones, firearms, whatever you can carry..."

So if we can agree on a definition for the term "terrorism" that includes spreading fear in our society on a large scale, being physically that violent to the fragile ones in our society on a large scale, not respecting our constitution and their forces (any citizen is to stick to those rules),

then we have terrorism here in Germany already - and victims.

[Skybird]

Tougher laws is always the first thing politicians call for. They mean nothing if the police is not able to enforce them. And when they will be eroded from within when courts do not implement them due to "social concerns".

The one-week-sentence for the two repeated offenders I referred to yesterday. Why are the given the benefit of doubt or another second chance when they already have demonstrated to be repeated, the one guy even a multiple - offenders...? Have been sentenced before?

When I give a party, and pay the champagne and food and the band, and have all the work to organise it, and then I surprise one of the guests, or several, when they put my silver spoons in their pockets or raping my female guests - why even considering a second chance in the first? I get back my spoons, and they fly out of my house immediately - either through the door or through the window. And done I am with them. Why am I expected to worry about their social perspective, or what lack their absence will mean for my party? They won't be missed at all, that is the simple truth. Guests like these nobody needs, guests like these are a PITA, nothing else. I do not care whether they have worrying parents, and families at overseas. I just do not care. And why should I? They should have thought about that before stealing my silver. And if some international convention for correctly partying demands me to kick out a thief only after I caught him for the third time stealing my belongings, then I am sure that the paper it is printed on can serve wonderfully to help me lightening the fire in my chimney when the afternoons start to become shorter again.

[Betonov]

You know Europe is doomed when Skybird is talking sense :dead:

[Skybird]

Yes, its all my guilt. :D

[Betonov]

According to my mother it's mine.

[Schroeder]

A week is a rather lenient sentence though, I believe in the UK such a crime would get either 18 months or a fine
Actually after watching stuff like Brit Cops or Traffic Cops on Youtube I would rather say they would get out without anything whatsoever. They sometimes even let owners of cannabis plantations go free...:doh:
Actually I believe that being a cop in the UK must be among the most frustrating jobs on this planet.:/\\!!

[Skybird]

I did a little Google translated reading about this:

https://translate.google.de/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=de&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spiegel.de%2Fpanorama%2Fjustiz% 2Furteil-in-koeln-gegen-antaenzer-jugendarrest-fuer-zwei-taeter-a-1071122.html&edit-text=

The one week sentence has got nothing to do with the Cologne attacks, it is in reference to the theft of the mobile phone on the 3rd January. They are suspected of involvement in the Cologne attacks but that has nothing to do with the case at hand which involves the mobile phone. If the police have enough evidence that they were at Cologne and participated in the attacks then they will be able to bring forward a prosecution to the German courts.

I have not said anything different. I said they are suspected to have participated in the NYE assaults, but were arrested and sentenced for stealing a cellphone on January 3rd - , and that they were repeated offenders already, having shoplifted before (the one guy once, the other guy being a multiple offender in several no further described cases). Point is: they both were already charged and sentenced before, the one guy repeatedly, being known by the police to have a long record with the police. That they are also suspects in the NYE events, is an additional point and should have been given more weight considering their established police records. You cannot give such people the benefit of doubt anymore. Their repeated earlier guilt has been found as "proven".

I don't know what point you want to make there, it seems to me you have none.

[Skybird]

Number of complains filed in Cologne now over 380, still rising.

Various media now report - once again; I had given that story already several days ago - about official orders to the police to systematically hide from the public any migration background oif suspects in crime cases reported by the media. This shozukld have been the cas ein several federal states. Thewir interior ministrie sof course deny that, but it is polcie officers renying the poltical claim, saying that they had received formal order to stop all investigation and to let of complaints dissapear in the drawers when the suspects would be found to be migrants.

[Skybird]

The attacker in Paris who attacked a police station some days ago with an axe, lived in a refugee home in Recklinghausen, Germany. There are private photos showing that inside the camp he posed with an IS flag.

[Nippelspanner]

The attacker in Paris who attacked a police station some days ago with an axe, lived in a refugee home in Recklinghausen, Germany. There are private photos showing that inside the camp he posed with an IS flag.
Brace yourselves fellow Germans!
http://www.zukunftskinder.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/einzef%C3%A4lle4.jpg
("regrettable but isolated incidents" - a favorite Totschlagargument from our beloved German politicians, mostly heard from the Gutmenschen who deny today's reality 'because Germany was bad once'.)

[ikalugin]

Immagine if Germany turns to radical Islamism and tries to conquer Europe once more?

[Skybird]

It's the factor of the crime, repeat offender or not, although as I already said, even for theft a week does seem rather low, some months perhaps, but not a week.
Generally though in a court of law, only previous convictions count, the fact that they are a suspect in another crime is not taken into account.
Heck, sometimes the jury isn't even told if they have a criminal record or not, but the judge should have imposed a less lenient sentence than one week, that does seem a bit daft. Did he even give his reasoning for the sentence?
I do not explain it again for you.

[Skybird]

Brace yourselves fellow Germans!
http://www.zukunftskinder.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/einzef%C3%A4lle4.jpg
("regrettable but isolated incidents" - a favorite Totschlagargument from our beloved German politicians, mostly heard from the Gutmenschen who deny today's reality 'because Germany was bad once'.)

Claudia Roth. If life has the ability to form intelligence, she is best illustration for that every rule knows exceptions. An intellectual vacuum so strong that sometime I fear she will soak up the solar system like a black hole.

Played in a punk band in her youth and then switched to politics. The instrument may have changed, the noise stayed the same. An idol of the Green party over here. Added the fourth, fifth and sixth dimensions to the formula for defining the essence moral indignation.

[Skybird]

I never asked you to explain it. In fact, in essense I agree with you, the sentence was too light, and I hope that if they are proven to have taken part in the events in Cologne that they will receive the maximum sentence applicable to the crime at their age level in German law, and if they are refugees then I hope they are deported.

Repeated, sentenced offenders. You don't get the point, or do not want to get it, but thats your problem.

[Nippelspanner]

Immagine if Germany turns to radical Islamism and tries to conquer Europe once more?
http://2static2.fjcdn.com/comments/5617115+_5ef05be1da415a69bb79cabc488441b9.jpg

[ikalugin]

Bah, I think it's time Germany let someone else have a go.
Well, the moment Germany tries it would find angry Polish crusaders marching West.

[Skybird]

Comment by a mainstream newspaper commentator in Der Tagesspiegel (usually seen as a moderate conservative paper).



It's about Islam, not about refugees

by Harald Martenstein


Radical feminists and the great moguls of political correctness relativize the crimes of Cologne, because they do not fit into their worldview. A comment.



Some time ago news went around the world about rapes in India (https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=de&ie=UTF8&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.de&sl=de&tl=en&u=http://www.tagesspiegel.de/weltspiegel/indien-vergewaltiger-maedchen-ist-selber-schuld/11446058.html&usg=ALkJrhgXj53nvWnaXyXlqu4qmGP5TIaukQ). The acts were extremely brutal and were carried out by groups of men. Of course that was bad, but one should beware of quick judgments. After all, there are rapes happening in Germany, too. Not all Indians do such a thing. And not all the perpetrators could be identified by name.


Were these pepetrators even Indians at all? Could it not have been German tourists? Considering how German tourists often behave, that is is more than likely. We must not allow getting distracted from our fight against the old FDP Macho Brüderle [who was involved in an idiotic though relatively harmless scandal of words about a chauvinistic comment he made, Skybird ] by events in India.


This is almost exactly the reasoning of radical feminism and the great moguls of political correctness, as far as it concerns the massive sexual crimes in the New Year's Eve (https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=de&ie=UTF8&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.de&sl=de&tl=en&u=http://www.tagesspiegel.de/politik/nach-den-uebergriffen-in-koeln-zahl-der-anzeigen-steigt-auf-379/12810800.html&usg=ALkJrhjcku9LTfGOqiVXr74YVMuWxRvfJg) night. That amongst long-established old Germans sexism also exists. And that at the Oktoberfest, women also would be groped (angegrapscht) by men.


That's true. But in Cologne and elsewhere sexual aggression of an in Germany previously unknown scale had been on display. Who immediately tries to relativize these crimes, proves that to him his personal images of enemies are the most important part, not the crimes that actually happened. For him [her, Skybird], there are good victims - and bad victims. Bad are all victims who do not fit into his/her personal worldview. [An annoyance? Skybird]


Woman image of Islam often leads to crime

This way of thinking has, I fear, gradually become the unofficial state religion. In government number one broadcaster, ZDF, these people already are allowed to speak Guest comments. At the height of the church abuse scandals, has a conservative church leader invited for guest commentary, so that he may put things a bit into perspective? No. There were interviews, but no commentary. For demanding this, the church is no longer powerful enough.


This reminds me of the generation of my grandparents. At that time of the Nazi crimes, there were often made quite similar comments. Sure, what happened to the Jews was bad - but the British had also built concentration camps, even earlier than the Nazis. Yes, even that is true.


This matter is not abpout refugees. It's about Islam. (https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=de&ie=UTF8&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.de&sl=de&tl=en&u=http://www.tagesspiegel.de/themen/islam/&usg=ALkJrhjSg4W1ocBu_JPKjVoBrK9WG1Bj9Q) Islamic socialization produces an image of women that often leads to such crimes. If it would be racist to point out this link, it would also be racist to mention the relationship between Germany and the Nazis. Not all Germans, not all men and not all Muslims have been or are criminals. But when crimes are immediately relativized reflexively, this encourages the criminals of tomorrow.


And by the way: Islam is not a race. It is an ideology.



http://www.tagesspiegel.de/images/harald-martenstein/12811034/2-format1.jpeg
Harald Martenstein, for Der Tagesspiegel



Could have been written by me.

My editing of Google translation. German original:

http://www.tagesspiegel.de/politik/martenstein-ueber-koeln-und-political-correctness-es-geht-um-den-islam-nicht-um-fluechtlinge/12811028.html

[Schroeder]

Brace yourselves fellow Germans!
http://www.zukunftskinder.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/einzef%C3%A4lle4.jpg
("regrettable but isolated incidents" - a favorite Totschlagargument from our beloved German politicians, mostly heard from the Gutmenschen who deny today's reality 'because Germany was bad once'.)
Denial.:/\\!!
But it fits nicely with the comment of Harald Martenstein that Skybird posted.
The dogma is stronger than reality and things can't be that mustn't be. The Green party as been pushing for unconditional surrender to foreign cultures for decades, advertising them as enriching our culture (which to some degree is true) but also always glossing over all the problems that came with that or even demanding that we should accept those problems as normal. Now it exploded in their faces and they still don't want to see it.:/\\!!

[Schroeder]

What do the rapes in India have to do with Islam?

Nothing. But that was also not what he said. He used it as an example how feminists are trying to hijack those situations for their own agenda and just blame everything on what their agenda tells them to do without any base in reality.

[Skybird]

He knows that, Schroeder, he's just up to his usual tricks. Playing them exactly the way Martenstein pointed out: endlessly relativizing, and calling that "sensibility", "reason", "calmness", or whatever.

Exactly the kind of behaviour that has gotten us to where we are now. And preventing necessary determination - and confrontation - in the future, too. Nobody wants a confrontation. Lets be sensible about the many aspects of this. Lets reflect on it. Lets be reasonable another couple of years. How could anyone argue against being sensible, and reasonable?

Lets talk about it. Have a gremium examining it. We need to wait for another report. And a report on that report. And a report summarizing both and weighing their pros and cons against each other. We need to be sober, and sensible, and reasonable, calm-minded.

...

There are just two sentences in the text that one needs to really focus on:

"Islamic socialization produces an image of women that often leads to such crimes". - I am preaching this since years and years.

Islam is not a race. It is an ideology. - Im preaching this since years and years."

An ideology. Socialisation by this ideology forms a certain - and no different - view on women, and infidel women (usually in Germany nowadays referred to by many young Islamic migrants as "bitches" and "f###meat"). Yeah, I know, not by all young Islamic migrants. But I did not say "by all", I said "by many".

The phenomenon of girls gang-raped and gang-groped in public, is nothing new in Arab countries, it is an old phenomenon, and a big problem. To my surprise, a newspaper today dared to have a an article on it, calling it by its name "taharrush gamea" (= "collective sexual harassment").

---

For German readers: http://www.cuncti.net/politik/902-wo-sind-die-linken-aus-den-islamischen-laendern-geblieben

Subjective, but still: illustrating. From what I last saw in Berlin years ago, he has a point.

[Schroeder]

Hmmm, I see what you mean, but honestly I don't see this as a purely Islamic problem, because if it was then places like South Africa wouldn't see the problems that they face, likewise Brazil.
There is a problem in Islam with their treatment of women, just as there is within the more traditional and strict regimes of Christianity, such as in places in Africa.

And here we have the relativizing again. "It's not that bad, others do it too...". We don't have a problem with gang raping or otherwise criminal South African Christians in this country but with people of Islamic countries.
I don't care what a religion does in other countries as long as it doesn't involve me but I care for the problems here, at my home and I want them solved and not increased by mass importing more people who have shown to have a high rate of troublemakers among them.


I think it would be simplistic to blame it purely on religion though, since there are plenty of other religious people who don't gang-rape women, and if it was purely a religious problem then these people wouldn't exist, surely?
It's not just the religion, it's the entire culture that is dominant in Islamic countries and that culture is influenced by Islam. A lot of the perpetrators where drunk which is against Islam but they come from an Islamic country and "misbehave" to the extreme here which happens all too often. Islam plays a part in setting the mindset and the culture does the rest to form a feeling of superiority especially over women and double especially over non believing women and frankly I don't care anymore whether it's the religion, the culture, bad upbringing, suppression through the evil evil evil West, a rainbow farting unicorn or a combination of all of it. I just notice that a hell lot of people from Islamic countries don't behave in acceptable ways in MY country and not just since New Years Eve but for decades now.

[Schroeder]

So the problem isn't culture, it's geography?

Are you deliberately trying to misunderstand my posts, or am I missing something?:hmm2:
Here is what I wrote: It's not just the religion, it's the entire culture
Sure, there is a cultural problem, and sure Islam is a part of that culture, but not the entire part, otherwise gang rape would not be conducted by non-Muslims. Where did I say Islam is the entire part? Where did anybody say that non Muslims don't commit crimes? I'm saying that people from Muslim countries are over proportionally involved in crimes and trouble making in MY country.


If relevatising means wanting to focus on the bigger picture then I guess I am doing it, but hey, these days it seems that any attempt to not blame Muslims or liberals for all of Germanys problems is some kind of naivety or sin, eh?Sorry, but to me it seems you're just pointing at evil stuff in other countries and say: "Look there are problems too". Yes, there are other problems too but I don't have to deal with them HERE. The bigger picture in MY country is that we don't have issues with South African Christians (to my knowledge at least). We DO have issues with lots of people from Islamic countries who more often than any other group of people don't want to integrate into our society and don't want to respect the local rules and laws.

[Schroeder]

Here is a nice article by the magazine Cicero written by Egyptian born Hamed Abdel-Samad.
It's in German so I used google translator and corrected some of it myself:
The German original can be found here:http://www.cicero.de/berliner-republik/zu-den-ereignissen-koeln-religion-ist-mitverantwortlich/60341

"That has nothing to do with Islam"


The attacks on women have something to do with Islam, says Hamed Abdel-Samad. The strict sexual morality that hierarchy and gender apartheid often causes the contrary. A religion that sees the woman as either possession or risk, is part of the problem


One does not have to take a stand on all issues. Especially when not all the facts and details are on the table. I have not expressed myself so far to the events in Cologne, because I go near the issue emotionally, and I prefer to give my judgment, instead of making my feelings public. Nevertheless, I want to say a few words on the subject of sexual harassment as a whole.

I come from Egypt, where sexual harassment of women has reached an unsustainable level, because at the beginning we had this phenomenon either concealed or downplayed. On the one hand we did not want to admit that in a supposedly moral-religious society, many women are sexually harassed. Secondly, we were afraid of negative impacts on tourism, which is one of the main sources of income of the country. They even went further and made the victims responsible for the phenomenon themselves. Because of how they dressed. The hypocrisy and fear for their image had led to a small phenomenon becoming an epidemic. About 95 percent of Egyptian women report today from everyday experiences with sexual harassment and coercion.


This has nothing to do with Islam?

I have tried to explain the causes of this epidemic in my books,. Especially I followed the question of how far the phenomenon has to do with Islam.

I was in Egypt and Morocco and witnessed some cases of collective harassment. Almost without exception, it was not by religious young people, but by small groups that were often under the influence of drugs. It is forbidden to a devout Muslim to touch a women who isn't ones wife, even if it is one's own fiancée. Devout Muslims aren't even allowed to shake hands with women. Salafists in Egypt even think that a man on the bus must not occupy the seat, a woman has just left, because the warmth of her body could excite him sexually.

Nevertheless, or perhaps because of it, you can not say that sexual harassment has nothing to do with Islam. Because this strict sexual morality that hierarchy and gender apartheid is does often turn the contrary. A religion that sees the woman as either possession of the man, or as a threat to his morale is partly responsible.

40 years ago, hardly a woman in Cairo wore a headscarf. Public sexual harassment that time was almost nonexistent. Today, hardly a woman is unveiled, yet women are harassed and groped on the street. This applies to Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan and the same for most other Islamic countries, which are on the top list of sexual harassment in the world. Even in rich Saudi Arabia, the phenomenon is widespread. One could suspect a direct correlation between veiling and sexual harassment here. It has to do with the real existing Islam, but not only. Even in India, the epidemic is widespread. It has primarily to do with hierarchy and with a culture, that considers women to be inferior. Therefore, India must not be used as an example in order to relativize the problem among Muslims.


Porn star from the Internet

The young generation in the Muslim world has grown up in a duality. At home and in the mosque it is morally strict upbringing. Men and women have little chance to build a healthy, balanced relationship. On the Internet, however, they experience a world in which there are no boundaries between man and woman, in which there is no fixed morality. Islamic countries are the at the top of the list of consumption of porn videos. This duality creates a disturbed relationship of men to women. From this duality also many young Muslims are affected, who live in closed communities in Europe and are still exposed to the seductions of an open society.

We've experienced many years of disintegration in the Arab world. This leads to more individualization. By dissolution, and individualization processes four phenomena were accelerated: terrorism, the protest movement, emigration and sexual harassment. All four phenomena are due to the rapid social change. Neither the state nor the family can fulfill promises to its own subjects or members any more. Neither state nor family have their subjects under control any more. All four groups feel robbed of their right to a dignified life from their own countries and from all over the world. So they take to the streets or take a trip over the ocean and want to pick up with their own hands what they think they deserve.

Many young Arabs leave their country perishing and come to Europe. The majority of them want to live in peace and prosperity. But many of them also come with the epidemic of duality in their luggage: with the hope of Europe and the contempt of it's values. With conservative morality and the desire for freedom and freedom of movement. Since then suddenly the community is lacking in the West who can monitor their moral behavior, they freak out, organize themselves into small groups and make spare Communities. Some are Salafists, the others are dealers, street thieves or gropers. Some see in the European men only the crusaders who want to destroy Islam, the others see in the women only the porn star that they saw earlier on the Internet.


We need to talk!
Germany must not repeat the mistake that were done in Egypt. No holding back of evidence out of fear for generalization and abuse from the right wing movments. Of course, not all Muslims, and not all refugees can be blamed for the crimes of a small group, but precisely this majority of Muslims are now asked to devote themselves finally to these problems of their own communities. Instead of forgetting the real victims after every incident and calling themselves and their peaceful Islam the victims time and again! I wish we had more honesty in terms of sexual morality and the potential for violence in Islam.

And if Germany does not want the topics of Islam and refugees are exploited by the right edge, then it has to finally put hese topics in the mainstream of society and talk openly and honestly about it! Whether fundamentalism or sexual harassment whether refusal to integrate or crime - we have serious problems. To hush up and to whitewash will make everything worse!

Mrs. Merkel, Mr. Interior Minister, take over from here!

[Skybird]

Good man, Hamed-Samad. I quoted him myself repeatedly. I met him once, some years ago, and we had 5-10 minutes of chatter during a break at where he held a speech and signed books. Back then he still had some hopes due to the Arab Spring. He has woken up to reality since then, it seems. His latest books speak Tacheless, and thus are pretty much hated in Germany, especially by the politically correct establishment. But he knows his stuff -and from both sides of the fence, since he was member of the Muslim brotherhood, once. Being the son of a not really moderate Egyptian cleric quite well-known in Egypt , having come to Europe while fleeing from sexual abuse (he was raped as a juvenile) and in his own self-description filled from head to toe with dripping hate and despise for Western values and freedom, he did a tremendous metarmophosis. He is not shy to admit that he was an utmost radical fanatic himself back then. Until some time ago he taught oriental history at the Jewish (!) Institute in Munich, and holds high interest in Buddhism and Japanese culture. He lives protected by Bodyguards. High-ranking "academic" and religious authorities in Egypt have issued a fatwa against him, calling for his murder.

The titles of his latest books speak volumes on why German establishment and Islam-appeasers hate him so much: "Islamischer Faschismus. Eine Analyse", and "Mohamed - Eine Abrechnung." Good readings, btw. Very sharp, and unforgiving. No comparison to his tame autobiographic first book "Farewell to Heaven". I always burst in laughter when some well-meaning idiots try to explain to him what the difference between Islam and "Islamism" is and how a religious fanatic ticks. He has been that himself. Tell a bird how to fly or a fish how to swim in the sea!

[Skybird]

Hamed-Samad leaves no doubt on it. He does not hide that he sees Islam as totalitarian (like I do), and non-reformable (like I do) - to see it differently, he writes, means to already miss the very starting point of why this ideology even exists - not to mention its content.

He writes the only way for migrants in the West to arrive in the modern time, is to bypass Islam as-it-is, and to form newly an adapated set of pragmatic humanist values, pragmatically, on basis of everyday needs and everyday-life-lessons.

But that, what you get then, is no Islam anymore. That's what he does not say (but I say since years). That is what its about: not "reforming" an existing religious ideology, but to replace it with a new one.

I always said so, since years: that Islam is non-reformable, here him and me fully agree. And that it instead needs to be completely replaced, I also say since always. He avoids putting it that clearly, as far as I know at least, but this conclusion is the only consequence he can draw when saying Islam cannot be reformed, every other conclusion would be inconsistent. Maybe he is hesitent to put it that frankly for concerns over his own and his wife'S security. He already has enough hornets buzzing around his head. I donÄT know, to me it makes no sense.

He defends the military's crackdown against the Muslim Brotherhood and Mursi, saying the West's demands for democratical participation of the MB in Egyptian politics is hoplessly naive. So a lack of realism or determination cannot be the cause for his lacking clearness on this question.

[Skybird]

Would you say that Christianity under went such a reform? :hmmm: Perhaps between the New and Old Testaments? Or later? :hmmm:
Certainly there are some schools of Christianity that could be classed as totalitarian, and certainly there are some people who are Christian who wish for total Christian dominance in society, and see the encroachment of any other religion or atheism as a threat to a good, clean, 'Christian' lifestyle.

Some time ago news went around the world about rapes in India (https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=de&ie=UTF8&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.de&sl=de&tl=en&u=http://www.tagesspiegel.de/weltspiegel/indien-vergewaltiger-maedchen-ist-selber-schuld/11446058.html&usg=ALkJrhgXj53nvWnaXyXlqu4qmGP5TIaukQ). The acts were extremely brutal and were carried out by groups of men. Of course that was bad, but one should beware of quick judgments. After all, there are rapes happening in Germany, too. Not all Indians do such a thing. And not all the perpetrators could be identified by name.

Were these perpetrators even Indians at all? Could it not have been German tourists? Considering how German tourists often behave, that is is more than likely. We must not allow getting distracted from our fight against the old FDP Macho Brüderle [who was involved in an idiotic though relatively harmless scandal of words about a chauvinistic comment he made, Skybird ] by events in India.

This is almost exactly the reasoning of radical feminism and the great moguls of political correctness, as far as it concerns the massive sexual crimes in the New Year's Eve (https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=de&ie=UTF8&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.de&sl=de&tl=en&u=http://www.tagesspiegel.de/politik/nach-den-uebergriffen-in-koeln-zahl-der-anzeigen-steigt-auf-379/12810800.html&usg=ALkJrhjcku9LTfGOqiVXr74YVMuWxRvfJg) night. That amongst long-established old Germans sexism also exists. And that at the Oktoberfest, women also would be groped (angegrapscht) by men.

---

You do not see the parallel here? Think again until you do.

[Skybird]

Cologne, Central Train Station, New Year'S Eve: now over 500 - five hundred - complaints filed. Still growing.

It should dawn now on even the strongest of reality deniers what dimension of crime the events had.

And a former federal police officer, born in Cologne and having done patrols at the train station for three years, now having left the job and having become a professional UFC fighter, landed a viral hit by posting his experiences at FB and said that 30-50 complaints of pickpocketing and assault get filed every day - with the suspects almost always being "asylum seekers from Northafrica". He asks:

"Wie kann ein Asylbewerber, während sein Antrag geprüft wird, Straftaten begehen ohne Angst zu haben, ausgewiesen zu werden...??"

Translated: "How could an asylum seeker, while his proposal gets checked by the authorities, commit crimes meanwhile without needing to fear to get kicked out...?"Indeed. Can somebody please explain this to the German people.

You seek asyulm? You behave - else... . You obey the local house rules. Commit your first offence, crime: you're out, once and forever. Only this, and nothing else, makes sense. No second and third and fourth and fifth chances, no asylum granted with just a single conflict with the law. . Only a nation of fools allows criminals in to grant them asylum. Such a nation will have its foolish home population overwhelmed and its rules overthrown sooner or later.

He also indicated the level of despair and frustration amongst police officers, were tremendous. Since years. I know from a policeman in my own home town, who does shooting training together with my father in a sports shooting club, that many police officers dispise the German courts and judges. If things have detoriated that far, this really is an alarm call of utmost urgency. It seems there unfolds even a sense of hostility amongst police ranks.


Total and complete system failure. And not just since 10 days.

[Wamiduku]

The last few days, news have slipped through the Swedish media censorship that Cologne style assaults during the Stockholm youth festival "We Are Sthlm" last August. Just like in the Cologne case, mainstream media has started writing, although in a muffled tone, only after the news started spreading through alternative media.

The cover-up has been effective since August but an anonymous police officer and a psychologist (treating the traumatized ethnically Swedish victims) have finally leaked. The psychologist confirms that major newspaper "DN" knew about the assaults and was prepared to write about them, but withdrew their interest once they found out that the perpetrators where muslim refugees.

http://nyheteridag.se/exposing-major-pc-cover-up-in-sweden-leading-daily-dagens-nyheter-refused-to-write-about-cologne-like-sex-crimes-in-central-stockholm/

DN is doing damage control right now and blaming the police,
http://www.dn.se/nyheter/sverige/overgreppen-pa-festivalen-i-stockholm-rapporterades-aldrig-vidare/

...but unfortunately for DN, the psychologist has saved voicemail recordings and emails.

So far, it seems both DN and the police are to blame for this cover-up attempt.

[Skybird]

And news from the relativization-brigade. The vice-chairman of the Greeen Party in Hamburg, Michael Gwosdz, posted at Facebook this:

"Als Mann weiß ich, jeder noch so gut erzogene und tolerante Mann ist ein potenzieller Vergewaltiger. Auch ich. Wir Männer müssen uns dessen bewusst sein – nur dann sind wir auch in der Lage, erkennen zu können, wenn sexuelle Gewalt und Nötigung beginnt. (…) Wer das nicht für sich selbst akzeptiert, wird mit dem Erkennen von Grenzen Schwierigkeiten haben." -

(As a man I know that every man , no mmatter how well edcuated and tolerant, is a potential rapist. Even me. Us men have to be aware of this - only then we will be able to recognise the beginning of sexual violence and constraint. (...) Who does not accept this knowledge for himself, will find difficulties with recognising limits.")

Criminalising all men and putting them all under general suspicion. Thank you, you rotten skunk. Of course he is supporting one of the very oldest and strongest propaganda thesis of radical feminism.

Speaking for myself I can assure for certain that I am not a potential rapist, and pose a violent threat to women only in so far as they may attack and harm me in a way comparable to what a male attacker may try to do me in order to harm me or overthrow me or rob me or betray me. Implying that I am a potential rapist, is slander, an impertinence, and an illustration of what stupid feminist mindset's child he is.

Several criminal complaints have been filed against him, and at FB he has earned a ****storm that unfolded in record time.

The political youth elite of Germany. Wowh.

For the record. I am all for equality of men and women before the law. And not for anything more than this. I don'T say men are more worth than women, but I say men and women are not the same. Sexual gender is not arbitrary, and is not just a product of cultural habits, but is a biological and psychological, hardcoded fact. Genderism compares to science like astrology compares to physics, and radical feminism is nothing else but brutal egoism founded on a political lobby proposing sexual discrimination against men. To hell with both these mad people. Celebrate the differences between men and women! They might be different. But it seems they are mutually complementary...?! ;)

[Wamiduku]

The political youth elite of Germany. Wowh.

It seems that you've gotten clones of our Swedish politicians. It's sad to see that Germany is also being destroyed by the ruling elite.

[ikalugin]

regarding the scholar of Islam.

There is no greater zealot than the convert.

[Nippelspanner]

You seek asyulm? You behave - else... . You obey the local house rules. Commit your first offence, crime: you're out, once and forever. Only this, and nothing else, makes sense. No second and third and fourth and fifth chances, no asylum granted with just a single conflict with the law. . Only a nation of fools allows criminals in to grant them asylum. Such a nation will have its foolish home population overwhelmed and its rules overthrown sooner or later.
Thia, completely, totally, absolutely this.
And it is beyond me why this isn't standard procedure.

:hmmm:

[Schroeder]

(As a man I know that every man , no mmatter how well edcuated and tolerant, is a potential rapist. Even me. Us men have to be aware of this - only then we will be able to recognise the beginning of sexual violence and constraint. (...) Who does not accept this knowledge for himself, will find difficulties with recognising limits.")

I just threw up.:nope:
And those clowns are in office!:/\\!!

"How could an asylum seeker, while his proposal gets checked by the authorities, commit crimes meanwhile without needing to fear to get kicked out...?
That is absolutely beyond me as well. We're actually inviting people to commit crime with the current laws. I hope the 68er are happy now...:nope:

[Skybird]

Thia, completely, totally, absolutely this.
And it is beyond me why this isn't standard procedure.

:hmmm:
Ever tried to get an American Green Card while the US law enforcement offices are investigating charges against you, or a sentence form a German court is pending...? :D ;)

[Skybird]

It seems that you've gotten clones of our Swedish politicians. It's sad to see that Germany is also being destroyed by the ruling elite.
Sure. Sweden is still seen and given as the great example Germans must follow. In many regards, not just this one. Don't take this personal, please, but I have big issues with the political entity that Sweden is, I see it as an example that is to fear, not to be admired. In many regards.

I'm a Gripen fan, however. :D

[Skybird]

From the New York Times, on the German naivety on the matter:

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/10/opinion/sunday/germany-on-the-brink.html?_r=1



From the Telegraph on the distortions of leftist and politically correct thinking on this mass crime:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/telegraph-view/12090260/Migrants-to-the-West-must-obey-the-rules.html

[Cybermat47]

If you can't obey the laws of the country you moved to, why did you move there in the first place?

All of these rapists should be deported.

[Skybird]

If you can't obey the laws of the country you moved to, why did you move there in the first place?

All of these rapists should be deported.

All thieves, burglars, assaulters as well. ;) You ask for asylum? You better don't conflict with the land's penalty code. Not even for just a single time.

If somebody does not know what the colours of traffic lioghts mean and waks over a red light, that can be forgiven (there are migrants like that, believe it or not). Stealing, assaulting, robbing , not to mention harassing and raping and murdering - completely off limits. One strike-rule. Not three: ONE.

You pick the silver spoon from my buffet's table? I throw you out. On the first theft already, not after just the second, third or fourth. If that means misery for you in your place of origin, that is not my problem.

I do not accept endless tirades of culture-relativists and sociologists anymore. I'm sick and tired of them. SICK AND TIRED. Since years and years I see them and hear them eroding this place, and all the time things grew worse and worse, not better, but always: WORSE, WORSE, WORSE. The naivety knows no limits, the infantility is without boundaries. My unforgivingness and unwillingness to accept even just one single more stinking foul "compromises today - results from their "achievements" hollowing out this country. We got suffocated with sensibility and reasonability and concern and who-knows-what-you-mention- it. The lack of oxygene has damaged our brains. We see double images, and have hallucinations.

[Schroeder]

All of these rapists should be deported.
Not going to happen as we don't deport to most places of origin of those guys. If the perpetrator has to fear for his life or health in his country of origin he can't be deported and they know it.:-?

[Betonov]

Not going to happen as we don't deport to most places of origin of those guys. If the perpetrator has to fear for his life or health in his country of origin he can't be deported and they know it.:-?

No one wants to kill them in Antarctica though.

[Nippelspanner]

Not going to happen as we don't deport to most places of origin of those guys. If the perpetrator has to fear for his life or health in his country of origin he can't be deported and they know it.:-?
And on top of that, they first have to get a trial and a sentence. And that alone takes forever.
even then, he can stay and enjoy the comfort of German prisons - paid by us.
Enjoy your stay, Ahmed, and the Women when you're out again after a few months, because you're "just a victim too" bla bla... :shifty:

[ikalugin]

The impression I get is that German law enforcement has two main problems now:
- inability to prosecute suspected criminals due to the inability to narrow down the responsibility to a specific individual during crimes commited by a group.
- inability to deport criminals who did not commit heavy crimes.

This could lead to the perception by the newly arrived people that they are not only entitled to the exceptional social services, but also that they would not suffer consequences for their actions.

While you can't fix the 2nd problem due to the international conventions you can try to fix the first one (via a network of informants for example) and you could also take other measures such as forced fingerprinting of all new arrivers.

[mapuc]

The impression I get is that German law enforcement has two main problems now:
- inability to prosecute suspected criminals due to the inability to narrow down the responsibility to a specific individual during crimes commited by a group.
- inability to deport criminals who did not commit heavy crimes.

This could lead to the perception by the newly arrived people that they are not only entitled to the exceptional social services, but also that they would not suffer consequences for their actions.

While you can't fix the 2nd problem due to the international conventions you can try to fix the first one (via a network of informants for example) and you could also take other measures such as forced fingerprinting of all new arrivers.

The are many stories "floating around" regarding what happened in Cologne and other German cities.

One of them is about how the Police in Cologne was humiliated.

I wasn't there so I can't say what is true and what is not

Markus

[Skybird]

Its a blame game between the most superior politician responsible for the police - which would be the interiror minister of North Rhine-Westphalia, Mr. Jäger (SPD), and the police officers in Cologne who were at the scene, serve on the scene since long, and did the paper work on that night (and still do so: 540 complaints now filed, now over 40% of these over sexual harassment and attempted or done rape). The shame of victims of sexual violence is the greatest, these are the victims that take the longest time to bring up the courage to go to the police, so the longer complaints keep coming in, the higher the share of complaints over sexual harassment amongst these "latecomers". Jäger is no objkective neutral in this, he has his big share of responsibility of having reduced plice forces and cut budgets for the police, so his own fate is at stake (not that it counts muich). If needing to chose between Jäger and the police officers, I tend to believe those who were on the scene, and who do the paperwork and know the police rercords first hand and the numbers because they wrote the complaints. And that is neither Mr. Jäger, nor official - and politically regulated - spokesmen of the police.

It is the officers themselves I believe most.

Over 200 cases of sexual violence, by the current standing of records. So much for those unscrupulous propagandists who already insist again that the majority of crimes were about stealing purses and cellphones. Yes, 60% of the filed complaints are on that. And over 200 complaints are filed for sexual violence and attempted or completed rape. 200 humiliated and to varying degrees traumatized girls and women for whom life is not like it was before, and whjo have fear now added to their everday life as an omnipresent companion.

[Kongo Otto]

/zynism mode on
Nah c'mon, nobody could have known that when we (the German Government) bring in some one Million welfare tourists with the mentality and traditions still in the 13th century, that they will bring there mentaliiy and traditions with them.
/zynism mode off

Don't forget they all have at least a College or University degree and are all higly searched Doctors, Engineeers and so on and so forth.
And of course this has nothing to do with the religion of the permanently offended, erm, sorry, i mean Islam, as always, some could say.
/ second time zynism mode off

[Skybird]

Number of complaints filed with the police over assaults at Cologne Central Station now over 650.

[Schroeder]

It seems that the police forces at least in North Rhine-Westphalia have been gagged for years when it came to publish the origin of criminals. I'm certain that the same is true for pretty much all states in Germany.
Sorry, German only:
http://www1.wdr.de/themen/politik/diskriminierung-polizei-erlass-100.html

[Wildcat]

What a lot of you people don't seem to get is this:

Germany cannot deport asylum seekers. It is against international law.

Once someone applies for asylum in any country signatory to the UN convention regarding treatment of refugees / asylum seekers, that country cannot deport them. CAN NOT. To do so is a violation of the UN convention and in any civilized country would result in huge political ramifications and financial penalties. Refugees can only leave the country if they A) decide they want to leave on their own accord and B) have a country in mind that will take them in and where the refugee can PROVE to the satisfaction of the immigration authorities' that they will not be in danger if they attempt to enter said country.

The refugees all know this. They understand it very well which is why they are not afraid to commit crimes in your countries. They're untouchable. They can be charged, but being in jail is likely an improvement in quality of life for many of them. They don't need to work, they get free food, medical and dental care, television all day, and then they get released, likely after the fighting in their country is finished. Ultra-left wingers and refugee apologists get to these people as soon as they're in the country and feed them with all the information they need to stay there as long as possible and how to receive as much of the government's money as is possible.

If you want to deport asylum seekers you need to have your country change its participation in the UN convention dealing with refugees. Unlikely to happen barring massive political changes.

In the case of Japan which has not changed at all since WW2, they just put asylum seekers in immigration camps permanently, and occasionally murder them in their cells. They killed 3 asylum seekers out of a population of 500 in 2014 inside the government camps, check online about that.

Again, you don't need to believe me, but I've gone through this process firsthand which is a lot more than anyone else can say in this thread. I challenge anyone who thinks they "know more" about this issue than I do. I've seen the process from the inside out, from start to finish. I know exactly what those refugees are doing, and 90-99% of them are bad people and they are just in your country to take your money, and they do not like you, and they despise your country and your way of life. Many of them would not hesitate to kill you if they thought they could get away with it. They are sick people.

Yes, there are a few who are good people, and who truly fit the definition of refugees - people running from violence, oppression, persecution etc. (The UN has strict guidelines regarding what is acceptable as a reason for asylum, look it up). All these fake refugees make it impossible for real victims to get in though.

[Rockstar]

International law recognizes that countries have the right to exclude asylum seekers who may be a danger to society. These include those who have committed serious crimes, pose threats to national security, or who have committed war crimes or "crimes against humanity".

Terrorism concerns can lead to automatic disqualification from asylum. Even before the events of 9/11, people with terrorist connections were ineligible for asylum and subject to deportation. However, laws passed by Congress after 9/11 in 2001 and again 2005 have broadened restrictions even further. Under current U.S. law, any person who provides "material support" to terrorists will be refused asylum. Since there is no exemption for cases of coercion, even acts such as providing drinking water at gunpoint to terrorists are to be considered material support.

[Schroeder]

International law recognizes that countries have the right to exclude asylum seekers who may be a danger to society. These include those who have committed serious crimes, pose threats to national security, or who have committed war crimes or "crimes against humanity".

Terrorism concerns can lead to automatic disqualification from asylum. Even before the events of 9/11, people with terrorist connections were ineligible for asylum and subject to deportation. However, laws passed by Congress after 9/11 in 2001 and again 2005 have broadened restrictions even further. Under current U.S. law, any person who provides "material support" to terrorists will be refused asylum. Since there is no exemption for cases of coercion, even acts such as providing drinking water at gunpoint to terrorists are to be considered material support.
^This.

The Convention relating to the Status of Refugees allows to deport convicted criminals and that is what Germany is planning to do now (though I doubt I'll ever see it actually happen...).

[Rockstar]

^This.

The Convention relating to the Status of Refugees allows to deport convicted criminals and that is what Germany is planning to do now (though I doubt I'll ever see it actually happen...).

The first step is for officials to recognize they live in a fantasy world and ground themselves in reality so they can see the problem. Only then can deportation proceedings begin.

[Dowly]

The first step is for officials to recognize they live in a fantasy world and ground themselves in reality so they can see the problem. Only then can deportation proceedings begin.
Exactly.

I think this video (the woman) illustrates quite correctly how most European governments act atm:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FoaCnOqwQoI

[Jimbuna]

Well done that French court....common sense prevailed.

BOULOGNE-SUR-MER, France (AP) — A British man who risked being convicted as a smuggler prevailed in court Thursday, convincing judges that he acted with his heart when he tried to deliver a four-year-old Afghan girl from a squalid migrant camp in France to family members in Britain.

The three-judge panel threw out the smuggling charge — which carried a penalty of up to five years in prison — convicting him instead of the far less grievous crime of endangerment and suspended the 1000-euro ($1,090) fine.

The court room erupted in cheers at the verdict.

http://news.yahoo.com/hero-smuggler-briton-tried-bid-save-migrant-girl-084538316.html

[STEED]

German Finance Minister Wolfgang Schaeuble on Saturday mooted the possibility of an additional EU-wide petrol tax to cover the increasing cost of migration to Europe.

https://about.hr/news/europe/german-finance-minister-wants-eu-wide-petrol-tax-pay-migrants-6625

:hmmm:

[Schroeder]

https://about.hr/news/europe/german-finance-minister-wants-eu-wide-petrol-tax-pay-migrants-6625

:hmmm:
Has already been shot down. but I think it's time that the other EU countries pay their share (and that Merkel finally comes to her senses and does a 180° turn around which is about as likely as world peace by tomorrow:/\\!!).
The opinion in the population has changed and for the first time a majority of Germans is unsatisfied with Merkel's migration politics...I still don't think she cares....welcome to "democracy".:/\\!!

[Skybird]

A highly relevant analysis by Gunnar Heinsohn in the Neuer Zürcher Zeitung (Switzerland), so it is in German. If you think it makes sense to do so, use a bot-translator. I have given up on these - you always seem to end up doing a full manual translation yourself anyway.

http://www.nzz.ch/feuilleton/willkommensunkultur-1.18678059

The best is yet to come. Bon Appetit.

[Jimbuna]

German Finance Minister Wolfgang Schaeuble on Saturday mooted the possibility of an additional EU-wide petrol tax to cover the increasing cost of migration to Europe.

https://about.hr/news/europe/german-finance-minister-wants-eu-wide-petrol-tax-pay-migrants-6625

:hmmm:

We need the referendum as quickly as possible...it is looking like a 6% majority in favour of leaving.

[Jimbuna]

Try telling that to what is looking like a majority of those countries who are not net payers. I honestly don't know what they have to offer so I won't post a link to the tables for fear of being accused of bias.

[Schroeder]

Austria has just announced to only take a certain amount of refugees in every year.
http://www.dw.com/en/austria-to-cap-refugee-influx/a-18993775
Merkel of course doesn't want to hear any of that.:/\\!!

[mapuc]

In the Danish Parliament the politicians, are discussing , the ability to create state-run refugee camps-this to relieve the Danish municipalities that are under very tough pressure due to the large influx of refugees entries and immigrants.

Markus

[Jimbuna]

I wonder how much longer before the who;e house of cards comes tumbling down :hmm2:

[Schroeder]

I wonder how much longer before the who;e house of cards comes tumbling down :hmm2:
Can't be long. The stage is already set and only a single person is still clinging to the show and that's Merkel. But since her own party is completely spineless and was demoted to a "yes, mam club" they won't dare to take her down.
I'm actually surprised that people haven't taken to the streets yet....:doh:

[Betonov]

Austria has just announced to only take a certain amount of refugees in every year.
http://www.dw.com/en/austria-to-cap-refugee-influx/a-18993775
Merkel of course doesn't want to hear any of that.:/\\!!

Guess who is just under Austria waiting for them to close the doors :/\\!!

[Schroeder]

Guess who is just under Austria waiting for them to close the doors :/\\!!
Oh come on, Checkoslovenia is big. You can take a few millions of them.:yeah:

:O::D

[Betonov]

Oh come on, Checkoslovenia is big. You can take a few millions of them.:yeah:

:O::D

That'd be nice. No more than a half hour drive to Prague...

[mapuc]

A Danish Party-LA(Liberal alliance) have made a proposal, that Denmark should resign from the UN Refugee Convention for two years and during that time close the border for refugees entries.

Almost every other party in the Danish Parliament are against this.

Markus

[Skybird]

I'm actually surprised that people haven't taken to the streets yet....:doh:
Me not. Long training, and state-run re-education camps (="public schools") pay off.

Why do you think must even the 5% of re-education camps that are "private" schools run state-ordered doctrine? Why do you think get history courses systematically deleted from the curriculum - and replaced with courses in "social competence training"...?

Oder bist Du etwa kein sozialer Mensch, Du böser Bub, Du...? ---> LINK- Der Sozialmensch (http://www.misesde.org/?p=5849&print=1)

[mapuc]

Earlier today I saw a "refugee" complaining on the Danish public Service in the prime time news program

He was complaining about not getting a house, a well paid(I think he said) job and other things

He is from Iran

His complain made me mad-We give him shelter, safe place etc

He said he will leave Denmark-I say- Good bye take the others like you with you.

Markus

[Jimbuna]

Shame on you both :hmmm:

[Dowly]

UPDATE!

To the surprise of absolutely no one, our glorious Prime Minister's house in Kempele is still not housing any asylum seekers as he promised.

[Schroeder]

They could have stayed in Turkey and considering how fast the word of anything spreads among refugees (even while being on the Balkan route) they sure knew the risks involved but decided to take them anyway. If you've escaped to safe Turkey and then decide to take your children on a shady smuggler's boat in mid winter to go to some other place then I have little sympathy for those who don't make it except for the children as they were just victims of their parents poor decisions.

[Skybird]

"I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine." - Atlas Shrugged




One of those quotes like "Do what you want" that are so easily to be missed in their true deeper meaning, and can so easily be misunderstood.


It's about rational self-interest. People are free to pursue their interests and wishes, but their rights to do so end where they can do that only by making claim for others, and demanding others to serve them. Because that means: declaring the other one's own subject and possession. A slave.



The problem of these people is neither that they want to escape poverty, nor want to escape war, but that they think this gives them right to make claim for other people, and denying to see how themselves, their parents and grandparents, since generations have contributed to establish and maintain those conditions they now demand the Westerners to clear for them - at the West's expense.



That's why I have no bad conscience at all to tell them my "No!" even right into their face (already have had the opportunity to do so). Their misery is not my command, their wish is not my obligation, their history not my guilt.



Ours is our fruits of our labour, and that labour of our forefathers. This tradition and context is what gives us the right to claim all what is ours as "ours". Foreigners who have not contributed their share to forming this, have no natural, god-given claim for this. We paid what we traded with others, and we delivered what we got paid for.



Only in so far as we have cheated in these deals, we are in a moral responsibility to stop doing so.



Nobody has a right to go to another place where people already have formed communities and established nations, enforce himself onto them and demand "Here I am, now see how you can deal with me." NOBODY. I totally reject the international rule for claiming asylum. Such a general right does not and cannot exist. People have a right to travel somewhere, if they can reach "somewhere" by moving over ground that is not claimed by others or whose owners voluntarily allow them to move on, and when they reached their destination, thy can ask whether they would be accepted. And they are demanded to be prepared for moving on, if the answer is No. - Nobody has the right to move and live just anywhere. Its against the natural birth rights of all others to claim so.



I do not accept to comply with with moral blackmailing. Moral blackmailing is a contradiction in itself, since it implies I can obey it only when violating my own morals.

I unconditionally reject to do that, no matter the circumstances of a specific case.

You must necessarily contribute to the community and give more than you take. But you must give at least as much as you take, in other word's you have to pay for what you take. Nobody has the right to claim he may live at the expense of others. If you boycot the community, you must be able to afford doing so.

Nothing of all this ^ is a revolutionary or new revelation. It simple is plain reason. Americans understand this probably much easier than most Europeans. I am no fan of Ronald Reagan (nor has Ayn Rand been, btw., linking his mindset to that of the Middle age in her last speech in 1981), but for one sentence he spoke I am really thankful:

"Government is no solution to our problem - government IS the problem."

Words weighing heavier than pure gold. You can distort them and abuse them, like gold can be painted over. But under the surface, it still shines, and cannot be turned into something else (law of identity : A is A).

[SadhuFM]

Not going to talk about the subjective reasons: the games of politicians, the war in Syria, etc. This is not the cause but the consequence. Karma, if you will. Four years ago I told my friend: if Europe will continue to play in tolerance and to break natural laws, it will be Islamized within. Not because the Islamic radicals are right. Just the universe always maintains a balance. Figuratively speaking, where too much of liberalism, there comes the Sharia (in this case). What now? Presumably, the pendulum will swing toward the revival of Nazism in Europe. Nothing new. History is not linear is the spiral. All will be repeated till people don't learn the lessons and till they don't correct their mistakes .

[Skybird]

After the events at the central station in Cologne, the Bundeskriminalamt BKA (=FBI) has taken control of nation-wide investigations, and presented the statistical results. Additionally to the event sat Cologne, at New years Eve in 12 of the German 16 federal state charges over robbery, sexual attacks, harassment and rape in context of attacking groups and bigger flocks of attacking men have been filed with the police, The overwhelming majority of these are sexual crimes being filed.

As I said, it is not just Cologne, that was just the prominent tip of the iceberg, a hotspot. The attacks were covering the whole country.

Says not me. Says the German FBI (BKA).

Meanwhile more German police officers anonymously confirmed that there were political orders in place that commanded the police to hide from the public the identity of criminal offenders if they were Muslims, or migrants. Also further confirmaqiton for what I have reported some months ago already: that the police is ordered to stay silent and hide from media and public any operation they get called to within migrant camps.

Same reports reach us from Sweden, were the police also seems to have been gagged to reveal the unwanted grim truth about the high rate of migrants and Muslims in certain crime categories related to sexual attacks and robbery.

Germany attacks sovereign nation of Austria for having closed its border without having asked Berlin for permission first. That the Germans have the nerve to pull this stunt, is a bit nerve-killing, since it were the Germans who did not mind to ask anyone around them before they switched on the giant migrant-magnet last autumn, bringing everybody into the big mess there now is.

There will be elections in three federal state sin germany early March. The SPD is projected to suffer huge losses, also the CDU must prepare to lose. The controversial AfD is currently projected to gain 11% or more.

If this comes true, one can be quite certain that Merkel will not be chancellor after the current term any longer. The only question then is whether she will be tolerated in office until the end of the currently running term - or gets kicked by party rebels first.

Polls show that over 80, I think even over 90% of Germans are opposing her policy now. The Merkel-party only stays behind her, mostly united, because they fear for their own politial careers and incomes. Merkel leaves behind a personell vacuum that she has intentionally created to eliminate all oppositiuona nd possible rivals to her in the past 10 years. And this now takes revenge.

She would not be in command any longer, yes. But that in itself is not a punishment, nor is she being held responsible. She will lean back and can enjoy the rest of her community-financed life. What a worthless nothingness she is.

I say: let her and the rest of the parliament choose between life in labour camp, and a bullet. The state is a criminal syndicate. Never forget that. Take away the stealing, plundering, robbing and blackmailing and protection money business, and what is left of the state - is nothing. Which means, stealing, plundering, robbing and blackmailing are the very essence of states (national states are a conception which is relatively new and unproven in history, btw. Just a short time ago people would not have had any idea of what you were talking about when you would have explained to them the idea of modern states. I think identity of cultural peer groups get formed by very different variables and factors than just passports. Its the difference between bureaucratic formality - and culture/ethnicity/civilization, Weltanschauung and language. The left intentionally abuses this and focusses on the formality thing only. This is how they help to create the immense rifts and distortions in Western culture in an effort to bring it down - and replace it with their dreamed-of utopia. Well, you can try to ignore reality. But you cannot escape the consequences of trying that, can you).

[tomfon]

They could have stayed in Turkey and considering how fast the word of anything spreads among refugees (even while being on the Balkan route) they sure knew the risks involved but decided to take them anyway. If you've escaped to safe Turkey and then decide to take your children on a shady smuggler's boat in mid winter to go to some other place then I have little sympathy for those who don't make it except for the children as they were just victims of their parents poor decisions.

Not if the Turkish "smuggler" points a gun at them, Schroeder. Which, by the way, is the case.

[Schroeder]

Not if the Turkish "smuggler" points a gun at them, Schroeder. Which, by the way, is the case.
So this people came from Syria or wherever into Turkey and the first thing that happened there was that some random smuggler pointed a gun at them and told them to get into his boat immediately and pay him a couple of thousand bucks?:doh:
Sure.

[tomfon]

So this people came from Syria or wherever into Turkey and the first thing that happened there was that some random smuggler pointed a gun at them and told them to get into his boat immediately and pay him a couple of thousand bucks?:doh:
Sure.

No smuggler is random, especially when a million refugees with "a couple of thousand bucks" are waiting to cross the Aegean Sea. So, yes, they have to keep "moving".

Secondly, the refugees want to reach Northern Europe. Northern Europe is their destination and they are desperate to get there, indeed. But this doesn't mean or prove that they are willing to jeopardize their own life and/or the lives of their own children by crossing rough seas in mid-winter, as you have previously said, in order to reach safety. There is a contradiction in terms in this.

[Schroeder]

No smuggler is random, especially when a million refugees with "a couple of thousand bucks" are waiting to cross the Aegean Sea. So, yes, they have to keep "moving".

Secondly, the refugees want to reach Northern Europe. Northern Europe is their destination and they are desperate to get there, indeed. But this doesn't mean or prove that they are willing to jeopardize their own life and/or the lives of their own children by crossing rough seas in mid-winter, as you have previously said, in order to reach safety. There is a contradiction in terms in this.
Where did I say they are trying to reach safety on those boats?
They had already reached safety in Turkey. Every further journey from there is not about safety anymore.:shifty:
So who forced them to press on in smuggler's boats in mid winter?

[kraznyi_oktjabr]

Not if the Turkish "smuggler" points a gun at them, Schroeder. Which, by the way, is the case.Source or even better evidence would be nice.

No smuggler is random, especially when a million refugees with "a couple of thousand bucks" are waiting to cross the Aegean Sea. So, yes, they have to keep "moving".

Secondly, the refugees want to reach Northern Europe. Northern Europe is their destination and they are desperate to get there, indeed. But this doesn't mean or prove that they are willing to jeopardize their own life and/or the lives of their own children by crossing rough seas in mid-winter, as you have previously said, in order to reach safety. There is a contradiction in terms in this.There are safer ways to reach Northern Europe. Many coming from Syria, Iraq and Afganistan to Finland obtain tourist visa to Russia (repordtedly pretty easy for Syrians and Afgans) and travel to Moscow (usually but not necessarily by plane). Then they get to Murmansk (car, bus, train, aircraft your choice), obtain car if they don't have one (required for border crossing) and drive to Raja-Jooseppi border station. Then they simply notify border jaegers of asylum request, paper work is filled and they are bused to Tornio for processing.

Essentially do it as everyone else does. No need to pay thousends of euros to shady smugglers. What is desrcibed above has been going on since about October but become busier after Norway tightened its policies. What I don't really understand is why they don't just catch a train from Moscow to Helsinki? Much faster, propably cheaper and much more comfortable way to do it.

Btw same principle applies to almost any other nation which has land border with Russian Federation or to where you can catch a ferry (e.g. from Saint Petersburg to Stockholm, Sweden). Russians definately aren't forcing anyone to apply for asylum, they are happy if they continue to somewhere else.

[tomfon]

Source or even better evidence would be nice.

I have no evidence to provide. This is something i heard from my brother during a discussion i had with him soon after he had returned from the Greek island of Mytilene (or Lesvos - it's the same thing). He'd been there for three days and during his stay he had the chance to talk with a few people who are actually living there. What i posted above (#861) is what he heard from them. I don't know how they know nor did i ask my brother to tell me so. On the other hand, it makes sense for the "smugglers" to try and "push" as many as they can to the other side since they get paid for it. If a single refugee's denial to cross the water is made accepted, then the whole thing may easily come to a halt and "smugglers" stay out of business. This doesn't seem to be the case.

[Betonov]

I believe tomfon.

The scumbagery some humans are capable of and the reasons behind it can be inconceivable to us westerners.

Of course they will force people on the boats in the middle of winter, as soon as they send one ''batch'' out, the sooner they can take the money from another.
And travel visas are not sold like Piatnik playing cards. Some don't know the right people or have the right connections to aquire visas to travel via Russia.

[Rockstar]

I never heard of a smuggler pointing a gun to someone's head and demand they enter a boat for transportation. In my experience a smuggler might carry a firearm for his own protection, to maintain order or insure they get paid for services rendered.

Though I can believe representatives (official or unofficial) of the state might demand immigrants get out of their country or get a bullet.

[Skybird]

Heared of tomfon's story the first time ever. I do not rule out single cases like this, but it hardly is the rule. The rule is that smuggler's must not point guns at their victims to have them boarding - many of these migrants are so determined or so desperate or both that they do it voluntarily. Even in winter, if for no other reason than to escape the situation they are in, in Turkey and elsewhere.

Also, many of these people cannot realistically assess the risk of boarding a rubber deathtrap - all they see is the goal shore in reach just a mile or two away (in case of Greek island of Lesbos, being extremely close to Turkish mainland's coast, just 2nm or so). "A cat's jump, isn't it? We got this far, lets do the last step, too - let's go!"

No need for smuggler to use weapon's force. They get their customers coming to them voluntarily. The smugglers can dictate the prices anyway, as they pleases.

[mapuc]

Could be true. I heard a Journalist saying something like

The smuggler press as many they can into wreckage of a boat and set autopilot to wards coast of Italy-So maybe the are using some kind of force

The problem is how do we stop these smuggler ?

Edit I guess Skybird is more correctly. See post above mine

Markus

[Skybird]

Two good readings for German readers. Or better: for anybody understanding German.

The first is a psychoanalysts' analysis of Merkel, which pretty much covers my own both private and my former semi-professional psychological view of her.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2016/01/24/psychoanalytiker-hans-joachim-maaz-angela-merkel-_n_9064278.html?utm_hp_ref=germany


And this piece is a German Jew's (of Russian descent) reasoning on why I cnsiders to flee from Germany, his expewriences with Socialism in the soviet Union, how as a young man he and many others believed the murderous illusions of socialism, how the reality brought the utopic dreams down - and that today'S collective belief in economic internationalism and a borderless world compares to and has taken over from the idea of "socialism globally united". A dangerous fixiation that ignores the terrible bloody lessons that are to be learned from last century.

http://www.tagesspiegel.de/politik/deutschland-und-die-fluechtlinge-warum-ich-als-jude-ans-auswandern-denke/v_print/12868328.html?p=

And this: the state TV in Germany is financed by de facto per-head taxation, it thus does not face real competition, can therefore get away with terrible lack of quality, and it is massively influenced by political parties and federal state'S governments, since they interfere extremely heavily in personnel decisions at the boss and chief levels of the broadcasters. As a result both ARD and ZDF today broadcast the official party opinion and the politically wanted political correct thinking . Early March we have elections in three federal states, and the government parties all are projected to suffer massive losses. In the wake of the crisis now, the controversial AfD party now is projected to be gaining rapidly, beeing seen to gain at least 10-11% in all three elections - nd likely becoming even more, with 90% of Germans opposing Merkel now. The SPD in one state now had used its influenced in public TV to ban the AfD from a TV debate duel (the spineless broadcaster did nothing to resist). Credit for this method goes to Putin, so: have a good one, tovarish! In "protest" to this abuse the CDU candidate boyoctts the TV duel, tool, which now is planned to become an SPD-exclusive evening event (and I even have to pay for this propaganda shyt although I do not care for this nonsense at all, can you believe it).

It meanwhile got even better. In the second federal state with upcoming election, the SPD once again has used its political influence to push the broadcasters in that state as well to ban the AfD from participation. And once again the broadcasters fell back and accepted.

Two certain conclusions from this. First, socialists still are the same bunch of unscrupulous suckers like anyone else is, and second the AfD will take huge voters profit from this blatant stupidity.

And third, Putin, Orban and Kaczynski seem to be popular teachers regarding their ways to manipulate the media to suppress unwanted opposition.

P.S. and another consequences by Merkel's reign is that the relation between the sister parties CDU and CSU (the CDU's pendant, so far only staying in Bavaria, but on national level in the Bundestag acting as one party) is icy and more and more observers mention tzat both partners, after half a century, could go into divorce. The CSU would then independently candidate in other federal states than just Bavaria, too. And that could spell desaster for the CDU. It also means a fractioning amongst black socialists that the red socialists SPD and Die Linke/SED can massively benefit from when it comes to coalition building.

[Schroeder]

Two good readings for German readers. Or better: for anybody understanding German.

The first is a psychoanalysts' analysis of Merkel, which pretty much covers my own both private and my former semi-professional psychological view of her.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2016/01/24/psychoanalytiker-hans-joachim-maaz-angela-merkel-_n_9064278.html?utm_hp_ref=germany



That's how I see it as well. I never saw a strong leader in her. Her only achievement was to get rid of all competition over the years and making the CDU a one woman show. She's been unquestioned for too long and does not accept criticism anymore.:/\\!!

[kraznyi_oktjabr]

Waht comes to smugglers I don't see point in gun slinging unless there are payment troubles or some other issues. Immigrants share information very quickly and openly in social media. If this kind of stuff was really going on, in my opinion we would already have heard about it. It feels implausible that this kind of excellent "poor immigrants" story would have been ignored by news media.

[Onkel Neal]

Denmark is shaking down the immigrants. Man, can you imagine is Trump had suggested this? It would have exploded this thread :haha:

http://news.yahoo.com/denmarks-plan-deter-migrants-seize-valuables-135655255.html

[Betonov]

Not that I was sure that such things occured, but if an almost honest guy like me can think of reasons why shoving migrants on leaky boats at gunpoint would be an economicaly sound decision, some depraved mind down there would also

[tomfon]

Another thing is that we don't really know how the whole thing is played out on the Turkish shores. Yeah, we have watched on TV refugees arriving at the Greek islands, dead bodies of children lying on the beach, ordinary people trying to help and so on but what about the other side?

[Jimbuna]

It's a plan, not the worst plan out there, but it's timing is poor and it's just going to fuel the fires of xenophobia in Europe...as if they needed any fuel. :dead:

You could well be right but I simply fail to understand why adults are taking such chances with children. If they were escaping direct from a warzone yes but not the relative safety of Turkey (especially when you compare the two).

[Betonov]

You could well be right but I simply fail to understand why adults are taking such chances with children. If they were escaping direct from a warzone yes but not the relative safety of Turkey (especially when you compare the two).

I wouldn't be surprised if Sultan Erdogan the moronic is pushing them forward.

[Schroeder]

I wouldn't be surprised if Sultan Erdogan the moronic is pushing them forward.
After receiving our money to hold them back....:shifty:

[Jimbuna]

I wouldn't be surprised if Sultan Erdogan the moronic is pushing them forward.

After receiving our money to hold them back....:shifty:

Rgr that...on both counts.

[Betonov]

After receiving our money to hold them back....:shifty:

Let's just wire the money directly to daesh and stop feeding the midlle men

[mapuc]

Well, Denmark isn't the most powerful nation in the world which tends to shape western policy and attitudes. :O:

It's a plan, not the worst plan out there, but it's timing is poor and it's just going to fuel the fires of xenophobia in Europe...as if they needed any fuel. :dead:

True Denmark is definitely not a superpower.

I think you need little background to understand why this changes. Let me tell you about a Danish citizens who seek economical help by the authorities.

If this Danish person, let say he is between 30 and 40 years of age, are looking for cash assistance- He shall give the authorities axess the every bank account he has, what he have earned a.s.o a.s.o

If he has a fortune greater than the permitted 10 000 Dkr, he can not get help from the authorities-he must use the amount above these 10.000 Dkr first. (E.g he has in all 25000 Dkr-so he must use these 15000 Dkr for rent, food a.s.o before he can seek help again)

Until now, all refugees and immigrants been exempt from this. Although authorities were able to see that certain entries refugees and immigrants came with values that exceeded 10,000 Dkr =

Not in paper money, but in jewelry. The police/authorities will not take wedding rings or jewelry which has a sentimental value for the owner.

Markus

[Jimbuna]

Probably wrong but I can't imagine many of them having large amounts of surplus cash. Most are probably using lifelong savings simply buying a place on the boat/raft or whatever.

[Onkel Neal]

Yes, yes, all these things make sense and seem reasonable. My point was: if Trump had said this, there would have been howling and comparisons to the Third Reich. Am I wrong?:O:

[Dan D]

What goes around comes around. If Trump becomes US President I will be ok with that and will respect that decision. But until then, I am an alpha male, too. I can shout, too.

The Trump family has immigrated from Germany.

The Danish poposal is nuts imo.

[mapuc]

Latest news from Sweden. The authorities has estimated that about 80.000 refugees has to leave Sweden.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/28/sweden-to-expel-up-to-80000-rejected-asylum-seekers

In Finland the authorities expect about 20.000 has to leave the country.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/us-europe-migrants-finland-idUKKCN0V61Z1

Markus

[Skybird]

Latest news from Sweden. The authorities has estimated that about 80.000 refugees has to leave Sweden.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/28/sweden-to-expel-up-to-80000-rejected-asylum-seekers

In Finland the authorities expect about 20.000 has to leave the country.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/us-europe-migrants-finland-idUKKCN0V61Z1

Markus
Want to bet against me when I tell you that the vast majority of those 80,000 still will be in Sweden in one and in two years...?

Better think twice. ;) There are more entertaining ways to lose your money.

[mapuc]

Want to bet against me when I tell you that the vast majority of those 80,000 still will be in Sweden in one and in two years...?

Better think twice. ;) There are more entertaining ways to lose your money.

You are correct-They are going to-appeal again and again. Some of them have said to the Swedish press, that they will "go to Denmark" instead.

Denmark doesn't have a real deportation policy-

When a refugee is denied his application, the Danish authorities send this refugee a letter it says.
"Dear N.N the Danish immigration authorities have refused your application. We expect that you will be kind enough to even leave the country within the next 14 days"

[Skybird]

Easier. They will simply drop from the screen, and dissapear.

Which is easy, time-wise, since authorities are kind enough to give them a word of warning long time ahead.

Now talk with a crime analyst what this is supposed to mean for crime statistics, black labor, police work...

All the follow-up costs and damages that the big fans of mass migration like this usually do not calculate when they cheer and say: we pay them some job training and then our economy will only benefit and collect tax money form them.

I say something different, I say: Muahahahahahaha...!!!! You reap what you sow.

[Skybird]

In German: very plain-reasoned interview with Paul Collier on migration and how stupid and irrational the EU's and the German positions are, and that Schengen not only is dead, but de facto always was just a pointless propaganda symbol anyway.

http://www.welt.de/wirtschaft/article151603912/Ist-Merkel-schuld-an-Fluechtlingskrise-Wer-sonst.html?config=print

Who's the author (in English)?

http://users.ox.ac.uk/~econpco/

[STEED]

Nearly 40 percent of German voters think Chancellor Angela Merkel should quit over her liberal asylum policy after almost 1.1 million newcomers arrived last year, a poll showed Friday.

As the mood in Germany has shifted from a euphoric welcome for people fleeing war and persecution last September to growing doubts about the country's ability to accommodate and integrate the record influx, the popular Merkel has come under increasing pressure.

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/40-percent-germans-want-merkel-quit-over-refugees-095601784.html?nhp=1


:hmm2:

[Schroeder]

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/40-percent-germans-want-merkel-quit-over-refugees-095601784.html?nhp=1


:hmm2:
I doubt she cares....:/\\!!

[STEED]

I doubt she cares....:/\\!!

Would that be the same if it was a good 70% odd?

[Schroeder]

Would that be the same if it was a good 70% odd?
I don't understand anymore how she ticks. She seems to be completely disconnected from reality when it comes to that topic. We've been hearing for months now that she wants to achieve a European solution for the problem while all other EU nations have been showing her the middle finger all the time with no hint at changing that whatsoever. Yet she still repeats that at every opportunity time and again.:doh:
If all other nations say no and keep saying no then this most likely means "no" and there won't be a European solution. How difficult can that be to understand.:/\\!!

In the light of that I'm not sure if she even still cares what other people think and want. If her own party doesn't stop her (and that is unlikely as she has removed all opposition over the years) then I fear for the worst.:dead:

[Schroeder]

Give it another few months and it will be. This could very easily be the downfall of Tante Merkel if she isn't careful.
The problem is there is no one to replace her. Merkel has removed every more or less competent guy from the CDU who could become dangerous to her and the SPD has only a few pale dudes with about as much charisma as a white wall. Green and left party are part of the problem and not the solution. So who can be voted? The AFD (right wing populist party that got hijacked by neo Nazi like people a couple of months ago)? They could actually score double digits in the next state elections and perhaps on a federal level. But that alone isn't enough to get rid of Merkel and frankly I couldn't stand the thought of them running the show so they are no alternative for me. I think Merkel will stay not because she's good (I think she's been the worst for Germany since the Federal Republic of Germany came into existence) but just because all the other options are so weak that no one can want them either.:/\\!!:/\\!!

[STEED]

I don't understand anymore how she ticks. She seems to be completely disconnected from reality when it comes to that topic. We've been hearing for months now that she wants to achieve a European solution for the problem while all other EU nations have been showing her the middle finger all the time with no hint at changing that whatsoever. Yet she still repeats that at every opportunity time and again.:doh:
If all other nations say no and keep saying no then this most likely means "no" and there won't be a European solution. How difficult can that be to understand.:/\\!!

In the light of that I'm not sure if she even still cares what other people think and want. If her own party doesn't stop her (and that is unlikely as she has removed all opposition over the years) then I fear for the worst.:dead:

It seems to me she is blinkered and will not listen to others as she sets out on this personal great quest to show the world she is great and only she has the answer. :huh:

[Schroeder]

Although you make a valid point that since there is no effective opposition to the CDU, so the CDU doesn't really need to worry about losing to the SPD in any election so that removes the impetus to remove Merkel like there was in the 1989 Tory leadership election when polls indicated that Labour had overtaken the Conservative Party in popularity because of Thatchers poor popularity amongst the people.
It's even worse. The SPD isn't even trying to solve the problem and has even been blocking attempts to get stricter rules. They also won't support a coup against Merkel as their own popularity has plummeted to historic depths and they could only lose at the next election so they try to keep things as they are.:/\\!!


Still, someone in the CDU is guaranteed to be examining the possibility of using this crisis and Merkels reaction to it as a method of advancing their position within the party or moving their favoured pawn into a greater position of power. The languages may be different but politics is the same in any nation, be it a democracy, dictatorship or theocracy.The only heavy weights who openly oppose Merkel are the guys from the CSU which is the Bavarian counterpart of the CDU (they form one party in the federal government). I usually dislike them with a passion but right now I see them to be our only chance.:dead:

[Skybird]

From nothing comes nothing. Thats also true for our political standards and system, and the quality - or better: lack of - of political culture.

One thing really is good these times: the EUSSR's arrogant shine and glory falls apart. I see a good chance now that the centralist continental state vision will not survive these times, and instead sober, economic cooperation AND NOTHING ELSE BEYOND THIS PRAGMATISM will become the rule of the day - and the only point of focus. Wether it will survivie the slow-motion implosion of the paper money system, remaisn to be seen. The only way by which poltical elites can surive the fiscal desintagraiton procv ess, is by brute force and repression: establishing dictatorial forms of governmental control.

European nations and people (both plural!) will head for one of these two scenarios only. I hope for the first - but fear it will be the latter. You cannot violate the law of the market and hope you could forever get away with it.

Regarding Schengen, I never cared for it, it was a hobby prohect of the elites to püarty about it and enjoy gettign celebrated for it, but economically and regardign civil rights, it is close to meaningless, and always was. It is a collective hysterical hype to think that borders mean nothing and thus could and should not be there.

Police insiders know this since many years.

If you cross a border and have to show your passport and maybe have to wait a minute - whats the big deal about it? I still recall the inner German border controls on entrance and exit of the transit routes through the GDR when you travelled from Westgermany to Westberlin, or the other way around - so don't make me laugh!!

Or try to tell the Ameficans they should allow control-free border crossing onm entry from Europe! Compared to American controls of tourists today, the Eastgerman border procedures during Tansitverkehr or visiting the "Ostzone" - were children's stuff.

That you still can, freely, travel from one country to the next in europe - that is the important news. ;) And if you have to wait a short while at the border, and have to exchange some currency - what's so horribly terrible about that? There are more urgent worries in the world to be concerned about. Next time when visiting Holland: being asked in the train to show my passport or ID card, is the last thing I could feel upset about, really.

[Betonov]

When are the elections in the Land of the Deutsch ??

They'll need a thread of their own here.

[Jimbuna]

Will Merkel outfox them all....again?

[Skybird]

Upcoming elections in 3 of Germany's 16 federal states early March. Polls have CDU and SPD massively loosing shares, AfD growing clearly into the 2 digit range. But the plebs is a wavering bitch.

Polls some days ago said 9 of 10 Germans demand Merkel to reverse her course and close the borders. Another poll said only 45% of Germans still support her, while 40% demand her to resign immediately.

When it all began in autumn, 9 of 10 Germans or so were almost drunk of singing "Welcome, welcome." Times have changed. Two days ago a hand grenade was thrown into a migrant camp. It did not go off, but was brought to controlled explosion by the police, it still gets examined whether it had an active fuze mechanism that failed, or had none. It surely had the full weight of explosives.
i
The rate of policemen reporting ill and being on leave by doctor's orders, is on a record high since the founding of the federal republic. Also, I know from an insider personally, the rate of policemen quitting their job and turning their backs on the state, also is at a record high. They simply have enough of it, and quit. Many seem to go into private security. And get a better payment. All regular polcie units and service are doing massive overtime shifts and there is a general holiday ban, it seems.

But you can only run business in this grinding, eroding way for so long time, and not longer. To all the bad outcome, now also add the delayed longterm consequences of erosion of police moral and personnel levels.

[Nippelspanner]

I can't say if the following is true, or made up, but I stumbled over it and it worries me:
http://i.4cdn.org/vg/1454105995069.jpg

[Torplexed]

If that lower picture is anything to go by, Mecca is a tiny spot in the middle of a English classroom floor.

[Torplexed]

Austerity has hit hard over here. :yep:

When the Haj shows up it should bring in a few pounds. The queue through the door is gonna be nasty though.

[Schroeder]

Funny, Merkel now says that the refugees only have a temporary right to stay in Germany and have to return once the war in Syria is over....I believe it when I see them leave...It's the first time I've heard her (or any top politician for that) say something like that. Until now we've been talking about spending billions to build houses, educate them for our job market and integrate them into society.... Most of that would not be necessary if they can only stay a couple of years anyway.:doh:
Guess the pressure finally took it's toll on her or she's just trying to calm everyone down even though I don't see the vast majority leaving even if the war would be over in half a year.
http://www.businessinsider.com/merkel-refugees-must-return-home-once-war-over-2016-1?op=1&IR=T

[mapuc]

(this should be the correct thread)

And it seems like the ordinary citizens in Sweden are prevented in knowing the truth about refugees and immigrants behavior-If they want to know they have to use "hide my ip-locations" stuff.


http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/01/29/daily-mail-articles-blocked-in-sweden-over-migrant-stabbing-court-case/


Or read Swedish news paper located outside Sweden.


Markus

[Nippelspanner]

^
This is getting out of hand.
More and more reports about censorship - not only in Sweden, all over Europe - are heard and while I haven't checked them case by case, what I have seen or heard so far is gut-wrenching.
Now, imagine we wouldn't have the internet where boundaries don't exist - if you take the necessary steps - we might be completely left in the dark and would all believe the "It's all dandy!" BS you hear.

Recently I've seen a German TV show, directed mostly at students/young people. The host, a young woman, lived with refugees in a house or whatever for a week or two, accompanying(spell?) one of them, a young black guy from some African country. They talked about how many friends he has, how he likes to play football and what a good student he is...

In the end, she said, in the most naive way "When I look at you, I don't even know why the German people are afraid of!"
...
Really now sunshine? You pick the best possible example of all refugees and then act as if that is the norm? :/\\!!
Meanwhile in real life, we can see what kind of people MOST 'refugees' seem to be. :dead:

Long story short: It is more than obvious how most European media, be it newspapers, Television and even social networks (by deleting "hate speech") desperately try to make sure that we all only see what we are supposed to see and I feel like a fool for being so naive as to believe "this would never happen again".

Think twice, I guess.

[Nippelspanner]

Denying that there is a bad though is definitely not a solution. :nope:Which goes both ways, of course. People who only think in extremes are unreasonable (or... Sith-Lords).
However, for me it doesn't even matter who the majority is (as in 51% or more?).
For me it is way below that.
It is like so many people deliver the eternal "Not all muslims are radicals!" catchphrase in defense of the Religion of Peace(™), while ~15-25% (!) are "dedicated to the destruction of the western civilization", according to western intelligence agencies (who of course, are all lying and following evil and racist agendas... :shifty:)
A tad too much, don't you think?
If it would be around 1-3%, Jesus... who cares, loonies are everywhere in every form - but maybe up to 25%? Errrr... :doh:

Same with refugees, so "majority" really doesn't matter for me.

[mapuc]

I don't know if you have heard of this Riot that happened last night in Stockholm

Where group of Swedish men mostly young attacked refugees.

Before they did that they shared flyers out to people in and around the main station (train)

Here is what was written on this flyer(have used google translate



it's enough now!

The fact that Sweden is not as it once was can hardly have escaped anyone's attention at the moment, and in principle, so we are forced every day to wake up to even more murders, robberies, rapes and other abuses.

We have been forced to live through countless cases of this type of crime where perpetrators more or less escape punishment by postulating younger than 15 years.

Around the country it flows in with reports that police no longer powers to prevent and investigate the high crime affecting the Swedish people. In some cases, such as the murder of the young woman who worked at an asylum center for the so-called "lone future refugee" in Molndal, it has now gone so far that the National Commissioner of Police choose to express more sympathy for the perpetrator than the victim

The kind of disrespectful behavior has become so ingrained in our profligate politicians, our relax judiciary and our mendacious media that no longer surprise us, but we shy away from accepting the repeated frequent attacks on Swedish women, and we shy away from accepting terrorisation of our once safe communities

When our political leadership and our police show greater sympathy for the criminals than the victims, then there is no longer any excuse for letting it happen without protest. When the Swedish streets are no longer safe to move on to ordinary people, then it is our DUTY to act on the problems.

Today, we have collected 200 Swedish men to mark against the North African "street kids" are rampant in the area around the capital's central station. Police have provided ample evidence that they are powerless to stop their behavior, and we therefore see no other way than to give them the punishment they deserve

The judiciary has surrendered and thus the social contract is broken. Therefore, it is now every Swedish man's duty to defend our general public area on the imported crime.

We who gather today is not your politicians, your reporter or your police. However, we are your father, your brother, your husband, your colleague, your friend and your neighbor. Swedish men and women deserve security in their everyday lives and we encourage all others who see the problems, to follow in our footsteps - both in Stockholm and other places around the country. For a better future together


It comes as no big surprise for me. It was only a matter of time and I can't say if this is one-time action or if it will raise in strength and expanded to other cities.

Markus

[Nippelspanner]

I can't say if this is one-time action or if it will raise in strength and expanded to other cities.

Markus
Can't say I know the answer but I do know that vigilantism is the wrong way and they will be severely punished. The law doesn't like vigilants - ask Batman. ;)

The letter was a good call, true or not, but this militia-mob vigilantism is the worst thing to do and will only deliver lots of fuel for those who still wear their little love-glasses of intercultural friendship. :/\\!!

[Nippelspanner]

Well, like you say in the first line, people who think in extremes are unreasonable, and thus the saying 'Not all muslims are radicals' is reasonable since it is not thinking in extremes or absolutes.

I must admit, 400 million radicals though? Good thing we've got the Russians in this war I guess. :dead:
Come on, the old phrase "not all muslims" has nothing to do with reason, but with shutting your eyes and ears while yelling "lalala i can't hear your facts, I must be Gutmensch!".

Also, you seem to have missed my point?
"Not all..." doesn't matter when 15-25% ARE.

[Betonov]

Can't say I know the answer but I do know that vigilantism is the wrong way and they will be severely punished. The law doesn't like vigilants - ask Batman. ;)

The letter was a good call, true or not, but this militia-mob vigilantism is the worst thing to do and will only deliver lots of fuel for those who still wear their little love-glasses of intercultural friendship. :/\\!!

While I would cheer on and maybe supply some vigilante groups that would do their homework about who's face they'll kick to the curve so only the bad guys get thrashed, I am too un-naive not to know that such groups will target those that will give the least resistance, like poor Ahmed selling kebab at the corner while hidding from some more organised groups.

Batman was good becasue he did background checks on who's behind to kick.
''nationalists'' will only focus on weak targets.

[mapuc]

Can't say I know the answer but I do know that vigilantism is the wrong way and they will be severely punished. The law doesn't like vigilants - ask Batman. ;)

The letter was a good call, true or not, but this militia-mob vigilantism is the worst thing to do and will only deliver lots of fuel for those who still wear their little love-glasses of intercultural friendship. :/\\!!

As a person who have lived in Sweden for about 35 years I know how a person who is critics to the official refugee politics is treated and how they treat a person who openly say he or she support the Sweden Democrats.

Sweden is democratic dictator ship when it comes to that.

Markus

[Schroeder]

Come on, the old phrase "not all muslims" has nothing to do with reason, but with shutting your eyes and ears while yelling "lalala i can't hear your facts, I must be Gutmensch!".

Also, you seem to have missed my point?
"Not all..." doesn't matter when 15-25% ARE.
I found it really funny that a statistic was published a week or so ago which confirmed that 40% of all northern African immigrants become criminals in Germany. 40%!!! That's almost every second guy.
I'm certain that would have been kept a secret before Cologne happened and everybody pointing out the high crime rate among those people would have been labeled a Neo Nazi.:/\\!!

@Betonov

And that's exactly the problem. Those idiots just want top beat somebody up and they aren't exactly picky about who that is. The next best guy who looks foreign is usually the target.:/\\!!

[Skybird]

Ochlocracy. The dictatorship of the plebs. The holy grail of majority votes. :nope:

When I walk on the streets and get assaulted by three men, and two hold me and the third picks my wallet with my money, and my watch and my papers, what do you think I will report to the police (if I care to do so)? That there was a majority vote that decided 3:1 to expropriate me and have my money donated for the demand of the majority, and since I am a "good democrat" I decided to comply after I lost the vote - or will I rather report a crime and that I became the victim of a street assault conducted by three attacking dirtbags?

Democracy originally was a feudal system in which the voting ones had to qualify for being allowed to cast a vote by contributing at least as much to community interests as they benefitted. The later European feudal elite caste of society they were. 5-15% of the overall population of an ancient Greek polis, or a later European kingdom.

Not popular to remind of this, I know. But true. Ancient Greece, pre-Aristotelian era. What is called democracy today, in reality is what for the ancient "inventors" of democracy, the Greeks, was tyranny.

Point of the story: it is usually a very bad idea toi have every Peter and every Paul being allowed to vote if they do not have more at risk that is their own than they get in return from the community. Becasue then you have a pleb who always will claim the right of the majority to assault those who have more than the others, and plunder them. This is what today is called democracy or "social" market economy" - in princple the law of the strongest with a big lobby of profiteers.

[mapuc]

A few stories from the time when I lived in Sweden

This is from the end of the middle of the 90s

Have started on a new training course at lunch I was reading a news paper. Said something like,

This crime can only have been done by people from outside Sweden. When I had said that, the others attacked me verbally and asked me if I was a racist or a Nazis if I put my vote on Sweden democrats.

Some hours later it was all forgotten.

Now we jump some month ahead.

I had become very good friends with one of them. One day I was visiting him. Suddenly, he said something that got me thinking of.

Sweden can not accept so many refugees / immigrants and many of them are just trying to live as a parasite on our welfare system.

officially the Swedis people approve the Swedish asylum policies

unofficial they hate it-they dare not say so openly -At least not most of them.

Today or in the past few years, there seems to be a change in this