Realism- and gameplay-related hardcode fixes for SH3.EXE

[h.sie]

@sharkbit: It seems the additional messages required for this fix didn't find their way into the game.

1) Please, re-read every single line of the install instructions, especially the chapters "2. Preparing Supplement Mod" and "3. Indvidualizing the Supplement Mod" and follow these instructions line-by-line.

2) See whether the new messages found the way into the Supplement-Mod

3) Activate the Supplement Mod

4) See whether the new messages found the way into the game

[sharkbit]

That was the ticket h.sie. :up:
Somebody had a mind fart and a senior moment and screwed up setting up the en_menu.txt file for the supplement mod. :oops:

Bernaaaard!!!!!

Looking forward to getting back to the cold, grey Atlantic and trying out your mod.

Thanks for all of your hard work. :salute:

:)

[sharkbit]

Oh, one more thing:
I did try the Wolfpack mission once I got it fixed. I never did get orders for the wolfpack attack or to attack alone. I kept getting messages to keep shadowing, including that the wolfpack is being assembled, keep shadowing.

This went on for about 10 hours game time with hourly reports.

Is this normal?

I ended up getting a little too close and got attacked by an escort and I abandoned the mission. Some RL issues arose and I haven't had a chance to try again.

Thanks again.

:)

[Luno]

10 hours seems reasonable. I imagine it could take days for a wolfpack to assemble. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Thanks H.Sie for your wonderful fixes!

I do hope you have/will pass on some knowledge about how to change the hard-coded structure of the game. The collective effort of this great community could potentially bring a great deal of changes not possible before. :DL

[Luno]

I've been messing around with the mod and I've noticed that no matter how fast I go with the periscope up, the view does not get blurry. It will however, lower automatically at 8 knots.

I am running SH Commander with malfunctions enabled. Are they incompatible?

[sharkbit]

h.sie:

I know you're taking a well deserved break and probably have a "wanna do" list a mile long but......

It has always seemed unrealistic to me for ships to perform the hard helm overs that they do when attacked-the constant zig-zagging. The ships just seem a tad too maneuverable.

Is that a hard code thing and if so, is it possible to make ships evade a little less drastically?

I'm probably just a grumpy old Kaleun whining :wah:, but I thought I'd ask.

Thanks.

:)

[Gammel]

It has always seemed unrealistic to me for ships to perform the hard helm overs that they do when attacked-the constant zig-zagging. The ships just seem a tad too maneuverable.

would be better when attacked ships just zack once ore twice and also very less frequet...
Maybe ships should change speed to max. for a while too...
But current behavior for sure looks not right and maybe leads to convoy caos far to easy

So i'd vote for such a fix too - so h.sie, if you could please... :D

Thanks in advance!
:arrgh!:

[Olamagato]

It has always seemed unrealistic to me for ships to perform the hard helm overs that they do when attacked-the constant zig-zagging. The ships just seem a tad too maneuverable.
Is that a hard code thing and if so, is it possible to make ships evade a little less drastically?

Your solution: Thomsens Ships mod
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=143775

[igorlikespike]

Great mod! Thank you h.sie and stiebler! :)

[Wolfstriked]

Thanks a bunch Hsie.

[Traveller]

Great work H.sie!

The one fix at the top of my list would be no more instant 'game over' death screen once a flooded u-boat compartment fills up all the way. Have you found a a way to stop this instant death trigger in the .exe yet?

[Magic1111]

Hi Folks!

For german language speaker you´ll find a german translation (.pdf) from "V16B1 ReadMe" here:

DOWNLOAD (http://www.mediafire.com/?z5dv44e11aium7k)

Many thx to "Alberich" from german MarineSims Forum and "h.sie"!

Best regards,
Magic:salute:

[fitzcarraldo]

Great work H.sie!

The one fix at the top of my list would be no more instant 'game over' death screen once a flooded u-boat compartment fills up all the way. Have you found a a way to stop this instant death trigger in the .exe yet?

There is the Thompsen "no death screen mod", but I don´t know if it is compatible with the patch.

Regards.

Fitzcarraldo :salute:

[Jonny]

Just got this finally to work cant wait to play it!

Thansk for your hard work

Jonny:salute:

[Wolfstriked]

It seems that I am just stupid since I cant understand what Hsie wrote in the readme.Sorry but I may come off as stupid here but it confuses me.

2) Preparing the Supplement-Mod
Note: The Supplement-Mod is essential, not optional !!!
a. Extract the Supplement to V16 Mod archive
b. Put the patched sh3.exe into that mod (into the same folder where the 4 DLLs are located).

Now this is weird to me.Put the patched SH3.exe into that mod??When I do that the game will not start so I put the sh3.exe back into the main SH3 folder.

Then it says to put the _Append_to_de_menu.txt and _Append_to_en_menu.txt into the empty DATA/MENU/folder...thats done But next it says to ...............Append the new messages to the en_menu.txt / de_menu.txt files of your Supplement
Mod.

What does append mean?Doubt its working because I keep seeing
CE:
CE:
CE:

[Jonny]

done one partrol with this mod, found it difficult but good fun see here:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=151090&page=274

Jonny:salute:

[Victor Schutze]

It seems that I am just stupid since I cant understand what Hsie wrote in the readme.Sorry but I may come off as stupid here but it confuses me.

2) Preparing the Supplement-Mod
Note: The Supplement-Mod is essential, not optional !!!
a. Extract the Supplement to V16 Mod archive
b. Put the patched sh3.exe into that mod (into the same folder where the 4 DLLs are located).

Now this is weird to me.Put the patched SH3.exe into that mod??When I do that the game will not start so I put the sh3.exe back into the main SH3 folder.

Then it says to put the _Append_to_de_menu.txt and _Append_to_en_menu.txt into the empty DATA/MENU/folder...thats done But next it says to ...............Append the new messages to the en_menu.txt / de_menu.txt files of your Supplement
Mod.

What does append mean?Doubt its working because I keep seeing
CE:
CE:
CE:

Aaaahhhh the joys of modding... appending... modifying... altering... a true dream come true... :D

[Wolfstriked]

Aaaahhhh the joys of modding... appending... modifying... altering... a true dream come true... :D


:har:LOL are you playing with me? Help me:wah:

[Victor Schutze]

:har:LOL are you playing with me? Help me:wah:

Don't count on me: I am drowning in mod soup, remember? :D

My mod soup is so old and rotten, it actually turned into alcohol! :haha:

Cheers mate! :Kaleun_Cheers:

[Wolfstriked]

Holy crap:yeah:genuis post bro and I forgive you for the tease.:woot:

[Jonny]

Ok got a issue! I dont no if its me or something im doing wrong! I am on 94% realism and have my weapon officer identify and get my solution! i no more torpedos are on target as i watch them on my TDC. I am not sure if its becuase the sea is a little stormy and i got a lot of waves or what?

So heres my issue, i have tested this a few times, i shot two fish at a large merchant they went underneath him and i couldnt be bothered to continue the attack so broke contact. Ran into a second large merchant and the same happened two fish underneath and out the other side!

So i gave it a test! i set all 4 tubes to 1M and on magnetic and Fast speed! 600M submerged shot, easy right. well as i saw them all line up perfectly for the engine rooms with only 100 or so meters left i thought i got him! but no the first 3 go under and the 4th explodes premature! is there something im doing wrong i mean the fish are set a 1M and shot off with about a second puase inbetween each shot to make sure i hit the ship no matter how much it is bobbing!

Anyhelp thanks!

Jonny:salute:

[h.sie]

Sorry for the late reply. No time at all ATM. There have been some mod requests in the past. Some of them found their way into my todo-list for the (uncertain) future.

@sharkbit: I think 10 hours of gametime are not unrealistic for a wolfpack to assemble. Try the "Wolfpk less contact report" Option if you prefer not to wait such a long time.

@Luno: Did you change the hsie.ini? Please find out whether the patched CameraBehavior.act found its way into your SH3 installation. In principle it's compatible to SH3-Cmdr with malfunctions, provided your RandomizedEvents.cfg is okay.

@Wolfstriked: Still problems with your install?

@Jonny: Please read the manual about the Torpedo Failure Fix.

@Victor_Schutze: Cite: "Aaaahhhh the joys of modding... appending... modifying... altering... a true dream come true...".......I admit that the installation process is not easy. But you can optimise it. Feel free to program a little tool that automates the install. Are you interested?

[Wolfstriked]

Hsie,did you mean to change _Append_to_de_menu.txt to just de_menu.txt.The mod is working but the messages seem missing.

[bigboywooly]

Hsie,did you mean to change _Append_to_de_menu.txt to just de_menu.txt.The mod is working but the messages seem missing.

From memory you need to add the entries in Append_to_de_menu.txt to de_menu.txt

[h.sie]

@Wolfstriked: BBW is right. If you play in english, you need to place all messages contained in _Append_to_en_menu.txt after the last line of en_menu.txt.

If you play in german language, use _Append_to_de_menu.txt resp. de_menu.txt instead.

If you do that work described above in the Supplement-Mod instead of your Sh3-Installation, you don't risk to corrupt your installation, because you can easily disable the Supplement-Mod if something went wrong.

Good luck.

If you don't get it to run until weekend, I could help you.

[Wolfstriked]

It worked thanks guys.I think better instructions would read...

put the _Append_to_en_menu.txt into the empty DATA/MENU/folder of the mod.

Then copy the original en_menu.txt contents into the _Append_to_en_menu.txt.

When thats doneyou now must change the mods _Append_to_en_menu.txt to en_menu.txt


Should we change the MaxStrings=5000 to higher number?

Or just use NYGM mod as I will most likely do soon.:03:

[sharkbit]

I love the torpedo failure mode.

After some testing, I finally started a new career out of St Nazaire in 9/40 with the patch enabled. Set up a perfect shot north of Scotland using impact pistols on a medium freighter. Weather was stormy with 13 m/s winds. Sure enough, both eels go under the target(I use external camera for eye candy purposes).

I love the fact that there is no more mindless setting of the torpedo depth. Now there are other factors to consider in making a torpedo attack.

Later I ran across a coastal tanker. Once I id'd the target, I decided to pass on the shot due to the high seas. It was not worth a eel and I couldn't gun it under due to the high seas.

Any mod that makes you think and act like a real submarine commander is a huge plus. :up:

Keep up the good work h.sie. I'm looking forward to experiencing other aspects of your patch.

:)

[sharkbit]

h.sie:

I know you're taking a well deserved break and probably have a "wanna do" list a mile long but......

It has always seemed unrealistic to me for ships to perform the hard helm overs that they do when attacked-the constant zig-zagging. The ships just seem a tad too maneuverable.

Is that a hard code thing and if so, is it possible to make ships evade a little less drastically?

I'm probably just a grumpy old Kaleun whining :wah:, but I thought I'd ask.

Thanks.

:)

Any thoughts on this h.sie?

:)

[Jonny]

I must admit i was wrong! the torpedo failure mod was causing my problem. Now i dont attack in stormy sees and i just did partrol 2 and came back with 28000 T so im well happy! great mod realism is arwsome, playing 100% realism and its so rewarding!

Jonny:salute:

[Victor Schutze]

@Victor_Schutze: Cite: "Aaaahhhh the joys of modding... appending... modifying... altering... a true dream come true...".......I admit that the installation process is not easy. But you can optimise it. Feel free to program a little tool that automates the install. Are you interested?[/QUOTE]


Of course I am interested hsie! :yep:

how do you program this tool to automate the install? :06:

[kranklys74]

mediafire.com not working. Please upload files --> inofficial Patch v1.6 for Silent Hunter 3 to gamefront. Very thanks.

[SquareSteelBar]

mediafire.com is working well....

[sharkbit]

how do you program this tool to automate the install? :06:

Don't want to speak for h.sie, but I think he said that with toungue in cheek......

I think he wants you to do the programming. :03:

:)

[Wolfstriked]

Most people use GWX/NGYM or stock.Very easy to "append":O: those three and just enable the folder.

[Victor Schutze]

Don't want to speak for h.sie, but I think he said that with toungue in cheek......

I think he wants you to do the programming. :03:

:)

Me virtual Kaleun, not programmer. :k_confused:

[Wolfstriked]

Me virtual Kaleun, not programmer. :k_confused:

:har: its ok just remember that you will eat or drink mod soup for life then.:arrgh!:Speaking of mod soup,my SO was screaming contacts the whole patrol I just did.What was weird is that I would dive and there was nothing.Then when we did encounter a contact he would tell me merchant bearing 120 110 90 80....303.I did 3-360's before I realized something was way off.Now is this just mod soup or is it the games way of making me walk over to him and say let me in there idiot because you suck as a SO.:nope:

[kranklys74]

Thank h.sie. This patch for the game pad is very close to realism. I attacked the ship in a storm and saw the complexity of the attack turbulent sea or ocean. The vessels are throwing waves and sail changing speeds. Torpedo attack is also strongly influenced by the waves. Attacking convoy ships during a storm it seems to me totally illogical. with one torpedo ship not sunk irrespective of the tonnage of the ship. This torpedo damage model is developed GWX.
---------------
In his native language, Esperanto and Russian forum post is prohibited. I am speaking English poorly and write even worse.

[Victor Schutze]

:har: its ok just remember that you will eat or drink mod soup for life then.:arrgh!:Speaking of mod soup,my SO was screaming contacts the whole patrol I just did.What was weird is that I would dive and there was nothing.Then when we did encounter a contact he would tell me merchant bearing 120 110 90 80....303.I did 3-360's before I realized something was way off.Now is this just mod soup or is it the games way of making me walk over to him and say let me in there idiot because you suck as a SO.:nope:

Welcome to the "mod-soup-eater-club"! :Kaleun_Sick:

http://www.cookingwithmykid.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/soup-eater.jpg

[kranklys74]

I started a new career. three North Atlantic convoy attack proved unsuccessful. All torpedoes has passed below the ship's keel. Good weather in the North Atlantic great rarity. It told me my brother who worked in the civil fleet.
Patch for the game very good I really liked it, but:

1. How to increase the likelihood of bad weather?
2. How to make the torpedo original model GWX 3?
Thanks sir H.sie

[Magic1111]

1. How to increase the likelihood of bad weather?
2. How to make the torpedo original model GWX 3?


1.) Don´t activate the "Bad Weather Fix"!
2.) Don´t activate the "Torpedo Failure Fix"!

Both Fixe can you turn on/off with the OptionsSelector!

Best regards,
Magic

[h.sie]

that't exacty the way to go. thanks, magic.

by the way: i suggest to read the manual.

[Magic1111]

by the way: i suggest to read the manual.

Yes, RTFM! :haha::rotfl2::haha:

[kranklys74]

I am speeking Lithuanian, Esperanto and Russian.. English and need to learn :/ Thank you.

[Wolfstriked]

Hsie,was just watching 5 torps set at 4m depth and only one stayed there.The rest went DEEP and so I RTFM and found that you put failures to 25mdepth.Isn't this too harsh?Depth keeping issues should mean instead of the requested 4m you get 10 or something less severe.If its set to 10 then the games physics are taken into account since if the draft is 6 and you set for 7 magnetic you will miss.If the draft is 6 and you set for 5 impact and you get 10....you still have a chance to hit a boat behind it with a lower draft.Just asking.:shucks:

[Olamagato]

Setting depth of 25 m is replaced simply a lack of explosion or premature explosion. The purpose of this setting is to eliminate the possibility of hits. If you had the average weather conditions, you have a > 75% chance of losing torpedoes. Just because you gave a small draft torpedoes.
The worse the weather and earlier years, the deeper you have to set the torpedoes in the game.
In the real war setting correctly the depth of the torpedo caused her escaping to the surface and then got a good chance of detonation due to the impact of waves on magnetic pistol. Therefore, the magnetic detonators were soldered in G7eT2 torpedoes. Then torpedo flowed across the surface, but not exploded before it started by impact pistol.

[Wolfstriked]

Setting depth of 25 m is replaced simply a lack of explosion or premature explosion. The purpose of this setting is to eliminate the possibility of hits. If you had the average weather conditions, you have a > 75% chance of losing torpedoes. Just because you gave a small draft torpedoes.
The worse the weather and earlier years, the deeper you have to set the torpedoes in the game.
In the real war setting correctly the depth of the torpedo caused her escaping to the surface and then got a good chance of detonation due to the impact of waves on magnetic pistol. Therefore, the magnetic detonators were soldered in G7eT2 torpedoes. Then torpedo flowed across the surface, but not exploded before it started by impact pistol.

Olamagato,great stuff and I love learning about this Sub warfare.Just wondering if this way is optimal since the game models dud torpedoes already.I mean if you set for magnetic 7m and the torp goes to 10 then thats penalty enough BUT it still ups the chance that a larger draft ship is on its course.

[Olamagato]

Damage model torpedo from H.Sie adds to the existing model. Unfortunately the only game code may cause the pistols does not work or premature detonation. It was not possible simulate these effects in the revised code sh3.exe. Damage model for SH3 does not imply any change in the depth of the torpedo. Torpedo set to the desired depth, always on it will (or at least for me).

Perhaps a better solution (and more consistent historically) would be set to a depth of defective torpedoes always to zero, then exposed to an original damage mechanism of the game and allowed a fired torpedo at a premature detonation or noticed by the enemy.

[Wolfstriked]

Damage model torpedo from H.Sie adds to the existing model. Unfortunately the only game code may cause the pistols does not work or premature detonation. It was not possible simulate these effects in the revised code sh3.exe. Damage model for SH3 does not imply any change in the depth of the torpedo. Torpedo set to the desired depth, always on it will (or at least for me).

Perhaps a better solution (and more consistent historically) would be set to a depth of defective torpedoes always to zero, then exposed to an original damage mechanism of the game and allowed a fired torpedo at a premature detonation or noticed by the enemy.

Hehe I hope not to ruffle the mans feathers.So what we are talking about here is not the natural tendency to fail which Hsie mapped out better but instead the modeling of duds resulting from too shallow torpedo depth settings.So not only are the torpedoes even more junky in early war but we now have to deal with estimating how close to surface we can let em loose.Great stuff!!:arrgh!:

If I have windspeed 15 then that means under 6m is good.Whats crazy is that so many of the small cruisers have such low drafts.Clemson class draft is 3.2......its immune to torpedoes in heavy seas unless your extremely lucky.

[Olamagato]

If I have windspeed 15 then that means under 6m is good.Whats crazy is that so many of the small cruisers have such low drafts.
Clemson class draft is 3.2......its immune to torpedoes in heavy seas unless your extremely lucky.
Yes, you right.
I do not know if H.Sie modeled as the fix to omit the magnetic pistol defect when it is turned off in a torpedo.

From what I know, problems with the U-boat torpedoes the result of three reasons:
1) The lack of detonations after the torpedo hit the hull due to defects in the contact detonator.
2) Defective gyroscopic mechanism, which caused lower than expected immersion (torpedo sometimes flowed over the surface of the sea).
3) A premature detonation in a shallow submerged torpedoes or on the surface due to defects in the magnetic pistol.

In 1940, in case No. 1 there was no one simple solution.
In the case of No. 2 torpedo set for deeper immersion than it should.
In the case of No. 3 magnetic detonator switch off (even permanently).

With these solutions, the chance of attack failed because of problems with torpedoes was quite low.

[Leitender]

That´s exactly what i read about the so called torpedo crisis of the german KM.

Point 1) and 3) are already simulated by SH3, i think that works correcly.

hsie´s Fix simulates problem #2) and adds a premature rate for impact pistols and another premature rate for the magnetics ON TOP of the already existing rate, so it´s a mixture. But i never read about a premature problem of the magnetics. Does anyone have such information?

Problem #2) resulted of long term diving phases, in which the pressure measuring of the depth keeping apparatus failed. That was btw. exactly the same problem the american torpedoes later had.

Tests then showed a depth offset of 1 to 3m, so Dönitz ordered his commanders always to set depth 2m lower than under normal circumstances. This didn´t work either, so magnetic pistol was forbidden short time after.

[TorpLos]

Hey again guys. So ive been very careful with the patch update. Slowly proceeding with the steps in the readme. Now i am a bit confused.

I have installed NYGM 2.5 along with:

NYGM 3_NEW
NYGM 3.6
Harbour Traffic
Hitmans Optics

Now that i have the mods that i want installed i looked at the patch update and made it to step 3.1 (which talks about changing the txt files). I wanted to be absolutely certain what the language means so now i am asking you. By "Apphend" the files so they mean copy and past the language into the original de_menu txt. files and the other???
Thanks


::EDIT:: Question answered. thanks all. I prob should have just posted in this thread.

[Wolfstriked]

Still wonder if the probability to dud is too harsh for choosing too shallow a depth.When the gyroscopic device got disoriented from surface running thru waves how far off did they then alter the depth?If you add 3 to 5m to chosen depth then you still have a chance.

[Lleinad]

Ahoy

[TorpLos]

Ok id like to ask one more thing about Step 3.1.

Seeing that i have NYGM updated to date. I checked the de_menu txt i grabbed from my original Sh3 and did necessary steps. Now that its in my supplement folder i need to copy and paste the "Append_to_de_menu .txt...".. When i copy the info from the append txt to the original txt do i just put it anywhere?? It seems there is some similar language in the original .txt menu so i dunno if i should copy it over that or what.

Sorry but to me these instructions arent entirely clear. I brought a few work freinds over and they didnt quite understand either..

AGH ok i downloaded the readme from the original first post and realized i didnt need the steps 3.1 and 3.2!!!! THANKS GUYS!!!

[Wolfstriked]

Your adding more stuff to the original so paste in bottom.

[Magic1111]

Ahoy

:salute::salute::salute:Welcome aboard!!!:salute::salute::salute:

[Hitman]

I don't know if this has been asked before (Probably so) but another nice fix if H.Sie returns somewhen or if Stiebler has the time for it, would be to replace in the pre-set orders for the crew when aircraft is sighted the "Dive to periscope depth" with a "Crash dive" order :salute:

[Obltn Strand]

I don't know if this has been asked before (Probably so) but another nice fix if H.Sie returns somewhen or if Stiebler has the time for it, would be to replace in the pre-set orders for the crew when aircraft is sighted the "Dive to periscope depth" with a "Crash dive" order :salute:
Good suggestion.
Similar thought develops in my pretty little head during every aeroplane related crash dive.

[h.sie]

More wounded & less dead crew (for V16B1 only, JSGME ready)

This new little fix leads to 50% wounded / 50% dead crewman (instead of 1% wounded / 99% dead) in case of a shell hit. This could upvalue the medic qualification, because only the medic can heal the wounded crew.

I tested this fix only regarding stability (CTD), but not regarding gameplay, so I don't know whether it works well / makes sense in all situations. But I think so.

Download:

http://www.mediafire.com/?sd6ibs626wds9xb

By the way: I'm not returning to modding, but I had 2 days of vacation and thus some free time to program.

[reaper7]

Thanks h.Sie any fix is much appreciated. Any more vacation time coming up :D

[SquareSteelBar]

...I'm not returning to modding, but I had 2 days of vacation and thus some free time to program.Characteristic alibi of an addict... ;)

[Fubar2Niner]

............ I had 2 days of vacation and thus some free time to program.


Kaleun by your own admission, you will always return to modding. I and many others salute you sir, for your tenacity, and generosity to this community. You surely rank among the 'supermod' Kaleuns. :salute:

My utmost respect and very best regards.

Fubar2Niner

[Wolfstriked]

Thanks again Hsie.:up::up:

[Magic1111]

More wounded & less dead crew (for V16B1 only, JSGME ready)


Wonderful little new Add-On!

But how to install it? And do I need the two .bin Files?

And works the Add-On with the Stiebler-Fix together?

Best regards,
Magic:salute:

[SquareSteelBar]

...But how to install it?...It's JSGME ready !


...And do I need the two .bin Files?...No. They're intended to confuse you... :D


They're of course essential for the functionality of this mod... :dead:


...And works the Add-On with the Stiebler-Fix together?...I think it doesn't affect Stiebler's addon.
Give it a try. If it won't work with Stiebler's addon disable it via JSGME...

[Olamagato]

Thank you very much for continuous improvement of the sh3 code.
Now, this could up-value not only the medic qualification but "Wound Badge" too, previously unusable in practice.
If I had my way, you would have about five new years holiday. :)

Greetings.

[Magic1111]

It's JSGME ready !


No. They're intended to confuse you... :D


They're of course essential for the functionality of this mod... :dead:


I think it doesn't affect Stiebler's addon.
Give it a try. If it won't work with Stiebler's addon disable it via JSGME...

Many thx SSB! :yeah:

Best regards,
Magic:salute:

[rudewarrior]

Hi h.sie,

This mod is absolutely wonderful, and your "Best of SubSim" award was well deserved.:yeah:

I was wondering if you could answer a question about whether or not the programming would allow you to be able to do something specific.

For the Torpedo Failure Fix, I understand that when a torpedo registers as a dud, it goes immediately to max depth. Is there any possibility that you could set it such that when a torpedo registers as a dud that it could randomly increase the torpedo depth by 2-4 meters?

As an even further step, is it possible to have the torpedo register as a "dud", and then have a certain percentage of those torpedoes go to max depth and then the remaining percentage of torpedoes increase depth by 2-4 meters, i.e. still remain live, but just traveling at a lower depth?

I am just wondering if this is possible to do to more accurately represent the conclusions from the Torpedo Crisis where the Torpedo Directorate was finding torpedoes running at lower depths?:hmmm:

Thanx in advance.

[Wolfstriked]

If Hsie ever comes back to modding that is Rudewarrior. :( I agree with you and think its better to still have a chance of hitting another sub.

Would also love to see the compressed air worked over By Hsie.Seems that SH3 was headed for a more realistic simulation of compressed air but decided to just simplify it.The code might be there and just needs to be enabled again.

What I mean is that the difficulty menu it says "compressed air is needed to change depth without using your engines and to blow ballast in emergency situations". There is also two sound files for adding and removing ballast.

Been looking into compressed air for 2 weeks now.Things I found are that it seems that one blow ballast was all you would get (anyone know if I am right/wrong)and saved for emergencies.Normal surface was a percentage of the ballast tank blown out by the 600pound system and when on surface the low pressure blower would use outside air to finish off the blowing out of ballast.This low pressure pump is modeled as you see the sub is not very buoyant upon initial surface and the low pressure blower quickly finishes the job.Been looking for two weeks trying to find out how long the low pressure blower would actually need to finish off blowing the ballast and FINALLY found today its 10 to 15 minutes.The pump was never used for more than 20 minutes as it was air cooled.Would love to see it take 10 minutes to finish for realism.;)

Compressed air was also used to fire torpedoes and blow out the now water filled tubes.Would be kool to see small decreases etc.

And finally would love to see conning tower floodable and a modeled safety tank you could blow since you can't repair it submerged.Seems the negative tank is modeled since you get much faster dive speed when crash diving compared to normal dive.Reason to normal dive is you save the compressed air that would be used to blow out the negative and bow ballast tanks.

:rotfl2:Wishful thinking! EDIT oh and a realistic flooding over time in damage screen when silent running. :D

[Olamagato]

I tested the last few patrols with an extremely large extension of time to repair equipment (val1 = 300.0). Ship after hitting two bombs had almost all the devices can either damaged or not working. Hull strength dropped by half, but the ship managed to always be saved (seabed repairs on), and all devices possible to fix repaired about 2.5-3 days by my veteran crew (6 x repair). It turned out that the actual repair time may be much lower than the expected amount of time repair. This is because some equipment is repaired at the same time simultaneously, as well as the equipment is repaired where there is no damage control team (by the crew in compartments).

@rudewarrior
Your idea to instead exclude the possibility of a defective torpedo hits (-25m) to reduce the chance of hitting (-2..-4 m) is imo wrong. This is because h.sie made available the ability to determine the probability of defective torpedoes (hsie.ini). Faulty torpedo can never hit the target but you suggest that a defective torpedo hit may succeed. In addition, to quantify the chance to hit becomes impossible. Then one makes a second draw.

Perhaps better would be set to 0 m, to take effect the original game detonation mechanism of defective torpedoes because exactly what has happened with defective torpedoes - floated on the surface or shallow. And then exploded.

@Wolfstriked
German torpedoes were pushed out of the tube by means of the piston. It was driven by compressed air, but from a different circuit than the one used to fill the ballast tanks. The air is returned back into circulation (it was not removed from the ship).

[rudewarrior]

@rudewarrior
Your idea to instead exclude the possibility of a defective torpedo hits (-25m) to reduce the chance of hitting (-2..-4 m) is imo wrong. .

It was also found that the essential problem with the impact-pistol torpedo Mark G7e was that its depth-keeping gear ran off base, causing the torpedo to run 6 feet deeper than set depth and simply pass beneath its target. Thus, writes Dönitz, "we found ourselves equipped with a torpedo that refused to function in northern waters either with contact or with magnetic pistols."Source (http://www.uboat.net/history/torpedo_crisis.htm).

I'm not saying that his model is wrong, but what I am saying is that his model for correctly simulating the torpedo crisis is incomplete. The torpedo directorate was finding that the torpedoes were running too deep by ~2-4 meters. The orders given to u-boats reflected this, by telling the Kaleuns to set certain depths on their torpedoes to adjust for this depth issue. I am not suggesting he replace his model, but his model is designed to simulate ALL torpedo malfunctions during the Torpedo Crisis, be it surface runner, running too deep, or be just a plain old dud. The reason I would like to see the ~2-4 meter implementation is that if the torpedo is traveling at a depth increase of 2-4 meters on a deep draft target, it still might still detonate. Unfortunately, for us (and the Kriegsmarine) the only data that is/was out there showed how many malfunctions there were (and even these data points were based on subjective interpretation by Kaleuns) as opposed to what type of malfunction actually occurred. So in reality, a torpedo could be set to 4 meters on a 9 meter draft target, still be malfunctioning such that it travels at 6 meters and still actually detonate. There is no way to say that this happened for sure, but based on the data we have, this is not an unreasonable assumption.

One other fine point, is if you read carefully, I am not suggesting that he replace his model, just set it up so that some of the torpedoes that are "duds" actually only increase depth by ~2-4 m. The remaining portion of the "duds" can actually go ahead and go to max depth to cover the situation of a surface runner and/or a defective pistol.

I am also not suggesting that he actually do this, I am just wondering if the coding even allows it to happen.

[TorpLos]

Seabed repairs is an option in hsie patch? I missed that.

Ah i forgot mention something. On one of my doomed attacks on a convoy in 1943 i was dced to all hell with bascially.all.my communication system, listening systems, and visuals destroyed. when i was on the hydrophone i could not hear anything. (destroyed) but when my hydrophone operator was on i could ask for nearest contact and he could tell me. I know some.of u will say "well dont use it" or "take the operator off station" but the temptation was there!!! Needless to say after 3 hours real time evading and trying my best.. U-332 lost with all hands.

[Wolfstriked]

I tested the last few patrols with an extremely large extension of time to repair equipment (val1 = 300.0). Ship after hitting two bombs had almost all the devices can either damaged or not working. Hull strength dropped by half, but the ship managed to always be saved (seabed repairs on), and all devices possible to fix repaired about 2.5-3 days by my veteran crew (6 x repair). It turned out that the actual repair time may be much lower than the expected amount of time repair. This is because some equipment is repaired at the same time simultaneously, as well as the equipment is repaired where there is no damage control team (by the crew in compartments).

@rudewarrior
Your idea to instead exclude the possibility of a defective torpedo hits (-25m) to reduce the chance of hitting (-2..-4 m) is imo wrong. This is because h.sie made available the ability to determine the probability of defective torpedoes (hsie.ini). Faulty torpedo can never hit the target but you suggest that a defective torpedo hit may succeed. In addition, to quantify the chance to hit becomes impossible. Then one makes a second draw.

Perhaps better would be set to 0 m, to take effect the original game detonation mechanism of defective torpedoes because exactly what has happened with defective torpedoes - floated on the surface or shallow. And then exploded.

@Wolfstriked
German torpedoes were pushed out of the tube by means of the piston. It was driven by compressed air, but from a different circuit than the one used to fill the ballast tanks. The air is returned back into circulation (it was not removed from the ship).


I am setting repairs to higher values also.Its great to feel danger when limping back to base with 13% hull,both periscopes destroyed and compressor not working.I screamed NOOOO when my watch spotted something since I couldn't risk diving below 20m and I was also running out of compressed air.It was a one of the small DD's and vicious with its side firing DC's.I then spent around 10 minutes circling an iceberg while trying to get the compressor back online.:rotfl2:I have my enemies to be much more accurate and so I finally was caught out and they just ripped me to shreds.

Isn't it just one storage tank of CA and they open up lines to feed 600/225 etc pounds to the other systems while trying not to exceed their working pressure?I can see your point about a piston being used so that the compressed air is in a closed system...but I ask,are you sure?Look extrenally at torpedo launch and you see massive air expulsion.

Also,I am taking this idea from reading up on sub compressed air systems that state CA was used up by torpedo launches,maintaining depth with no speed,blowing the various extra tanks.I could be wrong though and I am open minded on this topic.Still would love to know if there was enough CA to blow ballast once.Maybe you needed 2/3 of the CA tank to blow ballast and the first 1/3 colored green was used to do duties as stated above.If you stayed below and say fired more torpedoes....maybe you got to the 1/3 red line and that was enough air to do normal surface routine??

[bigboywooly]

I can see your point about a piston being used so that the compressed air is in a closed system...but I ask,are you sure?

Torplos is correct in that a piston was used for submerged firings

[Sittingwolf]

Hi all,
Quick thought.
Would it be possible to apply a fix for all types of u-boats regarding their test and max depth they can go down to?
From what I noticed none of the present super mods renders that parameters CORECTLY!.

For example and in reality, U-boats type IX could go down to 230m as a test depth and their crash depth was around 250m.

For U-boats type XXI it was between 260 to incredible 300m at the time.

Best,

Sittingwilf

[Wolfstriked]

Torplos is correct in that a piston was used for submerged firings

TY Bigboywooly:salute:Your right,its cavitation from the torpedo prop that causes the bubbles upon firing...like the rear props do.

[Olamagato]

Seabed repairs is an option in hsie patch? I missed that.
You do not miss anything. I just had enabled the modification of that name to carry out repairs if the damage proved to be too large to keep the ship above the crush depth. So I tested the damages and repairs in the waters where the depth does not exceed 150 m.

[h.sie]

@SittingWolf (& others), sorry, but due to real life issues there is currently no progress in this project. h.sie

[Olamagato]

@Wolfstriked
http://www.ubootwaffe.pl/component/option,com_flexicontent/Itemid,76/cid,66/id,337/view,items

@Sittingwolf
I can plunge to 260m depth by type VIIC, IX and XXI without any damages (in GWX 3.0). However, below 180m have a very slow descent to avoid damaging strained hull (below 3 kts). IMO SH3 game simulates it well even though the sh3 team wrong maximum operational depth with crush depth.

If you want you can to below 300m but your hull will be damaged.
https://rapidshare.com/files/788809714/IXD2_Deep_Dive.jpg
https://rapidshare.com/files/3565995380/IXD2_Test_Depth.jpg
https://rapidshare.com/files/2805813150/IXD2_Deep_Dive_Survivor.jpg
https://rapidshare.com/files/504921718/VIIC_Deep_Dive.jpg
https://rapidshare.com/files/2053583676/VIIC-41_Test_Depth.jpg

[TorpLos]

Ah yes i found the seabed mod. I run NYGM so unfortunately i cannot run it.

Has anyone had any memorable experience with wolfpacks?? Since the new bdu messages have come out and wolfpacks organize i thought there would be a stream of.stories comimg.from our kaluens. But i havent heard one. Please share,i have no had any yet because i been playing late war and i am never around long enough in a convoy to get a wokfpack organized or even attack the convoy for that matter lol.

[h.sie]

@TorpLos:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1772992&postcount=2393

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1756000&postcount=2156

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1756243&postcount=2174

http://www.marinesims.de/wbb2/thread.php?threadid=13312&threadview=0&hilight=&hilightuser=0&page=7

[Wolfstriked]

Thanks again Hsie.:up::up:

Just got a question for you regarding Stiebler ASDIC patch.When I click on Stiebler mods and close it after selecting my choices I get the SH3.exe saved.Then when I go to close out your patcher it says again SH3.exe saved and I wonder if its resetting the choices I just made?

[h.sie]

@Wolfstriked: I don't know whether I understand you correctly...... If you have added Stieblers patch, please only use the new OptionsSelector that comes with his Patch, not that comes with mine.

[reignofdeath]

@Wolfstriked: I don't know whether I understand you correctly...... If you have added Stieblers patch, please only use the new OptionsSelector that comes with his Patch, not that comes with mine.

H.sie, I have a question, you said no progress was being made now due to real life problems, which I hope are alright going alright for you, but when may we start to see work begin on this mod again? and what are your future plans to for additions??

[Wolfstriked]

@Wolfstriked: I don't know whether I understand you correctly...... If you have added Stieblers patch, please only use the new OptionsSelector that comes with his Patch, not that comes with mine.

Now when I try it the sh3.exe disappears and all I have left is the SH3.old.I tried five times and always disappears.Sucks because this is a great mod.This is the error I get if it is an error.
#################################################
Found SH3.exe (HSIE)

Making Backup SH3.old
1 file(s) moved.

Patching....


c:\users\Maximus\desktop\New Folder\|Stiebler patch>\tool\xdelta3.exe -d -s sh3.xdelta3: target window checksum mismatch: XD3_INVALID_INPUT

Stiebler Patch completed!

Press any key to continue.....

[TorpLos]

Ive had same problem.. I gave up :*(

[h.sie]

@Wolfstriked, TorpLos: You should better post in Stieblers thread in order to get some help from him. This is because I havn't looked into his Patch-Kit so far and cannot help.

@USNSR....: the future is uncertain. I would prefer to continue programming, but that's impossible ATM.

[Dani]

@Wolfstriked and TorpLos

Try this:
After you patch your sh3.exe with h.sie's patch, DON'T make any changes in the option selector. Don't even open the option selector that came with h.sie's patch.
Then take the patched sh3.exe and patch it with stieblers patch, and then make the changes you want in the option selector.
This worked for me.:salute:

[Wolfstriked]

Thanks,will try that and see if it works.:salute:


Dani,it worked,thanks.

[h.sie]

New version v2 of my "More wounded & less dead crew" Fix available on my mediafire page. Fixed an incompatibility to Stieblers Addon. (Thanks, Magic1111, for testing).

If you use Stieblers AddOn -> Use new version V2

If you don't use Stieblers AddOn -> Use old version or new version V2.

[Olamagato]

very interesting post ,Olamagato :up:
so, you think that you can 'heal' somehow all the above 'issues' and give a more realistic behaviour to hydro and sonars ? or you are saying that nothing can be done about this ?

Reality:
1. High speed caused a stunned hydrophone / passive sonar, but almost not at all affect the active sonar signal quality.
2. ASDIC (first active sonar) was just scanning the vertical angle of 10 degrees only, so u-boot, which went down to a depth of 25 m was continually swept the sonar beam has a horizontal distance of 141 m, by which time passive sonar was no longer useful (own high speed).

Hydrophones in all supermods are incredibly powerful and effective when it comes to detection. Standing motionless u-boot in silent-run mode is detected by a hydrophone still beyond the reach of its sonar. But in stock SH3 hydrophones are practically weak because default hydrophone MaxRange is limited to 600 m only. Reason is unknown - possible to the lost one zero in the number range of 6000m (others passive sonars: 6500-8500 with 500m step).

The difficulty is that the actual detectors escort during the war have different properties depending on the speed of the attacker and the water temperature. Both of these indicators does not simulate or SH3 does not it properly.

The first obvious choice is the weakening of the hydrophone (and passive sonar) to be useless when u-boot is motionless and silent-run mode.
The second solution is the strengthening of active sonar to detect any u-boot in the range of the beam with a small correction to the surface reflection of the beam.
May these goals (for now) can not be achieved by setting sim.sfg and sensors.cfg (still without success).

However, you can make an reality approximation sonar and hydrophones action by reducing the angle of 170 deg MaxElevation of hydrophone and passive sonars at an angle similar to the sonar beam angle of sending(in AI_sensors.dat). For example, if the sonar MaxElevation (90 + 65 deg) = 155 deg or less then can set passive sonar (and hydrophone) MaxElevation to 155 deg or less. Then, under the escort make a zone of survival (consistent with reality when the destroyer speed is 15 kts or faster), which is the wider the deeper it is submerged U-boat. In addition, all front detectors destroyer cease to operate at a distance of 93m (type147A@220m) - 141m (default AI sonar@25m) to target without any rigid MinRange reduction. This also allows losing position of the submarine standing on the bottom (eg repairing) when the destroyers circling wheel. They must then throw depth charges at random on U-boat last known location if first attack failed.

[TorpLos]

Now when I try it the sh3.exe disappears and all I have left is the SH3.old.I tried five times and always disappears.Sucks because this is a great mod.This is the error I get if it is an error.
#################################################
Found SH3.exe (HSIE)

Making Backup SH3.old
1 file(s) moved.

Patching....


c:\users\Maximus\desktop\New Folder\|Stiebler patch>\tool\xdelta3.exe -d -s sh3.xdelta3: target window checksum mismatch: XD3_INVALID_INPUT

Stiebler Patch completed!

Press any key to continue.....

Wolf you are going to feel as dumb as i am when i tell you the solution!!! :damn::damn:

Do you want to know why stieblers patch isnt recognizing it?!?! ITS BECAUSE we are running the v16A1 PATCH kit!!! Download the V16B1 patchkit!!! LOL!! Problem solved!!

[Sittingwolf]

I don't do modding but I think the real issue will be to get to work electric engines when surfaced, like in real life u-boats could "do". How about that? :D

[Wolfstriked]

Wolf you are going to feel as dumb as i am when i tell you the solution!!! :damn::damn:

Do you want to know why stieblers patch isnt recognizing it?!?! ITS BECAUSE we are running the v16A1 PATCH kit!!! Download the V16B1 patchkit!!! LOL!! Problem solved!!

:har:....nope,thankfully I still feel semi smart:D Dani's suggestion fixed it for me.:rotfl2:

[TorpLos]

Guess im the only fool that was doing that. Lolol. Man ive been around computers forever but i never seem to get better at them:nope:

[Wolfstriked]

I don't do modding but I think the real issue will be to get to work electric engines when surfaced, like in real life u-boats could "do". How about that? :D

Best,

Sittingwolf

For me this would be a huge improvement but taken one step further.Right now when you order a dive the boat submerges and it takes time till the electrics turn on causing the boat to slow and hover.Would love to see that anytime you choose a depth below surface the electrics instantly come on as they did on the real boats.

Another area is the crash dive.Its a cheat in a way where no matter what your speed you choose it dives at a very fast speed till the depth set in the .CFG file.I changed it to 25m crash dive(also max dive) so that I am forced to choose a depth once submerged or stop at 25m.This did not work well because the crew start to level out 10m before the intended depth so I changed it to 35m crash and max dive depth.This way when you order crash dive it has the realistic aspect of a negative tank filling and then blowing once submerged as happened on real life boats.This way you can't cut to silent running and still sink like a rock.

[Wolfstriked]

Guess im the only fool that was doing that. Lolol. Man ive been around computers forever but i never seem to get better at them:nope:


What do you mean,your troubleshooting problems and that a good sign IMO.Most people would look at it and just be baffled by it.You might of been right in your case.Maybe it was just a reinstall afterall.

[Sittingwolf]

For me this would be a huge improvement but taken one step further.Right now when you order a dive the boat submerges and it takes time till the electrics turn on causing the boat to slow and hover.Would love to see that anytime you choose a depth below surface the electrics instantly come on as they did on the real boats.

Another area is the crash dive.Its a cheat in a way where no matter what your speed you choose it dives at a very fast speed till the depth set in the .CFG file.I changed it to 25m crash dive(also max dive) so that I am forced to choose a depth once submerged or stop at 25m.This did not work well because the crew start to level out 10m before the intended depth so I changed it to 35m crash and max dive depth.This way when you order crash dive it has the realistic aspect of a negative tank filling and then blowing once submerged as happened on real life boats.This way you can't cut to silent running and still sink like a rock.


Thanks Wolfstriked.

[h.sie]

....is it possible to equip the player uboat with more than one RWR receiver?

[Olamagato]

Yes. For example in GWX you have one RWR on board and second on top of the snorkel if you have type XXI (or VII/IX and Late War Sensors Snorkel Antennas option is activated) after 1 X 1944.

[h.sie]

Thanks. I have a vague idea how to implement (by coding) a distinction between metric and centimetric radar (sending and receiving).

[Sittingwolf]

Hi guys,

I don't know if I write in the right thread but I can't understand how this works.
I have got my fuel tank half empty and I sent my patrol report to BDU requesting for refuelling.
Insted of getting info where to meet milk cow, I got another one about surrendering my unit.
I don't want to surrender, I want to get refuelled.
Can you explain me what I have done wrong and how I should get that fuel and later on also fish from resuply units starting from contacting BDU via sending reports?

PS: I run LSH3 patched V16B1 patch kit plus V16B1 Stiebler add-on, ALL enabled.

[h.sie]

Hi Sittingwolf: Please consult Stiebler in his AddOn-Thread.

[h.sie]

I want to use the MinRange of the Radar to code the wavelength (e.g. 0.01 = centrimetric, 0.02 = metric).

This only works if in AI_Visual.dat ALL radar entries of ALL supermods don't use MinRange (what means: all radar MinRange=0). That seems to be true for GWX and NYGM.

But what about LSH, CCom, and WAC??

[Sittingwolf]

Thanks h.sie,
I'll ask Stiebler then.

[Olamagato]

I want to use the MinRange of the Radar [...]
This only works if in AI_Visual.dat ALL radar entries of ALL supermods don't use MinRange (what means: all radar MinRange=0).
You are sure?
SH3 engine use not MinRange at all?

That seems to be true for GWX and NYGM.
But what about LSH, CCom, and WAC??
If this value is equal zero then it can be used still.
Just minRange = 0 for any detector except for an active sonar (controversial) makes no sense. Therefore, it is equal to zero. This does not mean that setting a different value will not work.

And by the way is something of the radar does not work?
I did not check exactly, but it seems to me that is the difference between having RWR FuMB-7, and FuMB-26. I can always make it to submerge or hide the snorkel when the latter is mounted (for ver. 1.4).

[sharkbit]

Sounds like h.sie might be ready to start burning the midnight oil again and start working his magic again. :woot:

:)

[h.sie]

@Olamagato: Sh3 indeed reads in the MinRange value into memory, but for radars it seems to be 0 all the time. So I can use it. With FuMB-7 it's a different story.

@shartbit: you are wrong. Still no time, except Sunday from 21-23h in the evening. Thus, the RWR fix will take months, and will be the only project at the moment (preventing from other requests :D).

[Hitman]

will be the only project at the moment (preventing from other requests :D)

I should probably sticky that too ... :hmmm:

[Leitender]

h.sie

SH3 and all big mods don´t use minimum ranges, execpt for sonars. But for radars, it is not correct. ASV Mk I had a minumum range of about 1km (0.5nm), ASV Mk II. even 1,8km (1nm). These large minimum ranges were the reason for the introduction of the Leigh Lights, because the planes lost contact in dark nights when narrow approaching. One has to correct this wrong minimum ranges (for german AI search radar, too).

I don´t want to tell you what to do, but if you take these wrong minimum sizes, you´ll lose the above mentioned effect. Btw. if Stiebler ist correct with the introduction of 3cm Muecke Antenna for Naxos in January, 1944, the only "gap" for german search radar left, is between March, 1943 and Oktober, 1943. At all other phases, it seems to be that there was at least theoretically one RWR which was fitted to allied radar.

[h.sie]

@Leitender: I changed my plans, so I won't use MinRange because of several reasons. The plan currently is shown in the marinesims.de forum: The radar wavelength will be written/coded into the insignificant digits of the maxRange.

e.g. MaxRange:
12000m = unchanged = sends/detects all frequencies as before
12000.01m = sends/detects only cm wavelength
12000.02m = sends/detects only m wavelength

But: It's in very, very early stage - no guarantee that it will work.

By the way: No reason to explain yourself. I asked for input. You were one of the few who gave input.

[h.sie]

Regarding the introduction of two different wavelengths for radar & radar warn receivers (RWR), I can now give an overview what is possible and what not:

1) it is possible to introduce two different wavelengths using the insignificant digits of the MaxRange parameter in AI_Sensors.dat resp. Sensors.dat:

Example:

MaxRange=12000 : Sends/detects both cm- and m- radar wavelengths as before.
MaxRange=12000.01 : Sends/detects only cm-wavelengths.
MaxRange=12000.02 : Sends/detects only m-radar wavelengths.

2) BUT: The best (and nearby) solution is NOT possible: It is not possible for the RWR code, that continuously scans for enemy radar systems in render range, to find out the MaxRange (and thus wavelength) of every single radar system and react accordingly to the wavelength (i.e. detect it or not). I gave up here.

3) BUT: I am slightly optimistic to offer a workaround solution, that will work well in most situations: It is possible to determine 2 very important values by coding:

a) the current distance between the Uboat and the closest cm-radar system and
b) the current distance between the Uboat and the closest m-radar system.

these two variables give answers to two important questions:

a) is at least one cm-radar system in the maxRange of the RWR?
b) is at least one m-radar system in the maxRange of the RWR?

With these two answers, the workaround would work as follows:

Lets assume the RWR detects only cm-waves and there is no cm-wave radar system in the MaxRange of the RWR. Then, the detection probability will be forced to 0, the RWR will be made blind, even if there is a m-radar in very close range. It won't be detected.

If there is a cm-radar system in range, the RWR will be act unchanged and detect it soon.

The only problem arises in situations where BOTH, cm- and m- radar systems, are in MaxRange of the RWR, because then the RWR is active and will "see" both systems (since in reality it cannot distinct between the wavelengths).

IMO this is absolutely not critical, because it will cause a detection and a line on the NavMap, pointing into the direction of the detected radar (which could be the wrong direction to the m-radar, of course).

One of the main problems (that the Metox detects cm-radar) could be solved to 99%. Thus, surprising aircraft attacks are possible without being warned by RWR.

Feedback welcome.

[Rubini]

Hi h.sie,

How are you mate?
Sorry to be totally OT from your current work (radar lenght). I have not any knowledge to help you on this matter.

But I should like to suggest a new item on your to do list about hydrophones.
I guess that you know that some months ago I tried/made a small mod that adds three layers for hydrophone to add more playability and realism for the hydrophones . Also i guess that you have noted that only the more deep layer allows the player to listen by himself on the hidro station. A limitation from Sh3 that makes that mod just useful for half of the users.

Perhaps with hardfix could be not difficult to cut the max hydrophone range (on sensors.dat) accordingly the depth of the uboat. Let's say: PD to -18m: 12000m, -17 to -28m: 18000m and <-28m: the maxrange as it is on sensors.dat.

Thanks again by your great work. The radar fix will be another great addition!:up:

[Leitender]

h.sie,

nice to see that you´re continuing your studies. If i compare your basic approach with your randomized_events solution, i see a benefit in differentiation of the wavelength which radar transmitters are to be discovered by RWR.

In this case you have to determine if the sensor sends / reacts on cm, m or both m and cm waves. In reality, both bandwiths were only possible with combined systems for U-Boats as well as for AI ships. For U-Boats, a combination is possible and a second radar system is included in the big mods to have combined radio-systems.

Until now, no combination of m and cm RWR is simulated, these banddiths are put together in one RWR sensor. You have to rework the special U-Boat files and eventually the basic.cfg

To equip the AI ships you have to alternate the .sns-files and thus you have to decide, which system the special vessel will have. (i made the same thoughts, when fiddling around with combined asdic sensors. The SH3 devs simplified these real life combined systems in combining their characteristics in a unique sensor).

In fact, there were three important bandwiths working during WW2: VHF-Band (1m-10m), S-Band (10cm-15cm) and X-Band (2cm-4cm). Maybe there should be introduced a third digit? And maybe more combined sensor systems?

So my question is: Aren´t you satisfied with your own SH3 Commander solution? Or doesn´t it work (personally, i hadn´t yet the time to test)? I ask, because i found this solution very simple not only to simulate the Metox blackout, but also simple to attach it to the player´s system.

Greetings

[h.sie]

@Rubini: Hi mate, maybe later. one project at a time. :)

@Leitender: I don't understand.

1) Why do i have to rework the special U-Boat files and eventually the basic.cfg if I change the behavior of an RWR??? To change the RWR detection wavelength, only one change in Sensors.dat (MaxRange) for every RWR type is necessary with the hardcode fix. The Uboat will use the same RWR types as before.

2) Why do I have to alternate the .sns-files and decide, which system the special vessel will have? The vessels are already equipped with (the correct) radar. To change the radar wavelength, only one change in AI_Sensors.dat (MaxRange) for every radar type is necessary with the hardcode fix. The vessels and aircraft will use the same radar types as before.

3) Regarding 3 different wavelengths: The effort to model different wavelengths exponentially rises with the number of different wavelengths and thus only makes sense, if it had historical relevance (as it happened with Metox that couldn't detect cm-radar). Do you have any reliable historical information, that a similar problem existed for S-Band and X-Band? (i.e. RWR detected S- but not X-Band and vise-versa)? Did that cause similar problems as with Metox?

To answer your question: I havn't played so far, so I cannot say whether I'm satisfied with the Sh3-Cmdr solution. IMO it's too crude to simply apply a failure probability of a certain percentage for the year 1943, independent of what radar a unit really is equipped with.

But I must admit that I think about to go back to the simple Sh3-Cmdr solution. Hmmmm?

[Wolfstriked]

But I must admit that I think about to go back to the simple Sh3-Cmdr solution. Hmmmm?


Not everyone uses SH3commander though and I think the one patch for many changes concept is great for ease of adding mods.

Do you have any plans to try for a more realistic compressed air?One area that I think is rather easy to change is the time it takes for the low pressure blower to complete the blowing of main ballast tanks.In game its about 30seconds when in real life it takes 10 to 15 minutes.Will cause sub to not be able to reach top speed for the time its blowing out the ballasts.

The only problem is then the player can just "blow ballast" and voila problem fixed.But this can be player choice then....:rotfl2:

No problem if you think its more a cosmetic change and not worth the time to implement.:yep:

[rowi58]

Hi h.sie,


I***8217;m using the following solution within SH3_Cmdr's ***8220;Randomised events.cfg***8221;. Not as ***8220;Malfunction***8221;. Not as ***8220;Sabotage***8221;. Just a ***8220;normal***8221; event with 100% probability. It changes the ***8220;MaxHigh***8221; of the three RWR-sensors ***8220;Metox***8221;, ***8220;Borkum***8221; and ***8220;Naxos***8221; and reduces the precise and max. range of those.


;---------------------------------------------------------------------------------RadarWar--by-rowi58
[0:data\Library\Sensors.dat]
;Simulation der elektronischen Kriegsführung - Radar gegen Radarwarngeräte
ApplyToPeriod=19420801|19430201
ChooseFrom=1
RndMidPat=1


0_x2729E=15000;.......... ***8220;Naxos***8221; - MaxHigh
0_x4BA99=7000;........... ***8220;Borkum***8221; - precise Range
0_x4BAAA=7000;........... ***8220;Borlum***8221; - max. range
0_x4BACE=15000;.......... ***8220;Borkum***8221; - MaxHigh
0_x4EE30=7000;............ ***8220;Metox***8221; - precise range
0_x4EE41=7000;............ ***8220;Metox***8221; - max. range
0_x4EE65=15000;.......... ***8220;Metox***8221; - MaxHidh


;-----------------------1943
[1:data\Library\Sensors.dat]
;Simulation der elektronischen Kriegsführung - Radar gegen Radarwarngeräte
ApplyToPeriod=19430202|19430601
ChooseFrom=1
RndMidPat=1


0_x2729E=15000
0_x4BA99=7000
0_x4BAAA=7000
0_x4BACE=15000
0_x4EE30=5000
0_x4EE41=5000
0_x4EE65=200


;-----------------------1943
[2:data\Library\Sensors.dat]
;Simulation der elektronischen Kriegsführung - Radar gegen Radarwarngeräte
ApplyToPeriod=19430602|19431231
ChooseFrom=1
RndMidPat=1


0_x2729E=15000
0_x4BA99=7000
0_x4BAAA=7000
0_x4BACE=15000
0_x4EE30=5000
0_x4EE41=5000
0_x4EE65=60




;-----------------------1944
[3:data\Library\Sensors.dat]
;Simulation der elektronischen Kriegsführung - Radar gegen Radarwarngeräte
ApplyToPeriod=19440101|19440531
ChooseFrom=1
RndMidPat=1


0_x2729E=15000
0_x4BA99=5000
0_x4BAAA=5000
0_x4BACE=60
0_x4EE30=5000
0_x4EE41=5000
0_x4EE65=60


;-----------------------1944_45
[4:data\Library\Sensors.dat]
;Simulation der elektronischen Kriegsführung - Radar gegen Radarwarngeräte
ApplyToPeriod=19440601|19451231
ChooseFrom=1
RndMidPat=1


0_x2729E=60
0_x4BA99=5000
0_x4BAAA=5000
0_x4BACE=60
0_x4EE30=5000
0_x4EE41=5000
0_x4EE65=60


Reducing the property ***8220;MaxHigh***8221; to 60 m (from 15.000 m) means that the RWR could not detect an aircraft with Radar ***8211; but it could detect ships with Radar. I think, no scripted aircraft or those who are generated by SH3 (AirStrike.cfg) will fly at an altitude of less then 60 m.


The start date and end date of each period refers to the appearance of RWR- and Radar-types, orienting at the ***8220;Basic.cfg***8221; and the SNS files of the most important sub chasing aircrafts such as Liberator, Wellington, Sunderland and Catalina. These dates can be different in every ***8220;super Mod***8221;.

ATM, it works fine. The only problem is, that I can not say whether the reduction of ***8220;MaxHigh***8221; to 200 m will work because i don't know at which altitude non-scripted aircraft will approach.


Note: the absolute hex-dresses will not work with Stock-SH3 or any other Mod including CCoM 8.1. The example above can not be used as a ***8220;fix***8221; or ***8220;add-on***8221; for the ***8220;Randomised events.cfg***8221;.


Greetings
rowi58

[dariocapcro]

Hello everyone, especially h.sie, I have a problem, I take off your v16b1 patch kit and read the instructions several times but it always throws me a message, sorry, no compatible version of sh3.exe found, can anyone help me or say in what order could be a problem, greetings from Croatian

[h.sie]

@rowi: thanks very much. the sh3-commander solution saves me a lot of time, trouble and controverse discussions.

@dariocaprio: it seems you don't have the original & unpatched sh3.exe

[dariocapcro]

Regards, and I do not, means that it is impossible to use your version, I'm sorry but thanks, greetings to everyone

[h.sie]

sh3 is available for some bucks - it's worth the money (in combination with a supermod)

[rowi58]

@rowi: thanks very much. the sh3-commander solution saves me a lot of time, trouble and controverse discussions.
...


Hope it helps.

In some cases, SH3_Cmdr is a very good alternative. For this problem, i think, it is a simple and reliable solution.

Greetings
rowi58

[rowi58]

Hello everyone, especially h.sie, I have a problem, I take off your v16b1 patch kit and read the instructions several times but it always throws me a message, sorry, no compatible version of sh3.exe found, can anyone help me or say in what order could be a problem, greetings from Croatian

Hi dariocapcro,

as h.sie wrote, you must have an unpatched SH3.EXE (and Co.). If you patched the sh3.exe with the "4-GB-Patch" before, h.sie's patch will not work. So re-install the backup of the sh3.exe and try it again.

Otherwise, buy a new SH3-Pogramm for 4,99 ***8364; from "Green Pepper" (available at mostly all Super Stores or at "amazon").

Greetings
rowi58

[dariocapcro]

Thanks everyone, h.sie, you're right :yeah:

[kaizerkat]

just getting back to sh3 and read this thread about this add-on to fix alot of things in sh3. Is there a thread on how to create a working directory so that i can try out these new fixes?

[sharkbit]

just getting back to sh3 and read this thread about this add-on to fix alot of things in sh3. Is there a thread on how to create a working directory so that i can try out these new fixes?

Download the fix from the link on page 1 of this thread. H.sie included an excellent Read Me explaining everything that you need to do.

:)

[Myxale]

just getting back to sh3 and read this thread about this add-on to fix alot of things in sh3. Is there a thread on how to create a working directory so that i can try out these new fixes?

A working Directory is basically a 'New Folder' Extract the patch in it, put your SH3.EXE in there too and run the patch.

[Vermin]

I have been away too long it seems! This is amazing! Now IIRC from the readme...

Additional Fixes by Stiebler
Stiebler has also programmed some nice hardcode Fixes for SH3, e.g.
· Grid Change Mod
· Surrender Mod
· CAM-ship Mod
· ‘Smoke-on-horizon’ Mod
· Silent-Running Mod
· Asdic in shallow-waters Fix.
These are not contained in „my“ Patch-Kit, but Stiebler will surely provide his fixes in the
near future, either as an Addon or as an discrete Patch-Kit.

Have these been released as well? :D

Thanks

Vermin

[h.sie]

yep, see here:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=193301

read the manual carefully before installation

[Wolfstriked]

Hsie,any chance to incorporate Stiebler fixes into your main patch.It took me alot of tweaking and testing and tweaking etc to add his patch on top of how hard your patch is to incorporate.Makes it seem like all the hard work put into both patches are only if you are smart enough to be able to apply them and you lose some users that way IMO.:hmmm:

[Victor Schutze]

It's called the mod soup syndrome. :D

[kaizerkat]

Is it possible just to install sh3 normal to C: program files, then gwx3 and then the hard code fix patch in that order or do i still need to create a folder and extract fix in folder along with sh3.exe?

[Vermin]

Great news!

Thanks muchly!

[h.sie]

ok, I'll help Stiebler to create a 1-step Patch Kit to apply both mine and his patches in one single step (instead of two steps as before).

BUT: there will still remain some tiresome manual editing work to do with some textfiles (e.g. campaign_scr.mis, en_menu.txt as usual, because these files differ from installation to installation).

h.sie

@Victor_Schutze: Are you interested to program an intelligent installer that automates all the neccessary changes? This would be a constructive contribution and would prevent mod-salad for those who are currently overstrained with the install instructions.

[Olamagato]

@kaizerkat (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/member.php?u=225519)
Installation sh3 directory recommended by UBI is unfavorable for GWX because newer versions of Windows trying to prohibit full file access by programs other than the installers assigned to these programs. JSGME is not a registered installer SH3, so the game files can be treated as read-only files. In this case, modding the game can be impossible.

I prepared a special package:
GWX Hardcode Fixes V16B1 for dummies
http://www.mediafire.com/?babdcso3pylrlcw
https://rapidshare.com/files/3968076250/GWX_Hardcode_Fixes_V16B1_for_dummies_1.01.7z

This small pack contains:
1. H.Sie V16B1-Patch-Kit prepared for GWX 3.0
2. H.Sie More wounded & less dead crew v2 - for V16B1
3. JSGME v.2.6.0.157 upgrade

Installation is simple.
1. The newer version of JSGME makes it possible to save the configuration before you disable all mods and restore it after installation (menu commands).
2. Disable all mods, then unzip the package to the directory SH3 (with replacement files) and run the installer file SetupHF.bat in that directory.
3. Restore JSGME mods configuration and enable "GWX HardcodeFixes" and "GWX HardcodeFixes - O2-Gauges" options.
Thats all.:woot:

@H.Sie I hope not to offend by easier installation of your work for GWX users. This setup can be easily adapted also to other supermods, and even should be possible to adapt it to the system for all existing supermods.

Some features:
- Installer patch currently used version of SH3.EXE (by setupHF.bat via Patch_SH3.bat)
- It is not possible to run SH3.EXE with enabled "GWX HardcodeFixes" before patch
- The "GWX HardcodeFixes" has context-sentisive label (in JSGME) indicating the current status of the patch.

[Wolfstriked]

Thanks Stiebler and Hsie.Fellas,I think that an easy way to avoid the mod soup with this mod is to have it so that you patch the .exe and enable the supplemental folder.To finish you choose one final folder....stock/NYGM/GWX/LSH.Thats 4 files already appended which will save a good amount of the less intelligent(me as that threw me for a loop) from running your file without all its necessities.That right there covers alot of people.:up::up:

I know its more work but its easy when you know what your doing and seems impossible when you don't.

[h.sie]

Wolfstriked: Not a good idea IMO. There are 5 different supermods, about 10 different GUIs. and every of those 50 possible combinations would require an individual Supplement Folder.

A better idea would be an intelligent and configurable (via script) installer that automates all the tiresome patching progress.

But I don't have the time to do that. Maybe another one is interested in an interesting challenge.

[h.sie]

Thanks, Olamagato. Your help is - of course - far from being an offense.

Your Pack is for GWX3.0 Standard-Campaign + Stock GWX GUI only, right?

[Olamagato]

This pack is for any mod-set based on GWX 3.0 with any GUI (known to me). Support GUI with your Colored Hull Integrity too.
Tested on my XP SP3 and Win7 Home.

@Wolfstriked
The intelligent installer that allows use of any super-mod can be made by me when I finish my GUI Editor. This is not a big problem to make such a setup, but it will require tests of all supermods and most well-known GUIs, which means a lot of time to use. Which also does not have.

[Wolfstriked]

Yep,forgot the GUI's.:nope: Olamagato,that would be great indeed.Lots of work though as you mention.If you can't then append it is.:woot::O:

[Olamagato]

Most of the work is completed. GUI Editor HD: 60%; GUI GWX Classic 1920x1080: 90%; 1600x900: 90%; 1360x768: 100%. The latter is already to download:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1886326&postcount=1

[Wolfstriked]

Ouch,I see that it looks to be impossible to do all combos.Maybe a way to have game search for a different file to read when it uses one of the hardcode patch sentences?

[Olamagato]

Universal Hardcode fixes installer can be done even in 1 day, but I have a rule that did not publish anything which has not been thoroughly tested. In this case the number of tests would be abnormally high (1/2 weeks).

[Wolfstriked]

Its up to you and your time.I'm pretty sure it will help quite a few here.

[h.sie]

@Olamagato: That would be really cool. Take all the time you need.

One suggestion: Instead of doing the changes directly in the sh3-Installation, let the Installer create a JSGME-ready mod (containing all the required files) that can easily be (de)installed using JSGME.

One wish: Is it possible to make it controlable via a script? This would help Stiebler to adapt it for his Add-On.

Sorry for being that unhumble.

[h.sie]

Regarding Radar Warning Receivers. So far I thought, sh3 models 4 RWRs: Metox, Borkum, Naxos, Tunis. But after digging in Sensors.dat I found a 5th one: FuMB391 (or similar), which is also a RadarWarnReceiver. What is the purpose of this one? Is it used by any Supermod?

[Olamagato]

One suggestion: Instead of doing the changes directly in the sh3-Installation, let the Installer create a JSGME-ready mod (containing all the required files) that can easily be (de)installed using JSGME.More than a year I analyzed the question of how to update the SH3 (GWX in particular) to have a utility value. Well, creating dozens of small elements, each of which often modifies a very small part of the game leads to a mod-salad. Ideally, every improvement should be free of the choice options. I think it has come to similar conclusions GWX team, which cut off their package from the base of a thousand small and inconsistent SH3 mods.
Is this you like it or not, your fix-package is unquestionable improvement of the game. Like patch - which in fact is.

As you know certain files in the game are of particular importance. These are files basic.cfg, xx_menu.txt and menu_1024_768.ini (and some other). Changes in these files are particularly difficult because the impact on the game and for each set of mods. The first controls the game, the second communication with the player, and the third all the graphics.
Allowing frequent changes in these files is the instability of the game. Each super-mod must keep these files in order and avoid unnecessary optional changes in them.
I left a few files as an update GWX not without reason. Applying the same files with a different content from different packages mods imo is a big problem. It avoids creating super-mods, patches and combimods. Well done super-mod should not have options, which the installation sequence will affect for a set of files in the game. But now, when the amount of mods "must have" more than 50, and their total volume has reached >1,5 GB, GWX has lost this property.
In my opinion there are 4 base packages that are de facto GWX updates:
- Wilhemshafen,St Naz,Schluese and xtra ships V6 (campaign upgrade)
- Unofficial Rocket fix (air cover upgrade)
- Hardcode fixes + Colored Hull Integrity (u-boat simulation upgrade)
- Any exhaustive widescreen GUI mod
I created a big package (unreleased yet) that combines them all and is supplemented by a very big number of small fixes of many authors (and me too). I want to emphasize - fixes - no new features (often controversial) in the game (if possible). This small Hardcode fixes package (for dummies) for GWX will be compatible with it. Therefore, several files in this small package is intended to replace the GWX original files.

Too much of note on this on this topic on only GWX, but I wanted to clarify that the swapping of some files GWX had some purpose.

One wish: Is it possible to make it controlable via a script? This would help Stiebler to adapt it for his Add-On.Yes. Making the smart installer with a batch script is certainly possible.
Some difficulty is the fact that jsgme even in the latest version does not allow scripts to read and write the whole mod-set. I'll have to replace the absence by script.

[Olamagato]

So far I thought, sh3 models 4 RWRs: Metox, Borkum, Naxos, Tunis. But after digging in Sensors.dat I found a 5th one: FuMB391 (or similar), which is also a RadarWarnReceiver. What is the purpose of this one? Is it used by any Supermod?
FuMo-391 was in stock SH3 radar antenna located on the snorkel of type XXI, but the Team GWX changed the destiny of the antenna so that it becomes FuMB-37 'Leros' radar detector antenna because historically that was his job.
Then, the same antenna was used to place on the special modified snorkel for types VII and IX as "FuMB-29 Bali" and "Wanze G2" RWR (type IX only) because later war u-boats older types were equipped with such devices too.
Device names are encoded in SH3.EXE and therefore GWX files still there are references to "FuMo-391" (as FuMB-29/37).

Source: GWX 3.0 Manual

[h.sie]

Thanks.

[Fubar2Niner]

@Olamagato

I haven't been around for a while and just stumbled on this. This is tremendous news kaleun, looking forward to your efforts :salute:

@h.sie

Thank you for making this all possible :salute:

Best regards.

Fubar2Niner

[Captain Mark]

I reinstalled my old SH3 after a very very long time, in the hopes to find a good mod for it. I chose to use GWX3 and I am pretty impressed, but what actually convinced me to keep playing SH3, is this amazing hardcode fix!

Many many thanks to h.sie, and anyone else that made this happen! :woot:

I applied the patch (V16B1) exactly like the readme says, and everything works perfectly together with GWX3 (I did all the tests), even though I applied the patch to an unofficial NoDVD SH3.exe (crack :D), because my win7 doesn't like the original SF-infected SH3.exe at all (Incompatibility issues with the SF drivers).

I have a question though: Since I am also using some of the JSGME mods that come with GWX3, is the 16km Atmosphere mod compatible with the Night Vision Fix (by Makman94, Rubini, h.sie), that is included in V16B1?

The V16B1 readme suggests the following Crew Sensor Settings in data/cfg/Sensors.cfg (tentative values):

- Visual range factor = 0.5
- Visual fog factor = 1.00-1.05
- Visual light factor = 0.8

Would these values somehow mess up my 16km Atmosphere mod?

The settings in my current SH3 installation with GWX3 are:

- Visual range factor = 0.5
- Visual fog factor=1.1
- Visual light factor=5.0

So I am not sure now as to which settings are working best with both the 16km Atmosphere mod AND the Night Vision Fix (by Makman94, Rubini, h.sie).

Sorry, I am new to this.

[h.sie]

@CaptainMark:Glad you like it. Regarding visual sensor settings:

I don't know the "final truth". The optimum settings seem also to depend on some other settings in sensors.dat, thus I cannot give a general solution.

Try the following: Set

- Visual range factor = 0.5
- Visual fog factor = 1.02

as fixed values and only vary

Visual light factor between 0.5 and 5.0 and investigate its influence on detection at day and night and choose a value that fits your personal taste.

[rudewarrior]

To continue on this subject of sensors.cfg:

h.Sie: Looking back over my mod soup I have just realized that in addition to this mod, I have been using your "No Continuous 'Ship Spotted' Mod."

Should I just eliminate that now? Or should I just update the settings you have in that to match what you call for in the SH3.exe readme?:hmmm:

[h.sie]

@rudewarrior: i also use the "No Continuous 'Ship Spotted' Mod, and I use the Sensors.cfg (unchanged) that comes with that mod and i must say that i am very satisfied. these are the visual sensor settings taken from nygm (which i've copied before i heard about modding etiquette, sorry).

[AndyW]

Hello fellow Kaleuns,

Good to see so many „old“ names being still here on duty after a long time…:salute:

I’m back to this wonderful game after a couple of years and want to give it a try with a fresh installation and the latest “must have” mods. Actually I didn’t want to spend hours on installing and adjusting and combining dozens of various mods. Instead, I want to set sails asap to see if I’m still able to skip a Tauchboot trough enemy waters and sink some tonnage…and get home safe.

So I am planning to install

SH3 V16B1
+ JSGME 2.6
+ SH3 Commander 3.2 Super Deluxe
+ GMX 3.0 Gold
+ probably a mod enabling a sort of real navigation – I remember the mod from vanjast back from 2009
+ probably a GUI with Angriffsscheibe for manual firing solution – not sure if onelifecrisis’ OLC mod is still state of the art

Here are my issues:

1.) Even after reading through the readme and using the search function I’m still not sure if I have to patch up the vanilla SH3.exe to patch 1.4b before patching to V16B1? The manual is a bit unclear here (at least to a bonehead like me);)

2.) Any conflicts or issues using V16B1 + Commander 3.2. + GWX 3.0 Gold? Is the installation sequence right?

3.) Any other “must have”- mods which are not already included in GWX anyway which I would need to have prior to my reactivation?

Any suggestions are welcome!

[SquareSteelBar]

...I***8217;m still not sure if I have to patch up the vanilla SH3.exe to patch 1.4b before patching to V16B1? The manual is a bit unclear here...Precondition for h.sie's V16B1 is a v1.4b sh3.exe !

[h.sie]

At the german marinesims.de forum, a user posted a combined convoy attack, consisting of aircraft and AI-subs from the Wolfpack-Mod.

http://www.marinesims.de/wbb2/thread.php?postid=251223#post251223

[Myxale]

At the german marinesims.de forum, a used posted a combined convoy attack, consisting of aircraft and AI-subs from the Wolfpack-Mod.

http://www.marinesims.de/wbb2/thread.php?postid=251223#post251223

:o Some great action. A cool read. Thanx.:salute:

[Vince82]

@Andy

GWX gold
Waterstream+Exhaust Combi V2.3 for GWX3
Waterstream+Exhaust Combi - Single Exhaust for TypeII
Aces' Radio Room Postcards
Aces' Modified Headphones
New Uboat Guns 1.2
MaGui 3.4 (take a look at the mod folder, to make sure you install the right folder)
New_Hydrophones_layersV1.1a
h.sie V1.6
Stieblers addon for V1.6
(Take a look at the manual u got to add some stuff manually, easy tho)

Very easy just search, download and install, everything is compatible. Don't install GWX integrated orders tho and V1.6 you got to read the whole manual.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=171019

To answer your question I patched 1.4 aswell.

@h.sie
awesome, where can we download this?

[h.sie]

@h.sie
awesome, where can we download this?

download what? The Wolfpack Mod? It's part of the V16B hardcode patch. The aircraft attack after a contact report is stock sh3 behavior.

[Vince82]

The aircraft attack after a contact report is stock sh3 behavior.


hehe so lucky, thought he added aircraft to the wolfpack mod. Never mind.

[Captain Mark]

@CaptainMark:Glad you like it. Regarding visual sensor settings:

I don't know the "final truth". The optimum settings seem also to depend on some other settings in sensors.dat, thus I cannot give a general solution.

Try the following: Set

- Visual range factor = 0.5
- Visual fog factor = 1.02

as fixed values and only vary

Visual light factor between 0.5 and 5.0 and investigate its influence on detection at day and night and choose a value that fits your personal taste.


Thank you h.sie for your reply. I will give it a try and run a few tests till it fits.

It's like they say: "All you need is good men". And good men this community has!:salute:

[kaizerkat]

First of all H.sie, great work on the hardcode fixes. Question, i have FM interior v1.0 and St.naz,wilhemhaven, etc v6 working together after your patch and it will load all the way to the end and then ctd.When i run them seperate, no problems.I see no conflict between the two files, except sound, but i think maybe the hardcode fix won't allow the two to work together. What do you think?

[AndyW]

@SquareSteelBar and Vince82

Thanks for the help!

Regards,
Andy

[Vince82]

Glad to be of help, Andy. This is usefull aswell (in case u forgot): http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=1461174&highlight=malfunction+sabotage#post1461174


Now I've got a question on my own about V16. I'm planning to use the stock renown reward for reaching and patrolling the assigned grid. Now when you use the request new grid option in the patch... Will you get the renown reward twice?

[Captain Mark]

@Andy

Don't install GWX integrated orders tho and V1.6 you got to read the whole manual.

Does this mean GWX integrated orders is not compatible with h.sie's V16B1 patch?

[Olamagato]

GWX integrated orders is not compatible with any GUI mod (menu_1024_768.ini) and FM Interior (commands_xx.cfg).

[h.sie]

you can make it compatible by following the instructions in the manual

[Stoli151]

H.Sie I apologize if this has been discussed before, but I was wondering if in the future it was possible to make the AI "sneakier" through use of this patch. Make it do things like sit on the surface with their engines off waiting for you to come back up without taking a look around with your scope first and ambush you. Or you could have them go away for a little while making you think the escorts have left and have them suddenly return to the area to see if you got comfortable while they were away, and catch you on the surface or making a lot of noise reloading torps or making repairs. I haven't played for awhile but as usual your patch keeps bringing me back. It keeps getting better. Thank you and everyone involved for your work.

[h.sie]

@Stoli: Good point, but unfortunately, I was (so far) not able to directly manipulate AI behavior (except for some dirty tricks that indirecly change the AI, but with very restricted effect).

[Wolfstriked]

That would be so great if we had a 50/50 chance of a ship turning off engines and waiting.

I think another way to make the game more real would be to allow better hearing for the DD's and to reduce the spread angle of their sonar.In real life the sonar range is 90deg and in game the sonar range is 180 deg.Always looks off to me when I have DD's pinging me and they are traveling parallel to me and same when I am in shallow water right below them and they lose track of me.Hardcode in a realistic length of time where they lose sound contact after depth charges.

Next is the "she's going down" comment and cheers from crew.This just ruins immersion for me.

Realistic pumps wherein you turn off to go silent running and you slowly start to sink is another.

Another would be to change the cannon accuracy stat in relation to the wind speed.In real life cannons in the WW2 era were accurate dependent on the sea state as they did not have weapons that would auto stabilize yet.....or maybe they did:shifty:

[Hitman]

I think another way to make the game more real would be to allow better hearing for the DD's and to reduce the spread angle of their sonar.In real life the sonar range is 90deg and in game the sonar range is 180 deg.

I think you can already do that with Silent editor, and in fact all supermods have tuned the sensors differently ...

[Wolfstriked]

I think you can already do that with Silent editor, and in fact all supermods have tuned the sensors differently ...

Your right Hitman,its done with Silent Editor.I don't think the super mods have done this though.When your in game with easy targeting enabled you can actually see the sonar cone when you click on a ships icon on the map and they show the 180 deg cone.More importantly though is the sound disruption effect being actually modeled would then give us ability to increase the escorts hearing ability while allowing us a chance to escape.Then make all AI good to excellent.This way when they make there first run they are accurate and you better have evaded by then as best as possible.Right now I have DD's that actually drop DC"s before they reach me...stop releasing as they go over me...and then start releasing again after the pass me.They also do not lead etc.I wanna fear the DD's BUT have a chance to escape.This would make the evade buttons like double knuckle turn etc actually important as the first runs of a DD were probably most accurate.Could be way wrong here though.;)


This also relates to airplanes.In testing every ship one by one for my almost ready to release mod,I notice that not once did the plane in the mission ever hit a ship.This is like over 200 attempts and the plane gets knocked out of the skies many times.I think that planes should be made to have excellent AI....make you evade with fear.This is not a hardcode tweak,just posting my thoughts.

[Vince82]

Valuable information, Wolfstriked. Thanks.

Realistic pumps wherein you turn off to go silent running and you slowly start to sink is another.


This is actually fixed in Stieblers addon for h.sie's patch. edit: (@ wolfstriked, workaround that's true)

[Wolfstriked]

This is actually fixed in Stieblers addon for h.sie's patch.

Stiebler's patch is a workaround though as he points out himself.Its a constant sinking of sub when at slow speeds irregardless of the pumps being on or off.For me,I do not run it because if my batteries start to go low and I can't gather enough speed to generate lift,I could then turn pumps back on.Really just a small issue though.:cool:

[Olamagato]

When your in game with easy targeting enabled you can actually see the sonar cone when you click on a ships icon on the map and they show the 180 deg cone.
Because this is simple flat texture. You can have 90 or 60 deg cone texture but it does not affect the AI sensors.
On the other hand, I have conducted many tests and changes in the cones horizontal angles (MaxBearing) of all sonars indicate that either the sonar does not participate in the detection of u-boot, or the angle of sonar cone is hardcoded in sh3.exe to 180 deg horizontal (like MaxBearing=90). You can perform the experiment by setting MaxBearing all sonar to 1 (cone 2 deg). You'll find that still escort will detect your u-boot from the side, not the bow. In contrast MaxBearing and MaxElevation setting for hydrophones works always correctly.

This also relates to airplanes.In testing every ship one by one for my almost ready to release mod,I notice that not once did the plane in the mission ever hit a ship.This is like over 200 attempts and the plane gets knocked out of the skies many times.I think that planes should be made to have excellent AI....make you evade with fear.That's why supermods such as GWX strengthened aircraft endurance, since it was not possible to reduce the accuracy of antiaircraft weapons. In addition, mods such as "Unnoficial Rocket fix" (for GWX) improved the accuracy of attacks.

[Wolfstriked]

Because this is simple flat texture. You can have 90 or 60 deg cone texture but it does not affect the AI sensors.
On the other hand, I have conducted many tests and changes in the cones horizontal angles (MaxBearing) of all sonars indicate that either the sonar does not participate in the detection of u-boot, or the angle of sonar cone is hardcoded in sh3.exe to 180 deg horizontal (like MaxBearing=90). You can perform the experiment by setting MaxBearing all sonar to 1 (cone 2 deg). You'll find that still escort will detect your u-boot from the side, not the bow. In contrast MaxBearing and MaxElevation setting for hydrophones works always correctly.

That's why supermods such as GWX strengthened aircraft endurance, since it was not possible to reduce the accuracy of antiaircraft weapons. In addition, mods such as "Unnoficial Rocket fix" (for GWX) improved the accuracy of attacks.

Thanks mate:salute:probably hardcoded in and weird that they would do that since the Maxelevation is changeable.

Thanks also for the rocket attack fix tip.Do you also know what setting changes the accuracy of plane attacks using bombs?I set crewrating=4 in the mission I was talking about and after 10 loads the plane still drops bombs way off target.Most likely due to the attack aiming for where the ships are when releasing bombs since the ships are travelling at 14kts.

I figure that the problem with [AI AA guns] setting is that its one number for both surface attacks and air attacks.This means that if you set innaccurate firing to simulate air attacks then the surface attacks will be off.Makes sense to increase the plane endurance.

[Stoli151]

That would be so great if we had a 50/50 chance of a ship turning off engines and waiting.

It would be awesome. Maybe it can be done another way, but I think it should be a very small chance like 1%. The DD captain would have to be pretty gutsy to try it because he also makes himself a sitting duck, that's why I would think it should be a small chance, but that small chance would be enough to make the player think about it. It would have to be used in bad visibility to be effective. Also, since he would have his engines shut down to make the tactic effective, the mod would have to make sure we get no dragster like acceleration out of the DD once it detects something. Given all these variables, it probably would be a difficult mod to make, even if it is possible at all. But it sure would be a great one if somebody could do it.

Next is the "she's going down" comment and cheers from crew.This just ruins immersion for me.

I don't like that either but I heard that might be hardcoded to where if removed the game will not reward renown for sinkings. To bad we couldn't report the fact we either witnessed the sinking(renown rewarded) or report that we heard torpedoes hit followed by breaking up noises, then upon confirmation of sinking by BDU, renown was awarded with a small chance of no confirmation(no renown). It would give the player more of an incentive to try to stick around the surface and witness the sinking and expose his boat to danger, making a bigger challenge.

[Vince82]

I figure that the problem with [AI AA guns] setting is that its one number for both surface attacks and air attacks.This means that if you set innaccurate firing to simulate air attacks then the surface attacks will be off.Makes sense to increase the plane endurance.

Which file controls this? I would edit it even if this would make the guys handle the deckgun slightly less accurate. Deckgun accuracy isnt that important to me, AA gun is. Slightly less accurate AA gunners would make SH3 more realistic.

[Olamagato]

Thanks also for the rocket attack fix tip.Do you also know what setting changes the accuracy of plane attacks using bombs?I set crewrating=4 in the mission
Do not place the aircraft with crew elite. Never. SH3 has a bug described in the GWX manual, which says that the crew = 4 setting is defective.
You can set more aircraft with crew = 3.
Perhaps this bug also applies to escort ships, but I'm not sure.

Next is the "she's going down" comment and cheers from crew.This just ruins immersion for me.
You can disable crew sound and WO text after torped hit but you can see still message stub "WO:".

[Vince82]

On the other hand, I have conducted many tests and changes in the cones horizontal angles (MaxBearing) of all sonars indicate that either the sonar does not participate in the detection of u-boot, or the angle of sonar cone is hardcoded in sh3.exe to 180 deg horizontal (like MaxBearing=90).


The whole AI_sensor.dat file doesnt make any sense to me at all. The active sensors are type hydrophone, while the passives are type sonar. The ai_sonar is type hydrophone (what does the file anyway?) and the AI_hydrophone is type sonar.

When a sensor is type hydrophone does that do anything? (perhaps it relates to the AI_sonar?). When u change the max bearing to 5 for example the AI can still find you while ur at lets say 70 bearing (silent running motor off). Or are AI_sonar and AI_hydrophone for your own crew maybe.

Did you ever test having AI_hydrophone AI_sonar and all active sensors max bearing set to a small arc? Dunno Stiebler said that the AI files don't really influence the Asdic sensor.

[Leitender]

Sensors.dat and AI_Sensors.dat imho work as intended. Please take a look at this thread about the mixture of types:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=184066&langid=5

Because this is simple flat texture. You can have 90 or 60 deg cone texture but it does not affect the AI sensors.
On the other hand, I have conducted many tests and changes in the cones horizontal angles (MaxBearing) of all sonars indicate that either the sonar does not participate in the detection of u-boot, or the angle of sonar cone is hardcoded in sh3.exe to 180 deg horizontal (like MaxBearing=90). You can perform the experiment by setting MaxBearing all sonar to 1 (cone 2 deg). You'll find that still escort will detect your u-boot from the side, not the bow. In contrast MaxBearing and MaxElevation setting for hydrophones works always correctly.olamagato
SH3 uses both sonar and hydrophone together while approaching and attacking a u-boat. Did you switch off the hydrophone sensor when testing the sonar sensor? Maybe you were attacked by the hydrophone still working for the firing solution? I did similar tests, an i could hear him pinging, when i was caught by sonar, and nothing, when attacked by hydropohne.

[Wolfstriked]

It would be awesome. Maybe it can be done another way, but I think it should be a very small chance like 1%. The DD captain would have to be pretty gutsy to try it because he also makes himself a sitting duck, that's why I would think it should be a small chance, but that small chance would be enough to make the player think about it. It would have to be used in bad visibility to be effective. Also, since he would have his engines shut down to make the tactic effective, the mod would have to make sure we get no dragster like acceleration out of the DD once it detects something. Given all these variables, it probably would be a difficult mod to make, even if it is possible at all. But it sure would be a great one if somebody could do it.




I don't like that either but I heard that might be hardcoded to where if removed the game will not reward renown for sinkings. To bad we couldn't report the fact we either witnessed the sinking(renown rewarded) or report that we heard torpedoes hit followed by breaking up noises, then upon confirmation of sinking by BDU, renown was awarded with a small chance of no confirmation(no renown). It would give the player more of an incentive to try to stick around the surface and witness the sinking and expose his boat to danger, making a bigger challenge.

You make me wonder if they actually did this.Reason is that if you cut your engines and then wait,you might be being viewed thru a tiny periscope at 800meters that is setting up a nice shot....as you pointed out yourself.

And yes YES YES. I love wondering if the ship needs another torpedo.And a message from BDU a day later reporting the two ships you hit but did not follow long enough to verify have in fact went down.:arrgh!:

[Wolfstriked]

Which file controls this? I would edit it even if this would make the guys handle the deckgun slightly less accurate. Deckgun accuracy isnt that important to me, AA gun is. Slightly less accurate AA gunners would make SH3 more realistic.

Its in sim.cfg

Do not place the aircraft with crew elite. Never. SH3 has a bug described in the GWX manual, which says that the crew = 4 setting is defective.
You can set more aircraft with crew = 3.
Perhaps this bug also applies to escort ships, but I'm not sure.


You can disable crew sound and WO text after torped hit but you can see still message stub "WO:".

Copy that....reverting back to 3.Yes I thought of removing the message and the cheers but there are other things that will still remain like not being able to lock onto a ship that is going down.



olamagato
SH3 uses both sonar and hydrophone together while approaching and attacking a u-boat. Did you switch off the hydrophone sensor when testing the sonar sensor? Maybe you were attacked by the hydrophone still working for the firing solution? I did similar tests, an i could hear him pinging, when i was caught by sonar, and nothing, when attacked by hydropohne.

Sometimes I notice they do not ping and use hydrophone to get your course and location but the depths are way off.Actually impressed by that when I see it.Not impressed when they just drop DC's very far from where you are.:rotfl2:

Still feel that a change to the system would net a better effect.

Much better hearing so that when close to ships in shallow water they hear you.Must dive deep to get silent running to work.

Smaller ASDIC cone just because I am a realism nut.

And a hardcoded time lapse wherein listening devices get a big penalty for a small amount of time,dependent on how long in real life this penalty actually persists.This is very important for shallow water attacks since its harder to get away with increased DD hearing.

[Leitender]

Just tested sonar cone again, hydrophone switched off, AI_visual restricted to 45° minelevation :D, flower, 1940 with ASDIC type 123A against Type VIIB at p-depth. With GWX-maxBearing=60° he found me at a distance of roundabout 600m with an offset to his course of 150m. Going down to 25m, he found me at about 800m. Everything allright. Then reduced maxbearing to 1°. The corvette passed me by at a distance of 150m without recognising my presence. I think, the maxbearing value of (at least this special) sonar sensor works how it should, without beeing replaced by a hardcoded sensor - wich exist, i know.

wolfstriked

Afaik, the destroyer´s behaviour (search circles, attack run, listening phases) ist hardcoded, I´ve never seen any settings to configure. So with DC pattern.

ASDIC and hydrophone work together, but not at the same time. How depth finding works...? I don´t know. Take a look into NYGM´s sensors. They are adapted to real life values (at least the underwater sensors).

[Olamagato]

Just tested sonar cone again, hydrophone switched off
How do you disable escort hydrophones?

AI_visual restricted to 45° minelevation
Why did a blind zone for aircraft detection over escorts? :)

Then reduced maxbearing to 1°. The corvette passed me by at a distance of 150m without recognising my presence.
Please repeat your test, set then ahead flank and observe whether your ship will be detected.
I repeated similar tests multiple times and the results were scattered for the detection of up to a lack of detection at full speed of my u-boot.

Afaik, the destroyer´s behaviour (search circles, attack run, listening phases) ist hardcoded

I agree.

ASDIC and hydrophone work together, but not at the same time. How depth finding works...? I don´t know.
sonar scan depth = arc tan((min(MaxElevation of equipped sonars & hydrophones) - 90 deg) * horizontal distance to u-boot < MaxRange of sonar)
real depth = max(scan depth, MinHeigth of equipped sonars & hydrophones)

[Stoli151]

You make me wonder if they actually did this.Reason is that if you cut your engines and then wait,you might be being viewed thru a tiny periscope at 800meters that is setting up a nice shot....as you pointed out yourself.
They mention DD's using this tactic in the movie "Das Boot", the movie being based off a book makes you wonder if it was in fact a real tactic or movie sensationalism. However, now I hardly ever have a look around with my periscope before surfacing as real captains did. If my sound man reports no contacts I figure I'm good. If somebody could tweak the AI to give me that small chance that something could be lurking around up there with it's engines off, it would cause me to act accordingly increasing immersion. For that reason it would be a cool mod if it were possible. The reason I even thought about this was when playing a couple days ago I kept the same course at silent running for very long time after hitting a large convoy in poor visibility. My sound man kept reporting no contacts so I decided to go up. Before I surfaced I actually decided to look around with my scope to actually see an escort bearing down on me from my stern to my surprise. Then he proceeded to let me have it as I attempted to crash dive. He must have been hanging out in my baffles the whole time since I never changed course and he either did not have active sonar or was not using it. But this close call made me think about what they said in "Das Boot" and if somebody could change AI behavior like that I figured it would be h.sie and his patch.

[Vince82]

Sensors.dat and AI_Sensors.dat imho work as intended. Please take a look at this thread about the mixture of types:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...84066&langid=5 (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=184066&langid=5)



Thx, Leitender that fixed the problem and there's a lot of helpfull information also. Now I only have to get my AI_sensor.dat in order as I'm still using the GWX one...


And thx Wolfstriked for pointing me to the sim.cfg. I don't think
[AI AA guns] controls the deckgun accuracy [AI Cannons] aswell, but it controls also allied AI machine gun fire I think.

Anyways I did some testing (going to flak school):

[AI AA guns]
Max error angle=17 ;[deg] default5
Max fire range=3500 ;[m]
Max fire wait=10 ;[s] default 6 (aiming time, getting the gun ready?)

I was happy with the results I got from an unqualified flak gunner. He could still gun down the slower planes but couldnt hit the faster ones which are very hard to hit anyways.

Max error angle=30 was unrealistic as I expected, so it should be somewhere between 17 and 30.

[Wolfstriked]

Just tested sonar cone again, hydrophone switched off, AI_visual restricted to 45° minelevation :D, flower, 1940 with ASDIC type 123A against Type VIIB at p-depth. With GWX-maxBearing=60° he found me at a distance of roundabout 600m with an offset to his course of 150m. Going down to 25m, he found me at about 800m. Everything allright. Then reduced maxbearing to 1°. The corvette passed me by at a distance of 150m without recognising my presence. I think, the maxbearing value of (at least this special) sonar sensor works how it should, without beeing replaced by a hardcoded sensor - wich exist, i know.

wolfstriked

Afaik, the destroyer´s behaviour (search circles, attack run, listening phases) ist hardcoded, I´ve never seen any settings to configure. So with DC pattern.

ASDIC and hydrophone work together, but not at the same time. How depth finding works...? I don´t know. Take a look into NYGM´s sensors. They are adapted to real life values (at least the underwater sensors).

If I am using GWX because I like its visuals:doh: can I can use NYGM sensors?

They mention DD's using this tactic in the movie "Das Boot", the movie being based off a book makes you wonder if it was in fact a real tactic or movie sensationalism. However, now I hardly ever have a look around with my periscope before surfacing as real captains did. If my sound man reports no contacts I figure I'm good. If somebody could tweak the AI to give me that small chance that something could be lurking around up there with it's engines off, it would cause me to act accordingly increasing immersion. For that reason it would be a cool mod if it were possible. The reason I even thought about this was when playing a couple days ago I kept the same course at silent running for very long time after hitting a large convoy in poor visibility. My sound man kept reporting no contacts so I decided to go up. Before I surfaced I actually decided to look around with my scope to actually see an escort bearing down on me from my stern to my surprise. Then he proceeded to let me have it as I attempted to crash dive. He must have been hanging out in my baffles the whole time since I never changed course and he either did not have active sonar or was not using it. But this close call made me think about what they said in "Das Boot" and if somebody could change AI behavior like that I figured it would be h.sie and his patch.

I completely understand.I had a wonderful game once where I was caught out in Scapa Flow area with severe damage where I was afraid to even dive to 30m.I came up nonchalantly in to severe fog and all was good for all of a sudden a task force appears out of the blue and at close range.I felt myself in the game and love when **** like that happens.

Would also love to see in SH3 is no sub icon when underwater.When you submerge you should be at mercy of the sea and evading for a few hours should have you wondering where you actually are.


Thx, Leitender that fixed the problem and there's a lot of helpfull information also. Now I only have to get my AI_sensor.dat in order as I'm still using the GWX one...


And thx Wolfstriked for pointing me to the sim.cfg. I don't think
[AI AA guns] controls the deckgun accuracy [AI Cannons] aswell, but it controls also allied AI machine gun fire I think.

Anyways I did some testing (going to flak school):

[AI AA guns]
Max error angle=17 ;[deg] default5
Max fire range=3500 ;[m]
Max fire wait=10 ;[s] default 6 (aiming time, getting the gun ready?)

I was happy with the results I got from an unqualified flak gunner. He could still gun down the slower planes but couldnt hit the faster ones which are very hard to hit anyways.

Max error angle=30 was unrealistic as I expected, so it should be somewhere between 17 and 30.

But max error angle controls the enemy cannon attacks on your sub also.17 means they will never hit you.Its been awhile since I messed with that but I remember setting it to 1.:rotfl2:

[Vince82]

But max error angle controls the enemy cannon attacks on your sub also.17 means they will never hit you.Its been awhile since I messed with that but I remember setting it to 1.:rotfl2:

That's why I was saying: it also controls allied AI machinegun fire. (edit 2x) I wonder how much it really affects the Allied capability of killing a U-boat. I'm not going change [AI cannons] so really it should only affects machine gun fire. Ur saying they never hit... well, I still got hit by machine guns when I tested it and most shots that missed came really close.


The thing is the surface will be a lot more dangerous when changing this stat as you cant just get a decent upgrade for your flak and than feel comfortable. You have to be a bit lucky to shoot down a plane and there will be a decent chance you'll run out of bullets at the end of a patrol when you do try to use 'wrong' tactics. So changing the AI AA might make the game more realistic. We have to do more testing to make sure. At least I'm curious to know if it will make the allied forces as bad as you say.

Machine guns are just a small part of the weapons they use, mostly depthcharges and bombs anyways. BTW which files control those stats, DCs and bombs? (edit: DC: depthcharges.zon)

edit:
[AI AA guns]
Max error angle=17 ;[deg] default5
Max fire range=3500 ;[m]
Max fire wait=10 ;[s] default 6 (aiming time, getting the gun ready?)

I was happy with the results I got from an unqualified flak gunner. He could still gun down the slower planes but couldnt hit the faster ones which are very hard to hit anyways.

Max error angle=30 was unrealistic as I expected, so it should be somewhere between 17 and 30.

edit: tried again flak gunner couldnt hit too much, a decent amount of the time way of target (flak gun was damaged). Machinegun fire from planes was everywhere from hits, close shots and some way of target. Bombs where always close to my boat.

edit2: tried a couple times more, very good results from flakgunner all the time even with gun damaged. Enemy planes preformed well, but bomb blast radious should be bigger maybe.

[Graf Paper]

If you observe the behavior of multiple escorts in GWX, you'll frequently see one DD sit dead in the water, listening for your u-boat while its comrades run search patterns with ASDIC or drop depth charges. Yet another reason why GWX is still the best all-around supermod.
I know the enemy "cheats" plenty when hunting you, since there are no thermoclines and sensors can see and hear through objects and land. Any mod that helps overcome these flaws and levels the playing field is automatically on my "must have" list.
h.sie and Stiebler are my new heroes for the awesome technical achievements they've accomplished with all the patches released, so far.
Many thanks to the rest of you, who have offered ideas and observations. You all have made my own SH3 experience that much more fun, exciting, and richer.

Don't ever stop! :D

[Wolfstriked]

That's why I was saying: it also controls allied AI machinegun fire. The thing is I wonder how much it really affects the Allied capability of killing a U-boat. I'm not going change [AI cannons] so really it should only affects machine gun fire. Ur saying they never hit... well, I still got hit by machine guns when I tested it and most shots that missed came really close.


The thing is the surface will be a lot more dangerous when changing this stat as you cant just get a decent upgrade for your flak and than feel comfortable. You have to be a bit lucky to shoot down a plane and there will be a decent chance you'll run out of bullets at the end of a patrol when you do try to use 'wrong' tactics. So changing the AI AA might make the game more realistic. We have to do more testing to make sure. At least I'm curious to know if it will make the allied forces as bad as you say.

Machine guns are just a small part of the weapons they use, mostly depthcharges and bombs anyways. BTW which files controls those stats, DCs and bombs?

I'll be honest and say I dive as soon as anything rears its head.I took this advice right from the beginning when I read that on here and never looked back.I set it very harsh though since I feel that you should have fear when on surface and dive right away and at default setting I could cruise around with looming destroyers off in distance throwing volleys at me.With harsher settings its dive asap or risk damage that now is a bitch to repair ala this patch.:DNo idea about the DC's and bombs though someone else would know as I have seen it mentioned in past.

[Leitender]

olamagato

How do you disable escort hydrophones?I switched off the hydro via sns-file:

NodeName=H01
LinkName=NULL

Try it and you will see. Otherwise, you will be discovered by hydrophone remaining your tests useless...

Why did a blind zone for aircraft detection over escorts?For testing purposes i set realism to 0%. So i can see the current escort´s sensor range on the F5 map, but only if the ship is in visual range. To assure that he´s not watching my periscope, i restrict AI_visual to a minelevation of, say, 45° (i could have set maxrange=1m e.g. instead, there´s no special reason for this value, only to be sure not to be seen from the corvette).

Thus i can see the the sonar cone while i´m at periscope depth with extended periscope. And yes, i know that the sonar cone is looking downwards. But when maxbearing value was stock 60° i was discovered at that position by sonar, in opposite to when it was at 1°. You can easily verify this with your "stealthmeter" indicator.

Another thing is, that he´s only pinging if he´s engaging you by sonar, imho, and vice versa. If he´s not pinging me, i´m not engaged by his sonar (but maybe by hydrophone!).

Please repeat your test, set then ahead flank and observe whether your ship will be detected.Afaik, sonar findings are not sound dependant but aspect dependant, from what i read in the sim.cfg file. But i will test this and report, though i believe you were discovered by hydrophone (which is sound dependant of course), if you haven´t switched it off.

How depth finding works...? I don´t know. I meant AI depth calculation for the DC´s by the escorts. I don´t know if they do some, dependant on the sub´s position, or if DC explosion depth is so to say "scripted". Sorry for my writing in an unclearly way.

wolfstriked

As far as i can see, all AI sensors within GWX´ AI_sensors.dat are included in NYGM´s AI_sensors.dat, so no sensor should be lost. But AI_sensors.dat, Sensors.dat, sim.cfg and sensors.cfg all together influence the AI (both enemy and crew) behaviour in general, and all these files are balanced in long testings by the mod teams, so i wouldn´t use only one single file from one big mod in another big mod.

Interesting findings about AI weapons, by the way. That would expain some odd behaviour in my own installation. Thanks.

Graf Paper

Completly agree!

[Olamagato]

I switched off the hydro via sns-file:
NodeName=H01
LinkName=NULL

OK, I understand. I thought that you use something more universal, as for all hydrophones MaxRange = 1 (m)

For testing purposes i set realism to 0%.Bad. Unfortunately, your tests thus became useless. SH3 then change scan parameters in a way not to identify. But every day you do not play with the level of realism 0%, right?

So i can see the current escort´s sensor range on the F5 mapMap is completely useless for any modder. What you see on the map not only has nothing to do with reality, but also has little to do with what is happening in the game.

To assure that he´s not watching my periscope, i restrict AI_visual to a minelevation of, say, 45° (i could have set maxrange=1m e.g. instead, there´s no special reason for this value, only to be sure not to be seen from the corvette).
MinElevation = 0 is the zenith. MinElevation = 90 forbidden to see objects above the sensor. To prohibit vision should set MaxElevation = 0-1 or MinElevation = 189-180. Or, simply set the MaxRange = 1

You can easily verify this with your "stealthmeter" indicator.Stealthmeter is not an indicator of detection. This is only an indicator of visibility and its noise. The red color of the indicator does not say that u-boot has been detected, a green that cannot be detected.

Afaik, sonar findings are not sound dependant but aspect dependant, from what i read in the sim.cfg file.In fact, the active sonar is not a detection device. Any detection requires of their element, which defines a passive sonar. It is very similar to the hydrophone. Indeed, a set of hydrophones is a part of passive sonar device. In SH3 game any type of passive sonar is identified with a hydrophone (as AI Hydrophone). Therefore, the equipment off H01 is equivalent to the glare around the sonar device. Even if the ping is heard, then a sonar active+passive does not detect anything (however, if it detects that you should tell about this case).
Probably the active and passive sonar interact in the game in such a way that when the active sonar beam reaching U-boat hull then very strong increase its own volume, so it can be easily detected by both the ai hydrophone or one of the models of passive sonar (Type QXXP or XXXP). Anyway, discover of how hydrophone/sonar is implemented in sh3 requires a lot of extra testing with any 3 impaired devices from this set:
1. ai default sonar
2. any type of active sonar
3. ai default hydrophone
4. any type of passive sonar.

[Vince82]

@Olamagato

I like the mod that you made for the AI sensors, got a couple of questions if you don't mind.

What does S.Detection stand for?

Why a Min Surface value for hydrophones (around 90)? Well I did see that you choose 0,1 for AI default... So how does it work?

[Olamagato]

@Olamagato
What does S.Detection stand for?
S.Detection = Single time detection.
This is a calculated distance threshold at which begins with double the scan time of the detector. Below this distance sensor detects with maximum efficiency. It is a simple calculation: S.Detection = MaxRange x Sensitivity. Needed to compute the scaling of the sensitivity of different types of passive sonar and hydrophone.

Why a Min Surface value for hydrophones (around 90)? Well I did see that you choose 0,1 for AI default... So how does it work?
Probably you had to deal with an early 1.0 version of the mod in which experimented strangest settings. Some of them were meaningless, but I checked everything to learn as much about the modus operandi of the detectors. Especially pair active sonar and passive sonar.

In the case of the hydrophones MinSurface counted on that there is bug in SH3 code, which will allow me to undermine this detector for active sonar.
MinSurface equal to 0 means that the value will be retrieved from a file sim.cfg, whose default value is 100m2. Only 0.1 ensures that the surface of the hull is irrelevant because this factor ceases to affect the detection. Anyway, it did not matter because the code to handle the hydrophone detector ignores this value.
Extensive tests are still ongoing.

[Vince82]

Anyway, it did not matter because the code to handle the hydrophone detector ignores this value.

Good! And thank you for your explaination and creating this mod, it's a big improvement.

Still I'm going to change the value of all hydrophone types in the AI_sensor.dat file to 0,1 just to make absolutely sure.

I think the Min surface settings you choose for the sonar are really good, I had them tweaked to 50. Which is close to what u got, however using one single value doesnt differentiate between the various sonar devices.

Please keep us updated by keeping a download link in your signature or something. That would be appreciated.

[utops]

Hi
Was september 7th 1939 near english coast.
Lone AWS Trawler menage to spot periscope or hear me on hydros ~2000m away from where and i was on silent running in rough waters .
This feels a little bit over the top,what i should do to make it GWX like?
There is option to mark in HsieOptionsSelector?
MODS:GWX 3.0,FM_Newinterior,Merchant Fleet, Thomsens Ships 4.4, Waterstream+Exhaust Combi.

[Leitender]

olamagato

let me first tell you that i´m fiddling around with sensor settings for weeks and months by myself and i was doing dozens of tests with them. So i saw that you are working with the same item. I also have an excel sheet about sensor data from you which was published here some time ago. So i read your posts here with courtesy and would be glad, if there would be some common results.

That´s why i was astonished about your findings about maxbearing of sonar, and my intention is not to harm you but to find out, if something is wrong with the ai_sensors.dat. Maybe i should have mentioned this first.

Another thing is, that i´m not really a modder, only a tester (though i modify data), but in my tests, the attacking corvette does exactly what i predicted. So i assume my test configuration to be correct, and the reduced realism settings (indeed, normally i play with 100%), are only a helping mean to see on the map what´s going on.

I never realised that there´s a difference in AI behaviour depending on the realism settings, did you? Which setting is responsible for this? I mean, the realism value itself should only affect the captain´s renown, shouldn´t it?

So i reviewed realism settings, but all but one refer to the player or his boat. Only one setting affects ai behaviour: realistic ship sinking time. But i don´t believe this having any affect on ai sensors.

Again i tested for several hours: First changed AI_visual to maxrange=10m, like recommended (minelevation returned to 0°). Then again switched off all sensors of my corvette besides sonar (N01) and visual (O01): When i was within its sonar cone, i got attacked. Repeated several times, same result

Then i reduced maxbearing=1°, nothing else changed and the result always was the same: No reaction, no matter if i was at 0% or at 100% realism. ALso repeated this test several times and always got the same result.

It seems to me that the maxbearing sonar value within the ai_sensors.dat works correct.

(Furthermore, i switched off AI_visual, because SH3 uses another visual sensor. If you use map updates, you can see that the range of this visual sensor is 10km! I don´t know, where this sensor is stowed, so an assumption may be that there are other sensors elsewhere. Then i completely deleted the sns-file of the flower corvette and tested again: I could see the visual range circle on the nav map, but no other circles where shown. The corvette passed me by and didn´t react on me at all. So it seems that no other "spare" sensors are used than the above mentioned visual sensor.


PS: Sound dependancy of sonar recognition is still to be tested. Also I agree that there´s no minsurface dependancy of the hydrophone...
Interesting your "s.Detection" calculation. But does it really works in that way? I often testet sensitivity values within sim.cfg (espescially visual), but couldn´t get reproducable results while variing the sensitivity factor at a wide range.

[Olamagato]

So i saw that you are working with the same item.
At the beginning I wanted to apologize for the unpleasant form of my post. Behaved like a jerk, who seems to know everything. And it's not.
Your test results are quite interesting, although different from my results.

in my tests, the attacking corvette does exactly what i predicted.I understand, though you have hundreds of test results in accordance with expectations and it still will not confirm anything. While a single test that gives a result contrary to expectations it gives a lot more information.

So i assume my test configuration to be correct, and the reduced realism settings (indeed, normally i play with 100%), are only a helping mean to see on the map what´s going on.Attaching anything to the map view for me is just too uncertain to draw on this basis some conclusions. Perhaps the view of the detectors on the map corresponds to what is going on in the game, but it can not be sure.

I never realised that there´s a difference in AI behaviour depending on the realism settings, did you? Which setting is responsible for this? I mean, the realism value itself should only affect the captain´s renown, shouldn´t it?Typically, in many games difficulty settings change its action and its interaction with the AI. And since we do not know how realism affects the game, you can nothing assume on this basis.

Again i tested for several hours: First changed AI_visual to maxrange=10m, like recommended (minelevation returned to 0°). Then again switched off all sensors of my corvette besides sonar (N01) and visual (O01): When i was within its sonar cone, i got attacked. Repeated several times, same resultThis is a very interesting result because it would appear that the sonar is in the SH3 independent detector, which has nothing to do with passive sonar or AI default hydrophone.
However, I also carry out such tests in the past. Does not remove the device "H01" from a specially crafted ship, but I changed MaxRange = 1 for devices "AI default hydrophone" and all passive sonar (TypeXXXP and QXXP). I got these results that all escort ships stopped detecting my u-boot. Even if the u-boot was terribly noisy.

Then i reduced maxbearing=1°, nothing else changed and the result always was the same: No reaction, no matter if i was at 0% or at 100% realism. ALso repeated this test several times and always got the same result.I will try to repeat your tests as you did and a few variations. If it is found that the sonar in SH3 is really a stand-alone detector, it is really make progress with finding the best set of detectors for escort ships - as historically accurate as possible. Which also means that no-nonsense such as detecting stationary U-boat on silent running from a distance 7 km, the effective sonar detection of noiseless U-boat in the front area of the ship escorts from a distance 0,1-2 km, but also gives a real chance to escape or seabed repairs (without 100% chance of death).

It seems to me that the maxbearing sonar value within the ai_sensors.dat works correct.Tell me please if your u-boot was found in the angle of the cone in front of the escort ship? If you lower MaxBearing = 10, then your-boot should be detected only at the time when the corvette will excelled bow in your U-boat. Can you verify this? Did your u-boat is detected also in silent running mode?
I'll try to repeat my tests in a similar way.

Interesting your "s.Detection" calculation. But does it really works in that way? I often testet sensitivity values within sim.cfg (espescially visual), but couldn´t get reproducable results while variing the sensitivity factor at a wide range.



This division of the detector area ranges from MinRange to "S.Detection range" and the "S.Detection range" to MaxRange serves only to ease the comparison to determine the effective range (and hence the sensitivity). The point is that my goal was also to smooth scaling of these parameters sonar and hydrophones, for which we do not have accurate data.

Best regards.:salute:

[Leitender]

At the beginning I wanted to apologize for the unpleasant form of my post.

Not necessary. Usually, poor sailor´s answer is a short but hard jab. After this, they normally become friends.:03:


Attaching anything to the map view for me is just too uncertain to draw on this basis some conclusions. Perhaps the view of the detectors on the map corresponds to what is going on in the game, but it can not be sure.

Typically, in many games difficulty settings change its action and its interaction with the AI. And since we do not know how realism affects the game, you can nothing assume on this basis.


For me it´s the only testing configuration. And, of course, the help shows indeed few information about enemy sensors: maxrange and maxbearing. No elevation, no minrange, nothing else. Maybe minbearing, but never tested. I can see a correspondence between this helping circles and the data within ai_sensors. Why should this help use another data base? So when these values work, my asumption remains that all other data work, too.


However, I also carry out such tests in the past. Does not remove the device "H01" from a specially crafted ship, but I changed MaxRange = 1 for devices "AI default hydrophone" and all passive sonar (TypeXXXP and QXXP). I got these results that all escort ships stopped detecting my u-boot. Even if the u-boot was terribly noisy.


To be honest, i would expect the same result. If they weren´t at "high alert" status (which means you haven´t been detected before) they´re continuing their walk until you get into their sonar range, unconcerned about your noise.

Another thing is, that there´s no ship at all which is equipped with an "AI_hydrophone" . Don´t know for which reason these "AI" sensors are contained in the AI_sensors.dat. Maybe a relict from testing phase or even older parts (SH2?).


Tell me please if your u-boot was found in the angle of the cone in front of the escort ship? If you lower MaxBearing = 10, then your-boot should be detected only at the time when the corvette will excelled bow in your U-boat. Can you verify this? Did your u-boat is detected also in silent running mode?




I placed my boat 150 to 200m side offset to the escort´s course. When maxbearing of sonar was 60°, i´ve been detected every time by sonar (and i heard the pings), because of its original range of 1200m. At maxbearing=1°, i was not in his cone at all, so he didn´t engage me. I believe there´s no "supervisor" sonar. I also tested without rig for silent running, because afaik sonar detection is not sound dependant (there´s no sound factor within sim.cfg, in contrast to the hydrophone settings). But I know that there´s an aspect dependant detection of the sonar. Stiebler always uses an aspect of 100m², but in earlier tests, i only realized a difference between bow on and bow off at a minsurface of 50m². I should have repeated this tests, as a have to repeat my sonar detection test while silent running and while ahead flank.

Best regards :salute:

[Consigliere]

Hi, h.sie. I have some question regarding your patch kit.
Sorry for not testing some of those myself, but i've just uninstalled the game and would make a fresh installation in some time with your patch. So, to the questions:
1) Hydrophone-Fix. As I do understand your patch tries to make a game more RL style, but that thing is not realistic. The realistic approach is to make the hydrophones work less effective depending on the depth (deeper - more efficient work) and to make them less effective on the rear side of the boat (a cone between 135 and 225 degrees). So, would it be possible to implement such approach?
2) External torpedo reload fix. The manual states that "The time necessary to interrupt... is randomly chosen between 4 and 13 minutes". Is it possible to make it relative to the values from the .sim files (time to revert = value from .sim/% progress made)?
3) Internal torpedo reload fix. The manual states that no reload possible "during storm and when surfaced". It's not clear if those are two individual or simultaneous conditions...
4) Move 1WO to bridge. Wow, that is the thing i've dreamed about for many years playing stock SH3. Thanx. Now that you have managed to do this, the question is: is it possible to remove the restriction to have watchmen and... deck and especialy flak gunners on surface at the same time?
5) Oxygen-Supply. Great addition to game strategy level. Thanx. But it's not clear from the manual: what's with your O2 renewable part when you are snorkeling?
6) Battery Discharge Bugfix. Never been in such situation due to this bug, but... If you are a little above crash depth and with this fix have run out of battery power... will you ever be able to surface without any propulsion?
7) Diesel Damages Fix. Great add to strategy level also. Thanx. Two questions: a) does your formula takes into account diesel upgrade values from basic.cfg file (speedboost param), which are greater than 1.00 in stock SH3, if i do remember correctly? and b) is it possible to make all of the equipment damageable through usage (for example, the damage can occur at any moment but the longer you are in a patrol - the greater the chance, and the level of damage is randomly chosen of course between 1 and 100%)?
Would be nice if you could answer, and of course many thanks for your hard work on this patch.

[drakkhen20]

i havent been on in a year now and i have the old patch on my exe. the 15 version. so how do i go to 16 version. i tried the addon one but everytime i activate the batch file it like makes my exe file disappear and it creates an old file exe. so what am i doing wrong here ?

[drakkhen20]

yes just to make sure i looked it up again. i have v15 patched exe. so how do i patch to the current one ? because when i place the stock sh3.exe in the v16 patch file and activate the batch file it tells me its the wrong version or its not compatible. so i think i need help here . thanks.:salute:

[Olamagato]

To be honest, i would expect the same result. If they weren´t at "high alert" status (which means you haven´t been detected before) they´re continuing their walk until you get into their sonar range, unconcerned about your noise.

The biggest problem with SH3 detectors is that the self-noise apparently affects the active sonar. Or otherwise silent running effectively eliminates the detection, which should be properly guaranteed.


Another thing is, that there´s no ship at all which is equipped with an "AI_hydrophone" . Don´t know for which reason these "AI" sensors are contained in the AI_sensors.dat. Maybe a relict from testing phase or even older parts (SH2?).

I am inclined to believe that the "AI default hydrophone" is hard-coded detector, which is present in each unit. Note that the vast difference in the detection of u-boat between stock SH3 and GWX is only one difference: Change MaxRange from 600m to 7km.


I also tested without rig for silent running, because afaik sonar detection is not sound dependant (there´s no sound factor within sim.cfg, in contrast to the hydrophone settings). But I know that there´s an aspect dependant detection of the sonar.

Therefore, this aspect of the tests used to set the value of 0.1 m, which guarantees that the game does not reject the detection of u-boat if other conditions are met. It did not matter whether I set this for each of sonars individually or set the default value when all sonar models will have a 0m2 value aspect.
For a long time trying to eliminate the influence of silent running on the sonar and still this effect does exist.

Stiebler always uses an aspect of 100m², but in earlier tests, i only realized a difference between bow on and bow off at a minsurface of 50m.

For such a big weakness sonar is a better approach in my opinion, underestimating this value to sonar detect better than overstating it to detect worse. From what I know in reality the Allies sonar technology was very efficient, but in a passive targeting were much weaker than the Germans. That is why the game should reflect this.

[Vince82]

@ Consigliere

You ask a lot of questions. I'll answer two of them for you.


1) Hydrophone-Fix. As I do understand your patch tries to make a game more RL style, but that thing is not realistic. The realistic approach is to make the hydrophones work less effective depending on the depth (deeper - more efficient work) and to make them less effective on the rear side of the boat (a cone between 135 and 225 degrees). So, would it be possible to implement such approach?


That's the hydrophone layer mod.


6) Battery Discharge Bugfix. Never been in such situation due to this bug, but... If you are a little above crash depth and with this fix have run out of battery power... will you ever be able to surface without any propulsion?


Try pressing 'E'.

[drakkhen20]

nevermind everyone. i figured it out. thannks for all the helpful posts. :up:

[Consigliere]

@ Vince82
@ Consigliere
You ask a lot of questions. I'll answer two of them for you.

Of course, I do. There are a lot of changes, and I have a lot of questions.
@ Consigliere
...
That's the hydrophone layer mod.

No, this patch does not simulate layers in any way. It just disables hydrophones when diesels are working. That is not realistic. The realistic approach was disclosed in my post. Moreover such an approach could allow to simulate layers, if h.Sie would manade to randomise the level of hydrophone work according to sub's death.
For a good layer simulation on a sub game try 688(i) hunter/killer (it's not about WW2 german sub, but about modern nuclear US one).
@ Consigliere
...
Try pressing 'E'.
Yes, do know of blowing balast, of course. Just never been in such a situation due to the original bug.

@h.Sie
And I've just thougth of a little proposal. Could you add a function to the .bat file (and a patcher?) to first check an .old file in a working directory, and if it exists - copy it to .exe and patch. If it doesn't exists - look for .exe file.

[h.sie]

I'm sorry to leave you alone with your questions, but real life issues don't allow me to fulfil any wishes, nor even to discuss about what is realistic and what is not. There have always been a lot of controverse views about realism here. That will not change.

My fixes are not "realistic", they are, "what I think could be realistic".

So if you don't like some of the fixes, simply disable them via the OptionsSelector, or - provided you know assembler - change the fix as you like.

Best wishes, guys!
h.sie

[Consigliere]

Hm... Just one of my questions was somehow related to realism... But was mostly focused on programming.
It's a pity you can't provide a feedback on your great patch in respect to community members for the respect of your work which the community members provide you through trusting your code.
Best wishes in your "real life issues" and once again thanks for your moding work.
Consigliere

[Stoli151]

h.sie- I was wondering if somebody was interested in doing so could a version of your patch be possible for sh4? I was just wondering if you thought it was possible, given the two game engines are similar. I do enjoy sh3, but I also enjoy sh4's better graphics. I was thinking that as many people upgrade their hardware maybe sh4 might start to have more appeal since it is very similar to sh3 in gameplay. Maybe some of the great mods from sh3 could just be redone for sh4. Please don't think I am asking for anything other than your opinion, I know you have stated you are getting burned out with modding. Thanks.

[Dani]

h.sie- I was wondering if somebody was interested in doing so could a version of your patch be possible for sh4? I was just wondering if you thought it was possible, given the two game engines are similar. I do enjoy sh3, but I also enjoy sh4's better graphics. I was thinking that as many people upgrade their hardware maybe sh4 might start to have more appeal since it is very similar to sh3 in gameplay. Maybe some of the great mods from sh3 could just be redone for sh4. Please don't think I am asking for anything other than your opinion, I know you have stated you are getting burned out with modding. Thanks.

+1:up:

[drakkhen20]

DX9HiResFix
_LSH3_V5
_LSH3_V5.1
_LSH3_V5.1__Bunkerstart
_LSH3_V5.1__ExtendedChallenge
_LSH3_V5.1__Rotating-DF-Antenna_V3
M.E.P v3
MaGui F
MaGui F FIX for LSH3 v5.1
German Images for MaGui F
TorpedoSolutionButton for MaGui F (LSH3)
Type VII salvo selector
_LSH3_V5.1_SLS_Schiffshorn-Leuchtkugeln-Seenotsignal
_LSH3_V5.1_SLS_Spezialeffekte-Gross
Drakkhen - Better Sound Mod
Waterstream+Exhaust Combi V2.3 for GWX3
TheDarkWraith_DC_Water_Disturbance_v1_0_SH3
TheDarkWraith_Ship_Plane_Fire_Damage_v1_4_SH3
Stiebler3_Addon_for_V16B1
O2-Gauges v2
Torpedo_HAHD_1024_GWX

ok so when im on patrol my little messager ticker will just pop up with like "WE:" or "CE:" but it wont say anything and when i send a patrol report and recieve one it contains no text so whats going on with this?

[Parkera]

From the 1st page:
4) The patcher will remove the copy protection of your sh3.exe. Since this is not legal, you must not use this patcher if you have a copy-protected version.

pLEASE CAN YOU CLARIFY this for me. What do you mean by copy protected? I have org Cd and when i start a game (even with Commander)the thing comes up looking for the cd. Is this the same or something else? Ya mod sounds great and would love to install but dont wanna risk it in case.

[h.sie]

@Stoli: Although I don't know sh4.exe, it's surely possible - provided that you find someone who knows assembler and is willing to spend more than 18 months, 4 hours a day for programming.

@drakkhen: The messages didn't find their way into the game. Try to reread the manual carefully.

@Yes, you seem to have the copy protected sh3.exe. Using the patcher and removing the copy protection would be against law.

[Stiebler]

@Stoli: Although I don't know sh4.exe, it's surely possible - provided that you find someone who knows assembler and is willing to spend more than 18 months, 4 hours a day for programming.And provided also that you can find someone who uses SH4/U-boats a lot, or is willing to spend 3-6 months learning how to play SH4.
How can modders fix bugs/omissions in SH4 until they are familiar with the problems? H.sie has not played SH4. (Neither have I.)

Stiebler.

[drakkhen20]

well is it something i have to do manually or do i have to line them up diffrently in my "activated mod" list? what does it mean when that happens, what are they supposed to be saying ?:salute:

[Lance71]

Hello, gentlemen!:salute:

@H.see
Sir, could you add the automatic shutdown of the gramophone in a stormy sea to your wonderful mod, please?
If it is not difficult for you.
I think you can use a scheme similar to the torpedo loading scheme (wind over 8 m / s or less than 16 m depth).

Thank you very much! :salute:

Best regards, Lance71

[Lance71]

@drakkhen20
You have not enabled the folder Supplement to V16B1 (JSGME) as a single mod.
This folder contains the texts of officers and more ...
Detailed installation instructions, see the file Readme_V16B1.pdf

Best regards, Lance71

[drakkhen20]

Well its enabled in the mod enabler or do I have to do that manually? Ill take another look at the readme too. Sometimes it can get confusing.

[drakkhen20]

ok from reading,lol. it says to "append" some coding into the english menu file. so does this mean copy and paste ?:hmmm:

[Lance71]

@drakkhen20

Yes. Select text from "_Append_to_en_menu.txt", and paste it at the end of "en_menu.txt" in folder "Supplement to V16B1 (JSGME)\Data\Menu".
After that enable "Supplement to V16B1 (JSGME)" as another mod.

Best regards, Lance71

[drakkhen20]

ok ill try that later. gotta go to work. give feedback later. thanks
:yeah:

[drakkhen20]

ok i was playing the Wolfpack in single missions to test it out. now i got the messages to hold and all that. so how long does it take for the ai uboats to get there and how will i know when they are on location? i didnt finish the mission because the escort finally spotted me. so what am i looking for in future reference? thanks

:salute:

[drakkhen20]

lol, nevermind guys. i got figured it out. its called read the manual.:doh::oops::up:

[VONHARRIS]

May be not the correct thread but I will ask

I have already patched my game with h.sie V16B1 patch and it works fine.

I am trying to use the Stiebler3_Addon_for_V16B1 and I get this message:

http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/2370/14201387.jpg

Despite the "Stiebler Patch completed" message I don't have the new SH3.exe file at all. I only have the Sh3.old file.

Any help is more than welcome
Thank you in advance.

[drakkhen20]

yes that happened to me also. start with a fresh untouched sh3.exe file and patch as you did and then run that patch. but follow the readme file word for word and do exactly what it tells you and youll be fine.

[VONHARRIS]

yes that happened to me also. start with a fresh untouched sh3.exe file and patch as you did and then run that patch. but follow the readme file word for word and do exactly what it tells you and youll be fine.

Thanks for the tip.
It worked but now the game crashed.
I will look into it.
At least , I have a starting point now.

[goobledeygook]

Just found about this mod and installed it. Got it running and
seems to be working as it should. Thanks a lot. Enjoy the
fact you can pick and choose which fixes to enable and
which to leave out. Very happy I no longer have to drag
that Watch officer to his station :D. That fix alone will
eventually save people an aggregate of millions of mouse clicks.

[Stevetry]

ok from reading,lol. it says to "append" some coding into the english menu file. so does this mean copy and paste ?:hmmm:

ho do you get it to work ? cuz i read the manual added t he tex and i am still getting blank messages

ok so do i add

;------------------------------------
; Messages for h.sie sh3.exe patch
; -----------------------------------
; Simply append the following lines
; to your en_menu.txt.
;------------------------------------

4814=Fog disappears.
4818=Fog sighted.

4815=Oxygen: %02.0f Percent.
4816=Oxygen back to normal: 21 Percent.
4817=Oxygen too low. Using oxygen supply.

4819=Reloading external torpedoes.
4820=External torpedoes reloaded.
4821=Bad weather. Cannot reload external torpedoes.
4822=Alaaaarm! We must wait %2.0f minutes to dive.
4823=We must wait %2.0f minutes to dive.
4824=We can dive now, Sir.

4825=;
4826=Reloading torpedoes.
4827=Sea state too harsh. We must dive deeper to reload torpedoes!

4830=Repairs and refuelling at U-Tanker finished. %1.0f Torpedoes loaded.
4831=Weather too bad. Docking not possible.
4832=Repeated docking not possible.
4833=Docking not possible for Uboat types II and XXI.


; BDU-Messages
;-------------
; General
4835=Only sink hostile ships, you amateur!
4836=Error in transmission! Repeat last message!
4837=Start return! Home base as directed!

; Congratulations for achievement of new tonnage-category
4838=Very good results! ; 20000- 40000t
4839=Congratulations! Excellent results! ; 40000- 60000t
4840=Germany salutes you and your crew! ; 60000- 80000t
4841=That is worth an award! ; 80000-100000t
4842=Congratulations - new wearer of the Knight***30196; Cross! ; > 100000t

; For sinking >15000t
4843=Great work! That will hurt the enemy!
4844=Bravo! Excellent shooting!

; For sinking >10000t
4845=Very good work! A decisive blow!
4846=Bravo! But next time near enemy destroyers!

; For sinking >2000t
4847=Nice work! Carry on!
4848=Good work! Continue search for single ships.
4849=Well done! Keep at it!
4850=Sinking registered. Report any survivors immediately!

; Occasional communications
4851=Message received. Continue as ordered!
4852=Signal received.
4853=Short-signal received. Expect next status- and weather- news in 24h.
4854=Signal acknowledged. Stay alert.
4855=Message acknowledged. We have high expectations!
4856=Message received. Beware of aircraft!
4857=Message acknowledged. All further transmissions on long-wave 20.4kHz.
4858=Signal acknowledged. Use short-wave until further notice.

; For motivation
4859=Be more aggressive! We need better results!
4860=Show more courage! Charge at the enemy!
4861=You can***31258; come home with fully-loaded torpedo-tubes!
4862=Attack! Shoot! Sink!


;-------------------------------
; Wolfpack Mod
;-------------------------------

; BDU orders to attack alone
4863=Full freedom of manoeuvre granted.
4864=Individual attack recommended.
4865=Attack at discretion.
4866=Attack on your own. Good luck.

; BDU responses on 1st contact report
4867=Good work! Maintain contact. Homing signals every hour.
4868=You are the contact holder. Transmit hourly. Other boats on way.
4869=Curb your impatience! Support is on way. Hourly transmissions needed.
4870=At last a convoy! Stick with it until pack arrives. Request hourly updates.

; BDU responses on 2nd and later contact reports
4871=Signal received. Continue hourly transmission.
4872=Signal acknowledged. Continue holding contact.
4873=Good work. Hourly transmissions needed.
4874=Continue holding contact.
4875=Shadow the convoy. Transmit hourly.
4876=Signal received. Hold contact. Good luck.
4877=Hold contact. Beware of escorts.
4878=Contact report received. Hourly transmissions needed.
4879=Pack is on the way. Homing signals every hour.
4880=Other boats are on the way. Continue hourly transmission.

; Wolfpack in position. Attack will come soon.
4881=Pack has assembled. Expect joint attack tonight. Radio silence from now on.
4882=Pack reports contact. You are released for attack. Radio silence from now on.
4883=Other boats in interception position. Attack at will. Radio silence from now on.
4884=Boats in position. Commence operation tonight. Attack! Sink!

; Wolfpack has problems to reach operation area. BDU orders to attack alone.
4885=Pack is low on fuel. You are on your own - good luck!
4886=Pack reports local fog. You are cleared for solo attack.
4887=Weather expected to deteriorate. Attack at dusk.
4888=Pack unable to reach operation area. Attack alone!

; Wolfpack cannot reach operation area due to massive enemy activity.
4889=Enemy reinforcements will join convoy tomorrow. Don***31258; wait for others, attack tonight.
4890=Pack has disbanded. Attack at will.
4891=Pack reports strong enemy activity around convoy. Assume you must attack alone.
4892=Contact to pack lost. Attack alone!

; For Diesel Damages Mod
4893=If we don't cut power now, we're risking a breakdown!
4894=Yes, sir, everything we've got!

all that to the file or just this

4814=Fog disappears.
4818=Fog sighted.

4815=Oxygen: %02.0f Percent.
4816=Oxygen back to normal: 21 Percent.
4817=Oxygen too low. Using oxygen supply.

4819=Reloading external torpedoes.
4820=External torpedoes reloaded.
4821=Bad weather. Cannot reload external torpedoes.
4822=Alaaaarm! We must wait %2.0f minutes to dive.
4823=We must wait %2.0f minutes to dive.
4824=We can dive now, Sir.

4825=;
4826=Reloading torpedoes.
4827=Sea state too harsh. We must dive deeper to reload torpedoes!

4830=Repairs and refuelling at U-Tanker finished. %1.0f Torpedoes loaded.
4831=Weather too bad. Docking not possible.
4832=Repeated docking not possible.
4833=Docking not possible for Uboat types II and XXI.


; BDU-Messages
;-------------
; General
4835=Only sink hostile ships, you amateur!
4836=Error in transmission! Repeat last message!
4837=Start return! Home base as directed!

; Congratulations for achievement of new tonnage-category
4838=Very good results! ; 20000- 40000t
4839=Congratulations! Excellent results! ; 40000- 60000t
4840=Germany salutes you and your crew! ; 60000- 80000t
4841=That is worth an award! ; 80000-100000t
4842=Congratulations - new wearer of the Knight***30196; Cross! ; > 100000t

; For sinking >15000t
4843=Great work! That will hurt the enemy!
4844=Bravo! Excellent shooting!

; For sinking >10000t
4845=Very good work! A decisive blow!
4846=Bravo! But next time near enemy destroyers!

; For sinking >2000t
4847=Nice work! Carry on!
4848=Good work! Continue search for single ships.
4849=Well done! Keep at it!
4850=Sinking registered. Report any survivors immediately!

; Occasional communications
4851=Message received. Continue as ordered!
4852=Signal received.
4853=Short-signal received. Expect next status- and weather- news in 24h.
4854=Signal acknowledged. Stay alert.
4855=Message acknowledged. We have high expectations!
4856=Message received. Beware of aircraft!
4857=Message acknowledged. All further transmissions on long-wave 20.4kHz.
4858=Signal acknowledged. Use short-wave until further notice.

; For motivation
4859=Be more aggressive! We need better results!
4860=Show more courage! Charge at the enemy!
4861=You can***31258; come home with fully-loaded torpedo-tubes!
4862=Attack! Shoot! Sink!


;-------------------------------
; Wolfpack Mod
;-------------------------------

; BDU orders to attack alone
4863=Full freedom of manoeuvre granted.
4864=Individual attack recommended.
4865=Attack at discretion.
4866=Attack on your own. Good luck.

; BDU responses on 1st contact report
4867=Good work! Maintain contact. Homing signals every hour.
4868=You are the contact holder. Transmit hourly. Other boats on way.
4869=Curb your impatience! Support is on way. Hourly transmissions needed.
4870=At last a convoy! Stick with it until pack arrives. Request hourly updates.

; BDU responses on 2nd and later contact reports
4871=Signal received. Continue hourly transmission.
4872=Signal acknowledged. Continue holding contact.
4873=Good work. Hourly transmissions needed.
4874=Continue holding contact.
4875=Shadow the convoy. Transmit hourly.
4876=Signal received. Hold contact. Good luck.
4877=Hold contact. Beware of escorts.
4878=Contact report received. Hourly transmissions needed.
4879=Pack is on the way. Homing signals every hour.
4880=Other boats are on the way. Continue hourly transmission.

; Wolfpack in position. Attack will come soon.
4881=Pack has assembled. Expect joint attack tonight. Radio silence from now on.
4882=Pack reports contact. You are released for attack. Radio silence from now on.
4883=Other boats in interception position. Attack at will. Radio silence from now on.
4884=Boats in position. Commence operation tonight. Attack! Sink!

; Wolfpack has problems to reach operation area. BDU orders to attack alone.
4885=Pack is low on fuel. You are on your own - good luck!
4886=Pack reports local fog. You are cleared for solo attack.
4887=Weather expected to deteriorate. Attack at dusk.
4888=Pack unable to reach operation area. Attack alone!

; Wolfpack cannot reach operation area due to massive enemy activity.
4889=Enemy reinforcements will join convoy tomorrow. Don***31258; wait for others, attack tonight.
4890=Pack has disbanded. Attack at will.
4891=Pack reports strong enemy activity around convoy. Assume you must attack alone.
4892=Contact to pack lost. Attack alone!

; For Diesel Damages Mod
4893=If we don't cut power now, we're risking a breakdown!
4894=Yes, sir, everything we've got!


and to what part ? the beggining of the file or the middle or the end before or after this ?

; last index is given by MaxStrings entry (at the begining of this file)
; if you add new items here, over the last entry, MaxStrings should be updated accordingly

[Olamagato]

You can put it end. This is not important (just a comment). And default MaxStrings=5000 in SH3

[CherryHarbey]

I've been away from SH3 for a while but included the latest patch on my new laptop. Great work again from H.Sie and supporting modders.

[Regoc]

Hello

I'm newcomer :). Well in last few weeks read almost 1k pages of tutorials, read me files...ect.

Today will try instal this exelent mod/patch.

Question: is compatibile with SH3 Comander? ( i'm not lazy but here is more than 200 pages)

THX to all mod creators to make this game so good.

Play gwx 3.0 , 91 % reality ( event camera is too much fun, and use WO but only for identification of ship- to lazy for rush through book when i already know which ship is it)

P.S. sorry on my english

[ryanwigginton]

Question: is compatibile with SH3 Comander?

Yes, it is.

[Regoc]

Thx for fast response :)

[HEMISENT]

Just getting back into SH3 after a couple years away.

I have GWX3 and H.sie's mod working on a fresh install as required. Per the install readme the V16B1 label is in the lower right corner.

The readme instructions for installing Steiblers supplement say to put the patched SH3.exe in Stieblers folder with the 4 dll's then enable the supplement (after the two menu files and wolfpack addons). GWX generates it's own exe icon which I patched. With the GWX version of the .exe the game plays perfectly but the supplement does not work. If I use the original patched SH3.exe I get a message about missing dll's.

Anyone have an idea about this. I've been through the threads and cannot find any other similiar situations.

[U-snafu]

I dunno if this is the problem or may help......but...after enabling the supplement folder mod in JSGME----then go to the SHII directory and use the SHHII launch Icon. (you shouls notice a size difference between an unpatched exe icon (1.26mb) vs a correct patched one (1.32mb). Enabling the supplement mod (that you copied the patched exe into) will overwrite the old one in the directory while it's enabled.



I had a similar problem while I was still trying to launch the game with an old shortcut icon.

[HEMISENT]

Hi U-Snafu
Just tried it and no good, if I use the 1.32 mb .exe located in the SH3 root folder the game starts and runs perfectly with H.sie's patch but Stiebler's supplement will not take.

If I take the patched SH3.exe and move it to Stiebler's Supplement folder (as per instructions) the "missing dll's" message comes on.

[Wreford-Brown]

Having seen the difficulties that some people are having in applying h.sie's mod, I've created a little mod (http://www.mediafire.com/?5icqskjuo2u0rmx) to make it easier to merge h.sie's campaign file into their own and to add lines to en_menu.

There are two parts:
1. A 'How to...' merge h.sie's campaign file with your own using SH3 Mission Editor.
2. A small SH3 Commander mod that automatically adds the en_menu and de_menu lines using the power of SH3 Commander - no more manual inserting of lines.

This mod is nothing more than a little repacking of h.sie's original mod and he has kindly given me permission to release it. All the information contained in the mod remains the property of h.sie.

[Sittingwolf]

Afternoon gentlemen,

When you order "rig for silent running" you still can use the scopes and open torpedoes covers. Is that possible to make it impossible any more? It would become possible again, when you secure from silent running.

[Fubar2Niner]

Having seen the difficulties that some people are having in applying h.sie's mod, I've created a little mod (http://www.mediafire.com/?5icqskjuo2u0rmx) to make it easier to merge h.sie's campaign file into their own and to add lines to en_menu.

There are two parts:
1. A 'How to...' merge h.sie's campaign file with your own using SH3 Mission Editor.
2. A small SH3 Commander mod that automatically adds the en_menu and de_menu lines using the power of SH3 Commander - no more manual inserting of lines.

This mod is nothing more than a little repacking of h.sie's original mod and he has kindly given me permission to release it. All the information contained in the mod remains the property of h.sie.

Thanks very much for this WB, and thank you h.sie for your permissions. :salute:

[dariocapcro]

Hello everyone, I have a problem, I bought SH3 revival, version 1.4b, do we not receive h.sie V16B1 patch, can somebody help, thank you, I really like SH3 and I'd love you to solve this problem, greetings from Croatian

[Rhodes]

Having seen the difficulties that some people are having in applying h.sie's mod, I've created a little mod (http://www.mediafire.com/?5icqskjuo2u0rmx) to make it easier to merge h.sie's campaign file into their own and to add lines to en_menu.

There are two parts:
1. A 'How to...' merge h.sie's campaign file with your own using SH3 Mission Editor.
2. A small SH3 Commander mod that automatically adds the en_menu and de_menu lines using the power of SH3 Commander - no more manual inserting of lines.

This mod is nothing more than a little repacking of h.sie's original mod and he has kindly given me permission to release it. All the information contained in the mod remains the property of h.sie.

Thank you! But just one question, and about the lines that the Stiebler3_Additional_files_V16B1 adds? Are already in the mod for SH3 comander?
And just a simple question, I have now 6gb of ram memory, should I activate the 4Gb patch when patching the game? I have Xp 32-bits.

[Wreford-Brown]

Thank you! But just one question, and about the lines that the Stiebler3_Additional_files_V16B1 adds? Are already in the mod for SH3 commander?

You'll still have to add Stiebler's lines separately. I'll be working on that one eventually (if I get Stiebler's permission) but need to get used to h.sie's mod myself first. I also have a couple of other mods that I'd like to crack first and have only got 20 days at home between now and Christmas - perks of the job.

[Rhodes]

Thank you Wreford-Brown! :up:

[melnibonian]

Thanks for that WB :up:

Most appreciated as always :yep:

[TheDarkWraith]

I have now 6gb of ram memory, should I activate the 4Gb patch when patching the game? I have Xp 32-bits.

Take 2 to the power of 32 and what do you get? 4GB. That's the max memory a 32 bit processor can address. So even though you have 6GB the processor (and thus OS) can only address 4GB which means 2GB never gets used. If you want to utilize your 6GB then you need a 64 bit processor and OS.

[VONHARRIS]

I have installed active sonar in my IXC.
Using H.sie's V16B1 patch + GWX and other mods.

Now I am getting hydrophones contacts while on surface with bad weather with the diesels running.
The sonar looks active in 11 - 15 m/s winds.

The hydrophone is inactive as it should be.
Any solutions to that problem?

Thank you in advance.

[sublynx]

@VONHARRIS: a quick fix solution for this, while waiting for a more sophisticated answer... If you take your hydrophone man off and leave the space empty while running on surface, do you still get the contacts?

[VONHARRIS]

@VONHARRIS: a quick fix solution for this, while waiting for a more sophisticated answer... If you take your hydrophone man off and leave the space empty while running on surface, do you still get the contacts?

I haven't tried that.

When the patrol ends I will get rid of the active sonar and everything will be back to normal.
I haven't used the sonar anyway.