Europe's migrant problem

[Rockstar]

Fixed, and yeah, about right.


lol. Im sure 'Europe' would love to take credit for the great humanitarian aid and tolerance given to the mass of refugees entering Germany.


FLASH it has been reported by the daily fail Germany has closed its borders. Here's the chance for the rest of Europe to step up to the plate. Maybe 'Europe' could take in a couple of hundred thousand head. <crickets>

[Catfish]

Bavaria has closed its borders, but since it is Bavaria bordering Austria it is as if Germany would have closed its borders.

It has done so for organistaion problems though, after all there were 46,000 immigrants arriving in Munich the day before the weekend, so they just did not have enough shelters, and lots of logistic problems. And winter's coming.

Closing the border cannot be the solution though. Maybe we should send some of the immigrants to the US ? After all, they are not completely innocent when it comes to the situation in the Middle east.
Yes i know, the US surely did not want the situation as it is there, but you know "the road to hell is plastered with good intentions".

So..
The root of the problem lies in the Middle East?
The root of the problem lies in the West, because we live on their oil, and our "influence" created the situation?

Anyway we will not find a solution for anything, before the ME problems are not somehow solved.
Europe can help to solve problems, but it did not create those problems, at least not alone.
And, does England belong to Europe politically, or not?
It does, but it does not want to? :hmmm:

[CCIP]

There's some voices in the Canadian military establishment, including the former chief of defense staff Hillier, suggesting that Canada could step up and bring as many as many as 50,000 by the end of the year, with military logistics being used for the purpose. I'd say we go for it - far better and more Canadian use for our military than what they've been up to lately.

[Skybird]

It has been stated by professional helpers working in the organised structure of aid organisations dealing with the influx, that registration and controls so far revealed that

- at least 20% of the "refugees" are being Maroccan or Algerian, coming from the socalled Levante,

- around 25-30% of the "refugees" are coming from Albania, Kosovo (the EU's Sim-City-kind of private hobby), and Bosnia Herzegovina.

The public debate in Germany less and lesser discriminates between the terms "migrant", and "refugee", however. Which is a declaration of moral and and intellectual bancrupcty. It totally destroys the meaning of the legal good named "asylum".

Merkel has gone crashdiving. The closing of the border and the state of things over here clearly indicate how dramatically she has misjudged simply everything related to this crisis: Germany, Europe, the EU - just everything.

"Hundreds of thousands" of Lebanese are reported to prepare for their leaving towards Germany, we learnt yesterday.

It'S autumn. When you look at meadows and free areals in nature, soon you can see migratory birds slowly preparing for their trip to the south. Clap your hands, or see just one bird lifting off - and the rest of the huge swarms knows no rest and no halt anymore and takes off immediately in one big rush.

You cannot take back that clap of your hands.

Just that this Völkerwanderung is from South to North.

Meanwhile, their Muslim brothers and sisters care for what really matters: the saudis have again build a tent city at Mekka, 20 square kilometers in size. High tehc tents with teflon coating and luxurious air conditioning.

Syria may suck, but the cult for stone must live on! Even better if the infidels get weakened and must pay for it.

[Rockstar]

Bavaria has closed its borders, but since it is Bavaria bordering Austria it is as if Germany would have closed its borders.

It has done so for organistaion problems though, after all there were 46,000 immigrants arriving in Munich the day before the weekend, so they just did not have enough shelters, and lots of logistic problems. And winter's coming.

Closing the border cannot be the solution though. Maybe we should send some of the immigrants to the US ? After all, they are not completely innocent when it comes to the situation in the Middle east.
Yes i know, the US surely did not want the situation as it is there, but you know "the road to hell is plastered with good intentions".

So..
The root of the problem lies in the Middle East?
The root of the problem lies in the West, because we live on their oil, and our "influence" created the situation?

Anyway we will not find a solution for anything, before the ME problems are not somehow solved.
Europe can help to solve problems, but it did not create those problems, at least not alone.
And, does England belong to Europe politically, or not?
It does, but it does not want to? :hmmm:

I was casually looking up U.S. immigration statistics. I could find details about many peoples but not any from the middle east. Though there was a group called 'other' and that was about 30,000,000.

But yes we have plenty of room and choice of locations, climates and altitudes., bring'em on. But they process IAW SOP.

[Aktungbby]

So after all the hoopala this topic has generated. It basically boils down to war sucks and as long as its not my country taking in the massive flood of asylum seekers. The host nation just needs to stop being such paranoid xenophobes, deal with it and stop complaining.

about right?
PSSSST ! Xenophobe: "one unduly fearful of what is foreign and especially of people of foreign origin" Thus paranoid is redundant:know: :O:
situation in Syria and Iraq have promulgated the Islamic Volksmarch into Europe. Half of the refugees are SyrianJust that this Völkerwanderung is from South to North.
Damn! I left out the umlaut! but we're thinking alke here!:03:

[August]

...a known paper hanger (what exactly does that mean anyway, heard it plenty of times but never actually have known)

A person who installs wall paper. :salute:

[Alex]

European televisions are suffering from an awesome and relentless propaganda campaign led by government media, great media entities, and I bet anyone living in the european union can see political leading personalities preaching for a massive and global commitment to ensure safe migratory flows.

Naturally, and of course, this is not philanthropy. If people living in Europe needed to engage in philanthropy activities, well that would be good... But we do NOT need to care about migrants ! :o

Speaking about the country I live in, we already have masses living in great difficulties - homeless people, but I should mention first and foremost those millions of unemployed people, those millions of students just leaving the educational system without a job, as well as redundant workers who can't access the labour market any more, not to mention pensioners having an unstable job, etc., etc.

So we honestly have our share of misery in the country to arouse empathy and commiseration from the elites. :yeah:

However, it is obvious the education of children is not regarded as a major issue :-? - and this is certainly the case in many other countries as well - and yet, everyday everyone can notice the collapse of literacy rate in France, that is going to produce people who can't enter the production apparatus, resulting in precariousness of life, unemployment, poverty. Those people are not entitled to the empathy coming from the oligarchy right now or even before.

So, that sudden surge of media is not fortuitous, and it responds to a very precise agenda - keep that in mind. Also, very tactfully, media transfer that question from the political, geopolitical and economical points of view, to the moral one.
You don't get to hear about what's the root cause of this crisis, no one addresses accountability for that crisis, nor will you hear about social and economical consequences of that migratory invasion, nor about consequences on already existing migratory flows. No mention is made of the entire context in which this event occurs. http://oi58.tinypic.com/2emkklf.jpg
The focus is put on the moral issue http://oi61.tinypic.com/v44i9g.jpg - taken out of context, an ethereal issue - leaving only the possibility for a "yes" or "no" answer, making you feel like you'll be considered as the devil if you answer "no". :stare:

The question asked to those who live in the european union is simple, and formulated as follows : do you accept to let poor people die at the borders of the european community ?
Put that way, obviously the problem makes people feel like they have a gun to their heads, and this kind of political media coverage is done purposely (http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/804867hypn.gif).
So let's put aside that moralized media coverage psychologised to the extreme, and rather focus on the true origins of the problem, and more specifically what is at stake here.

First and foremost, we can see those who created conflicts related to that problem (syrian and libyan conflicts, destabilization of Egypt) supported Islamists actively (the Muslim Brotherhood was supported by Qatar in Egypt, and Qatar is involved with the french government and others, including the english and american ones :yep:).
Destabilization of Tunisia, destruction of Libya, destruction of Syria, here again with Al Qaida's help. Not only did the french minister for foreign affairs called for the physical destruction of Bashar Al-Assad, but he also mentioned on the al-Nosra front (a militia following Al-Qaida's principles) that they do, I quote : "a good job in the area". That was many months ago. That just shows the absolute cynicism of those who rule these days.
They supported political islamism - be it jihadist or only electioneering like in Egypt - targeting economical and geopolitical benefits.

And we see that intellectual and moral cheat : pyromaniac fire fighters dressed as judges to draw up the bill of indictment against the European population that got no role in these wars. The french minister for foreign affairs drew up the bill of indictment against Hungary - that never participated in any war of aggression against Libya or against Syria - saying it's unacceptable that Hungary does its best to control the great tidal wave of migrants, and so respects the legal process - yet Hungary is indeed expected to do that, since it needs to secure part of the external border of the Schengen area as it shares a border with Serbia.

Fundamentally, these days, the german approach shows the european union's architecture as we know it is in a headlong rush. Why does Germany seems to open its arms to that massive islamic immigration ? Of course, this is no philanthropy. People supporting wars actively - be it in the Middle-East, or even in Ukraine - are not the type of people paying much attention to the human cost of operations they conduct. Let it not be said that the primary objective of german employers is to be the exemplary student in terms of international philanthropy. Of course, it's all about immediate financial interests. This is a short term vision, because Germany, just like other European countries, experiences an extremely important demographic crisis. And this is a good short-term way to claim to be able to fill the gaps at the bottom of the earning scale - at least that's what they think.
But more fundamentally, the german reaction planning to impose - with the help of France - that muslim immigration in countries from Eastern Europe (Hungary, Slovakia, Bulgaria, Poland, Baltic countries, and others) in the name of quotas decided by Brussels, is based on a very simple idea : half of the german gross domestic product gets exported. Out of that part of the german GDP, one quarter is destined for the european union. So it is just impossible for Germany to expect its industrial production apparatus - and its income - to be maintained if the Free Trade Area collapses. As simple as that. :hmm2:

The issue of massive immigration as it is these days - that is a consequence of geopolitical activities from the united states of America and their vassals from Western Europe :) - has an immediate consequence on the Balkans, Eastern Europe, and the Free Trade Area, including Germany. And Germany, in order to save the Free Trade Area, has no other choice than to force countries from Eastern Europe to accept that immigration, as the natural reflex of countries threatened by that immigration is to resort to the exit from the Schengen area (that is indeed designed to let peoples living in the european union be able to move around their respective countries).

But what we are witnessing now is the pure and simple absence of will to repel the invasion :doh:, whether in Greece or anywhere else. This is a collective resignation, and in fact every country lets his neighbour take care of the flow of migrants.

However, Hungarians, Slovakians, Poles that gained independence from the USSR tutelage and chose to defend their own culture and their freedom, certainly do not want to succumb to the influence of a system using coercion to maintain the german production equipment :smug:. The german blackmail - as well as the french one - consisting in saying things like "become a Muslim, become an African so that we can maintain our industry and our finance system", countries like Hungary are not going to accept that, nor Slovakia, nor any of the Eastern countries. They're not going to accept to abdicate their national character, their identity, so that benefits of german and french big employers can be kept afloat. That is impossible.

Therefore, the question of the €uro, and the question of the Free Trade Area the way it is constituted these days, are fundamentally threatened by that massive immigration jumping into the european union.
Obviously, the smart position of Germany should have been to repel massive immigration, whatever the means used, including the military force. Yet those countries from Western Europe, being culturally destroyed, and having acceded to an anti-culture :hmm2: consisting in cultural marxism, anti-racism, internationalism, as well as that simple idea that Europe is an open area where anyone can come and settle anywhere, no matter the religion, skin colour, etc. , disregarding History, is an anti-historic vision that countries from Eastern and Central Europe do not share. Those countries are aware of what they are, they know where they come from, they know what it costed them to maintain themselves as countries and peoples, and those nationalities are not going to dismiss themselves to please oligarchs and bourgeoisies from Paris, Berlin, Munich, or Frankfurt for example, not to mention London. That is an impossibility, one needs to fully understand that. :ping:

And behind that... There is the NATO question.
If the european union collapses economically and politically (in particular through the return of national borders in many countries), the NATO implosion is going to start. And Russia can see that. That country most probably intends to dismantle that structure threatening its borders. So a lot is at stake. :hmm2:

Let's speak about an existential issue, that was indeed the first problem of the european union on the day it was created. In all likelihood, no European nation is against the european union if it ever had been really European. Yet the word "European" is one too many in "european union". It's never been an European union in the cultural, civilizational, racial, and spiritual senses of the word. It's an artificial construction, getting more and more jacobin, authoritarian, centralistic, and rootless, a construction that got communist or socialist principles, so to speak, as funding principles. Principles like the one pretending that to be European, race and culture don't matter. That is an historical impossibility :yep:. And even in affected countries of Western Europe, populations rise up more and more against that derealized vision from elites governing the european union and governments from its member states.

May be some headlong rush from authorities from Western Europe, people who adhere to the atlanticist vision, people supporting employers from Western Europe (radically german)... And we may well be driving towards the collapse of that structure in the end, exactly like the USSR some time ago. And basically, the response from the elite/oligarchy can be nothing but coercive (that explains tougher security laws, and the threatening rhetoric toward populations, especially when it comes to immigration). Taking in consideration our politics these days (french president, prime ministers from countries concerned), there's way to feel like people are considered as enemies - see how you're talked to by authorities, what we handle in here sounds like a constant accusation of the french population that is kind of monitored... Looks very much like it's not going to lead to something good...

Naturally, that situation calls for a resistance. Everyday one can take notice of the divorce between populations - abandoned by their political leaders - and the great solidarity between the whole state apparatus and subsidised associations and government media constantly favouring foreigners.
It's just fascinating to see how much authorities and their pseudo-representatives loath their own population, how much they have absolutely no empathy for their own people, obviously shown through that great support they bring to foreigners they know nothing about, and who're going to threaten ourselves very soon, since we're facing a demographic transformation absolutely considerable.

[mapuc]

It only takes a few

Some of my FB-friends say there ain't no such thing as moderate Muslims

I disagree. I do know there are a few radical Muslim among them, that doesn't make every one radical

But it only takes a few of these to keep the other 95-98 % in a short line and our own left wings are protecting these Islams, by down-talking ordinary people who are saying this.

It does happen on occasion some newspaper in Denmark or Sweden have some article about some group of these Islams walking around in the neighborhood and controlling other Muslims, see if they are living as Muhammad told them.

Oh it does happen some brave Muslim goes against them. From that day on, they live under content protection. From their own religion, they receive death threat, from the right wing people in the country where they live-an accusation that they are lying and from left wing they get a "Now-come-on- you are overdoing it"

Markus

[mapuc]

^ On my lastest post ?

Markus

[_dgn_]

About the future of Europe (and the destruction of its civilization), please read Jean Raspail (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Raspail)'s great novel, named The Camp of the Saints (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Camp_of_the_Saints) !

Yesterday (in 1973, when published), it was only considered as an impossible nightmare. Today, it's becoming practically a reality ...

Cheers.

[Onkel Neal]

I also don't believe in any grand Islamic conspiracy to overthrow Europe, or that every refugee is a suicide bomber waiting to explode, or other such rubbish.

I'm sure most of the migrants are wonderful people. They are leaving a war zone, which says they are not fighting the war. There's no Islamic conspiracy, any more than the Pilgrims were conspiring to eradicate the native American population.

[Aktungbby]

There's no Islamic conspiracy, any more than the Pilgrims were conspiring to eradicate the native American population.
WOOPS!:subsim: propaganda-patrol here: A Very bad example there:D Maybe once then... http://www.manataka.org/page269.html (http://www.manataka.org/page269.html) " Cheered by their "victory", the brave colonists and their Indian allies attacked village after village. Women and children over 14 were sold into slavery while the rest were murdered. Boats loaded with a many as 500 slaves regularly left the ports of New England. Bounties were paid for Indian scalps to encourage as many deaths as possible.
Following an especially successful raid against the Pequot in what is now Stamford, Connecticut, the churches announced a second day of "thanksgiving" to celebrate victory over the heathen savages. During the feasting, the hacked off heads of Natives were kicked through the streets like soccer balls. Even the friendly Wampanoag did not escape the madness. Their chief was beheaded, and his head impaled on a pole in Plymouth, Massachusetts -- where it remained on display for 24 years."

[Rockstar]

... or anymore than American immigrants conspired to annex Texas. :D

[Rockstar]

Im sure India never believed they would be duped into slavery and ruled over by a tiny group of islanders either.

[Skybird]

I'm sure most of the migrants are wonderful people. They are leaving a war zone, which says they are not fighting the war.
Note the numbers I mentioned above. It seems that not even a majority is "fleeing a warzone" at all. Since when are Marocco, Algeria again, Kosovo, Alabania, Bosnia Herzegovina been fought in?

"War refugee" and "migrant" are two totally different things. And the right for asking for asylum (that is what the right is about: to ask for asylum, not automatically being given asylum just because you demand it) refers only to the first, not to the latter.

I saw two facilities in and around my hometown in the past three weeks. I asked around a bit. In both facilities (there are more in and around this city), Syrians and Afghans and Iraqis are forming NOT the majority, it seems. the one holds a very mixed group of different people from all across Africa, the Balkans and the ME, the other holds predominantly people from the Balkan and the Palestinian Arab region, they said. Most people who came in recent weeks, were migrants from safe places - not war refugees. Syrians and Iraquis there were, too. But in no way they form a majority in these two facilities at least.

But as the numbers said that i gave earlier, that come from professional people being embedded in the organsiation of aiding and helping in the current events and knowing the internal official numbers from the registraiton and control processes being conducted: at least 20% of the newcomers are Maroccan and Algerian, and at least one third is coming from the Muslims parts of the Balkans: Albania, Kosovo, Bosnia Herzegovina.

These are not refugees fleeing from war. These are migrants wanting more wealth.

Wealth migration is not covered by the right for asylum.

---
A short anecdote: after Obama indicated to Iran that the US is willing to arrange itself with a nuclear armed Iran in the forseeable future, the German "economy minister" Siegmar Gabriel immediately travelled to Teheran to improve the climate between both governments for better German deals with Teheran in the future (that will help Teheran to close the nuclear technology gaps more easily and smoothly). Well, beside Saudi Arabia, private Maroccan individuals and organizations, and Quatar, Iran is one of the three or four biggest financiers, exporters, supporters and organisers of global Muslim terrorism, and thus it is beside Sauid Arabia and Quatar and the Sunni anger in Iraq the main agent behind the violence and horror the Syrians and Kurds and many others currently have to face in over one half of the ME's region. How clever is it to support regimes and actors that are the main reason behind the region drowning in war and terror and doing deals with them, while at the same time needing to take in the victims of this violl,ence in numbers that bring our own social and econimic infrastructure to its knees and damage ourselves?

Short-sightedness, hypocrisy, and cynical egoism of political actors at its best.

The Rus sian form a huge and potent airbase in Syria. Any future Western military action in Syria will need to take into account military confrontation with the Russians themselves - not good. Russia supports Assad, Assad further gets supported by Hezbollah and Iran. But all three fight against the IS, which makes the Russian engagement an engagement against the IS as well. The West was too indifferent for too long, and now has no more options left. It has no potent proxy that could fight the IS, it doe snot want to jpoin the axis of evil Damaskus-Moscow-Teheran, and it does not want to get engaged on the ground itself (which is very wise). It has no potent ally to fight against IS, all American ambitions to arrange such alliances, have failed spectacularly. French and British airstrikes - well, you could as well let them be, they make no real difference at all. Turkish sultan Erdoghan has lost his majority in last elections due to the Kurds' gains, so he stages a new war with the Kurds - which are enemies of the IS - to rally Turkish support for himself and against the Kurds - and then calls new elections, regainign his majority at the loss of the Kurdish party. Turkey is more busy with bombing the PKK, than the IS, because Turkey is rivalling Syria for dominace in the region - and the IS is fighting against Turkey's rival, Assad. That makes the IS a natural ally of Erdoghan, and his past years' actions and support for the IS shows that. Now that the IS at times has turned against the hand that fed him, he still has not fully understood the lesson to be learned from that: you cannot "tame" and control the IS.

Its all insanity, all hope for reason is lost.

There are three kinds of walls and fences. The first kind is like the Berlin wall, it gets build to keep people inside that do not want to stay inside. The next one is a wall or fence that gets build to keep foreign powers out, like the fence between Spain and Africa, which works quite well. And the third one is the kind of fence and wall that Israel build or that guards the DMZ in Korea: to keep two sides separate that cannot peacefully live together. It also works, the numbers of terror attacks on the ground from Palestinian Arabs against Israeli has dropped dramatically, the Korean seize fire holds since half a century, more or less.

Being in total lack of both morally integer and practically realistic options for intervention, I suggest to build a big big wall around the ME war regions and its active actors, and the mass migration from south to North in general, and then closely guard and control it to make certain that nobody crawls over it or digs a tunnel underneath. The ME is collpasing, and it will not stop at where things are now. We need to run a strict containment protocol for the essential purpose of just proptecting ourselves. Control - has been lost long time ago. We need containment now, and isolation protocols - not draydreaming about "control". It's all lost. It'S too late. And the mistakes leaidng to this might have been maintained in past years - but they started already over half a century ago. Today'S present - is history's result.

[Armistead]

Great article by Sam Harris why Islam is really not moderate.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/09/15/we-need-to-talk-about-islam-s-jihad-problem.html?via=desktop&source=twitter

[Rockstar]

Interviews for asylum requests will be conducted by 'the old man from Scene 24!'

http://movie-dude.co.uk/Terry%20Gilliam%20%20Monty%20Python%20and%20the%20 Holy%20Grail%20(1974)%201.jpg"Stop! Who would cross the Bridge of Death must answer me these questions three, 'ere the other side he see."

[Betonov]

What will be the questions ??
Europe related topics, they probably know more than the natives.

[Rockstar]

You might be thinking of citizenship questions. Over here asylum requests are normally granted to a person who has been persecuted or suffered because of his or her race, religion, nationality, membership in a particular social group and or political opinion. So questions by the AO will revolve around those.

To the surprise of many seeking asylum. The desire for better living conditions, citizenship, opportunity, jobs, medical care, housing, family ties, child care, education, among others are not on the list concerns when considering Asylum requests

[Rockstar]

Well, we had a flag. :O:


We flew the banner of Manifest Destiny. :haha:

[mapuc]

We have all our own standpoint on this and I try to respect another persons view

There however some person on my friend list I have blocked, the things they have written, well that's to much for me.

Some days ago in every Danish newspaper, we could see a picture of an elder man standing on a bride(you could see him having his fingers around a metal-forgot the word) and the text said so) spitting on the refugees who was walking under the bridge

Such type of behavior is disgusting.

Markus

[Rockstar]

Trivia: Did you know if the worlds population of 7 Billion lived in a city as dense as London. We would all fit in Texas, Louisiana, Arkansas and Oklahoma.

[August]

Trivia: Did you know if the worlds population of 7 Billion lived in a city as dense as London. We would all fit in Texas, Louisiana, Arkansas and Oklahoma.

But not for very long... :)

[Bubblehead1980]

We have all our own standpoint on this and I try to respect another persons view

There however some person on my friend list I have blocked, the things they have written, well that's to much for me.

Some days ago in every Danish newspaper, we could see a picture of an elder man standing on a bride(you could see him having his fingers around a metal-forgot the word) and the text said so) spitting on the refugees who was walking under the bridge

Such type of behavior is disgusting.

Markus

They deserved it.

[Catfish]

.... we could see a picture of an elder man standing on a bride ... Such type of behavior is disgusting.

I guess this is really awkward :hmmm:

Sorry, i just could not resist :O:

[XabbaRus]

Bubblehead, you think they deserve to be spat on? Really?

[Betonov]

We have a situation where the migrants are avoiding Slovenia and those that were caught crossing the border here refused to ask for asylum. And we are setting up refugee centers to take them while the war lasts. They wanted to go to Germany.

I don't like this. This is not a war refugee, this is an economic migrant.


They deserved it.

Did anyone ever tell you you're like oil ???
Crude, unrefined and the world could do without.

[Onkel Neal]

Hey! Take that back, we need oil :D

[Schroeder]

We have a situation where the migrants are avoiding Slovenia and those that were caught crossing the border here refused to ask for asylum. And we are setting up refugee centers to take them while the war lasts. They wanted to go to Germany.

We have that all the time. People don't want to stay in other countries but come to Germany or Sweden. We even had "refugees" stopping a train to Berlin they were on with the emergency brake to get out and make their way towards Sweden as they didn't want to stay in Germany.


Did anyone ever tell you you're like oil ???
Crude, unrefined and the world could do without.
Do you still read the BS he writes? I put him on my ignore list.

[u crank]

They deserved it.

Man that's classy. You should be proud.

[Betonov]

Do you still read the BS he writes? I put him on my ignore list.

It's like driving past a car wreck.

[Bubblehead1980]

Bubblehead, you think they deserve to be spat on? Really?



Not really, but no problem with it happening.I would not do it personally, but then again they are not (currently anyway ) invading my country by the tens of thousands.

I feel bad for these people but at same time in this round of clash of civilizations with the islamic world, we are slowly losing, not because they are stronger, more intelligent but because our leaders and many of our people are naive, inept, and ignorant of history.The two worlds just do not mix.Sure, there are good muslims but this is a war, somewhat of a cold war now but it is likely to get hot one day, especially with us basically giving Iran financing , wink and a nod to get nuclear weapons:/\\!! In war, things have to be made black and white, win and then sort it out and allowing tends of thousands of people who can contribute nothing into our already strained and overpopulated countries in Europe and the US, is just foolish.

There is the immediate threat of jihad, economic strain etc but lets think about the demographic shifts.Do not dare call me a racist or bigot because this is not racism, it's just reality.Allow many more to come here, refuse to assimilate, they breed, children grow up.Eventually your nations history, traditions, foundation are threatened by people who have no concept, because they are just different.I know this is not PC and true, not ALL are like this, but in this clash, must err on the side of caution. Look at what has already happened in France, UK etc with all the immigration from the middle east etc. No go zones? Look at Dearborn, MI in the US.

Tough pill for the multicultural types to swallow, but it does not, all it has done is harm actual loyal citizens of the US, France, UK etc People are finally realizing and thus the rise of backlash.No, it's not the same as the 30's with the jews, completely different.

All that aside, not upset some muslim was spat on.I would not do it, better ways but then again(as said), I am not in the man's shoes, watching these people help in the muslim conquest of europe while lemmings wave and cheer them in.

[Bubblehead1980]

We have a situation where the migrants are avoiding Slovenia and those that were caught crossing the border here refused to ask for asylum. And we are setting up refugee centers to take them while the war lasts. They wanted to go to Germany.

I don't like this. This is not a war refugee, this is an economic migrant.




Did anyone ever tell you you're like oil ???
Crude, unrefined and the world could do without.

No, I do not "sugar coat" things. Tell the truth, even if it is not comfortable."Political correctness" is the enemy of truth..

[Betonov]

No, I do not "sugar coat" things. Tell the truth, even if it is not comfortable."Political correctness" is the enemy of truth..

No, I, as me, do not sugar coat things. I have said that we should make camps for the refugees to weather it out and I also have said that they should have a some kind of background check to weed out the opportunists and terrorists from the real casualties of war no matter if that inconveniences them or the hippies. It's us first but Europe can feed and warm them for the duration of the crisis.

When it comes to you, not sugar coating is not the same as sewer coating.
Your comment was juvenile, sick, on a level of a 13 year old call of duty player that was a little bit too loved by his mama.
I'll always have a positive comment for Skybird, he's not a moron, just special, same for Rockstar, he's not dumb, just listens to the talking heads too much. And they both made some good comments here. I'll admit that.

So please, don't say you tell the truth. The London sewer outlet spews things more digestible than your garbage. I'd say it might be wise not to let your mouth outrun your brain, but I suspect the brain is already a cripple by this point.

One more thing. Political correctness may be the enemy of truth, but ignorance, vile behavior, barbarism, total disregard for the suffering and egotism is the enemy of progress and I hope George Washington rises from his grave and smacks you to Somalia for being such a total polar opposite of the values he built the US on we Europeans looked upon to and learned from.

[mapuc]

They deserved it.

NO refugees or immigrant deserv this

Aim you anger against your politician in your country, EU, UN a.s.o but not against people who's either fleeing from war, from miserable conditions and who wants to enter safe haven or places where they can have a better living.

Markus

[Rockstar]

And so it begins

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2015/09/16/state-of-emergency-hungarian-police-fire-tear-gas-at-rioting-migrants-trying-to-break-through-border/

Hungarian police have opened fire with tear gas against 1500 rioting migrants who are attempting to break through the country’s border fence. Migrants have been chanting “Allah hu Akbar” while pelting police officers with missiles including “really big rocks”, bottles, and even food, leading to the crack down. The news follows Hungary’s state of emergency declared yesterday.

The Hungarian crack down followed the suspension of the Schengen free movement area by Germany and Austria this weekend. It became clear to German authorities that a significant number of the migrants they were processing were not in fact refugees from Syria. Germany’s local authorities have also complained that they were overwhelmed by the influx of people, and were not about to process or house them effectively.

When this first started governments of the so called 'union' should have worked together regulating their borders better than they did. Instead of offering a free ride on the back of the tax payers. Now everyone both the native born and the immigrant are ticked off.

[Aktungbby]

I'll always have a positive comment for Skybird, he's not a moron, just special, same for Rockstar, he's not dumb, just listens to the talking heads too much.
Whaddabout ME!:wah: I'm special too! Well lightly 'teched' at least :arrgh!::rotfl2: I'm like that other nutcase: I luv kukris and Scat!:O:that was a little bit too loved by his mama. But just to keep it polite; like the mafia we never bring family into the :subsim: discussion. From the Odyessy/Merchant of Venice : "It's a wise son who knows his father!" God help 'em if they don't know their mothers too:haha:

[August]

We have that all the time. People don't want to stay in other countries but come to Germany or Sweden.

How are you folks planning to absorb such a large group of people?

[Betonov]

Serbia won't do anything on their side of the border, because a) they don't have the resources, and b) if they tried someone would probably accuse them of trying to remove kebab. Old habits die hard. :03:


Serbia can always covertly mobilise it's masses that stil lhaven't forgoten the war and when hell breaks loose will just say ''it was not Belgrade sanctioned''
But then again, those masses may mobilise themselves without Belgrade

[Betonov]

But just to keep it polite; like the mafia we never bring family into the :subsim: discussion. From the Odyessy/Merchant of Venice : "It's a wise son who knows his father!" God help 'em if they don't know their mothers too:haha:

I meant spoiled, not incest :O:
And I meant the mother of the nameless CoD player :03:

[Rockstar]

So please, don't say you tell the truth. The London sewer outlet spews things more digestible than your garbage. I'd say it might be wise not to let your mouth outrun your brain, but I suspect the brain is already a cripple by this point.

One more thing. Political correctness may be the enemy of truth, but ignorance, vile behavior, barbarism, total disregard for the suffering and egotism is the enemy of progress and I hope George Washington rises from his grave and smacks you to Somalia for being such a total polar opposite of the values he built the US on we Europeans looked upon to and learned from.

http://assets0.ordienetworks.com/images/GifGuide/clapping/citizen_cane.gif

[Betonov]

Thank you, thank you [majestic bow that fails since I'm fat]
I really must watch that movie one day.

That is unfortunately a possibility, and we really don't have the forces for another KFOR mission. :dead:

Serbia is no longer a backwater nation reeling from a collapse of a union with a friend that was a also reeling from a collapse of another union.
Today Serbia is a modern state with a powerfull friend and a KFOR mission would be scrapped in the security council.

[Schroeder]

How are you folks planning to absorb such a large group of people?
Planning? So far it looks like no one is planning anything. There is one summit after another but nothing concrete so far and I'm pretty sure it will turn out just as well as the last time. Our institutions are completely overstretched as it is so no fast progress can be expected. My (unqualified) guess is that it will take years to be able to offer integration and language classes to all immigrants and by that time they'll already have established their parallel society here and are no longer interested in integration. (Yeah I'm very pessimistic. Maybe I'm wrong and get positively surprised, we can all just hope for that.)

[Aktungbby]

Precisely! It's the worst case scenario; rule 1 of security: if you can think of it...the bad guys already have! Essentially a made to order situation to place 'sleeper' radical jihadists' in the West. Taliban and ISIS militants are not noted for missing opportunity.



Have said it is a highly possibility that some IS-supporters are among those refugees who has crossed the Danish-German border

I don't know how to put it and I hope I'm wrong very wrong

I have a feeling that in the near future we are going to be witness to a simultaneous terror attack across Europe.

Markus

My only comment for the German attitude on the current desaster, is this: Insanity.

is who not only sees the need to find such a thing, but who actually finds it indeed.



IN 2 DAY"S PAPER: http://bigstory.ap.org/article/da10facd92e841739efca5dee5e71a48/refugee-surge-europe-raises-concern-about-militants (http://bigstory.ap.org/article/da10facd92e841739efca5dee5e71a48/refugee-surge-europe-raises-concern-about-militants) When Islamic State extremists lost control of a key crossroads town in northern Syria in June, some militants shed their jihadi garb and blended in with the flood of Syrians fleeing across the Turkish border. Since then, the exodus of Syrians and Iraqis toward Europe has surged — and Europeans opposed to taking in more refugees say that more than ever, they fear "disguised terrorists" in their midst. Governments along the route have different assessments of the threat. Two senior Iraqi officials and a Syrian activist say a small group of hardened Islamic State extremists is believed to have left the war zones of Iraq and Syria to blend in with the masses of asylum seekers in recent weeks.
Intelligence officials in France and Germany expressed skepticism, saying they have no specific evidence.
Rule 2 of security: there is seldom specific evidence...until it is too late ...again!???

[Rockstar]

Almost impossible to discern who the radicals are. When the horde of Catholics migrated from Cuba. They too were infiltrated by radical Catholics which established alpha 66 and omega 7 and operated in the U.S.

[Aktungbby]

Excuse me, sir or madam, are you a member or have ever been a member of a radical religious organisation bent on overthrowing the west?"

Funny you should ask that on this day!:D 1893: At precisely twelve noon, a cannon's boom unleashed the largest land rush America ever saw. Carried by all kinds of transportation - horses, wagons, trains, bicycles or on foot - an estimated 100,000 raced to claim plots of land in an area of land in northern Oklahoma Territory known as the Cherokee Strip. There had been a number of previous land rushes in the Territory - but this was the big one. IMHO: the radical religion was MANIFEST DESTINY (thanks ROCKSTAR)and it was bent on overthrowing the West...in this case the Treaty of 1828 Indian Territory:nope: There were only 42,000 parcels of land available - far too few to satisfy the hopes of all those 100,000 who raced for land that day. 'MERICA!https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/dc/Oklahoma_Land_Rush.jpg Additionally, many of the "Boomers" - those who had waited for the cannon's boom before rushing into the land claim - found that a number of the choice plots had already been claimed by "Sooners". I suspect there are some ISIS boomers mix't in with the refugee sooners; nuthin' goes outta style.

[Rockstar]

Nothing can be done about the 2 or 3 radicals who might be traveling with thousands. Frankly, terrorism would not be my immediate concern. I think the biggest problem is the mass of people heading for unregulated borders, getting different governments to work together to stop the flow, the logistics of caring for them while things get sorted out and assuring citizens the situation is under control.

[Aktungbby]

although my question was directed more towards Aktungbby Actually you separate the accompanied families from single young men of a certain age demographic; Isolate and thoroughly check out the singles first; it's not foolproof but it's a good deal better than the obvious current sloppiness which will leave post-Hebdo Europe exposed. Having, for years myself, checked every ID of every person; removed all Kirpan's from Sikhs entering Federal buildings (some objected on 'religious grounds')https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8d/Kirpan_small.JPG/300px-Kirpan_small.JPG (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Kirpan_small.JPG) and personally inspected all rental bobtail trucks parked curbside by Federal buildings following Oklahoma City...it's slow, meticulous, and tedious; and there cannot be a single lapse. I recollect Ike kept an entire "army in captivity" following WWII https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disarmed_Enemy_Forces (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disarmed_Enemy_Forces) The number of Germans surrendering to U.S. forces shot up from 313,000 by the end of the first quarter of 1945, to 2.6 million by April 1945 and more than 5 million in May. Most were kept so until 1948?!! The Russian POWs did not fare as well...some until 1956. Due to the vast influx and danger this is, unfortunately, the best mass-model we have. Naturally the caloric-food issue should not be as severe as 1945. Technology should considerably speed the vetting/background process. The "kindness coefficient" already demonstated should be superior as well. Moreover the refugees cannot fail to appreciate the terrific strain imposed and would likely cooperate-considering what they're fleeing: literally a Götterdämmerung of sorts. It's not a great plan but everyone has to be checked w/o exception and it's the low-pay front line security types who gotta do it.

[Bubblehead1980]

No, I, as me, do not sugar coat things. I have said that we should make camps for the refugees to weather it out and I also have said that they should have a some kind of background check to weed out the opportunists and terrorists from the real casualties of war no matter if that inconveniences them or the hippies. It's us first but Europe can feed and warm them for the duration of the crisis.

When it comes to you, not sugar coating is not the same as sewer coating.
Your comment was juvenile, sick, on a level of a 13 year old call of duty player that was a little bit too loved by his mama.
I'll always have a positive comment for Skybird, he's not a moron, just special, same for Rockstar, he's not dumb, just listens to the talking heads too much. And they both made some good comments here. I'll admit that.

So please, don't say you tell the truth. The London sewer outlet spews things more digestible than your garbage. I'd say it might be wise not to let your mouth outrun your brain, but I suspect the brain is already a cripple by this point.

One more thing. Political correctness may be the enemy of truth, but ignorance, vile behavior, barbarism, total disregard for the suffering and egotism is the enemy of progress and I hope George Washington rises from his grave and smacks you to Somalia for being such a total polar opposite of the values he built the US on we Europeans looked upon to and learned from.


Hmm you went personal, usually when people go personal, it is because they have no valid response, so in order to deflect yet avoid saying nothing, try to make things personal.I have never played COD in my life, actually I did once, I am more of subsim guy(apparently as you are as well) and not 13 years old, yes my mother loves me very much and to some I am probably spoiled, I had a lot of advantages growing up as my parents were fairly successful.However, when I speak to these issues, especially these issues I am able to speak for the people who actually suffer.My generation has suffered from the failed economy, stagnant wages etc and a huge part of that is immigration, especially illegal immigration. I have watched as my father nearly lost a once thriving business when the crash happened and received NO help from the federal government as he is a white male who has too much according to the government, but will help an off the boat non citizen or new citizen in a heart beat with tax money he paid in all those years.There is no sane person in this world that thinks that is okay, only bleeding hearts with an agenda.

Then there is my tale of woe well I graduated college and started law school but had to take a year and a half off because my father could no longer afford it for the time being.I had some scholarships but was not enough.I could not get grants etc, why? I am a white male and did not grow up poor.Loans? Oh yes, let me become indebted to the government for rest of my life or a huge portion of it. I was reduced to a sales job where yes I made decent money, but worked 50-60 hours a week and put up with a bunch of crap and have nothing to show for it really.Well, things have somewhat turned around, I have resumed classes as of this month but it is still a struggle and just hoping I can make it through.The academics are not the challenge, it's living while finishing up.

I have experienced first hand the impact of illegal immigration from being part of the middle class who suffer stagnant wages as mentioned, because illegals and even legals brought here to fill the job for much less undercutting the labor market.Then there is the incident a year or so ago I remember sharing where a drunk, ILLEGAL immigrant hit a parked car I was in AND attempted to flee.Turns out not his first time and that piece of excrement should not have been here in the first place.Allegedly he will be deported , but I doubt it.

I suspect there are many Europeans who have suffered the same and know many fellow other americans that have suffered directly and indirectly from the unfettered and unintelligent immigration policies of last 30-40 years or so.Europe is suffering more advanced stages of this cancer than we are, but if we do not change, if europe does not change now, we will likely never recover.How was Charlie Hebdo not a wake up call if anything? The riots from the slums of Paris.The underground bombings, the British soldier beheaded in public.My god, what will it take for bleeding fools to see what is going on?

Truth is, you know what I am saying, while not pleasant, kind, empathetic, sympathetic, or in any way helpful to the invaders, or those you call migrants, it is the truth and helpful for OUR societies, especially for my fellow Americans and my European cousins who need to wake up and realize, these people are conquering us, but under the radar, using tolerance and kindness against us, have been for a long time. Instead of rallying with those in europe who oppose this premeditated invasion along with Americans suffering much the same at our southern border(Reconquista), too many bleeding hearts are still blind to the grave consequences for our our nations.

I am not advocating anything inhumane, just rule of law and protecting our societies from an invasion, ensuring we preserve culture that made our various nations great.

Yes, it upset some as I seemed to advocated spitting on the invaders.I said I did not and would not do it myself, but understand why some would do that and will no fault them for it, but better ways to do things.America is waking up, Europe is as well, this invasion has really seemed to kick many Europeans into reality, the tyranny of "PC" and open borders etc days are numbered, can not get here fast enough.

Wake up, really.:/\\!!

[Bubblehead1980]

NO refugees or immigrant deserv this

Aim you anger against your politician in your country, EU, UN a.s.o but not against people who's either fleeing from war, from miserable conditions and who wants to enter safe haven or places where they can have a better living.

Markus


The politicians are the enablers but plenty of anger deserves to go towards these invaders.They have no respect for our laws, sovereignty, the men are not brave enough to band together and fight for their country.I feel bad for them but it is not our job or Europe's to take in every stray with a hard luck story.Countries are overcrowded, over extended.Then you have the clash of civilizations in the big picture.

[Torplexed]

Apparently, some Syrians have taken to traveling though Russia and entering Europe in the Arctic. At the Norwegian-Russian border.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/syrian-refugees-take-arctic-route-to-europe-1441273767

[Betonov]

Oh, and chaps, in regards to BubbleTrump, shall we just stop feeding it? :hmmm:

I'll try. But if you play chess with a pigeon and it craps on the board, flies away and claims victory, it's really hard to ignore.

[Onkel Neal]

Everybody has a right to their opinion. At least he isn't gif-trolling.

[Aktungbby]

it's just the pigeon keeps crapping on the board and claiming victory, even though no-one really cares what it thinks. :hmmm:That is an outrageous lie SIR!:/\\!! :O:
In a famous article in 1995, Watanabe, Sakamoto and Wakita described an experiment which showed that pigeons (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pigeon) can be trained to discriminate between paintings by Picasso (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pablo_Picasso) and by Monet (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claude_Monet).
The birds were first trained on a limited set of paintings: when the shown painting was a Picasso, the pigeon was able to obtain food by repeated pecking; when it was a Monet, pecking had no effect. After a while, the pigeons would only peck when shown Picasso paintings. They were then able to generalize, and correctly discriminate between paintings of the two painters not previously shown, and even between cubist (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cubism) and impressionist (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impressionism) paintings (cubism and impressionism being the two stylistic schools Picasso and Monet belong to). When the Monet paintings were shown upside down, the pigeons were not able to properly categorize anymore; showing the cubist works upside down did not have such an effect.




During World War II, Project Pigeon (later Project Orcon, for "organic control") was American (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States) behaviorist B.F. Skinner (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B.F._Skinner)'s attempt to develop a pigeon-guided missile. The control system involved an array of up to three lenses (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lens_(optics)) at the front of the missile (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missile) – using the same National Bureau of Standards (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Bureau_of_Standards)-developed, unpowered airframe later used for the onboard radar-guided US Navy Bat glide missile (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bat_(guided_bomb)) – projecting an image of the target to a screen inside, while one to three pigeons (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pigeon) trained (by operant conditioning (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operant_conditioning)) to recognize the target pecked at it. As long as the pecks remained in the center of the screen, the missile would fly straight, but pecks off-center would cause the screen to tilt, which would then, via a connection to the missile's flight controls, cause the missile to change course and slowly change the flight path towards its designated target.
:D https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oIlIVFBBbNw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oIlIVFBBbNw) https://s3.amazonaws.com/lowres.cartoonstock.com/animals-birds-get_a_grip-bird-pigeons-tight_grip-mban848_low.jpg (https://www.cartoonstock.com/cartoonview.asp?catref=mban848)

[GT182]

A friend of mine just came back from a 2-1/2 weeks vacation in Paris. He saw the migrant Problem first hand over there. They' re begging for money and sleeping on blankets out on the back streets of Paris by the hundreds and hundreds. Men , women, and children. included.

So if you think it's not a problem, guess again. BTW, he's in ICE/Homeland Security here in Delaware.

[Betonov]

find the gif troll and demolish his bridge

[Betonov]

I got a Land rover and I'm not afraid to use it

https://www.minnpost.com/sites/default/files/asset/z/zbh3s7/zbh3s7.jpg

[Rockstar]

A friend of mine just came back from a 2-1/2 weeks vacation in Paris. He saw the migrant Problem first hand over there. They' re begging for money and sleeping on blankets out on the back streets of Paris by the hundreds and hundreds. Men , women, and children. included.

So if you think it's not a problem, guess again. BTW, he's in ICE/Homeland Security here in Delaware.

Hmmm, that could be read as U.S. Homeland Security agent visits Paris as advisor to French government. Oh ya, I smell a European FEMA camp conspiracy in the works here.

[Bubblehead1980]

I will say, the BubbleTrump thing was funny and if being compared to Trump, I have no problem.Despite his flaws, he is an intelligent man, he just does not care about the rules, which are basically there to constrain people from telling the truth.Trump's ascension is explained by that, a large number of people get it, and many are waking up.Whether he is the one who takes us there, that remains to be seen but he has changed the conversation, has people actually focusing on the the greatest threat to our country(and in all of Europe as well), which is immigration, illegal immigration in particular.

I was not trolling, I explained myself and I know many agree, perhaps someone will chime in.I like this site but in GT there are so many rules that stifle free speech and many seem afraid to engage.

Several of my opponents on here just deflect, call names, ignore etc because they are not capable of showing I am wrong.They simply FEEL that their sympathy for the invaders overrules anything else, despite the oh so obvious negative consequences. They are not able to explain how illegal immigration and even legal immigration does not hurt the labor force, undercut wages etc or further strains an already strained system but in Europe and the US.

I am aware that not everyone has had their moment yet, but the rise of Trump in the US, the right in Europe etc, many people are waking up to the danger, which is clear and present.The politicians and business, the elites are the ones who know but do not care but they will care as the political tide turns.Only way to save the US and Europe is to stop the madness now, or in 50-100 years, we won't recognize them.I barely recognize my country anymore and am not even 30 years old yet, really is a shame.The very foundation and character of our homelands are under assault, wake up.

I don't mind being the "bad guy" on here as many of those who oppose me are affected by this issue but are too blind at moment to see the problem or again, if do they let their sympathy blind them.Notice I have not insulted anyone? Yet others get away with insulting me/

[u crank]

...... has people actually focusing on the the greatest threat to our country(and in all of Europe as well), which is immigration, illegal immigration in particular.

They are not able to explain how illegal immigration and even legal immigration does not hurt the labor force, undercut wages etc or further strains an already strained system but in Europe and the US./

Surely you must realize that the people who are entering your country illegally to work are being hired by and are doing work for American citizens. These people and their customers benefit from this cheap labor force. Why aren't you criticizing these people who are American citizens. It is quite possible that you in a roundabout way benefit as well without knowing it.

Only way to save the US and Europe is to stop the madness now, or in 50-100 years, we won't recognize them.I barely recognize my country anymore and am not even 30 years old yet, really is a shame.The very foundation and character of our homelands are under assault, wake up.

I think you are living in a dream world. Everything changes all the time. We live in a world of rapid change and the pace of that change is increasing. The United States has changed a lot in my life time as has most other countries. You're the one who should wake up and see the world for what it really is.

Notice I have not insulted anyone? Yet others get away with insulting me

Saying that people deserve to be spit on is an insult to anyone who has a shred of human decency.

[Bubblehead1980]

Surely you must realize that the people who are entering your country illegally to work are being hired by and are doing work for American citizens. These people and their customers benefit from this cheap labor force. Why aren't you criticizing these people who are American citizens. It is quite possible that you in a roundabout way benefit as well without knowing it.



I think you are living in a dream world. Everything changes all the time. We live in a world of rapid change and the pace of that change is increasing. The United States has changed a lot in my life time as has most other countries. You're the one who should wake up and see the world for what it really is.



Saying that people deserve to be spit on is an insult to anyone who has a shred of human decency.


Yes, I am for harsh penalties for those who knowingly hire illegal immigrants.I am talking such criminal and civil penalties, people would be scared to death to hire.Would it completely go away? No However, it would stop much of it and with few if any willing to hire them, they would stop coming for most part.This in conjunction with absolutely forbidding any welfare, schooling for children, a secure border, tough enforcement etc would deter them from coming here or remaining here .About only thing would be immediate life saving care at hospitals, everything else, no way.

Wages are artificially low while cost of everything else is high primarily due to a flooder labor market, much of it illegal or foreign workers who may be here legally but will work for much much less than americans.Sorry, no american worker should have to compete in their own country with someone who does not even belong here.Americans first, other after.


A dream world? no, but current world we are in is a nightmare for most of us.However, people all over, actual native citizens and producers of the world are waking up to the cancer killing our nations. America could be salvaged somewhat if we start reforms now or in next couple years, Europe may just be done for. Otherwise the cancer of multiculturalism will finish us off along with Europe.

Just to be clear, all am advocating is secure borders, strict enforcement of immigration laws on books now, deportation of illegal immigrants, tough penalties for those who employ or assist them in anything other than life saving medical care and exiting the country along with a much needed return to the pre 1965 quotas.We have too many people now, its killing us, we cant take everyone in.Sad, but just how it is.

"human decency" you speak of is being a weak minded, emotion driven non man in this point.Like I said, I would not have spat on them, I disagree with that BUT I understand his anger, anyone who loves their country, put's it and fellow citizens first should feel angry as what is nothing more than an invasion.Instead of Germans rolling into Poland in tanks and trucks, this is a force even more vile moving in taking advantage of so called "human decency", really it is over time conquering Europe without firing a shot.SMH

[Buddahaid]

A little American history lesson is called for here.

"During the Great Depression of the 1930s, racial anxieties ran high. Mexicans in California and other states were seen as competition for already scarce jobs. Various civic organizations and chambers of commerce successfully pressed local, county, and state governments to round up Mexican Americans indiscriminately (citizens and non-citizens alike) and "repatriate" them to Mexico."

http://www.calisphere.universityofcalifornia.edu/calcultures/ethnic_groups/subtopic3b.html

[ikalugin]

Well, obviously it's a given that there are Daesh agents in this crowd, but what are you going to do, stop and ask each one of them:
"Excuse me, sir or madam, are you a member or have ever been a member of a radical religious organisation bent on overthrowing the west?"
I get asked that on every single VISA application form.

In the british one you get asked that not once, but a number of times (also - if you have commited genocyde or warcrimes).

[u crank]

Wages are artificially low while cost of everything else is high primarily due to a flooder labor market, much of it illegal or foreign workers who may be here legally but will work for much much less than americans.Sorry, no american worker should have to compete in their own country with someone who does not even belong here.Americans first, other after.

Most immigrants, legal or otherwise do jobs that most Americans will not do. That's true in America and even way out here on the east coast of Canada. We can't get farm or fish plant workers so immigrants are brought in. Face it man, Americans are not competing for most low paying labor intensive jobs that illegals do. Are you?

Otherwise the cancer of multiculturalism will finish us off along with Europe.

You live in a land that became a country in the exact same way. People from all over the world came to America, took the land from its former owners, learned to live together, intermarried and created the United States. That's an oversimplification but that is what happened. Just because you live there now doesn't mean it wont happen again. I actually don't think it will. For every 'bad immigrant' you will get hundreds who will become good citizens. They will embrace the American dream and become your neighbors. BTW, where are your ancestors from?

We have too many people now, its killing us, we cant take everyone in.Sad, but just how it is.

Give us some proof.

Instead of Germans rolling into Poland in tanks and trucks, this is a force even more vile moving in taking advantage of so called "human decency", really it is over time conquering Europe without firing a shot.SMH

For a moment there I thought you were apologizing. Guess not.:nope:

[Aktungbby]

Most immigrants, legal or otherwise do jobs that most Americans will not do. That's true in America and even way out here on the east coast of Canada. We can't get farm or fish plant workers so immigrants are brought in. Face it man, Americans are not competing for most low paying labor intensive jobs that illegals do. Are you?






[/QUOTE=aktungbby]
[QUOTE]But hey! I like my chicken packaged,http://www.takepart.com/sites/default/files/styles/inline_thumbnail/public/57099701_0.jpg?itok=ftGf4dwO I speeka Spanish and the los peones nuevos pay into my $ocial $ecurity!
Let all come here! The $ystem always need new members starting at the bottom and workin' ^; payin in to keep the whole economic mirage goin'! Napa grape pickers, my yard man, the house- keeper... Bienvenidos BBY! PS: I used to wash dishes, carried golf bags, swept a few warehouses/unloaded railcars and picked onions in CA for two summers myself; so it's hardly a class distinction.:salute: Been there: now it's someone else's turn!

[Betonov]

While does everyone think this will destroy Europe.
It's a continent. It's not like the combined power of islam will tear it up by the tectonic plate and throw it into the sun :doh:

Europeans have a tendency to go far right or far left when a crisis hits.
Both scenarios spell trouble for us though.

[Sailor Steve]

Europeans have a tendency to go far right or far left when a crisis hits.
Both scenarios spell trouble for us though.
Not just Europeans. :sunny:

[Dan D]

Hathaway, James C.: Moving Beyond the Asylum Muddle, VerfBlog, 2015/9/14, http://www.verfassungsblog.de/en/moving-beyond-the-asylum-muddle




Short: Revitalize the UNHCR to administer quotas


..It is, of course, patently unfair that countries such as Greece or Hungary be expected to assume most of Europe’s responsibility under the EU’s so-called “first country of arrival” rule, which forces refugees to stay in the first place they arrive – whatever that country’s resources, and whatever protection is realistically available there (or not).


But in all of the talk about the European refugee crisis, we have lost sight of the fact that just three countries bordering Syria – Jordan, Lebanon, and Turkey – have received more than ten times as many Syrian refugees as the rest of the world combined.


Indeed, more than 80% of the world’s refugees live in countries of the less developed world and are guaranteed no financial support from wealthier countries. Nor are these front-line states meaningfully assisted by resettlement.


Of the roughly 14,000,000 refugees in the world last year, only about 100,000 were resettled – with just two countries, the United States and Canada, providing the lion’s share of this woefully inadequate contribution...


Not only governments – but most tragically, even the international refugee agency, UNHCR – have been inattentive to the fact that the drafters of the Convention never intended the treaty to operate in the atomized and uncoordinated way that has characterized most of its nearly 65-year history. To the contrary, the Preamble to the Refugee Convention expressly recognizes that “the grant of asylum may place unduly heavy burdens on certain countries,” such that real global protection “cannot therefore be achieved without international co-operation.” Action to realize this promise in the Refugee Convention’s Preamble is more important now than ever. ...

[Skybird]

After WWII, ins nhort time over 12 million people of german descent had to flee from eastern territories and into war-torn Germany. With 25% of pre-war housing destroyed, no economy and no jobs, hunger being widespread, it is an urban legend that there was a strong culture of welcoming the refugees back then, although these for the most were cultural relatives, sharing speech, religion, historically grown identity, moral values, descent, etc. I know this from first hand witnesses, because the family of my father was one of those refugees that needed to flee. Life of the refugees in Germany was a lousy one, they stood at the very end of the social ladder, had no chance to climb it up until the early 60s, and everybody hated them for picking away from the already scarce resources. The childhood of my father and his older brother, was miserable, sometimes hell.

The people now flooding into Germany, for the most are Muslims, have a totally different socialisation, are educated in completely different and all too often opposing moral values, are a completely different speech tribe, and burst into a Germany that already has according to various studies 400,000 to 700,000 lacking flats and serious budget deficits for investing into education and infrastructure. And the boss of the German labour agency already had to admit that due to the newcomers flooding the labour market, unemployment rate next year must be expected to show a very steep climb. Not even every third seems to qualify for the education standards needed to integrate him into the labour market, btw, although severla hundred thousand jobs are vacant. It must be feared that the costs for the social system in netto effect will outclass the gains. There is the attempt over here to gloss over the impact of the refugees and migrants by referring to Germany's critical demographic situation, that the population is overgaing and that the mass of young people now coming in is pour relief. Well - that remains to be seen. Scepticism trumps optimism, imo.

And this is the projection for just the end of this year when over 1 million arrivals will have been counted. The coming years with even more arrivals are not even present in the formula.

Well.

[Bubblehead1980]

Most immigrants, legal or otherwise do jobs that most Americans will not do. That's true in America and even way out here on the east coast of Canada. We can't get farm or fish plant workers so immigrants are brought in. Face it man, Americans are not competing for most low paying labor intensive jobs that illegals do. Are you?



You live in a land that became a country in the exact same way. People from all over the world came to America, took the land from its former owners, learned to live together, intermarried and created the United States. That's an oversimplification but that is what happened. Just because you live there now doesn't mean it wont happen again. I actually don't think it will. For every 'bad immigrant' you will get hundreds who will become good citizens. They will embrace the American dream and become your neighbors. BTW, where are your ancestors from?



Give us some proof.



For a moment there I thought you were apologizing. Guess not.:nope:


Americans would do those jobs if were paid a decent wage.That is an invalid argument used by the open borders crowd to justify the lawlessness.That is a prime example of undercutting the labor market:/\\!! I am not one of them, but plenty of Americans willing to do that work, but since are americans not raised in third world, they have a standard of living and are not willing to be as exploited as others and there is nothing wrong with that.Wages are kept low by the flood of illegal and immigrant labor, that is just obvious. Pay an american to pick fruit but instead of slave like wages of by the bushel, pay a decent hourly wage etc they would do it. Immigrant labor is just big business way to not have to pay people decent money for labor.Costs are already high while wages are kept artificially low, jacking up prices upon enacting a law preventing this would need to be considering price gouging and thus a crime.Pro business types will say oh it will hurt etc etc, it won't hurt big corporations who are mostly ones who do this one bit.Thing can be done to help the small businesses transition off the drug of cheap labor.Want human decency? Lets show some to our fellow citizens who have to work crummy jobs or are in need of jobs and make sure if they are willing to work, they can and dont need to be on he dole to just barely get by.

Let's say I am wrong, then I would be okay with a properly ran migrant worker program.Workers would be allowed to come here for a season to pick fruit or for 6 months at a time, then they must go back and if no criminal record etc, they may return when issued another work permit.They would be eligible for NO benefits or any kind from the government and would be required to check in weekly and wear an ankle monitor program ran by ICE and paid for by the employer, much like on probation. Breaking this "probation", the penalty would be so severe, and clearly stated to them it is so severe, they would dare no break it.This along with making penalties for employing illegals even more harsh, civil and criminal.


No sir, this is different than the past.First, this was not a sovereign nation when original settlers came here despite what the native american grievance types so(yes they have a fewlegitimate gripes but were different times and they were no angels either) they were conquered in armed conflict over period of years, it happens.

The wave of european immigrants came in a different time, they were needed mostly and quotas along with proper enforcement of laws and focus on assimilation by society as well as immigrants themselves was the norm.There were tensions, that is natural but it was not an invasion as it is now.Immigration from western europe is a lot different than from the middle east.Not because of race, but because the cultures, mainly driven by religion are so vastly different, they just dont mix, clash of civilizations.Big picture, most have rather sinister motives, it is using our tolerance and kindness to conquer europe and the US slowly but surely over time.


Most of my mother's side were here before the revolution, a lot of them went out to texas, lot of english and scots on that side.Father's side mostly irish came here in 1800's, ended up being lace curtain.Again, it was a different world, more people were needed.Now, we are overcrowded and overburdened, we dont have room, especially for illegals.Reserve that human decency for our own fellow citizens.


I have nothing to apologize for. I did not say I would personally spit on an immigrant invader, but said I understand why some would and won't fault them for it.

[Aktungbby]

...far left when a crisis hits.
Both scenarios spell trouble for us though.
As with the news today: unable to penetrate Hungary from Serbia the refugees are
"Police did not use force against the migrants, as they tried to keep the barriers in place. They finally gave up and the migrants started running into Croatia.
Terence Pike, with the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees in Croatia, told CNN that Croatian authorities had been prepared to handle only an influx of 500 migrants and refugees a day
headed west to Croatia-lookin' at the map- a big turn to far left indeed!https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CPG9inKUAAUiSEC.jpg

[Bubblehead1980]

While does everyone think this will destroy Europe.
It's a continent. It's not like the combined power of islam will tear it up by the tectonic plate and throw it into the sun :doh:

Europeans have a tendency to go far right or far left when a crisis hits.
Both scenarios spell trouble for us though.


Because history shows the clash of civilizations.Islamic "values" culture etc is just not compatible with western society.Over time, the demographic changes will "destroy" the society.These changes start small cracks at the foundation and over time, may even take 50 years or more, but over time you have problems should never have had thanks to weak "tolerance" of mindsets from the dark ages.

This is already happening in early stages in places like France.Charlie Hebdo likely would have never happened if not for "tolerance". The beheading of british soldier in the street by a muslim would not have happened. The US has it's problem with islam as well.Dearborn, Michigan is known as "Dearbornistan" for a reason.Prime example of allowing demographics to shift so much, they run that place like it is not even a US city.

California has been ruined by this shift.Not racist here, okay with immigration from non white countries but failing to properly assimilate people and being too tolerant of those with the mentality of entitlement from other nations has lead to this.

[August]

I used to wash dishes, carried golf bags, swept a few warehouses/unloaded railcars and picked onions in CA for two summers myself; so it's hardly a class distinction.:salute: Been there: now it's someone else's turn!

Someone else like one of our own citizens. I don't buy the theory that those are jobs that Americans don't want to do. My first job was washing dishes too, and i've pumped gas and filled pot holes for the highway department and half a dozen other similar low paying, menial jobs when I was a youngster. I didn't do it for the experience or any such silly reason, I did it to earn money.

Illegals are taking those opportunities away from todays generation of young folks. We would never have gotten those jobs if there was an illegal that would do the work at below minimum wage.

[Bubblehead1980]

As with the news today: unable to penetrate Hungary from Serbia the refugees are headed west to Croatia-lookin' at the map- a big turn to far left indeed!https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CPG9inKUAAUiSEC.jpg



wow just let them in? :/\\!! I heard one country used water cannons and tear gas, ALL should do that.Make real consequences for the lawless, savage like behavior and it will stop.Same at the US border.Ah weakness of governments:/\\!!

[Schroeder]

I know this from first hand witnesses, because the family of my father was one of those refugees that needed to flee. Life of the refugees in Germany was a lousy one, they stood at the very end of the social ladder, had no chance to climb it up until the early 60s, and everybody hated them for picking away from the already scarce resources.
Odd. My grandfather came from Stettin (now called Szczecin and part of Poland) and managed to settle into West Germany pretty well. He became a fire fighter in 1947 and was "verbeamted" around the same time (that means he became a federal officer with all the privileges and duties that brings). I also never heard him complain about being treated unfairly because of being from the east.
Maybe it depended on where in Germany people settled?:doh:

[Skybird]

Odd. My grandfather came from Stettin (now called Szczecin and part of Poland) and managed to settle into West Germany pretty well. He became a fire fighter in 1947 and was "verbeamted" around the same time (that means he became a federal officer with all the privileges and duties that brings). I also never heard him complain about being treated unfairly because of being from the east.
Maybe it depended on where in Germany people settled?:doh:
It does. My father'S people first ended up in Rostock, later had to move to Münster. Two very different places, and two very different lives. Rostock was difficult, but managable, Münster was hostile ground. Local mentality also is a factor. Living in Münster myself now, I must say that the old-grown, typical city-mentality is something that i do not like one bit myself. Very stuck-up, and haughtily, though tib has softened up a bit - its the third-biggest university in Germany by numbers, and the students changed it a bit over the years. With the farmers, it is different, Eichendorff called them "the sensible oak-trees", and their is truth in it.

Historical statistics however show that until the late 50s and early 60s, over 80% of the refugees ended up in job and on a social level at the very bottom. In parts that is because they were the ones moving in and facing a job hierarchy that may have been in rebuilding still, but nevertheless favoured local residents who simply knew the place better and had better social contacts to help their careers. For the refugees, it was unknown, all too often hostile ground.

That the government forced house and flat owners and residing families to take in refugees and let them live inside their flats, did not make it any better and raised additional hostility.

[Betonov]

Because history shows the clash of civilizations.Islamic "values" culture etc is just not compatible with western society.Over time, the demographic changes will "destroy" the society.

History shows nothing.
For the last 1400 years Islam has dominated a desert and was either colonised by Europe or balkanised by themselves.

And now because there are some Ahmeds opening kebab shops in Europe and some Fatimas cleaning schools we're being overrun and because the father prays 5 times a day means that the rebellious teenage son will not give in to the decadence of Europe ?? I'm willing to bet €1000 that 95% of all ISIL members that ran from Europe were virgins. Some fat loosers that turned to Allah after they were turned down by women.

Don't worry about Europe, we survived WW1, WW2 and the cold war. 200 000 muslims heading to a 700 000 000 population is just a crisis to keep the politicians scandal free for a while.
The Germans migrated in bigger numbers in 1939 and they brought tanks.

And a sunite will rather kill a shiite than a christian and a shiite will rather kill a sunite than a christian.

[u crank]

Americans would do those jobs if were paid a decent wage.

I am not one of them, but plenty of Americans willing to do that work....

I'm sorry but I don't believe that for a minute. I think you would be hard pressed to find Americans who would do that kind of work these days. You certainly would not find enough to replace the present work force. I would bet on it.

Wages are kept low by the flood of illegal and immigrant labor, that is just obvious

Wages are kept low because of the price of food in relatively cheap. Something which you as an American benefit from. Same as the fast food industry. Cheap food, cheap labor. It's simple economics and is driven by the consumer. It's also part of that free market system you guys are so proud of.

Let's say I am wrong, then I would be okay with a properly ran migrant worker program.Workers would be allowed to come here for a season to pick fruit or for 6 months at a time, then they must go back and if no criminal record etc, they may return when issued another work permit.They would be eligible for NO benefits or any kind from the government and would be required to check in weekly and wear an ankle monitor program ran by ICE and paid for by the employer, much like on probation. Breaking this "probation", the penalty would be so severe, and clearly stated to them it is so severe, they would dare no break it.This along with making penalties for employing illegals even more harsh, civil and criminal.


That is hilarious. "ankle monitor program". Are you joking? Perhaps some snappy striped uniforms as well.

First, this was not a sovereign nation when original settlers came here despite what the native american grievance types say

No it was not a sovereign nation it was many sovereign nations. Does that make it right? Do some reading. This book is a good start.

http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/1491-charles-c-mann/1100618256#productInfoTabs

Immigration from western europe is a lot different than from the middle east.Not because of race, but because the cultures, mainly driven by religion are so vastly different, they just dont mix, clash of civilizations.Big picture, most have rather sinister motives, it is using our tolerance and kindness to conquer europe and the US slowly but surely over time.

they were conquered in armed conflict over period of years, it happens.

I have nothing to apologize for. I did not say I would personally spit on an immigrant invader, but said I understand why some would and won't fault them for it.

No, you said they deserved it.

[Buddahaid]

California has been ruined by this shift.Not racist here, okay with immigration from non white countries but failing to properly assimilate people and being too tolerant of those with the mentality of entitlement from other nations has lead to this.

I live there and it's far from ruined but I suspect your idea of ruin is cultural diversity. And if that's the case I'd rather live in ruin than a monoculture.

[Rockstar]

Because history shows the clash of civilizations.Islamic "values" culture etc is just not compatible with western society.Over time, the demographic changes will "destroy" the society.These changes start small cracks at the foundation and over time, may even take 50 years or more, but over time you have problems should never have had thanks to weak "tolerance" of mindsets from the dark ages.

This is already happening in early stages in places like France.Charlie Hebdo likely would have never happened if not for "tolerance". The beheading of british soldier in the street by a muslim would not have happened. The US has it's problem with islam as well.Dearborn, Michigan is known as "Dearbornistan" for a reason.Prime example of allowing demographics to shift so much, they run that place like it is not even a US city.

California has been ruined by this shift.Not racist here, okay with immigration from non white countries but failing to properly assimilate people and being too tolerant of those with the mentality of entitlement from other nations has lead to this.

Look closer there are cities within every city in the U.S. Where people generally group together or are segregated because of language, skin color, economic class, education, tradition, religion, or ethinc origins.

Also, what does it mean to properly assimilate, how does one go about doing that?

Take for example my grandfather as a young man he could not find a job in his native country. He hops on a ship bound for America in 1902 migrates to Wisconsin finding work at a lumber company, a farm, as a deckhand and eventually as a ship captain. He got married to a good lookin Finnish girl raised two children and died. In all his years here he was still unable to speak english very well. Other than his immigration to the States I can't think of anything he would have done differently had he stayed in Europe. At what point would you have considered him assimilated and a good American?

Minnesota is the unofficial Norweigan capital of the United States. Lets round them up and ship'em out if they cant assimilate. They're taking over the state and jobs from real Americans and making them eat Lutefisk.

[Aktungbby]

I live there and it's far from ruined but I suspect your idea of ruin is cultural diversity. And if that's the case I'd rather live in ruin than a monoculture.
That from a guy living behind the Robin Williams Tunnel Marin 'race barrier':woot::D:rotfl2:http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.2198819.1429989710!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/article_970/waldo-tunnel.jpg?enlarged
Robin Williams: "No matter what color you are, you're white when you come out the other side and enter tony Marin," he often quipped. The 'rainbow tunnel'; gateway to ritzy Marin County:up: and making them eat Lutefisk. Don't fergit Hamm's and Spam!

[Rockstar]

Lol. I remember my aunt Elena serving up a bowl of moijakka. Thank god she hadnt fully assimilated and learned about Spam. Though she was Jewish so I doubt she would have bought it anyway.

[Aktungbby]

Lol. I remember my aunt Elena serving up a bowl of moijakka. Thank god she hadnt fully assimilated and learned about Spam. Though she was Jewish so I doubt she would have bought it anyway. OYVE For her we got LOOF BBY:D http://www.jewishideasdaily.com/wp-content/files_mf/file_9b6d382b.jpg For the millions of Israeli citizens drafted into the Israel Defense Forces over the past 60 years, military service has involved patriotism, community, self-sacrifice—and Loof, Israel's kosher Spam. NO lutefiske sushi for me!https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7b/Spam_musubi_at_Ninja_Sushi.jpg/220px-Spam_musubi_at_Ninja_Sushi.jpg (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Spam_musubi_at_Ninja_Sushi.jpg)
:yeah:

[Betonov]

After Hungary refused entry and Croatia does it's best to get them out, it's Slovenias turn.

Right now we only take in the quotas aproved by Brussels and those who are granted entry are taken to refugee centers set up further inland. As soon as they are set up in the centers it seems they just get up and go towards Austria. Right now there is no hightened security on Austria-Slovenia border.
Tear gas has been used on both migrants and anti-migrant hotheads.

https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpt1/v/t1.0-9/12011379_10153820217157018_840586555207305320_n.jp g?oh=286ded4bd88e55dc2bab02284e202712&oe=56A4724E

[Buddahaid]

Meanwhile elsewhere in Slovenia.......
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUWOYOpLy1I :woot:

[Betonov]

Meanwhile elsewhere in Slovenia.......
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUWOYOpLy1I :woot:

You can never go wrong with Slavko Avsenik :rock:

[Betonov]

2 volunteer ''convoys'' run daily to the border crossings.
One to feed the migrants and one to feed the cops. Bloody shame, they're working overtime like mad for €700 a month and all the state gives them are a sandwich :nope: Being fed by the same people they'll have to write tickets to after this is over :nope:

[Kongo Otto]

I don't want them in my country and to be honest i do not give a rats fart if they drown in the med or starve to death in one of their islam infested third world shyteholes which oozed them out. End of story.

[STEED]

I don't want them in my country and to be honest i do not give a rats fart if they drown in the med or starve to death in one of their islam infested third world shyteholes which oozed them out. End of story.

Blunt and to the point there. :o

[Tchocky]

I don't want them in my country and to be honest i do not give a rats fart if they drown in the med or starve to death in one of their islam infested third world shyteholes which oozed them out. End of story.

Stay away from the keyboard.

Stops the drivel coming out.

[Betonov]

Blunt and to the point there. :o

I got a better description, but the mods will be over me faster than over him.

[Buddahaid]

http://www.banklawyersblog.com/.a/6a00d8341c652b53ef015391c79429970b-800wi

[STEED]

I got a better description, but the mods will be over me faster than over him.

Indeed.

[CCIP]

You know, everybody talks about protecting Western democratic, humanitarian or even Christian values and being better than Islamist theocracy or rampant socialism or whatever, but I gotta ask, what part of democratic Western or Chistian values are you protecting, anyway? The WWJD ("What would Jesus do?") question immediately pops into my head. Likewise, the question of what anyone actually important to Western values, from Aristotle to Ben Franklin say to all this? What are these values that you're afraid are being taken away? Who is taking them away? Is it that hoard of people displaced by war, or is it those who get elected on a platform of denying humanity, putting a price on suffering, and dividing people into categories? What are all these great values you speak of?

I'm sorry, but all I can come to the conclusion is that the grounding to all this is alien to Western or Christian values, except in terms of being grounded in the worst and least humanitarian of it all - either (neo)conservative fundamentalism, no less reality-warping, religion-warping and terror-based than ISIS ideology; or a sort of objectivist pseudo-intellectual fascism. I'm sorry, but if that's what you're standing up for, then your idea of the Western society is utter trash, and everything you fear those evil bogeymen of the Orient will do to you is precisely what you deserve. Nobody should have any patience for fascists. Otherwise, if you profess defense of Western or Christian values, maybe it's time to check your sources and see what they say about helping those in need or human equality.

[Gargamel]

Missed most of this thread, but I chuckled at this...

http://satwcomic.com/art/looking-for-a-new-home.png

[Schroeder]

You know, everybody talks about protecting Western democratic, humanitarian or even Christian values and being better than Islamist theocracy or rampant socialism or whatever, but I gotta ask, what part of democratic Western or Chistian values are you protecting, anyway?
Freedom of choice. Plain and simple. How much freedom do you have in Islam? I would say not much it regulates a lot of every day's life like how often you have to pray, what clothes are acceptable, what you can and can't eat etc. I fear a slow islamization of Europe. Once they'll have sufficient numbers it could get really ugly. It will take decades or even centuries but the train seems to be on it's tracks and I fear for my children and grandchildren.
Today I can say out loud that I'm an atheist. Will my grandchildren be able to do that too or will that condemn them under sharia law? Islam isn't tolerant of people who don't follow it's rules. That's why I don't like it one bit to get another million or so of them here.

[mapuc]

About Gargamel picture-Even Sweden didn't register them, that is those who went to Norway and Finland.

Markus

[August]

I think multiculturalism can work in a big country like the US that can absorb large numbers of immigrants but i'm not so sure how well it works in smaller ones like the size of most European nations without them loosing their individual identities.

[Bubblehead1980]

I don't want them in my country and to be honest i do not give a rats fart if they drown in the med or starve to death in one of their islam infested third world shyteholes which oozed them out. End of story.

Well said.

[ikalugin]

You know, everybody talks about protecting Western democratic, humanitarian or even Christian values and being better than Islamist theocracy or rampant socialism or whatever, but I gotta ask, what part of democratic Western or Chistian values are you protecting, anyway? The WWJD ("What would Jesus do?") question immediately pops into my head. Likewise, the question of what anyone actually important to Western values, from Aristotle to Ben Franklin say to all this? What are these values that you're afraid are being taken away? Who is taking them away? Is it that hoard of people displaced by war, or is it those who get elected on a platform of denying humanity, putting a price on suffering, and dividing people into categories? What are all these great values you speak of?

I'm sorry, but all I can come to the conclusion is that the grounding to all this is alien to Western or Christian values, except in terms of being grounded in the worst and least humanitarian of it all - either (neo)conservative fundamentalism, no less reality-warping, religion-warping and terror-based than ISIS ideology; or a sort of objectivist pseudo-intellectual fascism. I'm sorry, but if that's what you're standing up for, then your idea of the Western society is utter trash, and everything you fear those evil bogeymen of the Orient will do to you is precisely what you deserve. Nobody should have any patience for fascists. Otherwise, if you profess defense of Western or Christian values, maybe it's time to check your sources and see what they say about helping those in need or human equality.
As those values are not universal or even common in the world at this time it may be prudent to make sacrifices today for those values to triumph tommorow. However that said, one has to determine if the current flow of refugees does create an existential threat to western comunities, culture and values. In my opinion it does not at the moment, nor is it likely to in the medium term, provided EU conduct a reasonable policy of enforcing local laws and customs.

Or does this also fall into "Fascism" category?

[CCIP]

I would suggest that any sacrifice of human rights or guiding principles that make your society allegedly different from those other "awful" ones is not acceptable. A good reminder, again, of why I don't live in Russia today because the regime and populace alike there seem to have no difficulty sacrificing these rights under rather dubious justifications. "Existential threats" are awfully easy to manufacture in a popular consciousness. Awfully. Remember the examples of actual fascist propaganda I'd posted just a few pages ago.

As to the freedom of choice, sure, that's an issue - but I would also suggest that it's a logical fallacy to think that even for most Muslims the codes of behaviour are somehow not a choice or enforced by necessary violence or incompatible with liberal thought. Or that they're suddenly going to destroy everything for your children. More fundamentally, their predicament is not a choice, and their values - whether voluntary or enforced - do not dehumanize them or remove our core value of treating others as equals. People are people. They're not fundamentally different regardless of culture or beliefs. Unless your opinion of them is informed by media sensationalism or certain avian members of this board :88)

That's not to trivialize problems - which there are with religion and culture, whatever it may be, but I also encourage people to not become spokesmen on behalf of groups that they do not represent or particularly know. Leave Muslims and their ideology alone for the moment - what are we supposed to stand for here?

[Betonov]

We just need a set boundry between rights and privilige.
Having a no pork option in a mess hall is a right.
Demanding every meal be halal even for non muslims is a privilige and should be refused and if they make a stink about it burn their visas. you're a guest here, act like it.
Restaurants can serve what they want and they should vote with their wallets.

I used food as an example but it can be translated to anything else.

[ikalugin]

This dilema is older than Islam. Does one sacrifice his rights or rights of a minority to defend the majority from some sort of threat, or does one allow that threat do destroy him and that majority?
My answer is yes, however such sacrifice must be based on the real and present threat, which the current crisis does not present us with, atleast not yet. Example of such (clear and present) threat would be a threat of existintial event, such as meterite crash. Or would you be against sacrifice of freedoms and liberties even under such threat?

Sure Muslims (and their subset - the refugees) are humans. The issue is that (in improbable worst case scenario) the values would be replaced with new ones, by the people who do not share them, as liberal western values (atleast in my opinion) are not universal or common.
However this is dependent on the lack of enforcement of local laws and customs and substantial change in population mix, which would not (in all likelyhood) occur.

As a conclusion - no, the immigrants crisis (atleast as it looks so far) won't destroy Europe, but yes, there is a requirement for an in depth response to it, as the crisis does create various problems, that must be solved, as otherwise the rule of law would be threatened.

[Betonov]

I think multiculturalism can work in a big country like the US that can absorb large numbers of immigrants but i'm not so sure how well it works in smaller ones like the size of most European nations without them loosing their individual identities.

The US was lucky in this aspect as it was big and empty enough for all the different enclaves to develop without starting to step on eachothers toes and as generation passed, not to mention 2 victorius world wars, the multicultured map started to melt into one American.

Europe has slowly learned to live with their neighbours and small minorites within borders and for the most part those small minorities respected the law of the land.
But one culture has to be dominant. Because that one writes the secular laws and the rest must follow it. Total assimilation is not really needed for this to work.

[August]

The US was lucky in this aspect as it was big and empty enough for all the different enclaves to develop without starting to step on eachothers toes and as generation passed, not to mention 2 victorius world wars, the multicultured map started to melt into one American.

Europe has slowly learned to live with their neighbours and small minorites within borders and for the most part those small minorities respected the law of the land.
But one culture has to be dominant. Because that one writes the secular laws and the rest must follow it. Total assimilation is not really needed for this to work.

I do agree but it seems like the drive has been to make European nations as homogeneous possible.

[Betonov]

I do agree but it seems like the drive has been to make European nations as homogeneous possible.

For the most part, the open borders, death of nationalism with a rise of the tourist and a common outside enemy (USSR), western Europe homogenised by itself. Laws that govern France are not that different from laws in Slovenia. And any law in France wouldn't bother a Slovene a bit.
What is a Slovene different from a Frenchman apart that we have one third of their wages. We know at least 2 foreign languages, drive worse, preffer more activer hollidays and we like saltier food. 100 years ago when nationalism was highest the difference was still the same except we didn't speak no foreign languages.
We were divided politically, not so much culturally. One more reasons why the enclaves in the US were going along together nicely. They were riots but in Europe we call if football aftermatch.

[Tchocky]

Well said.

No it isn't. Stop being wrong.

[Skybird]

The claimed precedence that Merkel want Germans and Europe to follow:

LINK: Sweden's ugly integration problem (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-debate/swedens-ugly-immigration-problem/article26338254/)


So how are things working out in the most immigration-friendly country on the planet?
Not so well, says Tino Sanandaji. Mr. Sanandaji is himself an immigrant, a Kurdish-Swedish economist who was born in Iran and moved to Sweden when he was 10. He has a doctorate in economics from the University of Chicago and specializes in immigration issues. This week I spoke with him by Skype.
“There has been a lack of integration among non-European refugees,” he told me. Forty-eight per cent of immigrants of working age don’t work, he said. Even after 15 years in Sweden, their employment rates reach only about 60 per cent. Sweden has the biggest employment gap in Europe between natives and non-natives.
In Sweden, where equality is revered, inequality is now entrenched. Forty-two per cent of the long-term unemployed are immigrants, Mr. Sanandaji said. Fifty-eight per cent of welfare payments go to immigrants. Forty-five per cent of children with low test scores are immigrants. Immigrants on average earn less than 40 per cent of Swedes. The majority of people charged with murder, rape and robbery are either first- or second-generation immigrants. “Since the 1980s, Sweden has had the largest increase in inequality of any country in the OECD,” Mr. Sanandaji said.
It’s not for lack of trying. Sweden is tops in Europe for its immigration efforts. Nor is it the newcomers’ fault. Sweden’s labour market is highly skills-intensive, and even low-skilled Swedes can’t get work. “So what chance is there for a 40-year-old woman from Africa?” Mr. Sandaji wondered.
Sweden’s fantasy is that if you socialize the children of immigrants and refugees correctly, they’ll grow up to be just like native Swedes. But it hasn’t worked out that way. Much of the second generation lives in nice Swedish welfare ghettos. The social strains – white flight, a general decline in trust – are growing worse. The immigrant-heavy city of Malmo (http://uk.reuters.com/article/2015/08/09/uk-sweden-grenades-idUKKCN0QE09F20150809), just across the bridge from Denmark, is an economic and social basket case.
In Germany, the first city has send out letters this week to renters of public housing and tells them that the city is cancelling their tenancy agreement. They must leave and their flats are being given to foreigners instead.

Nice. You live in a flat for 15, 20 years, and then you get kicked and your flat being given to foreign asylum seekers not paying for it.

In the bordering countries to Syria, several million more Syrians now become unrestful and want to head for Germany.

And lets not be mistaken - these are no temporary guests that will leave after some years. Those from Syria - are here to stay, forever.

The supply in wealth and climate migrants wanting to enter into Europe and here: Germany, is practically unlimited.

An Germans and most others are too cowardly to speak out a loud and clear "No".

Mahlzeit.

[Rockstar]

When you say asylum seekers are getting apartments. Do you mean those who have met the criteria for asylum or those still awaiting judgment?

I know here almost all asylum seekers awaiting judgement got to see the inside of Krome Dentention Center or GITMO. There was absolutley no messing around, if they didnt meet the criteria for asylum they were repatriated the next day.

[Skybird]

When you say asylum seekers are getting apartments. Do you mean those who have met the criteria for asylum or those still awaiting judgment?

I know here almost all asylum seekers awaiting judgement got to see the inside of Krome Dentention Center or GITMO. There was absolutley no messing around, if they didnt meet the criteria for asylum they were repatriated the next day.
Its my understanding that we are talking about asylum seekers. There has been not sufficient time to have gotten their asylum procedure even started, not to mention: decided. That usually takes 6 months here (before the mass migration started to haunt us). German authorities struggle to find places for the masses still coming - the border to Austria may be closed, but that does not mean that they are no longer coming. Enforced expropriation of not fully used factory halls, private buildings and private apartments is being discussed time and again over here. In a growing number of schools, there is no sports being done anymore, for the sports halls have been requisitioned.

You see, asylum-related bureaucracy works slowly here - unintentionally, whereas in other countries like Canada and Australia they intentionally get slowed down as deterrence. Deterring them ios consider a crime against humanity in Germany, Germans demand themselves to accept just everybody , without discriminating and choosing by own needs and demands. Its our latest surrogate religion, after Eco-ism and Bio-ism and CO2-ism. The people get picked up at the border, and then immediately get seated into trains and distributed across all of Germany. The majority of them unregistered. Just to pout pressure off the border situation, and the situation in Munich where on weekends they have up to 45 thousand arriving on Saturdays+Sundays.

You see, the smile we send out to the world will eventually return to us, we think. And if not, at least we will not be called Nazis.

Well, the Swedes in Malmö thought the same. And the Brits in Bolton, Brighton and Birmingham. The Dutch in Rotterdam and the suburbs of Amsterdam. The French in Marseille, Toulouse and Paris (they have over 700 Sharia zones in France now that the police recommends non-Muslims not to go into).

Sooner or later, this endlessly repeated experiment will show its first success. We only need to try often enough. :88)

Three or four weeks ago there was a couple from africa, I think Nigeria but I am not sure, that complained about the flat given to them: a brandnew 3-room appartment in a regular civil housing object, with kitchen. They attacked the authorities for not adequately caring for them, and that the flat is too small from them (no children). What do you think happened? The German authorities bend over, pulled down their pants, apologized, found an even bigger flat, kicked the migrant family already placed there out, and gave it to the two new cuties that now enrich our cultural diversity.

They must live in palaces througout Nigeria.

[Tchocky]

Well, the Swedes in Malmö thought the same. And the Brits in Bolton, Brighton and Birmingham. The Dutch in Rotterdam and the suburbs of Amsterdam. The French in Marseille, Toulouse and Paris (they have over 700 Sharia zones in France now that the police recommends non-Muslims not to go into).


Ugh.

A source for this load of rubbish please.

Three or four weeks ago there was a couple from africa, I think Nigeria but I am not sure, that complained about the flat given to them: a brandnew 3-room appartment in a regular civil housing object, with kitchen. They attacked the authorities for not adequately caring for them, and that the flat is too small from them (no children). What do you think happened? The German authorities bend over, pulled down their pants, apologized, found an even bigger flat, kicked the migrant family already placed there out, and gave it to the two new cuties that now enrich our cultural diversity.

They must live in palaces througout Nigeria.

Anecdotal.

Get over it.

[Tchocky]

I want to approve, Oberon.

But white text with black borders over a black and white striped shirt!

Haven't even had coffee yet!

[Rockstar]

So then if my math is correct it should take three weeks to solve the crisis if just Austria's left wing liberal party keeps donating. Oh and who exactley gets to determine what is the truth? :O:

[Skybird]

On Sweden again.

2014: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_znVnOizU8

2010: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZtc2ma2GEQ

The example we must follow. We must.

The mayor or Nierheim, the city in Germany I mentioned where ordinary people get kicked from their flats to put asylum seekers in them, said that he is not the only nor the first one doing so, but other cities as well. Further research showed me that this is right, it is being practiced on a concealed level (not tp worry the population) in practically every federal state already. Next month, the parliaments of Berlin, Hamburg, Brandenburg, Rheinland-Pfalz, Northrhine-Westfalia and I think Lower Saxony will pass new legislation that makes expropriation easier and allow the state syndicate to rob property that is not theirs from private and corporate holders.

And if this is not lunacy enough on display already: many Germans even like this (except the victims of this state-driven plundering). The syndicate says that it is only "temporary", but if I take your money or car and use it, and tell you that I am not stealing it and that I am not a theft because at one not fixed and not defined day in the future I maybe will give it bad, you wouldn't buy the BS Im talking. I would be a robber, plain and simple.

After WWII, this was done, too. But the desaster back then was caused by Germans. Today, we are being held responsible for the failure of the EU, and the cultural collapse that nobody else is responsible for than the centuries-long inhabitants of these foreign countries themselves, their culture and ideology that they followed since ages and that. Their failure, their ruinous and corrupt culture - but now our penalty fee. Thank you.

Either something is mine, or it is not. You cant take it and use it as if it were yours while violating my will to not leaving it to you all voluntarily and all by my own decision. But hey, socialism has its loudest party running since ever currently. Living on tick and stealing from those who have more than yourself, is hip. You get Nobel Prizes rewarded if finding excuses for why to do it.


I wonder whether in 10 or 15 years the Swedes will be seen still as the more stupid ones than the Germans - or just as the ones who turned insane earlier. We are gaining ground on their lead in the lunacy race quite quickly.

[Tchocky]

Ugh.

The case in Nieheim is not nearly as clear cut as you're making it look.

Imagine my surprise.

It's social housing owned by the state - which has a "legitimate interest" clause for revocation of the lease. The order doesn't go into effect until May 2016. The tenant has until that time to appeal

This is more notice than you would get from a private landlord.

It's not a happy story by any means, but it's legal and much less apocalyptic than you're making it out to be.


I see there are still no sources on those SEVEN HUNDRED NO GO SHARIA ZONES in France.

It's almost like you're making things up as you go along.

[Betonov]

Tchocky, I think it's time we also start pulling facts out of our arses.

and you know it's time to retire when the Pope has more common sense than half of GT

[Dowly]

FOX News mistakes "sensitive urban zone" as muslim controlled zone.
FOX News apologizes for the mistake.

*9 Months Later...*

Skybird still doesn't get it.

[Betonov]

There's a muslim no-go zone near where I live.
It's in the back of the Albanian bakery where I shop for kebab. It even has a sign ''nezaposlenim vstop prepovedan (http://www.mysafetysign.com/img/lg/S/Keep-Out-Authorized-Personnel-Sign-S-2438.gif)'' :o

[Betonov]

No, not faschism :o
They'll close the bakery and I'll be forced to eat local ethnic food like boiled sauerkraut, blood sausage and baked chicken :wah:

[Herr-Berbunch]

I've only knowingly met one Albanian, a translator for us in Kosovo, my goodness she was beautiful. Don't think she's running a bakery now, but I could be wrong. Damn you facebook, why couldn't you have been invented years earlier. :D

[Catfish]

Xenophobia is the only answer to change! :yeah:

:haha: :rotfl2:

[Betonov]

Damn you facebook, why couldn't you have been invented years earlier. :D

Like there's internet in Albania :har:

[Betonov]

Of course there is!

They stole it from Germany. :O:

There's also a loooooot of polution down there. They stole a lot from Germany :)

[Betonov]

The internet willl not be kind to VW this year :)

[Betonov]

With the prices for a new VW, it has long ceased to be a people's car :nope:
Reichewagen more like it

[Dowly]

SSSSsssshhh...

I can't hear what Skybird says next. :stare:

[mapuc]

How much do we really know ? How much do we know about these who's fleeing ? How much do we know about their whereabouts?(Where they are really coming from)

Markus

[Catfish]

There's also a loooooot of polution down there. They stole a lot from Germany :)

US Black smokers (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Zb4hf_75CU)

[Platapus]

US Black smokers (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Zb4hf_75CU)

There are people who deliberately modify their vehicles to be able to belch out black smoke.

I believe the medical term for such people is moron.

a few weeks ago, unfortunately, I was behind one of the morons when they decided it would be ever so clever to activate the mechanism in rush hour traffic.

[Buddahaid]

They do it to annoy other drivers they find worthy. It's the smell of freedom even morons can enjoy. :dead:

[August]

a few weeks ago, unfortunately, I was behind one of the morons when they decided it would be ever so clever to activate the mechanism in rush hour traffic.

Another reason to buy a dash cam.

[Betonov]

Dash cams are illegal here. Breach of privacy of the driver in front.
But one is allowed to use his phone as navigation so I made a dash mount for the phone and use it as a dashcam.
Wont do me any good because the footage itself would be illegal but its perfect for moron shaming.

[Schroeder]

Where did he come from?
Where did he go?
Where did he come from?

Cotton Eye Joe. :yep:
I think Mapuc made a valid point as a lot of refugees are not from Syria or Iraq but claim to be as people from those country have a higher chance of getting asylum in Germany. The police and boarder protection have confiscated a lot of forged "Syrian" documents that were in the possession of people from other Arabic and African countries. So the question of what we know about the people coming to us is valid.

[Schroeder]

But at the moment we're not even figuring out where to put these people while that process goes on, because no-one wants a camp full of Muslims sitting on their front lawn. :/\\!!
Too late. I've got one of those refugee accommodations 150m from where I live and a second container village is being build 12km away.

[Jimbuna]

Too late. I've got one of those refugee accommodations 150m from where I live and a second container village is being build 12km away.

Is Merkel taking much stick in Germany for her open invitation to up to one million migrants then days later setting up border controls.?

I ask because some of the articles I've read and seen on tv are shifting the blame on much of the present EU situation at her feet.

[Schroeder]

Is Merkel taking much stick in Germany for her open invitation to up to one million migrants then days later setting up border controls.?

I ask because some of the articles I've read and seen on tv are shifting the blame on much of the present EU situation at her feet.
Difficult to answer as anti immigration statements don't get much cover in our news. I'm not sure how much support/Flak she really gets over this. I just know there are a lot of people who are less than impressed with her actions.

[Jimbuna]

Difficult to answer as anti immigration statements don't get much cover in our news. I'm not sure how much support/Flak she really gets over this. I just know there are a lot of people who are less than impressed with her actions.

That is the impression I get regarding the thought of a growing number of EU countries/politicians.

The few German national I met in Lanzarote recently were certainly scathing of her.

[August]

Dash cams are illegal here. Breach of privacy of the driver in front.

That's odd. It's only recording what you and everyone else behind him can see with your own eyes. Are there similar restrictions for security cameras on buildings?

But one is allowed to use his phone as navigation so I made a dash mount for the phone and use it as a dashcam. Wont do me any good because the footage itself would be illegal but its perfect for moron shaming.

What if you had somehow recorded footage of a major crime?

[Betonov]

Licence plate number is seen as ones own personal identity despite everyone around you can see it and it's used to identify the owner of the vehicle. One of those circular laws we inherited from Yugoslavia. Old Titos farts making laws about using technology.

Security cameras on buildings must not face residential areas or private property unless specifically allowed by the owner of said property. No restrictions on public areas.

When it comes to a major crime footage, I think that the court will rule if such a footage can be taken as evidence.

It's also one of those laws that are not enforced. At the most the cop will demand you turn it off.

[August]

Licence plate number is seen as ones own personal identity despite everyone around you can see it and it's used to identify the owner of the vehicle. One of those circular laws we inherited from Yugoslavia. Old Titos farts making laws about using technology.

Security cameras on buildings must not face residential areas or private property unless specifically allowed by the owner of said property. No restrictions on public areas.

When it comes to a major crime footage, I think that the court will rule if such a footage can be taken as evidence.

It's also one of those laws that are not enforced. At the most the cop will demand you turn it off.

Interesting. Thanks for explaining.

[Catfish]

...What if you had somehow recorded footage of a major crime?

August i think such camera footage could and would be used as circumstantial/ presumptive (?) evidence, but no one would be convicted just because of that. They would need more evidence, and a confession (without applying force, of course, then the confession would be invalid).

[em2nought]

Perfect location for German immigrant processinghttps://www.patagonicas.com/assets/expeditions/everest/_resampled/croppedimage555400-Everest3.JPG

[_dgn_]

With this problem of massive and illegal immigration in Europe, Merkel shows that she has more sympathy to these non-European people than for some EU members, like the Greeks ...

In addition, it's surprising to see Viktor Orban "condemned" for the application by his country of the Schengen agreements : freedom of movement inside for the UE members, and serious checks on the UE borders.

On this point, fortunately, Bavaria and its CSU government seems to better take reality into account.

Cheers.

[HunterICX]

Last Week Tonight with John Oliver: Migrants and Refugees

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umqvYhb3wf4

[Skybird]

http://www11.pic-upload.de/29.09.15/gkv8zy5wf6xx.jpg (http://www.pic-upload.de/view-28440001/Unbenannt.jpg.html)

[Tchocky]

So Skybird, any update on the SEVEN HUNDRED SHARIA NO-GO ZONES in France or were you making it up?

[Skybird]

German police union now demands that christian migrants and refugees must be protected from Muslim mobs hunting them in the camps, saying that both religious hostility against christians as well as serious organised crime structures by Arab clans cause more and more violence in the camps.

This is something that is old news, the mobbing of Christians happens since years in Western and Eastern refugee camps, in Northern and Southern ones - new only is that you now can read it even in the mainstream media over here, that in past years kept silent about it, and political correctness prevented the public to speak or think about it, and politicians insisted that this problem does not exist and is all made up of lies by Islamophobe xenophobes. Problems whose existence gets denied, are problems that do not exist, thats the political logic behind it.

That women also are at high risk in these camps of being mobbed, hunted and raped, no longer can be supressed, and is confirmed by the police now to be a frequent issue.

The political left of course stands ready to attribute it all to the camps' "miserable living conditions", as they claim them to be. The typical values and worldviews learned by by cultural socialisation of the offenders of course cannot have anything to do with it, since we all know and got hammered it into our heads that Islam is good, is kind, is friendly to women and means peace and liberty. To realise that Islam is all that not, but the exact opposite, would kill precious illusions, and lead to the insight that one must accept to confront it.

Meanwhile, Heinz Buschkowsky has expressed in an interview his opinion that by his experience the chance for integration of most of the newcomers is just an illusion. Many, the majority, he said, do not even want that by their cultural views. Buschkowsky is somewhat an institution over here, a socialist politician who for many years was the highly respected district mayor of Neukölln in the city of Berlin, which is a hotspot and centre of Muslim migrants in Germany, and Berlin. Not the easiest office you could hold as a mayor, I tell you. He had many critics in his own party SPD for not joining the chorus of political correctness when during his reign he told the public in open words about the failing integration and the lacking willingness of most to integrate, the total financial costs and the the economic unsustainability of sticking to the dangerous illusions about the willingness and the ability of most Muslims to integrate. He knows the stuff and numbers from first sight. Ironically, he had a very high respect especially amongst Muslim migrants - those families namely, that indeed want to integrate and put high priority on education for their children and obedience to the cultural dominance of Western and German values. Even amongst the young males whom he criticised he was kind of respected, for he did not fool them with wishy-washy weasel-talking and stupid babbling, but told them straight the do's and dont's he expected them to follow - something that he took plenty of fire for - again not from the migrants, but the Germans. See, as a German you nowaday are supposed and expected to not do this. So, he stands out a bit from the usual worthless politicians breed. Germany better listens to his experience. Only few know the matter as good as he does.

It is confusing that Germans so stubbornly refuse to listen even to integration-willing Muslims warning them of dealing softly and always defensively with Islam and Islamic demands. Cosy illusions are hard to give up. But reality sooner or later finds every fool, and cracks him open. In the past weeks we in Germany have made huge jumps towards this final revelation. And already during the time when Buschkowsky still was in office, the Berlin police has stopped to patrol certain areas in Berlin controlled by certain Muslim tribal families, and attached organised crime gangs. These areas are only entered by police now if they come in hundreds. Earlier this year, or as it end of last year, Berlin police officers admitted that they are no longer in control of these clans.

Tchocky,

you better do not waste your time demanding evidence for what you will never ever believe anyway, come what may - since you would not even believe what is right before your nose anyway, if it does not meet your expectations. Better get more practice with sticking your head into the sand - I think your butt still could send the sun a much friendlier smile, if only you stretch it a bit higher into the air. And who knows, maybe you find a precious truffle down there. You must not even share it with me, I do not like truffles.

All others can easily google it and find material from several years that already was there long before Fox earlier this year made once again a fool of itself by reporting in their typical sensationalist, stupid fashion which makes FOX so easy to recognise it as FOX, and which then rightfully exploded into their faces, as it seemed. No go zones, sharia zones, call it what you want - you find these in Stockholm, Malmö, Paris, Cologne, Berlin, Marsseille... The epidemic spreading of shariah mediators and self-proclaimed "judges" establishing de facto parallel justice structures that even foster deeds and practices that simply are an open violation of valid national laws, even constitute crimes by the penalty code, you will find,too.

Or not, if you prefer truffles over obvious truths, that is. I mean the growing anti-semitism in Europe that is the result of growing Islamic influence, pushed for by an unholy alliance of socialists, opportunistic appeasers and Islamophiles, is beine denied, too, isn't it.

[Tchocky]

So that's a no then.

I'm glad you agree that asking you to back up your fantasy with sources or evidence is a waste of time.

Seriously, if you make a numerical claim them expect to be asked for corroboration. You know how this works.

If it's so easy to find then why don't you go first.

Don't twist the narrative in other directions - you stated there are 700 no-go "sharia zones" in France. Let's have the evidence.

Otherwise, you know, stop.

It's just hot air.

[Tchocky]

And try to avoid this "head in the sand" nonsense.

I asked you a direct question, several times.

[mapuc]

So Skybird, any update on the SEVEN HUNDRED SHARIA NO-GO ZONES in France or were you making it up?

I don't know about France or other plases than, Denmark and Sweden

In Denmark it is areas around Nørrebro, Voldsmose, Tingbjerg, where the police don't go, if it isn't absolutely necessary and the fire brigade only enter the area, when the police have secured the area-otherwise the firemen will most highly be met by stone throwing at them.

In Sweden it is Rosengården(Malmö) and some place in and nearby Stockholm, Göteborg, norrköping(while writing this post I forgot the name of these suburban town.

Now and then there are article in Danish newspaper-about groups of Radical Muslim walking around in these areas in Denmark and controlling other Muslim-to see if they are dressed and behaved as Muhammed said they should do.

I don't know about France, England, Holland a.s.o

Markus

[mapuc]

Don't worry Marcus I'm sure AK81 will fix your problems for you. :yep:

They are as bad as those radical Islamist.

Forgot something in my last post.

Even though these young men, who are radical in their Muslim belief and who walks around in surburban town to Copenhagen like Nørrebro to controll other Muslims, now and then, they have sometimes been met by swearing words from other Muslims

These radical Muslim can be countet on one hand and those who dares to speak against them can also be countet on one hand.
What about the other 90-95 % of the Muslim population in Denmark ?

I guess they do not dare to speak free.

Markus

[mapuc]

yesterday I saw a link to a story about Germany

The story was about the authorities who was thinking of starting to remove children from parents who have or had been postet anti-islamic on FB or other forums

I didn't read it, ´cause I refuse to believe its true.

Markus

[Rockstar]

So is the arguement about the number of no go zones or wether or not such things exist?

Video below is from a Hungarian news source. At 10:22 a french authority is asked if such things exist and she says no. However listen to what she says afterwards

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6yzhGtL5NN4

In October 2011, a 2,200-page report, "Banlieue de la République" (Suburbs of the Republic) found that Seine-Saint-Denis and other Parisian suburbs are becoming "separate Islamic societies" cut off from the French state and where Islamic Sharia law is rapidly displacing French civil law. The report — which was commissioned by the influential French think tank, L'Institut Montaigne — was directed by Gilles Kepel, a highly respected political scientist and specialist in Islam, together with five other French researchers.

The authors of the report showed that France — which now has 6.5 million Muslims (the largest Muslim population in European Union) — is on the brink of a major social explosion because of the failure of Muslims to integrate into French society.

The report also showed how the problem is being exacerbated by radical Muslim preachers, who are promoting the social marginalization of Muslim immigrants in order to create a parallel Muslim society in France that is ruled by Sharia law.

Fabrice Balanche, a well-known French Islam scholar who teaches at the University of Lyon, recently told Radio Télévision Suisse: "You have territories in France such as Roubaix, such as northern Marseille, where police will not step foot, where the authority of state is completely absent, where mini Islamic states have been formed

French writer and political journalist Éric Zemmour recently told BFM TV: "There are places in France today, especially in the suburbs, where it is not really in France. Salafi Islamists are Islamizing some neighborhoods and some suburbs. In these neighborhoods, it's not France, it's an Islamic republic." In a separate interview, Zemmour — whose latest book is entitled, "The French Suicide" — says multiculturalism and the reign of politically correct speech is destroying the country.

[Skybird]

Save your time, Rockstar, whatever you say it just will not be believed. The reason why I refuse to play the game by Tchocky'S or Oberon'S rules any longer is that all these and other things have been debated so often already in past years, and indications, arguments, links given then.

Its just that a debate of Islamic migration is not wanted, or criticism of Islam, thats why with merciless stubborness the same repetitious questiosn and de,mands get set up again and again and again - so that time is beig n spend with focussing on these instead of the matter that lies at the core of it. It is deception by distraction.

Don't take the bait. " 'Madness', if becoming pandemic, is then named 'reason'. " (Oskar Panizza).

Its not just about france. These zones, may you call them shjaria zones ore no go zones, exist across Europe now, in metropoles and areas with strong Muslim communities. Often you have a strong crime rate for which organised Muslim gan gs are responsible, and a strong exodus of Jews. You see thes ething shapüpening in Sweden, Holland, England, Germany, France, and it seems it becomes an issue in parts of Spain, too. I know for certain that in Berlin the polcie does not patrol and does not enter certain areas anymore since longer as long as they do not go in by hundreds. The problem there is Afghan and Pakistan tribal families counting by hundreds of gang members as well.

What I said about parallel Sharia justice structures eroding the monopole of the state-given law, whereever these things are "tolerated" by ignorrant people,also is true.

It cannot be, however, what should not be. Problem solved. Easy logic from simple minds.

Since Tchocky has not learned how to use Google, instead made a high wave over nothing to score a cheap rhetorical victory point, here is some links from page one of my results that everybody could have oh so easily done himself. However, the claim I raised is known to me already since years from so many different media and book sources that I originally referred to it by memory only.

http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/5128/france-no-go-zones

http://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2015/01/22/inside-frances-sharia-no-go-zones/

Just btw, a high ranking German SPD party official with Turkish roots, one from the top brass of their staff, currently visits Turkey and said that he hopes in 2030 Germany will have a Muslima as chancellor. Well, considering what ruthless brutal opportunists career politicians usually are, I would not be surprised. Even without it, Islam is on march over here. Last week I read a piece on that like America cannot prevent to turn more Catholic due to its massive Latin American migrant influx, and that this will erode the voter basis of the traditional Republicans, Europe will turn Islamic since its Latin American migrant reservoir is North Africa and the Middle East.

Demography as a weapon. It succeeds where military tools and tactics in the past have failed.

[mapuc]

There is two type of our own Western people when it comes to Islam and the debate

1. Those who say every Muslim(100 %) Is radical, there is no such thing as a moderate Muslim

2. Those who say Every Muslim is a loving person and Islam is the religion of peace and if there should be some radical Muslim, it is a production of the imagination of the people on the right wing or they are a product of the Western politics in those areas(Middle east, North Africa)

Who is suffering from this ongoing debate ?? those moderate Muslim.

Markus

[mapuc]

Well there are three types.

3. Those who knows there are radical in every politic, religious a.s.o and they has be to taken care of.

Was little to fast.

And that most of them are like you and me, moderate in their belief and the way they behave.
Markus

[Rockstar]

It doesnt matter if you're muslim or one of santas elves. People have a tendancy to gather according to their faiths, laws, ideas, race, history, traditions, ancestory, etc etc. Why do you think such a small tract of land like Europe even after hundreds of centuries still has so many tiny nations within each with their own language?

Forcing open borders, multi-culturalism, tolerance, cats and dogs to sing kumbiya all day long at this level of immigration runs contrary to human nature and history. When immigrants have a majority at any level they no longer have a need to assimilate. It is you who will need to assimilate.

Just like this white trash gringo had too when he lived in Miami. :O: It was easy though because those Columbian girls were hot hot hot.

[HunterICX]

Save your time, Rockstar, whatever you say it just will not be believed.


That's because you're changing the facts so it'll fit that bigoted narrow mind with the storage capacity of a 8 inch floppy disk.

The reason why I refuse to play the game by Tchocky'S or Oberon'S rules any longer is that all these and other things have been debated so often already in past years, and indications, arguments, links given then.

The only one playing a game is you it's the age old game of ''You're all wrong, I'm Right. I know it all, you know nothing'' Yet all you had to show for where questionable arguments, bigoted articles that fits your mindset and when questioned, shown wrong or not entirely true by a couple of others you simply swiped it as not worth your time.


Since Tchocky has not learned how to use Google, instead made a high wave over nothing to score a cheap rhetorical victory point, here is some links from page one of my results that everybody could have oh so easily done himself. However, the claim I raised is known to me already since years from so many different media and book sources that I originally referred to it by memory only.

http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/5128/france-no-go-zones

http://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2015/01/22/inside-frances-sharia-no-go-zones/



Tchocky? Sorry the joke is on you.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/nogozones.asp

Claim: A number of localities in the United States, France, and Britain are considered Muslim "no-go zones" (operating under Sharia Law) where local laws are not applicable.
-
False

The multifaceted rumor has several aspects spanning multiple countries: among areas rumored to be partially under de facto Islamic law are Birmingham, England; a small Muslim enclave (commonly known as Islamberg) within Hancock, New York; Dearborn, Michigan; and more than 750 unspecified areas in and around Paris and elsewhere in France. The confusion Araud expressed in response to Emerson's statements (before the Fox News segment) appeared to stem from translation confusion over what are known as "zones urbaines sensibles (http://sig.ville.gouv.fr/Atlas/ZUS/)" (ZUS) or "sensitive urban zones (http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopic-g187147-i14-k890234-No_go_zones_in_France-Paris_Ile_de_France.html)" in France. While some pockets of citizenry (including high-density Muslim populations) in France have indeed been identified as ZUS, and the term is not a designator for large populations of Muslims. Rather, the highlighted areas are ones that have been afflicted with issues such as crime, poverty, unemployment, and blight and are therefore targeted for urban renewal (http://www.economie.grandlyon.com/zones-urbaines-sensibles-zus-lyon.45.0.html) initiatives.And for a bit fun when it comes to asking the ones claiming that there are sharia no go zones.

http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2015/01/paris-mayor-to-sue-fox-over-no-go-zone-comments/384656/

Here's what Jindal said, via CNN (http://www.cnn.com/2015/01/19/politics/jindal-no-go-zones-london/):In the West, non-assimilationist Muslims establish enclaves and carry out as much of Sharia law as they can without regard for the laws of the democratic countries which provided them a new home ....
It is startling to think that any country would allow, even unofficially, for a so called "no-go zone." The idea that a free country would allow for specific areas of its country to operate in an autonomous way that is not free and is in direct opposition to its laws is hard to fathom.
When CNN reporter Max Foster pressed him on this passage after the speech, Jindal couldn't name any specific instances. But he pointed to a report in the famously unreliable tabloid Daily Mail, and couched his refusal to back down as bold truth-telling: "I think that the radical Left absolutely wants to pretend like this problem is not here. Pretending it's not here won't make it go away."

[Betonov]

There I was, London, summer of 2014, East End.
Whitechapel is now a muslim no go zone. People in hijabs, robes and those funny little hats patrol the streets and enforce sharia. No police in sight.
I make a mistake and go into a pub run by native English people full of native English people. After 2 pints of lager I step outside and a sharia patrol is waiting for me. They knock me to the ground, tell me that Allah forbids drinking alcohol and the cut my head off....

Nah, I was surounded by muslims and one of them opened a door for me and another tried to sell me not so fresh produce. Playing tourist is a lot more fun when your brain si not completely filled with dribble, lies and paranoid inventions of fear mongerers trying to score cheap points among the naive masses.

[Skybird]

There is two type of our own Western people when it comes to Islam and the debate

1. Those who say every Muslim(100 %) Is radical, there is no such thing as a moderate Muslim

2. Those who say Every Muslim is a loving person and Islam is the religion of peace and if there should be some radical Muslim, it is a production of the imagination of the people on the right wing or they are a product of the Western politics in those areas(Middle east, North Africa)

Who is suffering from this ongoing debate ?? those moderate Muslim.

Markus
70 years ago, by far not every German citizen had strangled at least one Jew by his own hands. Most did not. Many even were kind, polite. Even hid Jews and helped them to escape.

Nevertheless German Nazism was a big problem for the world, while Hitler still remained to be Hitler, the hate speeches of Goebbles remained to be the hate speeches of Goebbels, and the content of the book Mein Kampf remained to be the content of the book Mein Kampf. And who would argue that they did not change the world for the worse? Or was it all just a bad misunderstanding, is it all just a conspiracy to blame all guilt on the humanitarian, tolerant, peace-loving Nazis while the crimes of the dicatorship and horrors of the camps were not basing on the ideology of the Nazis, but the Nazissis who abused and hijacked good Nazism and gave it a bad reputation, undeserved? I mean, the word Nationalsozialismus includes the word "sozial"- how could that be of any evil, eh? Or are you no socially feeling person, mapuc?

;)

Some things are not possible to imagine, mapuc. There is no such thing like a humanitarian Stalinism. Or a liberal Nazism. A racism that propagates ewquality and multiculturalism. Because Stalinism is Stalinism, Nazism is Nazism, and racism is racism. There are no moderate, reformed, "humanitarianised" formats of these imaginable. It just makes no sense.

Muhammad was a warmonger, a conquerer, a desert bandit and predator, a warlord and massmurderer. What kind of peaceful ideology would anybody expect from such a sick person with such a worrysome biography...???

Or would we consider to award Stalin the peace Nobel award nowadays...???

[Nippelspanner]

Or would we consider to award Stalin the peace Nobel award nowadays...???
Why not?
We live in a world where a U.S. President received one.
The same one who didn't close Guantanamo, the same one who approved the use of CIA black sites on foreign soil to detain and torture people - sorry, sorry, "sand ******s" who are all super guilty no doubt(!) - and who conducted/signed/approved/ordered a ton of illegal drone strikes in countries the US isn't at war with and who do not appreciate these acts of war, killing more civilians (but at least no US civilians, so who cares?) than legit and confirmed targets.

So by thinking of that... what value does this price still have these days?
Give it to Stalin, Hitler, Mao, ... all of them - it just blends in perfectly with the reality of mankind.

Sorry for OT.

[August]

The thing is, according to 'Give Stalin a Nobel Prize' up there, they are guilty by association, by being practicing Muslims. :03:

Talk about guilt by association, Skybirds anti-Muslim opinions seem to somehow translate into an obscenely worded rant against the US. :hmmm:

[Skybird]

Why not?
We live in a world where a U.S. President received one.
The same one who didn't close Guantanamo, the same one who approved the use of CIA black sites on foreign soil to detain and torture people - sorry, sorry, "sand ******s" who are all super guilty no doubt(!) - and who conducted/signed/approved/ordered a ton of illegal drone strikes in countries the US isn't at war with and who do not appreciate these acts of war, killing more civilians (but at least no US civilians, so who cares?) than legit and confirmed targets.

So by thinking of that... what value does this price still have these days?
Give it to Stalin, Hitler, Mao, ... all of them - it just blends in perfectly with the reality of mankind.

Sorry for OT.
Comparing Obama to Stalin really pushes it too far, in all regards. And I am really no fan of Obama.

The Nobel Peace Prize is a derailed, worthless and completely hijacked thing that has no connection to the founder's intent, and instead of being an award for achievements by Nobel's criteria now is a tool to actively manipulate events and figures towards opportunistically wanted outcomes of any kind. Only precondition that must be fulfilled is that the cause has a sufficiently noisy lobby propagating it. And there are names on the list of winners with whom I would not wish to be mentioned in one breath or sentence.

One could as well give the Oscar for the best movie of the year to a chef and for a meal he has not even prepared, hoping that the award will make him to cook it in the way one wants him to. Vegan, Bio and ecologically aware, of course.

[mapuc]

@ Skybird

I thought you knew that only on the outside every German was a Nazist

On the inside, only a few, (don't know how many percent it was), was 100 % nazist. The rest didn't dare to speak against Hitler and his party, some of them did. Many of them was caught and sentence to death for this.

Markus

[Skybird]

Are you sure you really understood what I said, mapuc? I am no sure of that at all. ;)

[ikalugin]

(Please read the pictures carefully before posting.)

[Betonov]

Slovene parliament passed the law to give the army temporary policing powers to augment the police at the border.

This does not mean that tanks will block the border and SS patrols will overrun my village.
It means that the army is going to take in some of the guard and administration duties at the border crossing and bring in the much needed logistic in. The police don't have trucks, buses and portable kitchens, the army does.

[Rockstar]

You should demand Merkel and that do gooder in the U.K. to supplement the cost of border security and sheltering refugees. :D.

[Betonov]

Since we're Schengen frontier I believe we already do get ''guard funds'' from Brussels.


120 refugees managed to reach Jesenice, my birthplace not far from where I live and with a sizeable muslim Bosnian population.
The Slovene inhabitants thought the world was coming to an end, the Bosnians remarked that if 3 more groups of 120 of them arrive, it will be enough to have a small Bosnian wedding

[Jimbuna]

The first migrants to land on British sovereign territory.

A number of boats carrying dozens of migrants, including children, have landed at the RAF base at Akrotiri in Cyprus, the Ministry of Defence says.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34590635

[Betonov]

Sadly, in a situation like this the army are the only ones who have the resources to deal with such a mass of humanity. Still, at least Slovenia hasn't gone full Donald Trump like Hungary has, and the restriction on how many cross per day is only because Austria has said it can only take a set amount. It's just working out the backlog on the Croatian side of the border that's the problem.


The police were never trained and equiped to run long tasks outside their precinct. But laws still apply and the army can't be sent anywhere without the parliament and president sending them out. At least the cops will be relieved now. They were working 12 hour shifts, eating sandwiches and sleeping in cars. At least the army can bring a kitchen and heated tents with them.


And someone has their priorities straight :doh:
http://i.imgur.com/9rMoA9e.jpg

[Torplexed]

And someone has their priorities straight :doh:
http://i.imgur.com/9rMoA9e.jpg

Well, you may have heard of Sufi Islam. This is a lesser known sect called Selfie Islam. :O:

[Skybird]

Leaked emails from the government of one German state reveal that the leaderships have ordered the police to hide from media and public the number of incidents and how often police gets called to refugee and migrant registraiton centers. And that is very often.

The number of rapes and young women in camps suddenly beign truamatised and pregnant, according to various sources amongst the helpers network have"exploded". Also, mobbiong against Christians is rule of the da yin the majoirt y<of these camps.

Arab clans maintaining organised crime structures in germany, have infiltrated the camps and there confront clan structures of gangster amongst the newcomers.

Another leaked paper that apparently is from the German federal government reveals that the government seems to know that already right now the number of 1 million arrivals already has been topped, but hides that from the public. The closed border does not stop anyone, they simply evade and bypass the control posts.

Parts of the Merkelian party is revolting against her. Yesterday a letter by several hundred mayors has been reprinted by the media, saying that propaganda paroles help nothing and that the communities are unable to deal witht he situations.

In some extreme cases, camps have been build in villages where now the numerical relation between local population and refugees and migrants is 1:10.

Several non-governmental teams and experts have done their own cost calculation on the issue. One that was published last week corrected the costs per head, per year, upwards by 50%, and also calculated the follow-up costs due to the immense police operations, logistic efforts, and raised security operations, social wellfare costs, and later fincial stress from refugees who show to be unable to be put out on the labour market (which is by far the majority). Per million per year the study showed a hopping 36 billion.

So far nobody dared to mention that all refugees allowed to stay have a legal right to call in further family members of theirs: wives, children namely. In the next three years this probably will multiply the numbers of those who came by several factors.

The federal govenment had to confirm reports that by now already "hunbdreds of schools" do not run sports lessons anymore, since the gyms have been confiscated.

Several states have implemented new laws allowing the expropriation of property and buildings easier and faster than before, some states limit this to business and companies (which does not make it any less criminal and tyrannical), but some also include private/living housing. In all these states it already is being practiced.

The global area from which people have started to move to Europe (means: Germany) has widened, in Africa it now coivers areas in the West and centre that until recently had almost no migration movement towards there. The reason given by people is alwsays the same: Merkel, Germany, the friendly invitation by the Germans andf their promise to the world that at no costs asylum will be limited.

It will be limited sooner or later, but the major share of the damage already is done. We should have thrown all that money after the Greeks instead.

Both on German national as well as EU levels, special refugee taxes for the citizens get discussed. The German government has ruled that out, but that is lip confessions only, and no matter how the pay for this madness: the final bill always gets presented to the German citizens, directly or indirectly, in hidden or even in unhidden numbers.

Even some green mayors now revolt against the official line of their party'S national leadership.

My old parents, nboth around their 70s, last week got molested (angepöbelt) by refugees from a small container building 300m away from the appartment house where they live. Its the seocnd time, the first time was verbal aggressiveness "only". That scum had luck I was not there, I am still capable to bring people down in no time when being needed. Now even by own biographic example its not just all "clichés" and "xenophobia" for us. I am furious about this event. I am as furious about political and ideological azzholes denying that these things happen, and not rarely. Local villagers complain about security eroding there and the place at night being very noisy, men shouting, and women yelling, sometimes seem to get beaten.

Its so good to have them with us.

Is this what we are being told about that we owe to it, to them? Is this what we should consider our cultural enrichment, our rescue from our socialist debts-raising-frenzies, the solution to our demographic decline?

BTW, the implicit debts of the German state are several hundred percent of the yearly national GDP. Its a relief to know that we have do not really own any money to pay for all this, and do it all on tick and even more debt-raising. That way, no real wealth gets wasted on this collective lunacy. :88)

Or is it?

A wise man of the last century saying that "Schulden sind vorgezogener Konsum, der in der Zukunft ausfällt", just must not be listend to. That helps. - Sure.

It must help. Now that China and Brazil fumble and German exports being directly affected from that.Does anyone know who will pay for the Euro, for Greece and other countries, the EU, and now this mass migration experiment, when Germany falters? Who even would be capable? - You can ignore reality, but you cannot ignore the consequences of ignoring reality.

[ikalugin]

I thought up a most devious plan.
1) rent large container ships (180+k units).
2) send a message promising safe passage to Germany for free from ME and/or Africa.
3) load those up with refugees and their stuff/materials.
4) have refugees build simple rafts (so they could get through those 12 miles of territorial waters) while in transit.
5) offload the refugees just outside German territorial waters (preferably with favorable currents brining the rafts ashore).
6) ???
7) Profit!

[Betonov]

You really like container ships, don't you :O:

[ikalugin]

LASH would be even better, as it has docking fascilities to launch rafts from.

[ikalugin]

Except if I fly the flag of some Navy and thus become extraterritorial object.

Anywhere I could read about that EU legislation?

[Betonov]

Even then.
If you're smuggleng even the US flag wont help you.

You need to make the boat pass safety regulations, charge them for transport, issue receipts and become a cruise company.

[ikalugin]

Thanks.

[Rockstar]

Leaked emails from the government of one German state reveal that the leaderships have ordered the police to hide from media and public the number of incidents and how often police gets called to refugee and migrant registraiton centers. And that is very often.

The number of rapes and young women in camps suddenly beign truamatised and pregnant, according to various sources amongst the helpers network have"exploded". Also, mobbiong against Christians is rule of the da yin the majoirt y<of these camps.

Arab clans maintaining organised crime structures in germany, have infiltrated the camps and there confront clan structures of gangster amongst the newcomers.

Another leaked paper that apparently is from the German federal government reveals that the government seems to know that already right now the number of 1 million arrivals already has been topped, but hides that from the public. The closed border does not stop anyone, they simply evade and bypass the control posts.

Parts of the Merkelian party is revolting against her. Yesterday a letter by several hundred mayors has been reprinted by the media, saying that propaganda paroles help nothing and that the communities are unable to deal witht he situations.

In some extreme cases, camps have been build in villages where now the numerical relation between local population and refugees and migrants is 1:10.

Several non-governmental teams and experts have done their own cost calculation on the issue. One that was published last week corrected the costs per head, per year, upwards by 50%, and also calculated the follow-up costs due to the immense police operations, logistic efforts, and raised security operations, social wellfare costs, and later fincial stress from refugees who show to be unable to be put out on the labour market (which is by far the majority). Per million per year the study showed a hopping 36 billion.

So far nobody dared to mention that all refugees allowed to stay have a legal right to call in further family members of theirs: wives, children namely. In the next three years this probably will multiply the numbers of those who came by several factors.

The federal govenment had to confirm reports that by now already "hunbdreds of schools" do not run sports lessons anymore, since the gyms have been confiscated.

Several states have implemented new laws allowing the expropriation of property and buildings easier and faster than before, some states limit this to business and companies (which does not make it any less criminal and tyrannical), but some also include private/living housing. In all these states it already is being practiced.

The global area from which people have started to move to Europe (means: Germany) has widened, in Africa it now coivers areas in the West and centre that until recently had almost no migration movement towards there. The reason given by people is alwsays the same: Merkel, Germany, the friendly invitation by the Germans andf their promise to the world that at no costs asylum will be limited.

It will be limited sooner or later, but the major share of the damage already is done. We should have thrown all that money after the Greeks instead.

Both on German national as well as EU levels, special refugee taxes for the citizens get discussed. The German government has ruled that out, but that is lip confessions only, and no matter how the pay for this madness: the final bill always gets presented to the German citizens, directly or indirectly, in hidden or even in unhidden numbers.

Even some green mayors now revolt against the official line of their party'S national leadership.

My old parents, nboth around their 70s, last week got molested (angepöbelt) by refugees from a small container building 300m away from the appartment house where they live. Its the seocnd time, the first time was verbal aggressiveness "only". That scum had luck I was not there, I am still capable to bring people down in no time when being needed. Now even by own biographic example its not just all "clichés" and "xenophobia" for us. I am furious about this event. I am as furious about political and ideological azzholes denying that these things happen, and not rarely. Local villagers complain about security eroding there and the place at night being very noisy, men shouting, and women yelling, sometimes seem to get beaten.




Sounds like Miami 1980. Florida crackers were freaking out over the influx of migrants entering the peninsula many eventually moved out. Migrants were moved into overcrowded make shift dentention camps and when things got stagnent they got a cocky and rioted. Gangs were established, crime skyrocketed, Miami changed. Things like that are going to happen when such vast numbers of people are gathered together.

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/gl9OddN29Z4/hqdefault.jpg

Like I said Sky plenty of room over here. :D
41% of the people in Wisconsin are of Teutonic stock. Its said “Germanism, socialism and beer makes Milwaukee different," I was stationed there for several years and though Im not sure what Octoberfest is like in Germany, its a big event Milwaukee. Lots of beer, women and oom-pah music.:woot:

[Skybird]

^Thanks! ;)

The below linked text is unfortunately in German, at the end it says it was translated form the English, but I did not find the original, maybe it was a personal communication between her and the translator. And I am not sure what use bot-translators really have for those sitting at the receiving end of this lingual abuse. :)

The author is a Lebanese journalist writing for a French-speaking Lebanese newspaper, but also knowing Germany very well. What she has to tell Germans as a warning, and how she explains why Germans tick so idiotically like they do, is spot on and really goes for the mental roots: Moral supremacism. If we are the guilty ones and if we must feel ashamed for the past, then the German perfectionists that we are must demonstrate the world that nobody can feel as perfectly guilty and feel as perfectly ashamed as we can. And by that we claim moral superiority in both guilt and shame. Must we not just be loved by everybody for this moral perfection of ours?

http://www.tagesspiegel.de/politik/erfahrungen-aus-dem-libanon-es-ist-unklug-so-viele-fluechtlinge-aufzunehmen/12490358.html

Patricia Khoder writes for the L’Orient-Le Jour.

[Betonov]

ugh, the focus is on Slovenia now, isn't it.

I'll try and force myself to watch the pile of manure that is Slovene media so you can be a little informed what's happening.

Right now the situation is not alarming. Incidents are, but so are at a local festival we have three times a year. The army is a welcome relief to the police and for the time being there is no sign that this is an invasion by a hostile force like the ''bar doctorates'' are trying to convince me.

[Betonov]

I blame the poor ore concentration in the Alps and the inability of the human specie to make limestone profitable.

[Rockstar]

I love Finlands approach to this. Sipila has got my vote.

In Finland, Prime Minister Juha Sipila offered to do his part to alleviate Europe's migration crisis by announcing that Muslim refugees could stay at his unused summer cottage in Kempele, a small town just 184 kilometers (114 miles) south of the Arctic Circle. Average temperatures in Kempele are below the freezing point six months out of the year and the town does not (yet) have a mosque. "I hope this becomes some kind of people's movement that will inspire many others to shoulder part of the burden in this refugee housing crisis," Sipila said on state television.

[Dowly]

I love Finlands approach to this. Sipila has got my vote.Not that well received here. The guy is a millionaire, he could do much more than offer one of his unused homes to 20 refugees and asking everyone (=those not fortunate enough to own multiple homes) to do the same.

At the very least, he could offer the house immediately for use, but for some reason it is postponed to early 2016. Interesting to see if he actually does it or if he hopes no one will remember his promise come January.

[Betonov]

OK, let's see what the media morons are selling us.

As of now there's 4000 migrants waiting at the Slovene-Austrian border.
Constant flow to the Slovene-Croatian border.
Police numbers show that about 73 000 migrants entered Slovenia and 48 000 already left the country.
Slovenia requests 10 million euros in aid and will receive a contingnet of 400 cops from the rest of the EU.

We are still here, the country still stands, unfortunately no churches have been destroyed and fortunately no mosques were built, incidents are few in between and there have been 0 beheadings or other fatalities.
But I live on a farm so I can't really confirm that half the country isn't ablaze yet.

[Jimbuna]

Conditions for the migrants are yet to get considerably worse....winter is fast approaching.

[Betonov]

Heated tents and donated winter clothing are there. But not in the number needed.
Brussels will have to jump in.

[Jimbuna]

Heated tents and donated winter clothing are there. But not in the number needed.
Brussels will have to jump in.

Brussels eh?

Heaven help the migrants then.

[Betonov]

Maybe, just maybe, things are mostly under control becasue Brussels hasn't lifted a finger yet :o

[Betonov]

Slovenia considers setting up ''technicall barriers'' on borders. Which can be anything but a fence or wall. Probably just those event fences we have on every hockey game or a police line tape. To coerce the masses into set routes, mostly to keep them in a safe zone and out of populated areas.

The Rigonce crossing is now emptied, all migrants were moved by bus or train into Sentilj center. The Croats have agreed to send trains to Dobova, where logistics is a lot better than Rigonce.

The pictures show a worrying amount of people that move in a suprisingly orderly organised fashion.
http://img.rtvslo.si/_up/upload/2015/10/28/65257226_08.jpg

No straglers, no ''looting parties'', no assualts... Some incidents between individuals, expected in a large group of people, incidents cooled down by the migrants themselves before the police has to intervene.

http://img.rtvslo.si/_up/upload/2015/10/28/65257222_05.jpg

http://img.rtvslo.si/_up/upload/2015/10/28/65257214_02.jpg
Migrant registration

http://img.rtvslo.si/_up/upload/2015/10/28/65257240_17.jpg
Fear of a disease outbreak is not excluded. The biggest problem is local population infecting the migrants. It is cold and flu season here.

Croatian authorities are sending us heads up on the numbers arriving but an agreement can't be reached for a fixed number they would send from theirs centers. It seems they just fill the trains and que serra serra.

PM Cerar also stated, that if the EU does not held up it's end of the issue, we will be forced to take more firm measures. I hope that means loading up trains headed to Brussels.

Here's the interesting part. Since October 17th a 100 000 migrants arrived in Slovenia which makes one migrant per 20 Slovenes. And yet, the country does not burn.

[Betonov]

And they seem to leave behind un-natural amounts of trash :o
My god

[Fahnenbohn]

"I am proud to be European" - said the evil, racist, homophobe, white, intolerant, right-wing, hateful antisemitic supremacist Nazi oppressor

Yes, the allied second world war propaganda is still alive, and is leading Europe to destruction... :nope:

I fear this is the end of civilization in Europe.

Don't you understand ? Europa is dead.

Let's be with God, and God be with us

F.

[mapuc]

Can't say IF, Its more a when, we will see some kind of "Berlin-wall" around the border in Greece Italy etc

Hungary have made some kind of wall, Austria has made some temporary wall and now Slovenia has made some type of wall

Therefore I guess its the first step to wards such a wall.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

Markus

[Fahnenbohn]

One thing is clear for me : I don't want to live with them in my country. They are not from my culture, they are not from my race. In Europe, we have the military power to defend ourselves from invasion, but we don't have the courage to live as free men. We prefer material comfort and hobbies ... :nope:

Stop being capitalism slaves !

[Betonov]

Slovenia has made some type of wall





We made no wall.
We made barriers to easily lead migrants into control points and registration centers.
These barriers can be anything from a riot fence you see in hockey games to 2 sticks with a police tape strung in between.

[Schroeder]

Don't you understand ? Europa is dead.

I would tend to agree. The EU has finally shown it's true face. Most countries have no interest in helping out or showing solidarity with the nations that take in refugees. Solidarity is obviously supposed to be just a one way road payed for by Germany and a few others.:/\\!!
Even the most pink glassed EU fanatic should now realize that it has always just been an illusion. The hearts and minds of most have never been in it.

[mapuc]

We made no wall.
We made barriers to easily lead migrants into control points and registration centers.
These barriers can be anything from a riot fence you see in hockey games to 2 sticks with a police tape strung in between.

Sorry I should have read your post a little more and have written
''technicall barriers''

Markus

[Betonov]

the difference between a wall and technical barrier is that a child can push it away and a dog can jump over.
Without a police force behind it they're nothing more than decoration.
Or in this case a waypoint.

[Fahnenbohn]

I would tend to agree. The EU has finally shown it's true face. Most countries have no interest in helping out or showing solidarity with the nations that take in refugees. Solidarity is obviously supposed to be just a one way road payed for by Germany and a few others.:/\\!!
Even the most pink glassed EU fanatic should now realize that it has always just been an illusion. The hearts and minds of most have never been in it.

I think you didn't understand my mind. I'm not speaking about the political monster called the "EU". I'm talking about the european soul. EU has never been the true Europe, but an organisation destined to impose ultra-liberalism and US imperial policy to Europe. And this is more true than ever with the free trade agreement signed in secret with USA, against european people.

[Skybird]

There are walls to keep people in. Berlin wall.

There are walls to keep people separate that cannot live together reasonably well. Israel.

There are walls to keep others away. Troy.

Three totally different things.

The first is called prison.

The second is called pragmatic reason.

The third is called self-defence.

[Skybird]

Solidarity is always and inevitably and indispensably a voluntary quality decided on by own desire. I show it not because it is expected from me, but because I feel the personal want to show my solidarity with someone. Or not. It cannot be demanded or blackmailed or enforced - then it is no solidarity anymore, but submission to a superior force. And conformism.

What the EU demands is that other nations share the German folly and stupidity and act as irresponsible and insane as Germany does.

Enforced or blackmailed solidarity (or tolerance, for that matter), is no solidarity (or tolerance), but is force and bullying. And it never is anything else.

Merkel tried to shock-and-awe Europe into moral indignation by creating facts on the ground without asking, but by breaking national laws, international treaties, and German constitutional rules. And now realises that other nations around are big time pissed by Germany and refuse the servility she learned by the germans' example to take for granted. And I cannot criticise these other nations for being pissed. They have all reason to be.

My sympathy for Germany and the Germans, has run thin over the years and by now, in this crisis, is most extremely limited. They got what they asked for, once again. And the moral supremacism by which German romantic hysterics time and again want to lecture the world and time and again get knocked out by reality, pisses me as well. It seems we are a people of retards that just never learn the lesson reality teaches us.

Never forget, when the rational and reason-basing enlightenment "haunted" the Anglosaxon world, the Germans rejected it, so to speak. It was too clear, too harsh, too coldly intellectual, too less emotional for them. They wanted to wallow in emotions instead, feel the things, and endlessly dream about nature, life and meaning. Thats why Goethe's Werther caused so many suicides over here, but nowhere else. The era of the German "Romantik" was the result of the German way. Nice poems, sweet music, all nice and well, but incomplete if left to itself. If only we would have shared the Anglosaxon development of the rational enlightenment. I see this failure as one fundament that later served as a fertile field that racists and ultra-nationalists like infamous Sombart and others later could sow out there blood-dripping seeds on already before WWI, and that later the Nazis claimed and took as their heritage. Nothing the Nazis showed up with, was new or had grownj on their own thinking'S soil. they just took a fully readied set of concepts that already existed since decades, and only added the anti-Jew-card to the set of cards.

When needing to chose between emotion and reason, I pick reason every time. With emotions, you can make even the most peaceful man behaving like a monster. With reason, you cannot. All what politicians do today, for the most aims at the lower emotions, and the irrational sentiments, to bring the crowd on their side - but appealing to reason almost all politicians avoid at all cost - they know they cannot hold their grounds in the face of it. Reasonable thinking should become a forgotten and ignored instance, and if that does not work, it gets demonised as heresy and anti-xyz and abc-phobic. A thoughtcrime that becomes criminalised and turned into a hatecrime. In other words: it is about uniformity, about totalitarian mind control, and conformism, and obedience to a new feudal elite. The German madness of the third Reich, the German transfiguration of totalitarianism and state, the over-estimation of German lead model and German moral and German "reason", is all result from this profound irrationality rooting deep in German emotionalism and sentimentality.

We Germans are refugees from reality, that simple it is.We mistake the world that we dream to live in for the world that we live in for real.

[VipertheSniper]

With emotions, you can make even the most peaceful man behaving like a monster. With reason, you cannot.

That's total and utter bs. Have you ever heard of the thought experiment "paperclip maximizer"? Replace the general artifical intelligence with a human acting without emotion but only with reason...
I would say that human would constitute a monster.

[August]

I think you didn't understand my mind. I'm not speaking about the political monster called the "EU". I'm talking about the european soul. EU has never been the true Europe, but an organisation destined to impose ultra-liberalism and US imperial policy to Europe. And this is more true than ever with the free trade agreement signed in secret with USA, against european people.

Don't blame your perceived societal failings on us.

"European soul", what's that? I know of German Soul, French Soul, Italian, British, Dutch, etc etc but each culture is very different.

[eddie]

:agree: with August on that!

[August]

Oh, and August, I went back through his post history, you'll want this pic ready:

https://karavansara.files.wordpress.com/2013/10/nazis-i-hate-these-guys1.jpg

Enjoy. :shucks:

Thanks! That looks better than the one I have...

http://home.comcast.net/~rdsterling/pwpimages/indiannajonesihatenazis.jpg?PHPSESSID=99e719f19574 849672ccad14abeef220

[Betonov]

"European soul", what's that? I know of German Soul, French Soul, Italian, British, Dutch, etc etc but each culture is very different.

It's called tourism.
We like visiting each other. We used to do it with long marches and tank rides, now we take the plane or car.

Speaking of tourism, now would be the perfect time to visit Belgrade.
I can buy a one way ticket and join the line for a free adventure filled trek back.

[Buddahaid]

...We like visiting each other. We used to do it with long marches and tank rides, now we take the plane or car.....


Nicely put. :haha:

[Skybird]

The term "Europe" is kind of special. Grammatically it reads a singular, but by reference and meanign it necessarily and inevitably implies a plural.

That is why the EU with its uniform and centrlaised, totalitarian, neo-feudal ambition, and "Europe", are not just two totally different things, but indeed are antagonistic to each other. You cannot be for Europe while wanting a strong EU. If you want a stroing EU, you destroy what Europe is: a plural, a group, not one uniformed, collective actor imposing his will on all subordinate entities.

The "European spirit" is an utopic ideal of a choir where the voices sing some part of the partition - that one about economic cooperation and only that one, please - in synchronism, or coordination. deGaulle called it the "Europe of (economically) cooperating fatherlands". He implied a French leading role in that, I ignore that implication, and only refer to the phrase he has chosen - that is the only form of EU that I would not condemn alltogether from beginning on. What the EU now wants to be is a continental one-government-for-all with even less regional sovereignty than the American federal states have against Washington. The EU copies the model of the Sovjet example from USSR times, plain and simple.

[Bilge_Rat]

a map which really summarizes the problem well:

https://cdn.theatlantic.com/assets/media/img/posts/2015/10/RTX1QGZS-2/28ec0df27.jpg

there may be 350,000 in Europe, but 4,000,000 other refugees are in the ME, so the number of refugees in Europe could easily double or triple in the next years.

The most effective way to resolve the refugee problem is to put an end to the Syrian/ISIS crisis.

http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2015/10/syrian-civil-war-guide-isis/410746/

[Schroeder]

there may be 350,000 in Europe, but 4,000,000 other refugees are in the ME, so the number of refugees in Europe could easily double or triple in the next years.


It is estimated that Germany will have taken one million refugees by the end of the year. We sometimes get more than 10.000 refugees per day. So the numbers in that picture seem to be highly outdated and the time period stops just when the big wave started moving.:huh:

[Skybird]

That numbers are meaningless and are not even close to what really goes on. Hopelessly outdated, if ever having been true at all. See that the right graphic even reads "2011-summer 2014" - before Merkel announced her invitation to all world to come to germany.

Multiply the number of Syrian refugees and economic migrants fro other countries by several factors.

Several factors.

Then consider that those who are given permission to stay, by that get the right to bring in their families (wives, husbands, children) as well. Increase the total number of staying newcomers again by several factors, due to that.

Germany alone now is beyond the 1 million mark already - form this year alone. The government supresses the real numbers. Police got ordered to hide from the public and media the number of problems and incidents where police has to intervene in facilities as well. Since nothing gets done to stop this mess and Merkel as usuall just sits and swings the propaganda hammer and so more will come, for the following years several millions are expected: more refugees, more migrants, and families being called in by those who can stay.

Of those who cannot stay, a huge number nevertheless gets tolerated to stay for longer periods of time.

Merkel does what she always does best: nothing, babbling empty phrases, and allow problems to pile up. All the time laws, treaties and constitutional rules mean nothing to her. As always, she thinks she is above all that.

---
Some facts about Merkel that foreigners and even most Germans do not know. She has risen to high ranks in the former GDR within the youth Organisation FdJ, making it to the top ranks of it'S office for agitation and propaganda. She had a special permission to travel abroad (only loyal regime members and sympathisers got that), she was involved in spying on civil regime critics, namely Robert Havemann, and most likely therefore was spying for the StaSi, was an informant of the StaSi. She furiously engages in legal sanctions against media and journalists reporting on that, like Gregor Gysi does, a known name ove rher ein Germany, former head of the far left in the parliament and also a striong sympathiser of the SED and GDR system, also an informant for the StaSi as well (even a court ruled that he was that, he nevertheless charges everybody refering to that court sentence and makes so much noise about it in threats and actions that most people do not dare to challenge him on his spying past).

In other words: Merkel was an established and benefitting member of the regime'S inner personnel circle, enjoying privileges and opportunistically hanging her banner according to the wind'S direction. She was allowed to study at an elitist academy of the regime, and politically became an expert trained in propaganda, and agitation as they calledf it in the GDR.

She is an underhanded opportunistic fat cat and "Parteibonze" whose mind has enough room for only wo things: "herself, and her power.

The claim risen that she acts on grounds of humanitarian considerations, is not just absurd, but an offence for the many victims of the past regime and the immense collateral damage she now causes in Germany in the past ten years. Merkel never has solved anything. She just sits still and flattens everybody until he cannot breathe anymore. She does so with the EU. Wioth the Euro. With our problems with the "Energiewende". Infrastructure. And now the mass migration he has directly triggered. All for securing her in office.

Considering her for the peace nobel prize this year not only once again is a massive abuse of Nobel'S foundation, but is so absurd and so malicious that I almost wanted to spit on the TV screen when they announced that possibility first time.

A joke over here says Merkel is Erich Honnecker's late revenge on the BRD (FRG). But the point is - that is no joke. It simply is the truth. Merkel is the most successful turncoat in Europe after the collapse of the Eastern order. And most Germans have no clue of it at all.

The germans have learned nothing.

[Skybird]

It is estimated that Germany will have taken one million refugees by the end of the year. We sometimes get more than 10.000 refugees per day.
Some days ago there was the existence of an internal paper confirmed saying that the government knows that already now we are far beyond the 1 million mark.

And people scramble for Germany from more and more regions in africa that are not linked to the Syrian conflict at all.

---
If there is one thing positive coming from all this, then that it drives deep rifts into the EU and erodes its internal structures, making it hopefully more prone to collapse one day. I hope the Eastern states stay resolute. Ironically, I hope the election results in Poland also mean more troubles for the EU and Germany.

But maybe the EU's fall is less a collapse as an event, but a hard death by long-term erosion. Not so much a quick bullet through the head, but a slow death by cancer.

[Nippelspanner]

...they are not from my race.
Aaaand that matters because........? :hmmm:

[Betonov]

Aaaand that matters because........? :hmmm:

He's not black.
So he needs to, you know...





...compensate

[Nippelspanner]

He's not black.
So he needs to, you know...





...compensate
:haha:

Exactly... because you know:
Once you go black.... your parents don't talk to you anymore.

:D

[Betonov]

Forget racial purity, I have a half jew, half black inlaw from Montana that can make a burger worth having a heart attack over :)

[Hitman]

The claim risen that she acts on grounds of humanitarian considerations, is not just absurd, but an offence for the many victims of the past regime and the immense collateral damage she now causes in Germany in the past ten years. Merkel never has solved anything. She just sits still and flattens everybody until he cannot breathe anymore. She does so with the EU. Wioth the Euro. With our problems with the "Energiewende". Infrastructure. And now the mass migration he has directly triggered. All for securing her in office.

So what's her objective then? From your message I understand she is a propaganda expert ready to make the public swallow whatever she wants. Why did she in this case put the machinery to work for people to accept such a big amount of inmigrants instead of the opposite? What do you think is she trying to do by flooding germany with syrians and whoever gets there in the same wave?

[Schroeder]

So what's her objective then? From your message I understand she is a propaganda expert ready to make the public swallow whatever she wants. Why did she in this case put the machinery to work for people to accept such a big amount of inmigrants instead of the opposite? What do you think is she trying to do by flooding germany with syrians and whoever gets there in the same wave?
It might be to combat demographic changes. We have a lot of older people and only few young ones. Maybe she tries to compensate that with a flood of mainly young immigrants.:hmm2:

[Skybird]

The argument she did it for demographic reasons probably is as uncorrect as the one she did it to get in workers. The myth that all those peopole can easily be integrate dinto the job market fopr those high educaion and expert jobs that are needed, has repatedöly been rebunked by now.

She did it - for the EU, to ease off pressure accumulating at the Hungarian border, and deflecting it from pointing against EU integrity - by Germany inhaling it.

As was the case with all poltical pürojects she has touched, exactly the opposite has come out of it. Like with her Euro man agement. like her energy turnhj management. Like with her climate policy management.

She never has realistic solution, just headjumps Germany into somethign, and then sits still, and leaves it to others,and watches while thigns get worse and worse. So it is with the Euro. So it is with greece. So it is with our energy change policy. With our climate protection policy.

Her illusions and misled judgements cost us hundreds of millions and erode Germany's integrity and competitiveness. We are loosing on all fronts and have been coming under pressure everywhere.

Sop this time it is abo9ut saving the EU from getting split about migration. Well, open your eyes and see what has come out of this. Do the math on what this means for Germany in demographic changes and financial costs.

But we can sit assure of one thing. In her words: things the decides are "without alternative". Or in former Eastern block language: the party is always right.

[eddie]

A small village in Germany, Sumte, has 102 people living there. They are about to get 750 immigrants moving in. Where are they going to put them?

"Sumte has no shops, no police station, no school and only one bus passes through each day. The initial number of arrivals was, in fact, reduced to avoid straining the local sewage system and give time for new pumps to be installed."

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/german-village-of-102-braces-for-750-asylum-seekers/ar-BBmF2th

If trouble starts up, what are the locals supposed to do, when outnumbered 7-1?

[Fahnenbohn]

If trouble starts up, what are the locals supposed to do, when outnumbered 7-1?

I think we have only one solution : open concentration camps (not extermination camps, they never exist) to make them work for us. After all, they are illegally in Europe. Freedom of the human person doesn't allow them to violate national laws.

WE make the laws in OUR country. Nobody and nothing has the right to impose us all these illegal immigrants. Else, this is tyranny !

[Schroeder]

I think we have only one solution : open concentration camps (not extermination camps, they never exist) to make them work for us. After all, they are illegally in Europe. Freedom of the human person doesn't allow them to violate national laws.

WE make the laws in OUR country. Nobody and nothing has the right to impose us all these illegal immigrants. Else, this is tyranny !
They are not illegally in Germany. We have a right for asylum.:03:

[Betonov]

Camps are not a bad idea.
Locals would be isolated from the troublemaking part of the migrants and migrants would be isolated from the more fringe elements of the local population. Camps would be heated with medical facilities, give them a chance to grow their own food and would give us more time to separate the war refugees from economic migrants and to pick out engineers and doctors we'd want for our needs.
Send the economic migrants home, let the refugees weather out the storm and take in the engineers/doctors.

And house rules, rioteers will be shipped directly to ISIL, complainers will be ignored.


Meanwhile in Slovenia: they managed to build a train station near one of the entry points for easier loading and transportation to registration centers. In a few days no less. It took 2 years to fix 5km of rail line and they built a station in 2 days ?????
We need to put more refugees along some rail lines.

[Fahnenbohn]

Camps are not a bad idea.
Locals would be isolated from the troublemaking part of the migrants and migrants would be isolated from the more fringe elements of the local population. Camps would be heated with medical facilities, give them a chance to grow their own food and would give us more time to separate the war refugees from economic migrants and to pick out engineers and doctors we'd want for our needs.
Send the economic migrants home, let the refugees weather out the storm and take in the engineers/doctors.

In fact, there are very a few immigrants that are real war refugees. Most of them are economic immigrants. And that's inacceptable in both situations. Why ? Because most of them are young men. During WWII, Europeans didn't escape, but they fought with a rifle in the hands. And for economic immigrants, if they want a better way of life, they had to work in their own country to improve it, and not come in Europe to live as parasites. That's clear enough ?

And for taking the foreign engineers/doctors out of their country, I disagree. They are essential in their own country. If you take the elite of one country, so you have to welcome all the population too, else this is theft.

Oh my God, this is so incredibly stupid.

Not so stupid (see Betonov post), but yes, this is not the best solution. This is the solution if european governments don't refuse to let come all these immigrants. The solutions have to be found in the immigrants' countries.

[Betonov]

You know, if there's so little actual refugees then that means that most Syrians stayed and fought.
That means your 'noble european'' rhetoric is not that special.

[Betonov]

Not so stupid (see Betonov post), but yes, this is not the best solution. This is the solution if european governments don't refuse to let come all these immigrants. The solutions have to be found in the immigrants' countries.

I wasn't agreeing with you.
My idea is to shelter them, register them, weed out the troublemakers and then pick out those that would benefit Europe, which can go into thousands. Which means give them visas and welcome to Europe cards.

Your idea was to lock them up.

[Nippelspanner]

Not so stupid
Yes, incredibly stupid.
You were calling refugees illegal immigrants, going all nazi-ho on the whole topic (there have been no death-camps, really now?) and don't even know the laws you are trying to defend so eagerly with your hate-mongering about people you don't know.

[Fahnenbohn]

You are not able to understand, you are too much brainwashed by TV and school ... :nope:

Sorry to say that but you can't change your mind, because you are terrified by the allied war propaganda against Germany.

When I said concentration camps, it was not serious from me. But I expected your reactions. Very concluding ... Pavlovian reflex .... nazi, hate, (not complotist too ? lol) and blablabla ...

And last word : we are not speaking about "thousands" people, but several millions people ! So, stopping this invasion is self-defense. OK ?

[Fahnenbohn]

That is why the EU with its uniform and centrlaised, totalitarian, neo-feudal ambition, and "Europe", are not just two totally different things, but indeed are antagonistic to each other. You cannot be for Europe while wanting a strong EU. If you want a stroing EU, you destroy what Europe is: a plural, a group, not one uniformed, collective actor imposing his will on all subordinate entities.

I totally agree.

[Jimbuna]

You are not able to understand, you are too much brainwashed by TV and school ... :nope:

Sorry to say that but you can't change your mind, because you are terrified by the allied war propaganda against Germany.

When I said concentration camps, it was not serious from me. But I expected your reactions. Very concluding ... Pavlovian reflex .... nazi, hate, (not complotist too ? lol) and blablabla ...

And last word : we are not speaking about "thousands" people, but several millions people ! So, stopping this invasion is self-defense. OK ?

We (as in you and I) have recently been down this 'denial' (or whatever you choose to call it) route just recently.

I won't be issuing any further warnings....and that is serious from me.

[Fahnenbohn]

Do you have any political pressures ? Oho, Big Brother is watching me ...

[Betonov]

Don't be too hard on him Jim.
In this day and age being in denial means you're right :03:

[Jimbuna]

Do you have any political pressures ? Oho, Big Brother is watching me ...

Pretty hard not to, you bring the attention upon yourself with some of the subjective comments you post.

Kindly refrain if you would be so kind.

[Fahnenbohn]

Kindly refrain if you would be so kind.

Oh, so we're not in the country of Liberty ?

@ Oberon : Laugh my friend, it's good for health !

[Jimbuna]

Oh, so we're not in the country of Liberty ?



We are currently on a forum that is privately owned and comes with it a well set out and IMHO very reasonable set of rules.

It is expected that all members of this community adhere to said set of rules.

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If you are in the Brig, do NOT, open a second account to continue posting. Duplicate and alias accounts are not allowed. Using a duplicate account to circumvent the Brig will result in a longer ban, or total suspension (Keelhauled).

[Fahnenbohn]

It is expected that all members of this community adhere to said set of rules.

Ok, I'll respect your taboo in your home, Grand Chief.

After all, it's true that the course of the last world war did very little honor to the Allied camp. So, I can understand that you prefer not to talk about.

[Betonov]

http://i.imgur.com/auFYBs2.jpg?1


The flow of refugees has somewhat slowed down. Compared to previous days.

Temperatures are expected to drop below 0 this night.

Policemen have been given free psychological counseling by profesionals if they choose they need it.

The financial department (furs), slovene equivalent to the IRS, has relegated 120 officials to augment the police at paperwork and registration.

260 unemployed volunteers will be given temporary jobs as clean up and logistics help at the affected areas.

Police numbers on the total migrant inflow
date persons
http://img.rtvslo.si/_up/upload/2015/11/01/65258382_tabela.jpg

No incidents reported.

[Betonov]

On a more serious note, I think things are going to take a turn for the worse soon, we're on the cusp of winter and these people are not going to be that well prepared for it. I wonder how many will die of the cold this year?

Red cross is in full force in the field trying to clothe them. But winter clothes are not enough, heated tents will have to be brought in and the Slovene army doesn't have enough of them. Brussels will have to jump in on this one and if anyone dies from cold it's NOT going to be OUR fault.
I'm surprised we are coping this well. I mean kudos to the police.
Even our goverment send a stern message to Brussels they will need to move their behinds.

[eddie]

What I am wondering is, it wasn't that long ago when there were riots in different cities in France, mostly by Arab youth IIRC. If housing and jobs for these folks can't be found fast enough, could this cause major problems across Europe? I hope these folks have patience enough to know, that everything they seek, won't come over night, that this will take some time.

[Skybird]

Demographic warfare today:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/libya/11970313/Libya-warns-it-could-flood-Europe-with-migrants-if-EU-does-not-recognise-new-Islamist-government.html

Well. Compare.


“One day, millions of men will leave the Southern Hemisphere to go to the Northern Hemisphere. And they will not go there as friends. Because they will go there to conquer it. And they will conquer it with their sons. The wombs of our women will give us victory.”
– Houari (Mohamed) Boumedienne, President of Algeria, 1965 – 1978, in a 1974 speech at the UN


"There are signs that Allah will grant victory to Islam in Europe without swords, without guns, without conquest. we don't need terrorists, we don't need homicide bombers. The 50+ million Muslims [in Europe] will turn it into a Muslim continent within a few decades."
− Muammar Gaddafi

"Islam isn't in America to be equal to any other faith, but to become dominant. The Koran . . . should be the highest authority in America, and Islam the only accepted religion on earth."
− Ohmar Ahmad, co-founder of CAIR (Council on American-Islamic Relations)


"Islam makes it incumbent on all adult males, provided they are not disabled and incapacitated, to prepare themselves for the conquest of [other] countries so that the writ of Islam is obeyed in every country in the world. "
− Ayatollah Khomeini


"Have no doubt... Allah willing, Islam will conquer what? It will conquer all the mountain tops of the world."
− Mahmoud Ahmadinejad


“I wouldn't want to create the impression that I wouldn't like the government of the United States to be Islamic sometime in the future. But I'm not going to do anything violent to promote that. I'm going to do it through education.”
− Ibrahim Hooper, Communications Director, CAIR (Council on Armerican Islamic Relations)


“The whole of Europe will become Islamic. Like the army of the sultan we will conquer Rome.”
− Former Turkish Prime Minister Necmettin Erbakan, June 2002


"Today, Rome is the capital of the Catholics, or the Crusader capital, which has declared its hostility to Islam, and has planted the brothers of apes and pigs in Palestine in order to prevent the reawakening of Islam. This capital of theirs will be an advanced post for the Islamic conquests, which will spread through Europe in its entirety, and then will turn to the two Americas, and even Eastern Europe."
− Yunis Al-Astal, Hamas MP and cleric


"We will control the land of the Vatican; we will control Rome and introduce Islam in it."
− Sheikh Muhammad bin Abd al-Rahman al-’Arifi, imam of the mosque of the Saudi government’s King Fahd Defence Academy

"The Ikhwan [Muslim Brotherhood] must understand that their work in America is a kind of grand Jihad in eliminating and destroying the Western civilization from within and 'sabotaging' its miserable house by their hands and the hands of the believers so that it is eliminated and Allah's religion is made victorious over all other religions."
-- Mohamed Akram, "An Explanatory Memorandum on the General Strategic Goal for the Group in North America," May 22, 1991, Government Exhibit 003-0085.

"Islam will return to Europe as a conqueror and victor, after being expelled from it twice - once from the South, from Andalusia, and a second time from the East, when it knocked several times on the door of Athens."
Sheikh Yousef Al-Qaradhawi, leading Sunni cleric
I am waiting to watch European servile dogs kneeling before Erdoghan in Ankara, now that the great Sultan got what he wanted and is more powerful than ever. So much for European spine, standards and principles. I will find the sight most amusing. What was it that the Great Sultan has said:

"Democracy is like a train. We shall get out when we arrive at the station we want." - Recep Tayyip ErdoghanFor this he started and intensified to bomb the Kurds, provoked them to strike back, raised Turkish hostility against them as a result of that (and pro-AKP sentiments), and then had new elections with now the correct result.



If you think these news and quotes have nothing to do with the migration problem, you better thinks twice - and if needed: a third and fourth time until you finally get it.

[Jimbuna]

The first migrants to land on British sovereign territory.

A number of boats carrying dozens of migrants, including children, have landed at the RAF base at Akrotiri in Cyprus, the Ministry of Defence says.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34590635

Not happy with shelter, three meals a day, privacy and communications while their asylum applications are processed by Cyprus.

Those staying there have access to three meals a day, shelter, privacy and communications, which United Nations staff have visited and say exceeds the standard of comparable set-ups.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34715877

[Betonov]

next to the place where the redhead works runs the main train line and every day at 10.15 a refugee train bound for Austria passes by.
I'll try and get a picture next time

[Betonov]

I've heard all sorts of accents this week, but the majority so far have been Eastern European.

Try Whitechapel main street and Mile end street.
A great concentration of Pakistani and Bangladesh culture, and still safe (gasp)

[Onkel Neal]

You're quoting a nazi propaganda website? :o

[Eichhörnchen]

next to the place where the redhead works runs the main train line and every day at 10.15 a refugee train bound for Austria passes by.
I'll try and get a picture next time

Of the redhead?

[Betonov]

Of the redhead?

You wish :O:


http://i.imgur.com/auFYBs2.jpg?1

20 policemen arrived from Slovakia to augment the border. This will raise more confusion from people that have problem differentiating between Slovenia and Slovakia.
A contingnet of a 100 policemen is expected to arrive during the next week from Germany, Austria and Estonia.

Prime moro... minister Miro Cerar responded to allegations from the paper Večer that the plans to close the border in worse case scenario as represive with: what would you do if people kept coming into your house. No European nation will allow this. There are limits Europe cannot cross. In extreme situations the borders will be defended with barbed wire, police or even the army. The state cannot allow the endargement of people and property.
He's spot on actually. Still a moron, but spot on

http://img.rtvslo.si/_up/upload/2015/09/19/65245817_mirko.jpg

A Croatian dog was found among the migrants. Alive and well mind you. The microchip inbeded in the animal asured that the owner was located and the dog returned.

Rumors have it that we already bought 127km of fence (at the cost of €12 per meter)

It seems Allah is with them, this november is the warmest ever. Giving us time to try and find a way not to let half of them freeze when the cold inevitably arrives.

A cop returning from the border told us a story, how Syrians can be identified from the croud by the fact that they're organised, self supportive and ready to openly cooperate with the local authorities.

Police syndicate threatens with a strike.

[mapuc]

A Danish politician said on a Danish Debate program Thursday evening

A person is only a refugees until he or she arrived to the first safe countries, when they continue the journey they are not longer a refugee but an immigrant searching for, maybe a better life than it would have been in the first safe country.

Markus

[Betonov]

http://i.imgur.com/auFYBs2.jpg?1


After the goverment claimed the technical obstacles won't be a wall, the army started workign on a fence today.

http://img.rtvslo.si/_up/upload/2015/11/11/65261091_rts6gmo.jpg

http://img.rtvslo.si/_up/upload/2015/11/11/65261047_photo_461938_20151111_4.jpg

Off topic: observe 2 different uniforms on the soldiers. The old, darker patern is the old one, dates back to the days of the war in 1991 and the lighter is the modern NATO patern.

The media is most likely overblowing this fence business. The border with Croatia is 670km long and I doubt we even have the money to fence it all up.
The fences are set up at the most dense crossings to coerce the migrants into a better controlled group and reduce the number of stragelers.

The fence itself is 1.8m high.

The Croats are already claiming that some of that fence is in Croat territory and have resorted to usuall tough child rhetoric.
Someone should remind them that this fence is needed because they're not capable of organising proper transport for the migrants.

The mayor of Gornja Radgona, one of the more important crossings into Austria stated: ''fear is only spread by those that haven't been close to the situation'' and also stated there have been ZERO incidents.

The hippies were denied a referendum to repeal the new temporary directive to allow soldiers to augment the police on the border. It seems some people think a soldier on the border means a death squad in your house. Now they're crying to the constituional court.