Some questions I have

[ohadbx]

ok, here goes... I hope this thread will help others as well.
1. I cant figure out how to find the range using TMA. All of the guides I've seen so far dont give a good, deep explaination on this.

2. What is a good RTE value to set for a torpedo compared to the target range?

3. Luftwolf thread got me thinking- if I DO find a mine (in active sonar, or linked a MAD contact)- what to about it?
What is the best to destroy it?

4. Is there a way to draw lines in the tactical screen (F5)?
In the right-click menu I can only draw a circle or a line that's moving with a contact.

5. If someone is pinging me- is there any chance of knowing whether he got a mark on me or not?
I guess this is what the meter is used for- but dont know how excatly to "read" it.
(Same question about the ESM meter on the periscope)

6. When in the Seawolf-I dont seem to be able to assign waypoints to the Harpoons and TASMs, although the manual says it should be possible. Waypoints for the TLAM work fine.
Could this be related to the LW/AMI mod?

Thanks for the helpers

[Tgio]

Originally Posted by ohadbx

ok, here goes... I hope this thread will help others as well.
1. I cant figure out how to find the range using TMA. All of the guides I've seen so far dont give a good, deep explaination on this.

The game manual (5-26) says:
"TMA ruler is used to determine your best guess as to the course and speed of the contact. By adjusting the location and orientation of the ruler to fit the lines of bearing to a selected contact, the speed and course of the contact can be estimated and the suspected range to the contact and its suspected course are entered into the trial solution based on the rulers’ location on the board or plot and its orientation.".

Originally Posted by ohadbx

2. What is a good RTE value to set for a torpedo compared to the target range?

It depends on enemy boat class/speed...The best thing is to get the fish enabled as soon as enemy get it on passive. I often use 3/4 nm from him. Or less if the fish is running deep (not cavitating).

Originally Posted by ohadbx

3. Luftwolf thread got me thinking- if I DO find a mine (in active sonar, or linked a MAD contact)- what to about it?
What is the best to destroy it?

I don't know if it is possible to destroy a mine... best way to deal with an enemy mine is avoid them at max possible distance.

Originally Posted by ohadbx

4. Is there a way to draw lines in the tactical screen (F5)?
In the right-click menu I can only draw a circle or a line that's moving with a contact.

It would be useful... but It isn't alowed . It is possible only when designing mission.

Originally Posted by ohadbx

5. If someone is pinging me- is there any chance of knowing whether he got a mark on me or not?
I guess this is what the meter is used for- but dont know how excatly to "read" it.
(Same question about the ESM meter on the periscope)

I don' know... But If I see one yellow light on on active intercept I begin evasive manouvers IMMIDIATELY.
ESM is different: AFAIK actually sub mast can't be detected from other platforms (SCS, are you here??? ).
But if you are using air/surface platform, yes, they can see you.

Cheers.

[LuftWolf]

6. When in the Seawolf-I dont seem to be able to assign waypoints to the Harpoons and TASMs, although the manual says it should be possible. Waypoints for the TLAM work fine.
Could this be related to the LW/AMI mod?

Nope.

There are no waypoints for any sublaunched anti-ship missile in the game. Nothing we have done did or could change this.

Only the Harpoons launched from the FFG Weapons Control Station are allowed waypoints.

[LuftWolf]

1. I cant figure out how to find the range using TMA. All of the guides I've seen so far dont give a good, deep explaination on this.

There is always a balance between speed and range. If you set the speed of a contact at 15 kts, for the same set of bearing lines, you will get a range that is much farther away than if you set the speed of a contact at 5kts. If you don't have reliable DEMON data, but have a general idea of what the contact is or have been observing its behavior and the signal strength on the sonar, you can make a guess as to the speed of the contact, and lock that in as a heuristic until you can get good speed data. If you can put the estimated speed within 5kts or so of the actual speed, you can get a reasonable range estimation. Your ability to determine speed of the contact without definate DEMON data will improve as your experience and overall situational awareness improve.

2. What is a good RTE value to set for a torpedo compared to the target range?

My goal in setting RTE is to make sure I never overshoot the target, so this depends on the strength of my solution and whether or not I am shooting a wireguided torpedo, an active/passive non-wire guided torpedo or a wakehomer. In the case of a wireguided torpedo, I tend to set the RTE a bit longer, with the idea that I am going to enable the torpedo manually from the firecontrol station after making an aggressive effort to determine contact range AFTER I fire, perhaps using a ping in one-on-one ASW warfare. If I am using a non-wireguided A/P torpedo, I set it to enable with a 90% assurance that it will not overshoot the target, but taking into account that the snaking pattern will slow the closure rate; there is no hard and fast rule, but 3000m before where i believe the target to be is a good estimate, with a greater margin of error for long range shots, meaning an enable point even up to 5000m-7000m before the estimated range of the target. In terms of wakehomers, I tend to enable them as soon as possible, around 1000m-5000m from the launch point depending on the target range, unless I need to fire the torpedo past the wakes of closer surface ships.

3. Luftwolf thread got me thinking- if I DO find a mine (in active sonar, or linked a MAD contact)- what to about it?
What is the best to destroy it?

Don't worry about destroying mines, just avoid them. Unless there are extraordinary circumstances, your stealth against manned ASW assets is far more important.

4. Is there a way to draw lines in the tactical screen (F5)?
In the right-click menu I can only draw a circle or a line that's moving with a contact.

Use a series of marks in a line; as Amizaur calls it, "Poor Man's Bathymetry."

5. If someone is pinging me- is there any chance of knowing whether he got a mark on me or not?
I guess this is what the meter is used for- but dont know how excatly to "read" it.
(Same question about the ESM meter on the periscope)

With the LWAMI Mod, the sensitivity of torpedo active seekers varies considerably, as does the detection ranges of platform active sonars based on acoustic conditions and your submarines speed and aspect relative relative to the sonar array. Your best way to get a feel for this is to create a few basic setups where platforms use their active sonars against you and fire torpedos and then play with the truth on, watching the nav map and the active intercept station.

6 has been answered above.

Hope this helps!

[XabbaRus]

About not beign able to assign waypoints to sub-launched Harpoons is that realistic.

I thought you could in RL.

[LuftWolf]

There are no sublaunched Harpoons on American platforms in real life.

At least not now.

When they were being considered as a submarined launched weapon for the Navy, the ship-launched and submarine launched versions were a bit different from eachother, using different firecontrol circuitry. Now that they are used strictly on foreign nation submarines, who knows what the differences are between the American Navy versions and the foreign navy versions.

So this difference is not entirely implausible.

I've pieced this information together, so perhaps someone who actually knows these as facts can correct me. :hmm:

[Mau]

They used to have Harpoon onboard.
Since about 4 to 5 years they opted more or less to have only Tomahawk and torpedoes onboard.
They still can have Harpoon however.

Before the Harpoons onbord the Subs had no waypoints
I don't know now

Mau

[Amizaur]

Only Tomahawks on board ? But TASMs too or only TLAMs ?? Are there any Anti-Surface missiles used on US submarines at present ?

And second though - I think it could be nice to fire Harpoons/TASMs with the TLAM weapon interface. This way instead of entering the bearing and enable range, you would just set waypoints, with the last being enablepoint. Much faster and more intuitive, and you would have waypoints, you could fly them around obstacles and attack targets from different angles simultaneously :-). But wide/narrow seeker mode and selfdestruct range would be missing then.
Question is, is it possible at all ? Is there a way to assign TLAM type interface for ASu weapons like TASM ? What controls what kind of interface shows for a missile ? Or is it hardcoded in interface ?

[LuftWolf]

Based on my experience with the SLAM-ER, it is hardcoded and there's nothing we can do about it without modifing the interface files or the executable.

[Molon Labe]

Originally Posted by LuftWolf

Based on my experience with the SLAM-ER, it is hardcoded and there's nothing we can do about it without modifing the interface files or the executable.

That reminds me...awhile back you were kicking an idea around the office about changing the SLAM-ER into a Harpoon. Is that something you can/will do?

[LuftWolf]

We can't do that, unfortunately.

It works just like a TLAM, so putting a seeker on it that would be able to track non-stationary targets causes it to malfunction.

That's what the original problem with the SLAM-ER was, it had an IR seeker, that caused a conflict between the waypoint-determined terminal-homing and the seeker-determined terminal homing, making it malfunction.

[LuftWolf]

In the right-click menu I can only draw a circle or a line that's moving with a contact.

Oh, yeah, ohadbx, I forgot to mention, you CAN draw a circle that is anchored in specific place on the NAV Map by using the "Area Circle" command.

[SeaQueen]

Originally Posted by Amizaur

Only Tomahawks on board ? But TASMs too or only TLAMs ?? Are there any Anti-Surface missiles used on US submarines at present ?

Only TLAMs.

And second though - I think it could be nice to fire Harpoons/TASMs with the TLAM weapon interface. This way instead of entering the bearing and enable range, you would just set waypoints, with the last being enablepoint. Much faster and more intuitive, and you would have waypoints, you could fly them around obstacles and attack targets from different angles simultaneously :-). But wide/narrow seeker mode and selfdestruct range would be missing then.

My sense is that the full power of the TASM (or any other anti-ship cruise missiles with enormous ranges) cannot be fully realized without satellite or aircraft targeting information. The only other way for a solution at enormous ranges is with multiple convergence zones, and then there's a great deal of uncertainty involved, so the likelihood of the missile hitting would be most likely be low. Exploiting external targeting information would probably require setting waypoints. The other advantage is that you could use them to make it more difficult to locate your submarine based on bearing information.

For a sub to really take advantage of the Harpoon in the game, with it's 60NM range, you'd need two convergence zones. I'm not really clear that the sim's sonar model supports multiple convergence zones, so the usefulness of antiship missiles is questionable to me. Torpedos have bigger warheads.

[TLAM Strike]

Originally Posted by SeaQueen

so the usefulness of antiship missiles is questionable to me.

They make good final strike weapons for when a fast group of ships is passing out side of your torpedo range. You can probaly launch several Harpoon/TASM attacks before you totaly lose sonar contact.

(Me talking like a kilo commander here )

[SeaQueen]

Originally Posted by TLAM Strike

They make good final strike weapons for when a fast group of ships is passing out side of your torpedo range. You can probaly launch several Harpoon/TASM attacks before you totaly lose sonar contact.

(Me talking like a kilo commander here )

I think antiship missiles are really great for a submarine to have, provided they can get some kind of external targetting information. The big problem with submarines is that they have limited speed. With a longer ranged weapon, speed is less of an issue.